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3:08 PM
1
Q: Shopping questions?

GallifreianShould we allow shopping questions, or questions about finding a particular edition of a book? The question that got me thinking is Looking for dead-tree Jules Verne books with Jules Férat's original engravings and a good translation

 
@Randal'Thor yup, posting a comment
 
@DForck42 Or an answer.
 
Why the downvotes?
 
#NoShppingShit
 
@NapoleonWilson ehh, I'm kinda split on the topic
 
3:15 PM
@Randal'Thor theirs another hunger games question for you
and i just read an article about it so i know the answers in an interview
 
Just like on sci-fi, I still don't understand the logic behind this dislike for shopping questions. If I say that I read a story where an old madman who works in a mine closed part of the mine because he thinks it's his own property, the heros discover that but the madman traps them by closing the exit and they lie there without food or water for a whole week, then that's a fine story-id question and you can tell me where that short story was printed and where I can find it.
 
I think it's the reccomendation part and that we don't want to open that door
 
But if I happen to remember the name of the author and title, then suddenly it's a bad shopping question and you can't tell me in what volume I can read it. This is just crazy.
 
Well, I think circular reasoning like this is detrimental, too, though.
 
IMO they should be on-topic, but that it would probably lead to people begging asking politely for more recommendations being on-topic
 
3:18 PM
> This entirely different category is on-topic, so this one should be too. Because...rhetorics.
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ I understand you don't want vague recommendation questions, like "what are the best books about fictionalized accounts of romance during the first world war", but I'm looking for something much more specific.
 
I understand that
and I do think they should be on-topic
it's just that I'm not sure about problems it will cause in the future
@NapoleonWilson tell that to 50% of the US population
 
@b_jonas post an answer to my meta and we'll brainstorm
 
I don't say there's not some points to be made for shopping recommendations (though, I'd rather avoid them, too). But saying that you can rephrase them into ID questions just doesn't quite cut it.
 
3
Q: Shopping questions?

GallifreianShould we allow shopping questions, or questions about finding a particular edition of a book? The question that got me thinking is Looking for dead-tree Jules Verne books with Jules Férat's original engravings and a good translation

 
3:21 PM
@b_jonas that question isn't a recommendation question though. if you asked "which volume of x has this story in it" it's not the same as "I liked x, recommend me tings"
 
@Randal'Thor mind reviewing tag wiki edits?
 
shopping questions being ontopic open up a bag of worms of questions like, where can i buy the hobbit? imo
 
the biggest difference is that one set of questions have a very clear cut answer, while the others don't
 
@Himarm Oh, that's interesting. I thought I'd read that Suzanne Collins never did any interviews.
 
now we need to know your country, state, location,
 
3:23 PM
@Himarm I'm not specifically asking where I can buy them (though I'd like to know that too of course), I'm asking to identify the right volume that has the story, with eg. date of publication, name of publisher, ISBN number if it has one.
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Argh ... again I wish there was an "Improve Edit" button for those.
 
lol @Randal'Thor you have a badge for starred messages?
 
that doesnt seem to be a shoping question anymore, now your asking which anthology or issue of X has Y
 
@Randal'Thor feel free to approve and then make more changes, I'll review yours
 
@b_jonas on omvies we have this type as on-topic: movies.stackexchange.com/questions/11504/…
 
3:24 PM
@Randal'Thor Yeah, and JKR never gave authographs to her books, and only released Beedle the Bard in seven copies. Sometimes those kinds of things get thrown out the window later, for profit.
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ So do Shog and Napoleon, IIRC.
 
Helmar must be on the way to one too.
 
I want more starz
@Randal'Thor yeah probably
but yeah, if you want to fix them, go ahead
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Approved a few, rejected a few. But it needs someone else to approve before your change goes through so that I can submit mine.
 
3:25 PM
you can either approve or reject mine, idc
@Randal'Thor ah okay
well, that'll be a bit methinks
 
Needs two reviews, either way.
Does anyone else have enough rep for this?
 
until shog and/or robert comes through
 
Who's #3 - Emrakul?
 
@Randal'Thor nope just me and you
emrakul has 717 ye
 
I could actually give them another 15 right away, but I'd rather wait a bit before accepting an answer on that question.
 
3:27 PM
@Randal'Thor did you repcap yesterday?
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Yesterday morning.
 
same with me, I was just wondering
I need 8 more rep for today and them I'm set
 
Wow, you haven't capped today yet?
 
You must have had a lot of accepted answers.
 
3:29 PM
for me the time zone is different though
my 4 in the afternoon is UTC midnight
so you could keep going through the night since you live in UTC
@Randal'Thor yeah
in general I have more less voted answers then you, according to the beta stat page
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ ?
More answers but fewer votes?
 
I'm more "active" then you and the answer count is higher
@Randal'Thor I have 26 answers, you only have 16, therefore you must have higher voted answers than me
if this logic is bad idk it's 7:30 am for me
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Well, not necessarily. We could have the same number of votes but you've gone further over the repcap than I have.
 
Anyway, who cares. Let's just focus on providing good content, eh? :-)
 
3:34 PM
ye
also pls tell me it's legal to make your own island and name it here
Dogger Bank (Dutch: Doggersbank, German: Doggerbank, Danish: Dogger banke) is a large sandbank in a shallow area of the North Sea about 100 kilometres (62 mi) off the east coast of England. During the last ice age the bank was part of a large landmass connecting Europe and the British Isles, now known as Doggerland. It has long been known by fishermen to be a productive fishing bank; it was named after the doggers, Old Dutch fishing boats especially used for catching cod. At the beginning of the 21st century the area was identified as a potential site for a UK round 3 wind farm, being developed...
i need doge island to be a thing
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ I don't know anything about US law.
 
@Randal'Thor off the UK
@Gallifreian we have a new meta post feed fwiw
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ We should have. It's slow.
 
it's always slow no matter the site
 
My bad
@Randal'Thor You named it worm, for books' sake!
 
3:37 PM
What's the satus of Sealand nowadays?
 
@NapoleonWilson The guy died a few years back
 
@Helmar So does it still exist and sell server space for qustionable content?
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ lol
 
it needs to be a thing ok
 
3:40 PM
@NapoleonWilson No, that's been dead even longer iirc
Might even be ten years by now
 
@Randal'Thor hey can you review the meta suggested edits? there's a couple tag edits by gallifreian and somebody else
 
@Gallifreian I didn't, Ankit did. But good one ;-)
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ I'll downvote every last post of yours for misspelling my name
 
@Himarm Yes, now we have a single meta question interpreted in two different ways.
 
3:42 PM
@Gallifreian 1. it'll get reversed ;p and 2. you get a week suspension (somebody on PPCG just got one for that same exact thing, mispelling his name)
 
I'll post an answer to the meta about why I think the kind of question I asked should be on topic.
 
and 2 eh it's the same sound so
 
@b_jonas please do
 
Great, now there's another meta question.
What do.
 
@Gallifreian You misspelled your own name - it should be Gallifreyan :-P
 
3:44 PM
rekt
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ duh, we live a long time
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ There's a brown "2" showing up in the corner, but when I click on it I get nothing.
 
hm, 2 were yours so of course you can't review them but I just reviewed 7 in a row
 
If I downvote a post every 3 days or so, no one will notice.
 
@Gallifreian lol
 
3:45 PM
@Randal'Thor I didn't know that back then
 
you can change your name you know right
 
My Protonmail username is gallifreyan though
 
ah okay
 
@EasterlyIrk I got used to it, an this way I get to accuse people of misspelling it. Win/Win
 
ah ok lol
in light of remembering the fact you can change your name, I'm changing mine back to the original (my name irl)
 
3:46 PM
@Gallifreian If your profile doesn't have a link to the clip from Voyage of the Damned, I'll be disappointed.
 
@Randal'Thor chat proflie refreshify?
checks rep I have gained 199 from votes. Okay then
 
@EasterlyIrk Done ... did anything change?
 
yes
wait no -.- didn't update yet apparently
I lost my small caps but it should be "Riker"
thanks though
 
@EasterlyIrk Of the USS Enterprise NCC-1701-D?
 
nope, it's my name actully
german form of Richard
 
3:51 PM
Uhuh.
 
What about Rickard (as in Strauss)?
Oh, wait, that's spelled with an H too.
 
Yeah, I thought the German form of Richard was Richard. ;-)
 
Well, you should know :-)
 
<shrug> all I know is that my name is riker and that the german side of my family told me it's german
 
I've never heard of Riker ever. But maybe it's supposed to be old Germanic.
 
3:53 PM
no clue
thought TBF star trek had to get it from somewhere
 
@EasterlyIrk You sure they're German?
 
x-files theme plays
 
Riker ist der Familienname folgender Personen: Albert Joyce Riker (1894–1982), US-amerikanischer Pflanzenpathologe Andrew L. Riker (1868–1930), US-amerikanischer Unternehmer, Ingenieur, Automobil- und Elektrofahrzeugpionier Josh Riker-Fox (* 1983), kanadischer Fünfkämpfer Robin Riker (* 1952), US-amerikanische Schauspielerin Samuel Riker (1743–1823), US-amerikanischer Politiker und Offizier in der Kontinentalarmee William Harrison Riker (1920–1993), US-amerikanischer Politikwissenschaftler Riker ist der Name folgender fiktiven Figuren: William Thomas Riker, siehe Figuren im Star-Trek-Universum…
 
Great. After two meta questions, I'd still like to hear good reasons for closing that actually apply to the question I asked.
 
> Given Name RYKER. GENDER: Masculine. USAGE: English (Modern) PRONOUNCED: RIE-kər [key] Possibly a variant of the German surname Riker, a derivative of Low German rike "rich".
I spell it with an I not a Y but same thing
 
3:55 PM
Oh, so a surname then.
 
@Helmar it's my middle name but I guess that applies
it's probably one of those double last names, I have no clue why I'm named as such
 
I assume Familienname = surname?
translate: Riker ist der Familienname folgender Personen
(from German) Riker is the surname of a family
 
well then
 
@Randal'Thor yes
But the people there are only Americans and Canadians and well fictional
 
@Randal'Thor tbf that does use bing translate so you can't trust it
 
3:59 PM
@EasterlyIrk I trust nothing.
 
well then
thanks mr depressing
 
is it weird that I have a schedule for consuming my coffee?
 
nah
 
@DForck42 No.
 
@NapoleonWilson :-D
 
4:01 PM
(Or so I hope.)
 
And so I updated my username
 
I mean, if it's "wait until 11 pm at night to drink it" it may be a tad weird
@Gallifreian welcome to the club of waiting-for-chat-to-update
 
@Gallifreyan Good Time Lord.
 
@b_jonas I don't get your 2002 comment
 
@Riker It worked this time.
 
4:03 PM
@Randal'Thor I was typing that as you refreshed my profile ;p
 
@Riker yeah, this sucks
 
lol we both had it fixed before you said that
 
Well crap
 
@Helmar Around 2002 is when electronic typography got very cheaply available to everyone. Starting from about that date, everyone's been publishing books with low number of copies, since anyone can type at a computer and print some crap. There are homeless people selling newspapers they edit, for charity causes.
 
Now I'm the slow one
 
4:04 PM
it's already fixed
for me at least
it was before mine was fixed
 
The exact year is not certain, you could say it's starting from 2000, but 2002 is my best guess.
 
 
@b_jonas The Martian started that way
The German translation is great according to a friend
So I don't see your point regarding the original publishing and the translation
 
Speaking of slow, this good-for-nothing meta bot of yours still hasn't published my latest question
2
Q: Should questions asking for the availability of a translation be on-topic?

GallifreyanCertain shopping questions might not be about shopping at all. For instance, questions asking whether a particular work has ever been translated to a particular language. One example is this question on Mythology SE. One other example is hypothetical question asking about the Witcher series be...

There's quite a battle in comments, feel free to participate
 
@NapoleonWilson old german = low german?
 
4:06 PM
And it's worse with public domain books. For those, you don't even have to be able to write anything. So people were scanning old encyclopedias and dictionaries, as well as the writings of Jókai and Verne, OCRing them, barely correcting the errors, and publishing crap versions of them.
 
@Gallifreyan now I really want to comment "I'm here for the battle!"
 
@Riker I don't know. Probably not. But I was talking about Germanic anyway, which isn't necessarily German.
 
ah okay
I don't know much german or really much about linguistics at all
 
> hypothetical question asking about the Witcher series being translated to English (hint: they're not).
@Gallifreyan Wut?
I've been reading them in English.
 
Sure, but that doesn't mean in any way that afterwards no good translations can be created.
 
4:07 PM
They found names to write on the cover that sound good, like "Akadémiai", and parents of the children bought the dictionary thinking it's the good one from MTA. Apparently "akadémia" is vague enough that it's not trademarkable, or maybe those publishers just disappeared quickly before anyone could sue them.
 
@Randal'Thor Lady of the Lake too? Official translation?
 
@Randal'Thor Cue x-files theme
 
@Riker "Low German" would rather be the dialects they speak in the northern parts, still today, and which are much more similar to English and Dutch, I guess.
 
It's really dishonest. And people have been doing that with old out of copyright translations of Jules Verne too. Jules Verne got popular so quickly, that many of the translations too are out of copyright now.
 
@NapoleonWilson ah, that makes sense
 
4:08 PM
So I'm sour and hate most new books.
 
google translate recognizes my last name as dutch fwiw
15 mins ago, by Easterly Irk
x-files theme plays
gotta have those italics
 
@Gallifreyan No, they're lagging quite behind, I think. They might be at book 3 of the novel series now, or something like that.
 
(Dubbing films and TV shows also got much cheaper, because of other technological advances, and so most of the modern dubbings are low quality too.)
 
@b_jonas That's just wrong
Or at least not globally true
 
There could be some good modern editions, but it's just unlikely.
 
4:10 PM
I'm afraid that your experience has no correlation to the release date of the original work
 
@NapoleonWilson My point exactly. Wiki says Lady of the Lake is due the middle of March this year
 
@Helmar Sure, maybe not globally. I am probably biased, but I have the guess that translations to English had been bad quality even before that.
 
Fan translations are available, of course.
 
And myself living in a highly powerful market I can say that we do get mostly high-quality translations
Even though I read the original when my language skills allow
 
@Helmar Even of the public domain works like Verne?
 
4:12 PM
@b_jonas There was no need, they've been translated high quality ages ago
 
Errr... Got me wondering though: I recently recommended to order Lady of the Lake for my uni's library. And they did.
 
There's a good reason I mention those abridged edition of Verne stuff. They tripped me up when I was young and gave me a bad experience.
 
Question: what did they order if the book isn't our yet?!
 
@Helmar Sure they were. That's what I said in my question too. Those books have been translated, I just can't find the right edition.
 
@b_jonas Around the World in Eighty Days appeared the same year in German
 
4:13 PM
(Well, if 1983 counts as ages ago.)
 
@NapoleonWilson Well, that's a shame.
Still, I have time to catch up with the existing translated-to-English works.
 
Indeed.
 
@Helmar Same year as what?
 
@NapoleonWilson What language did you read them in, btw? Have they all been translated to German?
 
@b_jonas the French original
 
4:14 PM
@Randal'Thor Yes, ages ago. We appreciate Sapkowski. ;-P
 
@Helmar And Michel Strogoff has been translated to Hungarian 13 years after it was published, but that's immaterial, because those very old translations also suck, for an entirely different reason.
 
starts learning German :-P
 
The reason is that people back then didn't know how to translate books properly, until the Nyugat age when Babits and the other geniuses figured it out,
and then they re-translated many classical works.
 
@Randal'Thor Start with kindergarten & rucksack :)
 
(The smaller part of the problem is that the language also changes, so the old translations sound dated.)
 
4:17 PM
@Helmar I already know some German words.
Thanks to Napoleon, among others.
 
:D
Step 2 is reading Der satanarchäolügenialkohöllische Wunschpunsch
 
@Randal'Thor sprechen sie deutsch?
it's been so long since I took german in highschool...
 
@DForck42 Nein.
 
@b_jonas There can be discussion if a dated translation isn't a truer one because it is closer to the original. Even if that makes Dracula the most boring book you can read today.
Spoiler: The original makes one yawn a lot too
 
@Helmar Perhaps, but not in that case. Babits and his contemporaries have figured out how to make translations that are both truer to the original and better to read than before.
It's magic.
7 mins ago, by b_jonas
@Helmar And Michel Strogoff has been translated to Hungarian 13 years after it was published, but that's immaterial, because those very old translations also suck, for an entirely different reason.
^ Possibly even before that, that's just the date we know about.
 
4:24 PM
So what are you saying, those good translations aren't possible anymore? They are less likely to be that good?
 
@b_jonas basically what I'm getting from the argument is that translations is a very complicated subject matter and that there might not ever be a one good answer to a "shopping" question about translations
 
@DForck42 Sure, but does that really apply to my question? I think I made specific enough criteria.
 
@doppelgreener did you see my answer to your question?
 
Why vote to close questions on meta? This and this
 
i.redd.it/9cq886pvmvay.jpg - this will blow your minds
 
4:32 PM
@Gallifreyan Dunno.
Related reading:
6
Q: Should we ever close a question as "Primarily Opinion Based" on meta?

SQBWhat are the "must read" comics/issues from the following publishers? received a close vote with the reason "Primarily Opinion Based". But on meta, we're asking for opinions. Shouldn't that close reason be removed from meta? I want to stress the point that that question isn't just asking for ...

 
@NapoleonWilson - you can feel better. Crappy ID posts are no longer the bane of only M&TV. I present you: Let's make Politics.SE version of ID game
 
@Gallifreyan Because of exactly what shog pinned there
It's the explicit opinion of the SE team that discussing stuff that's not a problem hurts sites
 
@DVK-in-Florida Yeah well, if it's from TV, they can just migrate. (Yeah...no, don't, I'm joking.) ;-)
 
Let's not force rule discussions about in vacuum
 
@Himarm very nice dp helmet
 
4:34 PM
@b_jonas so, lets work through this. the very first issue with this question in particular is that it's asking for translations for three separate books. this should be broken down into three different questions, one for each book. the next issue is the subjectiveness of "acceptable translation". there's no way to codify that. how do we qualify "good translation" without it being opinion based?
 
@Helmar vacuum generally has 1 c only
 
dp as an acronym typically reminds me of a sexual act, maybe spell out daft punk :P
 
huh? cough
 
@Helmar where?
 
@Helmar On the bright side, every one of these rules discussions about questions that don't exist yet could encourage someone to actually post a question of that type, and every new question helps the site expand.
 
4:36 PM
top 2/3 on the star board
 
20 hours ago, by Helmar
"There's no need to force "rules discussions" where there is no actual problem. Folks are more than willing to point out problems where they show up in actual practice, so tackle the problems when/if they become prominent in actual use" - from said answer
 
@Randal'Thor I prefer it the other way round
Ask an example question
Then start the meta discussion
 
@Helmar Sure.
I'm just trying to make the best of the existing situation :-)
 
@b_jonas the question is also very meandering without a good conclusion of what you're specifically looking for with these questions.
 
4:38 PM
@NapoleonWilson Oh, good one, you had me going there for a second.
 
@Randal'Thor :)
 
@b_jonas your answer also has several issues. it's not a canonical answer, it doesn't actually fix your problems, and instead just makes everything muddier, and it highlights what's ultimately wrong with shopping/recommendation questions, there might not ever be one true answer that will satisfy the asker
 
@DForck42 Now that's a better argument. See meta.literature.stackexchange.com/a/210/139 : "it's really inconvenient to read Michel Strogoff by flipping through two volumes at the same time, one for the text and one for the illustration" so I want a single volume with both the best translation and the best illustration. That's what I want from an answre.
 
I'm really curious why people downvoted my question though.
 
@DForck42 Sure, it's a partial answer, not a canonical one. That's why I didn't accept it. I have to point out false paths though, that is, volumes that don't work, because that can make it easier for others to answer.
 
4:42 PM
@b_jonas if you already know that, then shouldn't it be part of the question?
helping DEFINE the question?
 
@Gallifreyan Which one?
 
@Gallifreyan Probably because it's unclear what the question is, so the first two answers to it answer different questions.
@DForck42 Probably no. When I put a partial answer to a question, people complain that I should make it an answer instead, rather than putting it into the question.
 
@b_jonas that honestly sounds more like a misunderstanding of how SE is supposed to work
 
@DForck42 It doesn't really define the question. It's information of the sort that would help even if someone else had found out about it and posted it to an answer.
 
I wouldn't post a question on SO, then post n answer of what I've tried that didnt' work
 
4:45 PM
@Riker I did just earlier -- I am concerned that it answers a slightly different question to what I asked, because one story being inspired by another is different to that story mirroring the other. For example, the movie O Brother, Where Art Thou? is essentially the story of Homer's The Odyssey, told in a wildly different setting. (There's even the cyclops represented by a man with an eyepatch.)
 
That I checked the book by Holnap kiadó and found that it doesn't have illustrations doesn't shape the question. I already said I need illustrations, in the question.
 
1
Q: Shopping questions?

GallifreyanShould we allow shopping questions, or questions about finding a particular edition of a book? The question that got me thinking is Looking for dead-tree Jules Verne books with Jules Férat's original engravings and a good translation

 
However in the last quote you provide, Dan Simmons makes it clear he lifted themes from John Keats' poems.
 
@Gallifreyan Ah. I've upvoted the question but abstained on the answers so far.
 
@DForck42 Can anyone else help about this part? Should I have put those false paths to the question instead?
 
4:47 PM
@b_jonas people are picky these days
 
I can still move some info to the question if you really think it's better, but I don't think it is.
 
@b_jonas well, we're getting sidetracked from what I think is the bigger issue. how do we define "good/acceptable" translations?
 
@DForck42 That's not the main point for my question. I tell what I don't want: abridged versions and old translations. I even identify the old translations for each of those books. If you find a volume that isn't abridged (has about the right size, not half the thickness like the abridged versions have) and isn't one of those old translations, then it's an answer to my question. It's possible but unlikely that it will turn out to be a volume I don't like, but that's my problem.
If such a volume exists, it's way more likely that I'm not happy simply because I can't acquire a copy. A bad translation is unlikely.
Or I might be unhappy beacuse it's one of those cheap paperbacks that fall apart the moment I open it. That's also unlikely, because it's typically the modern unillustrated abridged junk they publish that way, but it's possible.
The point is, I gave a specific enough question I think.
 
@b_jonas see, with the wording of your question, that's pretty hard to discern as per one of my previous comments in chat
 
@DForck42 Ok, than maybe I have to improve the wording. I can work with that.
 
4:53 PM
@b_jonas yes
@b_jonas and btw, I don't know if it's obvious or not, but I'm trying to be helpful, not an a-hole. I think there could be merit in these questions, but this one needs some work to show as a good example
 
@DForck42 I know, I'm just annoyed by all those comments and answers on meta that don't actually seem to apply to my question, but to hypothetical worse questions.
 
@b_jonas yeah. let's work on cleaning yours up
and I still think it should really be 3 questions, one for each book translation
 
@doppelgreener ah, makes sense
I'll try to revise it if I can
 
@DForck42 That's also possible, but if I post three almost identical questions, people will complain again about the repetition.
 
@b_jonas they're similer, but not copies of each other
 
4:57 PM
@DForck42 Maybe, but people will have to read the same parts three times.
 
because each book will have a distinctive answer or answers that don't apply to the others
@b_jonas shrugs space them out?
 
@DForck42 That's true, but you look for those answers in the same place.
 
@b_jonas meh
 
@user14111 - I think so. I was tempted to suggest to split it up into 74 individual questions, but then someone would post that i'm a rep-grabbing jerk, so i figured I'm not gonna subject myself to that just to make sure a question follows the site's literal rules. — DVK-in-Florida Jan 7 '16 at 15:20
 
@b_jonas Tbh, I haven't even read your question and answer.
 
4:59 PM
Anyway, I can split them if you all on the site think that's better.
 
@Riker i think it's a less direct implementation of keats' poetry that's found in hyperion and endymion, for the record -- but yeah. i might research this independently as well and see if there's parallels in the work.
 
It's just so long.
Which is why I've abstained from this whole issue.
 
@Randal'Thor It has to be long. I've done research. If I post a short one, people will tell me to just google my own homework.
 
@Gallifreyan Because it's not a proper question in the title for starters probably
 
Also, now you say that the question is too long because it contains the details, whereas DFrock42 above says that it should be longer because I should put the false paths in the question.
 
5:00 PM
Are shopping questions on topic? Would not have killed you
 
@Helmar As well as leaving a comment after a downvote
 
@Gallifreyan I truly suspect there are people out there who fear that the combination of downvote and comment will indeed kill them.
 
@Helmar So the evidence suggests
 
@b_jonas It needs some tightening up to say the least (I said something before about it meandering)
 
@Gallifreyan I did leave a comment saying why I think the questio nis confusing.
 
5:14 PM
So... if operas and plays and music are all on topic, what makes movies not?
2
 
Music is on-topic?
 
@Catija dun dun dunnnnn
 
@Catija Realizations like that prove we shouldn't declare stuff on-topic or off-topic without actual questions
That's why I voted to close that fiction/nonfiction question
Apparently I'm the only one with recent private beta experience though and everyone voted to keep those questions open
 
@Catija a movie novelization is on topic, but the movie itself isn't. although some argument for the movie script would be made...
however, I think you'll find a lot better knowledge about the movie/script on movies.se than here
as @NapoleonWilson said to me, when people look at "literate.stackexchange.com" they're not going to think "movies!"
just like they're not going to think "video games!"
 
@Catija Apparently nothing, according to some people.
2
 
5:29 PM
Someone apparently downvoted Robert
Guess our days are counted :D
 
@doppelgreener hm, okay
 
@Helmar where?
 
Idk, but he's down to 99 rep
Forget it, he probably down voted
 
@Helmar lol
 
@Helmar the CMs are treating this very differently than A&C's Beta... Anything Robert thought was even remotely off topic was closed. He unanimously decided that art history was off topic and the site would only be for practical application of arts and crafts.
 
5:34 PM
@Catija heh
 
A&C?
 
maybe he'll come through in a day or two and shut down a bunch of questions
 
Ah got it
 
@Helmar arts and crafts se
 
When someone says "literature", I think books... Songs and movies aren't books.
 
5:36 PM
He didn't shut down anything content-wise on IoT only plain shitty stuff I think
He closed quite a few meta things for too early, too broad, not useful, et cetera
 
@Helmar Gheez, I guess one or the other user here has been in a private beta, too, before.
 
@NapoleonWilson Well people who have stated in chat otherwise voted to leave those open
 
@Catija "unanimously"? doesn't that require more than one person?
or is robert a hive mind like shog
 
It's their prerogative
 
we've got 155 open questions and 15 closed, ~9% close rate
 
5:38 PM
@Riker Robert is the primary God for betas ;)
 
ah okay
 
@NapoleonWilson I've been in 2 private betas before, just beena couple of years
 
so he's part of shog's hivemind
 
@Riker I prefer to use it the way Hyacinth on Keeping Up Appearances did.
 
lol
 
5:40 PM
unilaterally ;)
 
Yes, yes. I know. I was just commenting on someone's use of unilateral the other day.
 

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