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user41796
7:00 PM
It can be amended. It's just bloody difficult to do. Which is by design.
 
user41796
The "founding fathers" knew that the average man was a blathering idiot. And while a lot has changed since then, the commonality of the common man has not.
 
user114359
@LightnessRacesinOrbit That is the portion of the U.S. Constitution which protects the people from the government, at least it tries to.
 
@Snowman "amendment"
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I think you might be surprised how few people care about what the Constitution says
people will say "freedom of [speech, having guns, religion]" and that's what most people know about the Constitution
 
user114359
@LightnessRacesinOrbit "Amendment" are a part of the Constitution, and amending it is intentionally difficult. The Bill of Rights is rather unique in that the only reason some of the Confederate States ratified the Constitution was because of a promise that the Bill of Rights would come after
 
7:06 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I think it's simple culture identity; it's seen as the bedrock foundation of all that we know- our geography, our society, our entire lives are a gift from that document - is the perspective of many. It's not because of the words or meanings, it's because of the perception of it's result. That's why we call the drafters our founding "Fathers" - it's seen as they are in many ways parents to every American. In the eyes of many, it means to America what The Bible means to Christianity.
(gads not to me, but that's how I perceive people's holding it aloft as you describe)
 
but you see the irony
that it's changed over time
sure, it's deliberately hard to change. I get that.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I do, but those changes weren't the progenitor of our "exceptionalism"
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit 17 changes in 230 years isn't exactly changing a lot
 
@enderland the first fourth and fifth amendments look like "a lot" to me!
when did the first amendment come about? were the founding fathers still alive?
 
user114359
@LightnessRacesinOrbit what meaningful changes has it made since the Bill of Rights? Ended slavery, women's suffrage. Many other changes were more administrative stuff that aren't exactly granting rights.
 
user41796
7:09 PM
And look at how badly they blew things with prohibition. < shudders >
 
@GlenH7 haha yes that was hilarious
 
user114359
The Bill of Rights is the collective name for the first ten amendments to the United States Constitution. Proposed to assuage the fears of Anti-Federalists who had opposed Constitutional ratification, these amendments guarantee a number of personal freedoms, limit the government's power in judicial and other proceedings, and reserve some powers to the states and the public. Originally the amendments applied only to the federal government, however, most were subsequently applied to the government of each state by way of the Fourteenth Amendment, through a process known as incorporation. On June...
 
I remember it well
 
user114359
1791
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit the first 10 were passed very shortly after the constitution was ratified
 
7:10 PM
@enderland meh I didn't ask for FACTS I wanted lies to support my position
you're fired
 
user114359
1776 - Declaration of Independence. 1779 - Earned independence. 1789 - Constitution ratified. 1791 - Bill of Rights ratified.
 
It is also interesting to note that the amendments are primarily about protecting individual rights (with a few exceptions)
 
like the right to get shot
 
no, idiots like you read that amendment as that and make it complicated for anyone who can actually read
 
user114359
actually, we don't have that right (flamebait)
 
7:12 PM
7 mins ago, by enderland
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I think you might be surprised how few people care about what the Constitution says
 
user114359
If I shot myself I would be arrested, charged, and probably booked into a psych ward
 
Americans tend to be much more "individual rights" centered than the rest of the world (well, recently that might be changing?) and have a much higher distrust of governmental authority dictating how they live
 
@Snowman protected our drinking water, granted equal rights in housing and employment to all, created an agency to provide help for the elderly and extended it to help the disabled
 
user41796
@enderland Hmmmm, I wonder what county would have given us that as our birthright...
 
user114359
@JimmyHoffa a lot of that came from the 14th amendment, which is covered under "ended slavery" above.
 
7:16 PM
@Snowman not true
The Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Pub.L. 88–352, 78 Stat. 241, enacted July 2, 1964) is a landmark piece of civil rights legislation in the United States that outlawed discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin. It ended unequal application of voter registration requirements and racial segregation in schools, at the workplace and by facilities that served the general public (known as "public accommodations"). Powers given to enforce the act were initially weak, but were supplemented during later years. Congress asserted its authority to legislate under several different...
^-- housing and employment discrimination were completely legal before this
The Clean Water Act (CWA) is the primary federal law in the United States governing water pollution. Its objective is to restore and maintain the chemical, physical, and biological integrity of the nation's waters by preventing point and nonpoint pollution sources, providing assistance to publicly owned treatment works for the improvement of wastewater treatment, and maintaining the integrity of wetlands. It is one of the United States' first and most influential modern environmental laws. As with many other major U.S. federal environmental statutes, it is administered by the U.S. Environmental...
 
user114359
user image
2
 
user114359
'MURIKA!
 
user114359
@JimmyHoffa true
 
it should also be pointed out that the main reason the Bill of Rights exists in the first place was because some states didn't want to ratify the constitution without it
 
3 mins ago, by GlenH7
@enderland Hmmmm, I wonder what county would have given us that as our birthright...
 
7:18 PM
so it's almost misleading to even talk about those first ten amendments as separate entities
 
@Ixrec the irony of course being that so many states now are blaspheming them as terrible big government they want to be rid of
 
user114359
@Ixrec right, they were basically already enumerated before the Constitution was ratified. States had a specific list of things they wanted, and I believe it was James Madison that compiled them all together and wrote the Bill of Rights
 
user41796
@Snowman Missing quite a few iconic US gun manufacturers in there.
 
@GlenH7 chinese is cheaper. 'Murikah.
 
user114359
@JimmyHoffa My own family tells me the Bill of Rights is an anachronism, we need (most of) it to go away. Bah!
 
7:19 PM
wait, the whole Bill of Rights?
 
user41796
@JimmyHoffa La Rue appears to be a custom type shop out of Texas.
 
the arms one is a blatant anachronism but the others seem fine
 
> equal rights are so passe, owned peasants are all the rage these days
user image
2
 
the 10th one is arguably still relevant for anyone anti-big government
 
user114359
@Ixrec Some of the crap I read on social media.... people complaining that others can say what they want, defend themselves with lethal force from criminals, the government can't just read whatever they want of our data because "terrorism," upset that we don't torture certain types of criminals (e.g. kiddy diddlers), the list goes on.
 
7:21 PM
realistically though, the entire constitution/bill of rights doesn't matter in the slightest bit unless government as a whole respects its authority
 
user114359
@Ixrec 10th amendment is one of the most important, but it might as well not even exist.
 
@Snowman as in the complainers don't seem to know about it?
 
user114359
@JimmyHoffa I prefer Austrian
 
@enderland true, though this applies to any form of law in any society
 
@Snowman yeah... that's so true, a lot of governmental regulation is like the antithesis of it (yay commerce clause?)
 
7:23 PM
> Republican presidential candidates Ted Cruz, Mike Huckabee and Bobby Jindal all spoke this weekend at the National Religious Liberties Conference in Iowa, an event hosted by Kevin Swanson, a Colorado-based pastor and activist who frequently informs his followers that the biblical penalty for homosexuality is death and defended a proposed law in Uganda that would have imposed life imprisonment or capital punishment for homosexuality.
 
user114359
@Ixrec our courts never use it. That amendment alone would curb a lot of the bloat of our massive social programs that are collapsing under their own weight, and the military-industrial complex that is destroying our entire world.
 
ah
 
the fact that the idea of death penalty for homosexuality is so close to mainstream politics these days just tells you how common much of the crazy is these days..
 
@Snowman see, I think the military thing is interesting, since the USA effectively is subsidizing all of Europe with military spending. I'm curious what those countries would look like if the USA said, "in 2020 we're done spending money on military activities which affect you, period"
 
user114359
@enderland Don't try growing food on your own farm for your own consumption if said food is restricted for interstate commerce... I forget the court case but it came up a few years ago where some farmer got hammered by the SCOTUS for doing that.
 
7:24 PM
it sure gives a lot of people a platform to blast the USA with and... it's always funny to me how many of those (most?) people live in countries indirectly able to have those programs precisely because the USA has it's military spend the way it does
 
user114359
 
Nov 5 at 21:45, by Jimmy Hoffa
@GlenH7 Scotch you buddy!
 
user114359
@JimmyHoffa The real issue is that in a country founded on the principles of personal freedom and liberty, some people care too much about what others do in the privacy of their own homes. See: homosexuality, smoking pot, etc.
 
@Snowman or smoking pot while... nevermind.
 
7:34 PM
true, I've never understood why anyone cares so much about what people do in their private lives (given no one gets seriously hurt or endangered ofc)
 
@Snowman many people just have difficulty recognizing the line between personal freedom for them, and personal freedom for them that encroaches on the freedoms of others. Allowing interracial marriage was touted as violating personal freedom of religion in places where it was outlawed for instance. For people to have equal freedoms, they must be equally restricted in certain ways that ensures they don't restrict the freedoms of others.
> Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (so long as your happiness isn't attained through removing another's life or liberty)
 
user41796
@Snowman Speaking of the last example - was at a store buying new shoes yesterday. There was another couple there that unmistakably had the scent of pot on them.
 
@GlenH7 So it offended your nostrils?
 
@GlenH7 alternatively: The guy really needed to do something about his foot odor
 
Mandatory showers for everyone!
 
user41796
7:38 PM
@Ampt A) it was pretty damn obvious. B) they hadn't offered to share.
 
@AshleyNunn did I tell you I finished FEED?
 
user15026
@Ampt No you didn't! What did you think?
 
(I honestly can't remember if I did or not)
Very, very good book!
Some of the backstory was hard to swallow, but for the most part it was a very good and engaging read
loved the twists it kept taking
Can't believe the ending...
Now I gotta pick up the second one!
 
or did they implement some form of weighted close votes that make Michael superpowered?
 
sigh
 
7:48 PM
2 hours ago, by enderland
0
Q: The number of votes required to close and reopen questions is temporarily reduced . . . for science!

Jon EricsonFor the next 30 days, closing a question will require just 3 votes. Also 3 votes will be sufficient to reopen a closed question. In essence, each close and reopen vote has 5/3rds the normal value. After 30 days I will revert the site setting back to 5 and evaluate the results. I have tested thi...

 
neat
 
user41796
2 hours ago, by Robert Harvey
Voldemort == @GlenH7?
 
user55340
I like the idea of super powers though.
 
I can't help but notice the close vote queue is extremely small today
=)
 
i'm writing a chess engine from scratch over at my youtube channel if anyones interested
 
8:10 PM
ugh performance management
 
user41796
@enderland aw... c'mon now. You know you love to sing your praises.
 
@GlenH7 no
:P
 
@enderland @ThomasOwens @GlenH7 engineering expertise required: IT guy here was given an old server hard drive and told to destroy it physically. Suggestions? There's always industrial shredding, but there's got to be easier more available ways to do proper destruction of the platter's readability. Acid wash? Ehh.. Thoughts? Any way to just run a sata cable from a wall socket into it to frazzle the bits?
 
user41796
What's on it? Or what level of reconstruction are you trying to prevent?
 
dump it into a volcano?
 
8:13 PM
@GlenH7 dunno, but we do have gov contracts so they try to do things properly regarding all systems
@GlenH7 prevent electron microscope reading
 
perhaps a dremel
 
can you really recover a useful amount of data from a shredded hard drive with an electron microscope?
 
user55340
@JimmyHoffa you need to make the platters small bits of metal.
 
@MichaelT is this the only way? Can't be.
I know industrial shredder is the stock standard - iron mountain will take care of such for you or whoever it is that runs all those secure shredder bins
 
user55340
8:18 PM
@JimmyHoffa if you don't, I can reconstruct enough. Tracks and sectors are rather small.
 
user55340
1
A: The number of votes required to close and reopen questions is temporarily reduced . . . for science!

MichaelTI'm putting this out there as a possible alternative interpretation of the flat and peak graph for Programmers.SE close votes. Our scope is more cleanly defined than we are given credit for. The close votes that are cast, and the ultimately deleted questions are done with a great deal of consis...

 
user41796
@Ixrec yes
 
user41796
@JimmyHoffa Are you being serious?
 
@MichaelT what about platters in a kiln - would you be able to reconstruct?
 
user41796
If you really, truly have to nuke it...
 
user41796
8:19 PM
First step is to power it back on and run a program that writes random data down across the entire drive. Multiple times
 
@GlenH7 I've been tempted to ask that several times already but was afraid of looking like an idiot because no one's gotten me in trouble via microscopes yet
 
user41796
DOD has a spec for how much and what pattern(s) to use to wipe it.
 
user55340
If the magnetic information is still present with a hint of 1 or 0.
 
@GlenH7 I'm serious in that I'm just curious about possible/plausible approaches for destruction given the constraints, it's not my trouble and I suspect the IT guys will just send it out for shredding but I just find it to be an interesting thought experiment
 
user41796
The whole point is to obliterate any and all traces of the data that may have been there before.
 
user41796
8:20 PM
Once you've done that, you toss it into an industrial grade grinder which will shred it to bits.
 
user41796
Lacking an industry grinder, take off the outer shell, separate out the platters, and then play whack a mole with the platters and a really big sledgehammer
 
@GlenH7 yes; this is precisely what I figure the IT folk will do - they already overwrote it all
 
user41796
There's overwriting and then there's DOD spec'd overwriting
 
@GlenH7 yes I know - they did that I mean
 
is there an official piece of software to do DOD spec overwriting?
 
user41796
8:22 PM
@Ixrec ought to be yes
 
@Ixrec there's - at least on windows - a kernal level raw write method intended specifically for doing such; much software has been written utilizing this.
 
user41796
Iron mountain and other document companies provide physical disk shredding too, afaik
 
@GlenH7 yeah. But your answer is terribly boring. Can you engineer no other approaches that make any sense? Do you think a kiln really wouldn't render the platters unreadable?
 
user41796
@JimmyHoffa arguable
 
user41796
how hot is the kiln?
 
user41796
8:23 PM
what's the material of the platters?
 
@GlenH7 you're the engineer, this is why I'm asking you! ;D
 
user41796
if your kiln isn't hotter than the firing temp for the platters, then no bueno
 
user55340
Baking doesn't alter the magnetic info unless it's real hot.
 
user55340
If anything it's more likely to preserve the information.
 
user41796
8:24 PM
And you can drill lots of holes in the platters, but they're still readable. Which is why it gets back to "how badly do you want the thing destroyed."
 
I still say volcano
 
@MichaelT interesting. How about acid wash?
 
user41796
@Ixrec gotta make sure you get it into the actual hot part of the volcano though. Surprisingly difficult
 
user41796
@JimmyHoffa may or may not have an effect upon the magnetic material. glass tends to be impervious to many / most acids
 
user55340
If you can remove the magnetic layer, great. If not, not great.
 
8:26 PM
@GlenH7 glass? I thought platters were always metal
 
user41796
Dang there's a nice sense of satisfaction in this 3 votes to close stuff. Bit of garbage on the site, others have already voted. Bam! close it out
 
user41796
@JimmyHoffa no, two separate materials
 
I'm having trouble finding anything to vote on, you guys got it all before I showed up
 
how about using electricity/magnetism/electrical-magnetism?
 
user41796
A hard disk drive platter (or disk) is the circular disk on which magnetic data is stored in a hard disk drive. The rigid nature of the platters in a hard drive is what gives them their name (as opposed to the flexible materials which are used to make floppy disks). Hard drives typically have several platters which are mounted on the same spindle. A platter can store information on both sides, requiring two heads per platter. == Design == The magnetic surface of each platter is divided into small sub-micrometer-sized magnetic regions, each of which is used to represent a single binary uni...
 
@Ixrec That's the idea.
 
user41796
@Ixrec I'm down to about 4 or 5 left, so I'll be out shortly
 
Why not just triple overwrite then degauss the drive?
 
user55340
I'm out already.
 
Oh, bleaugh. You guys are talking about erasing CD's? Put them in a microwave oven for 3 seconds. Done and dusted.
 
user41796
8:28 PM
@RobertHarvey hard drives
 
user55340
Nah, he's talking about drive platters. I just like that video.
 
That is a cool video.
 
user55340
That one is fun too.
 
@ThomasOwens "degauss" ? Elaborate.
 
I've given up on this question
0
Q: Is this still repository pattern or something else?

t3chb0tI have a configuration class that holds a collection of object converters: public static class Configuration { public static IEnumerable<IObjectConverter> Converters { get; } public static void LoadSettings(...); // from some data source public static void UpdateSetting(...); // a s...

 
oi
 
Degaussing is the process of decreasing or eliminating a remnant magnetic field. It is named after the gauss, a unit of magnetism, which in turn was named after Carl Friedrich Gauss. Due to magnetic hysteresis, it is generally not possible to reduce a magnetic field completely to zero, so degaussing typically induces a very small "known" field referred to as bias. Degaussing was originally applied to reduce ships' magnetic signatures during the Second World War. Degaussing is also used to reduce magnetic fields in CRT monitors and to destroy data held on magnetic data storage. == Ships' h...
 
@RobertHarvey I was just looking at that actually, I'm wondering if I should VTC as unclear based on the comments
 
That's what I just did.
 
8:32 PM
how about that classic match-in-microwave gag? Say you put a the platter in the top of a glass bowl - upside down over a lit candle in the nuke. @GlenH7 what would that do?
 
ok, let's all gang up on him
 
His problem amounts to "I don't like it." I don't see how that's answerable.
 
I definitely have no idea how to go about answering it
hola
 
user41796
@JimmyHoffa probably not much
 
refactoring is all about not liking something or being not intuitive, isnt' it?
 
8:35 PM
@GlenH7 apparently for the glass platters, a microwave'll do just fine:
 
or hard to use, or confusing or not maintainable etc etc
 
@t3chb0t it's usually not about not liking something, it's about fixing a problem that makes the existing code unmaintainable or some other negative thing
 
But I'm curious, why do you need to physically destroy the platters?
Why isn't several overwrites with random data sufficient?
 
user55340
Refactoring is about cleaning up the internals to make them more testable and maintainable while at the same time leaving the interface consistent or a simple, mechanical transformation.
 
If you want to get nuts, why not a small explosive charge? Or thermite? OR just take a blowtorch to the platters and destroy them beyond use?
 
8:37 PM
@ThomasOwens with an electron microscope technically somebody could pick multiple versions of the bits up and piece it back together- unlikely as all hell but that's the story people claim that has it being stock standard to just destroy them.
@ThomasOwens thermite was the first thought that came to mind.. but that/explosives are a little too crazy
 
@JimmyHoffa What the hell kind of data was on these drives?
 
though the more immediate problem with the question is I just can't tell what it's asking/trying to accomplish
 
The method of destruction should be connected to the type of data.
 
I guess I should have asked a different question... does a repository pattern require a database or a file or can it just be a wrapper around some collection in memory.
 
@ThomasOwens who knows? Not the point, it's not an uncommon security standard. All the gov contracts you work with I'm surprised you don't have the same requirements.
 
user41796
8:38 PM
@JimmyHoffa thermite ought to work, yes, as it will fuse the platters and shred the magnetic material
 
@GlenH7 yeah but I don't see anybody in a software shop being given the green light to use thermite for ... anything.
 
@JimmyHoffa I think a 7 pass overwrite and a drill press is sufficient.
 
psr
I read some (public) DOD document some years ago - it recommended melting the hard drive as ideal, but thought that shredding should be good enough.
 
user41796
@t3chb0t That's the point of the pattern - callers into the repository don't need to know / care how information is persisted
 
@t3chb0t yeah, it's also not clear if you're asking about the definition of the repository pattern or about this specific thing you're trying to do
 
user41796
@JimmyHoffa cowards
 
The NSA has evaluated degaussers.
 
psr
@ThomasOwens Issues with overwriting strips of data not aligning perfectly, leaving swaths that are difficult but possible to recover.
 
user41796
most degaussers aren't powerful enough, afaik
 
in particular, "I have a configuration class that holds a collection of object converters:" and "The convertes are in my opinion in the wrong place" is all you ever say about what this class is for
 
user114359
8:40 PM
I used to work in an office where we had to secure delete, degauss, and shred hard drives no longer in use.
 
If it's sufficient for classified defense data, it should be good enough for you.
 
when the problem description is "I have a class that does X, but X should be done elsewhere, what do I do?", that's not a lot for us to go on
 
user114359
@Ixrec How about move X somewhere else then get back to us?
 
@Snowman that's more or less what the question closure implies
 
8:42 PM
@MichaelT Mr. Maven Expert - you there?
 
user55340
@Ampt I prefer Maven maven.
 
user55340
Noun: maven ‎(plural mavens)
  1. (chiefly US) An expert in a given field.
  2. 2006 January 23, Virginia Robbins, Opinion: Eight Steps to Leadership, Computerworld, page 19,
  3. 2010, Rachel Davis Mersey, Can Journalism Be Saved?: Rediscovering America's Appetite for News, page 118,
  4. maven c
 
Our Pom file includes settings about our local environment - namely where our CMS server resides. My team lead had an IDE in her VM, so she points to localhost, where I use intelliJ and point to my VM, which has an IP
 
@Ixrec I didn't want to get the entire framework reviewed :] In this case I would have asked it at Code Review... I'll delete it and ask again only about the repository pattern without involving any configurations etc. you're right, it was too confusing after all
 
these settings are held under the properties tag inside the main pom.xml
what do?
 
8:43 PM
To sanitize a HDD, you can use an automatic degausser and then physically deform the internal platters by any means (recommended: a hard disk drive crusher). Alternatively, disassemble the HDD and use a degaussing wand over every platter and then physically damage the drives. Or disintegrate into particles nominally 2 millimeters edge length, preferably in bulk (so it's that much harder to reassemble a particular drive platter), or incinerate to the point of ash.
Those are the acceptable methods for Unclassified through Top Secret DoD Data.
 
user55340
If this isn't consistent across all machines, settings.xml may need to be used.
 
user55340
It's one of this I don't like it things.
 
user41796
@t3chb0t Edit the one you have
 
user55340
It means builds are machine dependent.
 
user41796
No answers on it, so nothing to invalidate. We can easily get the comments removed
 
user41796
8:46 PM
And it's trivial for us to get it reopened for you
 
@MichaelT they are, yes
are we using maven wrong?
 
we've already closed everything (literally!) so I'll notice if anything ends up in the reopen queue
 
user55340
@Ampt the company repo should be in a consistent spot available to all relevant machines.
 
@ThomasOwens so degauss is the recommendation is what I'm hearing. Degauss would be using electro-magnetism aye?
 
user55340
Be it a file:/// or http://. It needs to be the same for all.
 
8:49 PM
@JimmyHoffa Yeah. There are degaussing tools that you can use.
 
very cool
 
But I really question as to why you need to and why overwriting is not sufficient. Is the data really that sensitive?
 
@MichaelT It's not the repo we're having problems pointing at, it's our local environments
we are building for a CMS server, so maven has to know where to push our updates
so we can see if they break stuff
 
@GlenH7 @ThomasOwens oo, this looks like garbage except the very last one - 10 of 10 just looks cool: wikihow.com/Destroy-a-Hard-Drive
@ThomasOwens risk mitigation, following security protocols of a certain level are a big selling point to a variety of our clients.
 
user55340
Hmm. The deployment goal. Not build.
 
8:52 PM
@Ampt ahh, you finally got around to the CI suite I see.
 
@JimmyHoffa Ah, OK.
I don't know if there's an actual DoD guidance document. If there is, implementing that may be suitable to most clients.
 
Nov 6 at 20:35, by enderland
2 days ago, by Jimmy Hoffa
yesterday, by MichaelT
Jul 28 '14 at 18:52, by Jimmy Hoffa
<--- Helping.
 
But if you just want to be able to demonstrate capabilities or procedures, degaussing followed by physical destruction of the platters is sufficient.
Atlassian has filed for an IPO?
 
user55340
I would look at using an environment variable then. Or maybe a profile for each dev. That gets ugly too though. Though sometimes ugly is the only way.
 
user41796
@JimmyHoffa The oxidation route might do the trick, yes
 
8:57 PM
@GlenH7 may I ask to remove the comments? I have rewritten the question. I think now it's more clear what I wanted to ask ;-) programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/302165/…
 
user41796
My concern with many of those is that they may not fully destroy the magnetic material and platter
 
user41796
@ThomasOwens - Would you nuke all the comments on this post, please. I'd ping @RobertHarvey, but he dropped out of the room
 
user41796
@t3chb0t You can delete all of you comments, btw. There's an X to the right hand side of each comment
 
Done.
It looks suitable for reopening now, too.
If there's concurrence, I can mod hammer it open.
 
user41796
I've already VTR'd
 
8:59 PM
There. Reopened.
 

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