The Reading Room

12:24 AM

@Randal'Thor It took me a while to realize you're talking about mathematics and not your day job as a moderator.

@Randal'Thor I can see "supernatural in literature" being someone's PhD topic :) At least, proposed one. Probably be shut down by the advisor as "too broad"

Rand al'Thor

@DVK-in-Florida I hear you had a pretty popular Meta.SO post about the Developer Story thing.

@DVK-in-Florida Not every PhD topic makes a good SE tag :-)

DVK-in-Florida

@Randal'Thor You mean the one where I didn't get a singe satisfactory answer? "What does this thing do for me?" "Nothing, but here's 5 paragraphs of what it does for other people". Thanks, can I please flag that as VLQ? :)

Rand al'Thor

@DVK-in-Florida I should write an ad for mod-2 arithmetic. "Hate +/- errors? Abolish them forever with this simple trick!"

DVK-in-Florida

@Randal'Thor How so? "Are there people who are experts in THIS THING" is a very valid tag criteria. You don't get to be much more expert than having a PhD thesis in the topic. (well, you do, but YKWIM)

Mick

1

Q: Why did Blake spell "tyger" with a "y"?

In the poem THE TYGER by William Blake: Tyger Tyger, burning bright, In the forests of the night; What immortal hand or eye, Could frame thy fearful symmetry? Why is "Tiger" spelled Tyger, with a y? If it's just a difference in the orthography (or lack of convention) at the time, ...

Rand al'Thor

12:33 AM

@DVK-in-Florida Most PhD topics are probably too niche to be worth a tag on SE. Others would be too long to fit the 25-character limit, or simply wouldn't fit the established tagging system on whatever the relevant SE site would be.

2

@Mick Oooh. I was even planning to ask a question about Blake here.

If I could choose one question so far as an example question for this site, it would be this one. +1, great question. — CHEESE 36 secs ago

Wow, high praise :-o

Napoleon Wilson

@Randal'Thor There have been others already anyway.

Rand al'Thor

Oh, so there has.

Wow, this site is getting so many new questions I can't even keep track of them all!

DVK-in-Florida

12:47 AM

@Randal'Thor Obligatory: lolmythesis.com

Last one is even ontopic :)

> I Just Wanted To Translate Some Stories But My Advisor Didn’t Think That Was Enough So I Dunno Here’s Some Feminist Analysis Or Whatever - *Japanese Studies, Binghamton University*
> “The Necklace,” “Matchbox Life,” “Tiger Mom”: A Translation and Analysis of Three Stories by Atōda Takashi

Rand al'Thor

@Mick Yay, the OP of that question has just made his first post on Lit!

Mick

@Randal'Thor Did you nudge him in the right direction?

kristan

Hm, had to go find my commitment to see what I called myself... apparently I put "beginner or learner". But I don't remember why; I'd think I'd have committed as "Avid Enthusiast or Prosumer". But then, when I got the private beta notification I'd forgotten that there was a Literature Proposal and that I'd followed it, let alone committed. So whatever :-P.

But at least now I have two questions, so I just need to think of some more... (the chances of my being able to answer anything are fairly low).

Rand al'Thor

1:05 AM

@Mick Yep! Remember, just the standard link to the site doesn't work for non-committers, but this link does.

kristan

@Randal'Thor What post is it?

Mick

@Randal'Thor That's cool. I didn't know about it.

Rand al'Thor

2

Q: "The Edge of Doom" and its meaning

In the following stanza Robert Frost's INTO MY OWN: One of my wishes is that those dark trees, So old and firm they scarcely show the breeze, Were not, as ’twere, the merest mask of gloom, But stretched away unto the edge of doom. I am guessing that the "edge of doom" is r...

poetry robert-frost

kristan

@Randal'Thor Thanks

Apparently this person is into poetry :-)

Hamlet

Hey, there has been discussions in meta and in chat where people have said that they don't know enough/want to learn more about literary analysis

Mick

1:08 AM

Signing out. I have research to do. :)

Hamlet

Would it be helpful to make a list of examples of academic papers that are well-written and accessible online?

DVK-in-Florida

@Hamlet Absolutely. Thanks in advance, even for just considering to propose this.

Hamlet

@DVK-in-Florida I could put together a list on my blog, since it would probably be closed if I did this on meta or the main site

DVK-in-Florida

@Hamlet I think Mythology managed to do this, but yeah, likely would be closed on Meta.

Hamlet

But I would like it to be easily editable so people can contribute to it. My blog is on github, would people be comfortable using pull requests?

Benjamin

1:17 AM

@Hamlet This would be great!

@Hamlet Could you give us a link?

Hamlet

OK, I'll put together a list in a few days. I'm going to try to find articles that are (1) available for free online, (2) relatively easy to understand, and (3) come to interesting conclusions.

@Benjamin the link to my blog is in my profile, I'll ping you when I publish the post

Benjamin

@Hamlet Yeah, that sounds great!

@Hamlet Okay.

Would a question about the method of an author be appropriate?

BESW

"Method"?

Benjamin

@BESW The way in which they write.

BESW

One author wrote in bed and threw the pages on the floor for her maid to collect.

[grin] I assume you mean something about their style, word choice, perspective, themes...?

Benjamin

1:31 AM

@BESW The way in which they choose their words. However, hearing about throwing pages at maids seems at least as interesting.

BESW

Edith Wharton not only threw the pages on the floor, she also had to have her Pekinese in bed with her while she wrote.

> I write every paragraph four times - once to get my meaning down, once to put in anything I have left out, once to take out anything that seems unnecessary, and once to make the whole thing sound as if I had only just thought of it. -Margery Allingham

Apparently the fourth time was sometimes helped by reading it aloud to her husband, who would take dictation.

Hamlet

@Benjamin @DVK-in-Florida here you go: taxicrash.github.io/2017/01/24/literary-analysis-examples

Benjamin

@Hamlet Great!

Hamlet

I started you off with some examples of something called "close reading", which is as basic as you can get with literary analysis: no outside sources, just the text you're analysing

I'll edit it tomorrow and add more advanced stuff

Let me know if this is helpful

Benjamin

@Hamlet You should eventually add The Death of The Author. That is to me an enigma of the type, which I only wish I could turn into a code.

Hamlet

1:40 AM

@Benjamin No, I don't think that will actually be helpful for learning how to do literary analysis

at least at this stage

Benjamin

@Hamlet Yes, I meant for your more advanced list.

Hamlet

The paper "The Death of the Author" is about the theory/philosophy behind literary analysis

If you want to understand some of the ideas behind "The Death of the Author", try Borges short story "Pierre Menard, Author of the Quixote", which is freely available and gets at some of the same ideas

and the Borges story is more fun

I have to sign off, let me now if any of those links were helpful @Benjamin

Rand al'Thor

Borges is amazing.

The ideas he comes out with for his stories are just so completely bonkers and brilliant.

Napoleon Wilson

I've only read a single story by him, in order to answer a question on SE.

Benjamin

@Hamlet I think after reading it many times, I am starting to understand. I still couldn't explain it and I still don't understand why, but I do sort of like the notion that a work's meaning is independent of its inception.

Rand al'Thor

1:47 AM

@NapoleonWilson Which one?

Napoleon Wilson

@Randal'Thor The Library of Babel.

Rand al'Thor

@NapoleonWilson That's a fun one, but not the best. If you like, I can go through my collection and recommend some particularly good ones. (Each story is only a few pages long, so they don't take long to read.)

Napoleon Wilson

Well, sure. I can't guarantee I'll heed it, but it'd certainly be appreciated.

Rand al'Thor

OK, I'll check that out tomorrow.

His classification of animals is also worth a chortle:

> 1. those that belong to the Emperor,
2. embalmed ones,
3. those that are trained,
4. suckling pigs,
5. mermaids,
6. fabulous ones,
7. stray dogs,
8. those included in the present classification,
9. those that tremble as if they were mad,
10. innumerable ones,
11. those drawn with a very fine camelhair brush,
12. others,
13. those that have just broken a flower vase,
14. those that from a long way off look like flies.

user61230

@Randal'Thor I love this.

Rand al'Thor

1:55 AM

As in, you're a Borges fan too, or you'd never seen it before and love it?

user61230

Oh, I've seen that before, and love it!

user61230

I'd call myself... a Borges fan in principle. I don't think I've read enough of his work, though.

Rand al'Thor

I'm not actually sure how extensive his work is. I've read one collection (called "Fictions"?), but I don't know how big a proportion that is of his complete works.

Benjamin

Would requests for close reads be on-topic?

Riker

?

Benjamin

2:11 AM

@Riker Close read in the sense of the papers shared above.

Riker

yeah but requests for books to close read or requests to do it or you

*for you

Benjamin

@Riker Like a question asking for a close read and the answer being a close read.

Napoleon Wilson

Sorry, but what's a "close read"?

Benjamin

@Hamlet Thanks for those links they have been great! I look forward to more.

35 mins ago, by Hamlet

@Benjamin @DVK-in-Florida here you go: http://taxicrash.github.io/2017/01/24/literary-analysis-examples/

@NapoleonWilson See the above link.

Riker

@Benjamin that seems like hw problems to me >_>

Benjamin

2:17 AM

@Riker No, but completely real, not homework. I might even post it with an answer.

Napoleon Wilson

@Benjamin So reading and analysing it on your own?

Benjamin

@NapoleonWilson Yes, without external help.

Riker

@Benjamin how will you check whether i'ts hw or not

like, I'm fine with a couple

but I dno't want this site to turn into "do my hw for me"

Benjamin

@Riker Maybe only allow them with answers. I will post an example in the morning. Good night!

Riker

night!

@Benjamin like you mean self-answers?

BESW

3:00 AM

If a question is only allowable when self-answered, there's an unresolved problem that needs resolving.

Hamlet

4:29 AM

@Benjamin the Borges story or "The Death of the Author"? The Borges story is a satire of the idea of analyzing literature according to the author's intentions. Essentially it's describing an author who rewrote the book Don Quixote, such that every word of the new Don Quixote is the same as the original Don Quixote. But the new one was better, according to the reviewer, because its author's intentions were more interesting.

Since you're interested in theory, I'll add some links to youtube videos/simpler explanations of the theory. But I want to emphasize that theory isn't necessary for literary analysis, until you get to a really advanced level.

Hamlet

4:42 AM

@Benjamin I just added some interesting video's about theory to the article. Hope you find them helpful.

taxicrash.github.io/2017/01/24/literary-analysis-examples

Bookworm

5:30 AM

2

Q: Question about [symbolism]

symbolism is so far the most asked tag on the site. Its tag wiki says: For questions concerning symbolic features in a work of literature. A symbol is used in a book to represent another concept. You should use this tag if the questions concerns a symbol. However, I have taken it to be a...

discussion tags

0

Q: Should we have language-specific tags (excluding one for English)?

Before you downvote this, hear me out. What I'm proposing is a system of language-specific tags that will allow users of our site to sort questions by the language the literature being discussed is written in. Since the vast majority of the literature in questions on our site is written in Englis...

discussion tags

0

Q: Is it on topic to ask about events not specifically covered in a book?

I read a book in which there is a short epilogue many years after the events of the main story. I want to know if it is acceptable to ask questions about what happened in the interim. As the book does not discuss those events the answers may be too opinion based. On the other hand sensible con...

discussion scope asking-questions

Mithrandir

8:42 AM

@Randal'Thor thanks, looks good... and happens to be exactly what I was going to do ;)

Mithrandir

9:12 AM

I'm still incredulous that I have the top voted answer on the site. Like, how's that possible?

Mick

@Mithrandir Someone has to have it, and there aren't that many of us. :P

Morning, btw.

Mithrandir

9:47 AM

@Mick morning. O_o

Benjamin

10:33 AM

@Hamlet Okay, I will take a look at them.

@Hamlet Well, I have it printed and am going to read it.

@Riker Yeah, that is the only way to ensure it isn't an HW problem. @BESW Yes, this is problematic, but it is an acceptable interim solution.

BESW

I don't care if something's a homework problem.

If it's a good question, it's good.

If it's flawed, it's flawed. Homework doesn't come into it.

Benjamin

@BESW Okay, but we don't like to allow HW questions, but these are sometimes homework, but don't have to be.

BESW

Who's "we," where's the meta on homework, and since when did close reading become synonymous with homework unless the querent can already do it?

Benjamin

@BESW Stack Exchange as a whole. I guess we don't have to care about it here and that would make things easier.

BESW

I get that the network has recognised homework is a source of bad questions, but I've never been active in any Stack which needed more rules or guidelines than basic quality control to filter them out.

Mithrandir

11:07 AM

People can vote to delete here

michael_timofeev

11:36 AM

hello

Benjamin

@michael_timofeev Hey! So, what are you interested in? I could throw together a question for you to answer.

michael_timofeev

I'm interested in helping

Benjamin

@michael_timofeev What type of literature do you like?

michael_timofeev

Joyce, Homer, Faulkner, classics in general

Benjamin

@michael_timofeev Okay, I can give you some Homer and Faulkner, if I can dig my copies up.

michael_timofeev

11:40 AM

I'm interested in helping in the sense of being a moderator

Benjamin

@michael_timofeev Well, first you are going to have to ask and answer some questions.

@Mithrandir Care to join chat?

michael_timofeev

OK. I have 5000 rep in English Usage, so Ive been around for a while.

Mithrandir

@michael_timofeev:

0

A: I'd like to help

I'm writing this in an FAQ-style answer, addressed to everybody, not just you. There are lots of ways to help! You can help in lots of different ways! 1.) Ask questions. We always need more questions - it's very hard to answer questions if there aren't any! We'd like good, interesting, on-t...

Benjamin

@michael_timofeev I know, but just on the technical side of things, you can't become a public site mod, unless you have 5,000 rep or so.

Mithrandir

@Benjamin not true

Minimum is something like 300.

Benjamin

11:42 AM

@Mithrandir Really?

michael_timofeev

My interest is not in being an expert about literature, but more in helping to settle disputes and in geenral keeping things on track.

Mithrandir

> In the nomination phase, any community member in good standing with more than 300 reputation may nominate themselves to be a community moderator.

michael_timofeev

I do have a degree in English so it's not completely out of my sphere...not as if I went over to the math site and wanted to volunteer.

Benjamin

@Mithrandir Okay, sorry about that, I thought the rep requirement was higher.

literature.stackexchange.com/questions/947/… @BESW

michael_timofeev

anyway, I'm available to help.

:)

Mithrandir

11:53 AM

SOmeone is going through all of my posts...

Benjamin

@Mithrandir I have found that too.

0

Q: What does the rose represent in "A Rose for Emily" by William Faulkner?

In A Rose for Emily by William Faulkner, Faulkner never mentions rose as a noun, only as a past tense verb throughout the work. However, its position as one of two primary words within the title, suggests that the "Rose" has significance of its own. So, what does the rose represent in the title o...

symbolism william-faulkner a-rose-for-emily

@michael_timofeev Here is a Faulkner question for you, if you want to get to 300 rep.

Mithrandir

@Benjamin I'm actually not sure what the requirements are for pro-tem mods; that quote was from a graduated site's election as opposed to a beta site.

Benjamin

@Mithrandir Oh, well then I will write an answer up for it.

Mithrandir

For who? Me? :P

Benjamin

@Mithrandir No, the Faulkner question I asked.

Mithrandir

11:59 AM

@Benjamin Ah, I thought you meant the upcoming meta question asking for niminations for pro-tems.

BESW

Knowledge and Text Production in an Age of Print: China, 900-1400 (freely downloadable PDF book)

Mithrandir

Example:

15

Q: Accepting Nominations — Who should moderate this site?

Ideally Moderators are elected by the community, but until the community is large enough to hold a proper election, we will be appointing three provisional Moderators to fill those roles. We need your help. Please nominate folks you would like to see become provisional moderators for this site. ...

discussion status-completed moderation

Benjamin

@Mithrandir I plan to nominate @Randal'Thor, @Mithrandir, and @Riker. I wish I could be one myself, but I don't think I have the time. How many do we need?

Mithrandir

@Benjamin Wait really you're nominating me? (Usually 3 mods.)

Benjamin

@Mithrandir Well, then I have my three. Yeah, I think as long as you want to do it, you would be a great fit based on the way you have been so far.

Mithrandir

12:02 PM

Thank you :D

And yeah, I agree about @Randal'Thor and @Riker.

Benjamin

@Mithrandir I think @BESW would be good too because he has a different perspective on things, but I will probably nominate way more than three and let the community decide.

Mithrandir

@BESW would you be interested? You'd be a good choice as well, IMO.

So BESW, Rand, Riker, maybe Emrakul...

HDE...

BESW

I'm flattered, but I'm of most use to a Stack community as a vocal, active citizen.

Moderation is a different tenor of thing, and I'm not really suited for it.

Mithrandir

@michael_timofeev Can I really change your question to make it less about you and more about everyone?

This one:

1

Q: How do I help with this site?

I've been wanting a Literature Stack Exchange for a while. I'm mainly on English Language and Usage with 5,000 rep (would have continued to grow, but a current job as an editor keeps me busy.) That said, I'd like to help with the site. How do I help?

support

BESW

Personally I like answering questions like that by saying what I could do. It comes across as a bit less didactic, and more of an offering than a command.

It's mostly just a rhetorical flourish, but I think it's useful to shift my mindset that way.

Mithrandir

12:13 PM

I think The questions asked for ways in which they can help, I'll tell them how. :P

Unfortunately, there's no list of highly-voted answers except for this.

BESW

Looks like a list of high-vote answers to me.

Mithrandir

It's a manual search, not like /questions.

BESW

How about /questions?sort=votes

Mithrandir

Yes. That's questions. Not answers. (I did link that in the answer.)

BESW

Ah, sorry. It's very late and I'm not brain.

Mithrandir

12:17 PM

Go to sleep :P

BESW

Mithrandir

Exactly.

Benjamin

12:37 PM

@Mithrandir Oh man, I can't believe I missed @HDE226868 and @Emrakul. There are just too many good mods

Mithrandir

@Benjamin Heh. Well, Emrak, HDE, and Rand are all already mods, so...

Hey, I have almost a thousand helpful flags network wide...

978 ATM.

Benjamin

Is Shmoop a fine source?

Mithrandir

Shmoop?

Benjamin

@Mithrandir It's a website I keep seeing people reference. I think not, but I want others' opinions.

Mithrandir

Ah. I have no idea; if they have sources, check their sources.

Benjamin

12:51 PM

@Mithrandir They don't though.

Mithrandir

@Benjamin Then they're probably not reliable.

RaisingAgent

Hi

We really called it reading room now?

HDE 226868

@Benjamin For what it's worth, I would not be interested in being a Literature mod, at this point.

@Mithrandir That's in an election. There's no official lower limit for pro-tem mods, although in reality most will have gained a decent amount by the start of public beta by virtue ofparticipation.

Mithrandir

1 hour ago, by Mithrandir

@Benjamin I'm actually not sure what the requirements are for pro-tem mods; that quote was from a graduated site's election as opposed to a beta site.

Benjamin

Okay, well if you become interested, I would nominate you.

HDE 226868

12:59 PM

@Mithrandir Ah, right. Sorry about that.

Rand al'Thor

1:25 PM

@Benjamin I don't think Stack Exchange as a whole has any official policy on homework questions. Some sites welcome them; other sites don't. We can make our own decision.

I hope we aren't going to get overrun by questions like this.

Mithrandir

hey rand

Rand al'Thor

@Benjamin @Mithrandir Nope, for a pro tem mod there's no minimum rep level at all. I've seen a pro tem who didn't even have the association bonus on any site.

@Mithrandir I wouldn't be surprised if they appoint more than 3 pro tems, given the level of activity and meta discussion we're seeing here. It wouldn't be unprecedented; I remember another site which got 4 pro tems right from the start.

Mithrandir

38 mins ago, by HDE 226868

@Mithrandir That's in an election. There's no official lower limit for pro-tem mods, although in reality most will have gained a decent amount by the start of public beta by virtue ofparticipation.

@Randal'Thor I know that there was one, but I can't remember which...

Rand al'Thor

@Mithrandir Ethereum?

Mithrandir

@Randal'Thor ?

Rand al'Thor

1:34 PM

No, apparently not.

@Benjamin From the way things are going, it looks like Literature may care less about canonical sources and more about good reasoning, at least when it comes to critical analysis questions. You might be able to use Shmoop to get some ideas for your own answers, but probably best not to just copy and paste from there. (I haven't checked, but isn't it one of those "help with homework" type sites?)

RaisingAgent

@Randal'Thor they do also help with homework

Rand al'Thor

1:50 PM

What's a "PEE question"?

Mithrandir

@Randal'Thor Point evidence and explanation?

@muru point evidence and explanation giving quotes from the play as your evidence using language techniques like similes and metaphors and structural techniques like building tension — Alaa Mohamed 1 min ago

Definitely homework.

Transcript for