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4:00 AM
@Randal'Thor I just aksed a question for you, though.
@NapoleonWilson Crap, I just saw that.
@Randal'Thor night!
@Randal'Thor related: mith's struggles with bed
TIL mod names don't appear blue in the transcript
It also can't hurt to have more questions about actual literature than just borderline questions to make meta-points. ;-)
Whohohoa, well that answer looked good. Gheez, what's with those votes.
You mean the one that takes "Philosophy of Composition" seriously?
I assume the votes are from people who know how fraught and contentious the context of the essay is.
Well, I know zero about Poe, but I would have taken it seriously, being written by him and all.
4:12 AM
I know one of them is, anyway. I'll reverse it if the answer gets improved to put Philosophy of Composition in a less gospel-y light.
Nah. Poe wrote it in response to accusations of having plagiarised heavily when writing The Raven, and many folks think he's just making stuff up after the fact to defend himself against a pretty cogent accusation.
So at the very least it's suspect enough to not stand as the only support for an answer.
A lot of authors spout utter hokum about their process and intents.
It's great to use them in answers, but depending on the author and the context I'd hesitate to take them at face value as sufficient for a quality answer claiming absolute truth.
Of course, it's very different if the question is "Did Poe claim that Lenore is dead?"
The answer there would be "Yes, he did," with hopefully a PS of "But he may have been blowing smoke."
Compare Robert Frost, who when asked about the meaning of Stopping By Woods on a Snowy Evening said, "It's about stopping by woods on a snowy evening." It's very very obviously not just about that from reading the text, and he's said very different things about it elsewhere. That particular querent was just ticking him off.
@Randal'Thor "Poe admitted freely that his “Philosophy of Composition,” published in Graham’s Magazine for April 1846, was not expected to be taken as literal truth, but it is a dramatized account of the actual writing of the earliest published version." eapoe.org/Works/mabbott/tom1p084.htm
Also he's been accused of plagiarising it from at least four different poets.
4:30 AM
@NapoleonWilson what answer?
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ This one got to -2 before edits turned it around.
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ One about Edgar Allen Poe.
huh, okay
@NapoleonWilson the one BESW linked?
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Well, yes.
@BESW also, what's with your name? does it stand for seomthing?
4:31 AM
It's my initials.
ah okay
heyyy it's almost mine
BERW for me
Fair enough.
@BESW Agreed. I don't know a lot about Poe. My sister is a Poe scholar and expert. I do know that the Philosophy of Composition thing is questionable just based on what I have heard from her. But, I'm not the expert at all.
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ o_O I thought it was R_W
@steelersquirrel I'm writing up a question she'll love, then.
4:37 AM
(_ == unknown)
@BESW Well...I'm telling her about the question we were just talking about. You guys will have her on here all night, then ;)
I'm gonna ask if Poe plagiarised The Raven.
He's been accused of lifting significant elements from many people including Elizabeth Barrett, Charles Dickens, Leo Penzoni, and Thomas Holley Chivers.
@DJMcMayhem nope my first name is benjamin
I go by Riker, middle name
4:40 AM
Huh. Til
But I'm not up on the scholarship and don't know if anything's been found that's anywhere close to definitive.
@BESW Oh my! This should be interesting ;)
I kinda want to make a tag for it.
<preparing for thermal meltdown at sister's house later tonight> :P
The tag could definitely see a lot of use.
4:42 AM
I don't know what a catty poet is.
A poet that writes about cats. Duh.
Oh, makes sense, I would have thought a cat that writes poetry, but well.
catty, adjective. Spiteful, petty, deliberately hurtful, often in subtle or indirectly insulting ways.
Uhm...Dr. Seuss. Hello! :P
@BESW That sounds awfully colloquial for a tag then.
4:42 AM
That's me. :P
Q: Did Poe plagiarise "The Raven"?

BESWI've read that Poe's been accused of lifting significant elements from Elizabeth Barrett, Charles Dickens, Leo Penzoni, and Thomas Holley Chivers. Since Poe himself was famous for accusing more successful poets of plagiarism, I'm inclined to think some of this is just tit for tat. Still, I'd like...

Oh my.
@steelersquirrel So, like Akif Pirinçci?
@NapoleonWilson I have zero clue who that is.
@steelersquirrel I'd ask about how he died, but I don't want to cause an embolism.
4:45 AM
@steelersquirrel He wrote the novel that one of my favourite animated films is based on.
Actually, hm. It might be good to test if "authors' lives" is a subject the Stack wants to encompass.
@BESW Hehehe! Nah. She's just extremely passionate about Poe. Her daughter is named after the character in "The Raven"
@steelersquirrel It must be hard going through school called "Narrator."
@BESW Yeah...she gets made fun of a lot ;)
@NapoleonWilson Oh, really? I haven't even heard of that :(
@steelersquirrel Well, it's from Germany. But apparently the film has an English dub (with even Cary Elwes on it).
4:50 AM
@NapoleonWilson Is it the same title in English?
Anyway, what I've seen from interviews it seems he's quite a moron. I just brought him up because it's the only poet/writer I could think of who actually writes about cats.
@steelersquirrel I think so.
There's always Andrew Lloyd Webber.
Haven't you heard of Dr. Seuss? The Cat in the Hat?
@BESW Heh!
...and Lloyd Alexander, for that matter.
4:51 AM
(Well, which brings us into the musical meta discussion.) :'(
Tad Williams. Richard Bellingham.
Brian Jacques, on occasion.
@steelersquirrel Oh, well, I've heard of that book through various engagements with American culture. But that guy is not an actual thing here.
I always mix him up with that other guy, who writes those rather dark and cynic kids things.
The fat cat sat on the mat while wearing a hat and watching a bat.
Written by Steelersquirrel!
There ya go. Now you know another "cat" poet :P
@steelersquirrel Which is super fitting, since you love your "...at" sounds. I can totally imagine you reciting that!
Please, please. Hold your applause. I know that I just wrote a masterpiece. I will be giving out autographs and locks of my hair later ;)
4:56 AM
> Under a moon like a robin's egg
And over a walk of wood,
I found in a tiny tract of trees
An exiled god there dwelling
On mice and sparrows and remembered dreams:
Living not great in might, but rich in dignity.
@NapoleonWilson Haha! Really? I never noticed that I loved "at" sounds so much ;)
[invents quote-id]
Gheez. Well, that shot my fat cat down all to hell :P
@steelersquirrel At least they sound expressive from you.
4:58 AM
@BESW [aggressively google-fu]
@NapoleonWilson Hehe! Well, I will remember to have an array of "at" sounding words at my disposal ;)
@Emrakul Enjoy wading through all the times I've said it on various Stack chats.
@steelersquirrel Don't worry, I'll keep you in mind as the better p...cat poet.
@BESW "BESW must have said this. Google agrees."
@Emrakul I expect the answer will say "You've woefully mis-remembered another line, probably [line] from [biography]."
5:02 AM
@NapoleonWilson Hehehehe! Yesssssss!!!!!
Great. Now I have that stupid Tom Jones song in my head :P
Anyway, didn't they even make an awful film with Mike Myers from that Dr. Seuss thingy?
@NapoleonWilson Yes...and Alec Baldwin. It was awful.
I think they did Horton Hears a Who, too.
Hey...I just rhymed again! I'm a total poet!!! ;)
@steelersquirrel Told'ya so!
So what's actually from him and what's from that other more dark guy with the weirder name?
Who wrote The Lorax?
@NapoleonWilson The Grinch?
I believe Seuss wrote the Lorax also...but, I'm not sure.
@steelersquirrel I don't know, is it?
So who wrote that Cholocate Factory thing?
5:14 AM
@NapoleonWilson Yes. The Grinch is darker, but his heart grows 3 sizes before the end of the story! ;)
@NapoleonWilson Dahl
Roald (sp)?
Hah! Yeah, that was it.
Of course! Need you question my awesomeness on knowing authors! ;)
Well, I probably seriously have to go to bed now, though.
Okay :'(
@steelersquirrel Awww, don't worry.
5:25 AM
Hopefully you will have an answer from my sister to your question when you wake up...we will see. I don't know. Ugh. ;)
That would be awesome, if she isn't too busy with other stuff.
Uhuh :P
Good night!! :)
Good night!
5:56 AM
Interestingly, 52/158 questions have no answer.
Why so many rooms now
Anyone mind if I change the room name? The Reading Room has 26 upvotes, and The Book Club has 20 on meta.
Sounds good to me. Book Club's a duplicate anyway, right?
The Library was a duplicate, but Rand deleted that option.
Ah, right.
6:03 AM
Also, if the votes change, we can always rename the room again. It only costs a dollar.
room topic changed to The Reading Room: Welcome to chat for literature.stackexchange.com! -- Read any good books lately? (no tags)
@Emrakul Library also had less votes too
@Emrakul Hasn't the post only been up for a few days? Don't you guys wait a little longer?
@AnkitSharma I think that there is a room specifically meme free due to the recent kerfuffle earlier today ;)
6:37 AM
If it bothers people, I'd be happy to change it back.
It doesn't bother me...I was just curious on how long you guys usually waited to do that :)
Oh! I just waited until people had pretty much stopped voting, and it looked pretty much decided.
Ahhhh...gotcha :)
7:11 AM
@steelersquirrel k
@steelersquirrel no need if community conscious is clear. It can even change in future if really needed
@steelersquirrel no hard and fast rule
Finally, it's The Reading Room.
1 hour later…
8:34 AM
hi all
8:49 AM
9:21 AM
Mornin' as per UGT :-)
Good morning!
9:37 AM
20 hours ago, by JNat
Guys, is there a good translator from french here
I will need some help, I'm preparing an answer
Google Translator. :P
@AJ you think?
9:46 AM
sorry just kidding
I don't speak French, unfortunately, but I'd be happy to help proofread.
the answer is posted
10:04 AM
@BESW Oooh. I like that.
@TRiG [bow and a flourish] It's a little lurid for my current tastes, but most of my writing comes out purple and has to get beaten back with a stick, and that takes time.
Also hi.
O_o I just checked, and 7 out of twelve of my questions have been downvoted, and all six of my answers...
(Actually, the first version of that poem was about nine stanzas in order to get a single usable concept.)
Either someone doesn't like me, or my stuff is worse than I thought.
10:08 AM
Interesting way to discover that the Literature site is reopening. Someone moved one of my chat comments from elsewhere to the Trash room, which sent me a notification, and when I went there I saw another comment moved there from here, and thus discovered the existence of this room, tied to a site in Private Beta.
Shall try to think of a question to ask when ye come out.
@BESW Wait, you wrote that?
@Emrakul Yes.
@Hamlet I'd be more likely to ask something about just how wrong is it to put a lava monster in a film about Polynesian lore.
Oh! I like that!
@Emrakul Wait, like which? The poem or the mythology question?
The poem.
10:15 AM
10:43 AM
A: How to read é, ä, û?

Mithrandir For vowels the letters i, e, a, o, u are used, and (in Sindarin only) y. As far as can be determined the sounds represented by these letters (other than y) were of normal kind, though doubtless many local varieties escape detection. That is, the sounds were approximately those represented by i...

Now you try typing that out on a phone...
I work professionally with projects that need to distinguish between the glotta and the ʻokina.
I quickly memorised the shortcuts for ñ, å, and the typewriter apostrophe.
(Our capital is Hagåtña.)
I had to copy paste those...
Add to the work that I got a phone call in the middle :P
That's always gonna make it rough, yeah.
I still stumble over the ʻokina, and a lot of my workday is spent fixing copy that's been sent from people who don't know how to make MS Word stop changing a glotta to a smart quote.
10:48 AM
The irony
I got another call right after typing that
11:12 AM
May I ask you what could I do to improve my question here literature.stackexchange.com/questions/295/…
Q: How do we answer questions asking for prior examples in the negative?

EmrakulI've noticed that we're getting a lot of questions like this one. I'm picking this question not in specific, but because it's a good example of a general question I had. Sometimes, questions like these are very easy to prove, but extremely difficult to disprove. This primarily comes up when dea...

Rand al'Thor has been automatically appointed as owner of this room. (What does this mean?)
@fi12 If we want to do a weekly book we can do it at: chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/52122/group-reading
@Bebs I think it's a question of what sort of answer would help you. Do you want an example of a specific book from the early 1900s that was more popular than Jack London's books?
What might you be interested in doing for a group read?
11:23 AM
Or is the question about something more general than that?
@Emrakul, I was more thinking of the situation today
the popularity today
@Benjamin House of Leaves !
(I kid, sorta.)
House of Leaves is wonderful, but the problem is that two people might not read it in the same order or the same way.
Long Journey to a Small, Angry Planet?
@BESW That looks potentially interesting.
11:28 AM
If we want to really take a bath afterward, the '89 reprint of But What of Earth?
(Anthony uses his A-list authorial clout to make good on a ten-year-old grudge against an editor who did a poor job on one of Anthony's already awful early novels.)
@Bebs How so?
Seriously though, Nnedi Okorafor's Lagoon would be fascinating.
Or Ishiguro's Remains of the Day.
(Though that might be construed as very relephant to modern politics, for good or ill.)
@BESW I would be open to reading any of those other than House of Leaves. And I can't do Long Journey to A Small, Angry Planet now, it is checked out from my library.
@Emrakul, I'm thinking of today's popularity
Personally I want to make time to read a lot of Albert Wendt, but I'm not sure many here would be very willing to do that.
11:36 AM
@Bebs I think your question might benefit from a clearer statement of question, then. It's a little hard for me to tell exactly what you're asking for, or what would help your question.
I like But What of Earth.
Could we go with that?
Sorry, I was kinda joking. I honestly think But What of Earth? is a waste of tree.
ok, @Emrakul, I will work on it
@Bebs Sounds good!
It's a vicious, petty downward-punching diatribe.
11:38 AM
@BESW I have never read it and the controversy makes it interesting. You know the author lives on a tree farm.
I know far more about Piers Anthony than I ever wanted to.
@BESW I'd be willing to test the waters with a couple books, but I think for a shared reading group reading too much of one genre or author may be discouraging.
That being said, I'd be very interested to read some of their works.
Indeed. But given some of the chat's existing responses to the subjects Wendt would be discussing, I'm not sure one of his articles would be widely palatable.
...I wonder if Onedera's Liheng Abusu is available in print.
Is there a way to view the data dump of the old site in a more friendly manner?
11:45 AM
@StackExchange HA! Thank you, Stack Exchange :-P
@Randal'Thor Could you add back the questions feed?
@Bebs I believe @Gilles is a native French speaker, so probably the person here best qualified to proof-read your translations.
@Benjamin Add back? Did someone get rid of the meta feed? Or do you mean add a feed from the main site?
No one appears to have removed the meta feed, no
@Bookworm it's right there
@Randal'Thor The main site feed
@Mithrandir I've had quite a few downvotes too. Perhaps people are just more free with their downvotes as well as their upvotes during private beta?
I've also downvoted things here which I wouldn't normally bother downvoting.
11:51 AM
@Randal'Thor I agree. I think it is just the private beta state
A natural lack of perfect consensus makes downvotes more common. That's healthy, esp. at this point.
Though it would be nice (again, especially at this point) to get more comments explaining downvotes.
I've been more vocal than usual in explaining my downvotes and even votes to leave open.
12:05 PM
Man, if only I'd gotten one less downvote, then my reputation would be 666.
Now I've gotta figure out how to get one upvote and three downvotes on an answer exactly.
You beast :-P
I really wish there was an option to "Improve Edit" when reviewing tag wiki suggested edits with only 750+ rep.
Like, I think this is better than nothing, but it could still be much better than that.
I guess I'll approve it and then suggest my own edit later.
@Randal'Thor it doesn't even matter for u
@Benjamin nobody added it yet and it's better to keep it that way till initial enthusiasm take a rest
12:22 PM
Can we make [scope] and [on-topic] synonyms and merge them?
we should
@Gallifreian I was just thinking the same.
Q: Please can [on-topic] and [scope] be merged and synonymised?

Rand al'ThorThe scope tag is for questions about the scope of the site. That includes questions about what kind of things are on-topic or off-topic, but there have already been four questions using the on-topic tag, three of them without using the scope tag. Please can these three tags be merged and synonym...

Thanks, but can't you just propose synonyms yourself?
I believe you need to have a certain rep level and score in the tag to do that.
12:30 PM
Oh, I didn't know it needed that much rep
I'm surprised too, actually.
I wondered if it might have been one of those things where the rep limit is waived entirely for private betas.
It would make more sense, actually
Just to be clear, are you proposing to have [scope] or [on-topic] as the primary tag?
@Randal'Thor ?
I was thinking .
Since both and are kind of subsidiary to that.
Yeah, me too. You should probably point that out in the question though.
@Randal'Thor no it's not, been part of many
12:44 PM
@Gallifreian Done.
@Randal'Thor My hero!
@Gallifreian - Stop, you'll give Rand a big head :o)
Hey @Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ! Didn't see you lurking there :-)
Are you moving on from cars to books these days?
@Randal'Thor - How are you sir?
@Randal'Thor - I've been into both for quite some time, though I don't get the opportunity to "pleasure read" much any more ... too busy working on a Masters, family, work, and such.
@Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 Busy busy busy.
Ah, so you want to know whether car manuals count as literature ;-)
12:55 PM
LOL! BWAT! Yes, that sounds like a question for Meta, lol!
We've already had questions about song lyrics, film scripts, and video games. Join the club!
I'm not sure if "manuals" should be considered "literature"
@Randal'Thor really O.o
I hope you don't say yes to all, just for the sake of increasing quantity
Could you please explain to me what is meant by the passage: Using a 9/16" socket ...
@Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 Ah, you don't see the electrical symbolism that permeates all of Honda's greatest works?
12:59 PM
@HDE226868 - That's where I was headed next <cough>
I've got to do something ... the Electronic Arts (EA) servers have been down for the past few days. If I cannot play TitanFall2, I guess lurking on the Literature chat is the next best thing?
@Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 Amen
1:33 PM
@TRiG You can ask already in fact, just make an account.
@NapoleonWilson Need to give him the link so he can actually join the site.
Too late.
So people already made their own private spin-off chatrooms? ;-)
Wow, @Napoleon, you're in all the Lit chatrooms.
Are you volunteering to be the official Lit chat mod? ;-)
@Randal'Thor I'm just peeking, I will soon leave them all again.
@Randal'Thor Hell, no.
That would be highly inappropriate.
Don't worry, I was kidding.
Anyway, yeah, that's a surprising number of different chatrooms for day 3 of beta.
1:42 PM
Especially when they lack descriptions or reasonings for their creation and sound as general as the main chatroom.
@Benjamin What's the Group Reading room for? There's no room description, so it's hard to tell what distinguishes it from this room.
All those rooms are not a good idea at this stage
@Benjamin That's not easy to organize. People tried it there over in Mythology SE for a short while, but it didn't work. Even on a large site like Sci Fi it isn't easy.
Q: Which is the 'correct' version of the Lady of Shalott and why are there two?

MirteIt seems Tennyson wrote two versions of The Lady of Shalott. They are quite similar but have some big differences, for instance: Earlier version: On either side the river lie Long fields of barley and of rye, That clothe the wold and meet the sky; And thro' the field the r...

Nice question! I have asked something like this once, about why a certain Weöres Sándor poem has two versions.
Q: Why don't the modern printings of Campion novels use the original artwork?

BESWYoungman Carter painted beautiful bespoke art for the covers of Margery Allingham's mystery novels, and his style became associated with her work. Why don't the modern reprints of the Campion novels use her husband's art?

2:12 PM
^ Good to know I'm not the only one who cares about original artwork here.
@b_jonas I think @BESW has a professional interest.
@NapoleonWilson I'll wait. Just vaguely forming a question now.
@Randal'Thor That's even better.
Sure, take your time. But maybe you find something to answer in the meantime.
2:15 PM
Ohhhh, a Hunger Games question. This I have got to answer.
@Randal'Thor Check for a dupe on Sci Fi first.
Or not.
@b_jonas that sounds terribly exhausting. we don't do that on movies
unless someone finds an exact dup, we at movies don't look at sff much
looks a little POB
unless it's to find references to ANSWER a question
2:24 PM
@b_jonas Oh, I know all the HG questions on SFF like the back of my hand. I'll probably use some of the same quotes as I've used in one or two answers over there.
@Himarm Nah, it can be answered pretty objectively by careful analysis of the text.
2:35 PM
@b_jonas I have mixed feelings about this: literature.stackexchange.com/questions/324/…

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