The Whiteboard - 2015-11-06 (page 3 of 4)

« first day (1890 days earlier) ← previous day next day → last day (3094 days later) »

8:00 PM

computer systems that go on airplanes without passengers owning them probably represent 0.001% of all systems

whereas consumer goods having significant manufacturing concerns is close to 100%

@whatsisname So?

And do you know how many components are on an aircraft that have software on them?

user55340

2

Q: Allways collapse comments on deleted answers

As noted elsewhere that comments take up a lot of vertical space and attention on a page. While it isn't costing any more votes on a deleted post, it still is districting. With comments on deleted answers of undeleted questions, automatically and always fully collapse them requiring a click to s...

feature-request comments deleted-answers

so the value you obtain from speeding up an algorithm is not at all the same as from simplifying or improving your manufacturing

I'm not sure if the argument is that it's not engineering because computers are cheaper than people or it's not engineering because we don't have to think about raw material weights/costs every five seconds

speeding up an algorithm is a one-time cost

8:01 PM

@whatsisname It can be to the customer.

improving manufacturing is a per-unit saving

taking the screw out of the engine is good because GM makes a gazillion engines a year

taking a screw out of an air conditioner mounting bracket isn't worth it

I sell my box to Boeing who puts it on a 787 and then sell hundreds of 787s to a customer. Can you see the savings adding up with the sheer number of flights over the lifespan of a plane? Improving software means reducing hardware weight, increasing carrying capacity of a plane or reducing fuel consumption, giving airlines more money.

@ThomasOwens: even if every component on an aircraft had some goofy IoT processor on it, you still wouldn't come close to comparing to the number of Dentist appointment apps out there

@enderland

@enderland yeah! What Chris H said! Waddaya got to say to that! — Jimmy Hoffa 3 hours ago

@whatsisname which all, for the record, suck :P

8:03 PM

btw, any call about Emp++ ?

I've certainly never seen my dentists use software that looked like its UI framework was from this century

@whatsisname So what?

Henceforth they shall all be known as Imps because..it's just more fitting.

@JimmyHoffa nope, going to email them in about 30 min or so asking about any updates though

@ThomasOwens: how many software products are measured by their weight?

8:04 PM

@enderland yeck, phones are things Bob.

@JimmyHoffa yeah because we all know how well received random phone calls from interviewees are :P

@whatsisname 1: '90s AOL CD mailers

Hmmm... if I have a question regarding what's appropriate to display in a portfolio when applying for dev jobs, which board should I ask it on? stackoverflow, Programmers.SE, or something else?

most webapps are measured (at some point) by minified code size because that affects how long it takes the browser to load them

I guess that's the closest you get to "weight"

@daOnlyBG: workplace, or chat

8:05 PM

@daOnlyBG workplace.stackexchange.com/…

@enderland depends on the person and circumstance. Calling HR people is OK because screw them, calling engineery people is bleh because they're busy and don't oft have authority to really make official comments on employment decisions

oh, and at work we have some executable sizes measured in gigabytes, which are getting dangerously close to the limits of what the OS is capable of running

that also feels like a kind of weight, sorta

@ThomasOwens: i think you're seeing your situation as representative of the bigger picture

@whatsisname Software is part of a system. Although software doesn't weigh anything, software has performance requirements. If that performance requirement says that a particular operation must be performed in n seconds, you can do that with hardware that costs m kg or p kg. If m > p, if you can get your software to work on a hardware set that weights p kg, you win.

@whatsisname No. I'm saying that you can't look at all software development as being the same.

@Ixrec what? This statement demands ~~scotch~~ further explanation. Gigabyte sized executables??

8:07 PM

the overwhelming majority of softwares have no power/weight/etc considerations

or if they should, they don't...

Well, theres no disagreement that it's not all the same

@whatsisname And that kind of proves my point that too many people are called software engineers. People who care about what I'm talking about are engineers.

@JimmyHoffa I am completely serious

we call them "bigs"

@ThomasOwens plenty of people doing CAD/HVAC design all day hardly care about that too

8:08 PM

our internal libraries are frequently defined by whether they're safe to use "in the bigs" or only work outside "the bigs" or whatnot

@enderland Tell that to the people at Carrier who are designing new air conditions that are more efficient.

user41796

@whatsisname More accurately: the cost to benefit ratio for those considerations often means that there's little justification in worrying about them. You can make assumptions and round that to zero, but you have to be aware of the assumption you're making

and the bigs will never be compilable on linux

@Ixrec I ~~scotch~~ believe you, but genuinely - you have to give some detail here. How? What goes into them to make them that big??

a lot of people doing what is widely accepted as engineering do a trial by error approach, moreso than a systematic and rigorous "engineering" approach

8:08 PM

@GlenH7, yes, as always, there are exceptions

I can ask here, I suppose. Someone once told me that my Github account will eventually be my resume/"portfolio" when applying to jobs in the future. (Don't bother to look at mine now; there's nothing interesting on there). How much should one show? Would a prospective employer ever think "This guy's sharing way too much?"

obviously the developers for the software on the mars rovers has very serious real-world constraints they are up against

@whatsisname Those people should be called engineers.

note-taking software for chiropractors, not so much

@JimmyHoffa I have no idea why it was allowed to get that far out of control, fortunately I spend most of my time in code that has long since broken free of the bigs

8:10 PM

@whatsisname Those people (unless they happen to be engineers by education) shouldn't be called engineers.

user55340

It won't change until our customers (the people who want the 1001st dentist schedule app) put us to the same standards as other engineering disciplines.

and the newest internal application framework has zero dependence on them, thank god

@Ixrec that absolutely has to be due to embedded resources stuffed into the binary, there's no way that's all just the hex machine code

I would call those people engineers too (the rovers, not the chiropractors)

@ThomasOwens ahhh my mech e degree is finally useful for something! :)

user41796

8:10 PM

@daOnlyBG Pfffft. Whatevers. Github isn't replacing traditional resumes any time soon. It enhances, not replaces the resume.

@JimmyHoffa pretty much, yeah

whoever said GitHub will replace resumes is talking out of their ass

@Ixrec pretty much what? embedded ~~scotch~~ videos??

user41796

@whatsisname note taking software for medical professionals should be written by engineers due to the potential regulations involved.

user55340

If they continue to accept crap code from the lowest bidder, then that's who you will be calling engineers.

8:11 PM

@GlenH7: i'd rather it not be, personally

@JimmyHoffa actually I have no idea what you were trying to say so ignore me

@GlenH7, engineers as in definitions 2 and 3 from above

to me being an "engineer" means you can systematically approach, define, solve, and implement solutions to problems. (it turns out this is actually a really hard thing for a lot of people)

OK. I'm out for the day. We cna pick this up on Monday if we want to. Or coffee.

alright have a good weekend

8:12 PM

@ThomasOwens This chat is going to forget we had this conversation in 20 minutes

user41796

@whatsisname Welcome to HIPPA

but it's a nice thought

Have a good weekend!

@Ixrec how are the assemblies that big? Do the assemblies have embedded documents/images/etc in them for use by the application or is all of the size purely just the binary machine code?

from what little I do know, I believe the main reason it got this bad is because for a long time it was considered good practice to stick your services into the bigs, because then you didn't have to worry about deployment (there's a separate team whose job it is to build and deploy the bigs) and you get a lot of fast APIs for free, like loading all the magic id numbers connected to the current user

@GlenH7: I'm aware of all that stuff

user41796

8:12 PM

@Ampt WAT? Scotch?!

@JimmyHoffa purely binary code afaik

I believe that having those developed by true-scotsman engineers will make them slightly better, and 100x more expensive

@Ixrec Why do you always have to be such an extremist. It's not all black and white you know.

@whatsisname I think Thomas is coming from the regulatory hell that is governmental stuff, and designing within those constraints requires ~~insanity~~ engineering

@enderland Not just the regulatory hell.

8:13 PM

@Ixrec the fuck?? How bad were the compilers? How many versions of the same things are compiled into them? Where do you get enough code to make that much machine code??

@Ampt well, I haven't gone in there and looked, only crazy people do that

@JimmyHoffa many decades of C++ talking to C talking to Fortran that all uses the same shared memory areas

I could see a few c++ template mishaps could cause an executable to explode in size

The fact that there's a close relationship between the software and the hardware. There's a maximum size, weight, and power that a hardward box running my software can be. That limits the choice in RAM, hard disks, processors, etc. However, if I can make my software better (using engineering methods), I should do that.

user41796

@Ampt well played.

I can't just blindly eat up the resources that I'm given. I need to do better.

8:14 PM

@whatsisname ah utilizing the compiler to generate code?

the vendor-supplied compilers regularly choke on our codebase, we're trying to upgrade these machines to C++11 but the new compiler versions that support C++11 fail to compile the bigs in several dozen places

I'm subscribed to the ticket where some guy reduces each failure to minimal code examples and sends them back to the vendors...he's been at it for years

OK. Timecard done. Have a good weekend, Programmers!

and yes, C++ templates are almost certainly contributing to it

bye!

there's also a tremendous amount of dead code that never gets deleted

partly because the interdependencies of code in the bigs are so tangled that the meaning of "dead code" gets a bit subjective

is that from dogmatic OCP following or other nonsense

custom tools have been written to try and remove dead code in an automated fashion as one of the short-term measures to prevent these executables from hitting the size at which they can no longer run

8:17 PM

@ThomasOwens a key part of engineering is also understanding what constraints are relevant or not. I agree with @whatsisname in that for development, many times constraints of hardware resources are fairly minor. does this mean that software engineering is engineering with... no constraints? :-)

@Ixrec subjective in that objectively nobody has a clue what's alive or dead

@JimmyHoffa have I told you about how we dummy out symbols to silence linker errors?

@enderland: most software development has few physics-imposed constraints

so, yes for the most part

(for the record, NONE of what I'm describing applies in the more recently-written code that I actually work on every day, we stay veeeeeery far away from this junk)

oh, and here's the sillest part

@enderland honestly, our constraints are mostly budgetary. Take away the budgetary constraint and we can design horrendously inefficient but parallellizable stuff and just expect it to be executed across 3000 AWS instances. If the application is simple enough - then that design may be perfectly fine and workable on only a couple machines. As the project scope scales up the budget either does exponentially with that design or the design decisions alter towards efficiency.

if budget isn't a concern we could all write our code to run on a Cray that we ship to every user

8:20 PM

in the "modern bigs", the most important chunk is the Javascript interpreter, because our current UI logic is implemented in server-side Javascript

not like node.js Javascript, I mean every time you click a button that's a roundtrip to the server

haha oh man that is absolutely hilarious

the new application framework is revolutionary for us because it lets us write client-side Javascript

which is probably the dumbest sentence I'm ever going to write in this chat room

but it is

gigabyte sized executables of fortran / c / c++ all linked and running javascript...

sanity check email proof plz:

@enderland don't call people NULL, it's insulting to assault people with dereferencing exceptions

8:23 PM

the long term plan with these bigs is to strip out all the code that isn't the Javascript interpreter, so that the apps relying on the current UI technology can keep running and everybody else can go live in microservices like they're supposed to

:25218539 gads I hate these communications, you try to give some vestigial friendly statements when really you just want to ask a damned question but doing so outright would be considered rude. Eesh. Anyway, I would toss in some vestigial crap about how you enjoyed meeting them and appreciated the time they spent with you on TOPIC

yeah good call, though, techanilly I never met htis person

my brain is shot

lol

> I enjoyed touring your office, the lavatories were particularly well scented and shiny

their office is brand new as of like 12 months ago, so it is really nice

> the sushi was great; but I think I got worms, wouldn't want to have to call OSHA, have you heard anything about my chances?

8:25 PM

lol

user41796

@enderland - I'd use "I have" in this case instead of "I have"

user41796

And you forgot the obligatory "I'm very excited about this opportunity because of blah blah"

@GlenH7 friday afternoon scotch time eh

@GlenH7 what kind of services? do you have a library/dll or anything installed locally?

that's more BS'y

but probably better

so I think I should upgrade to the latest visual studio

user41796

8:28 PM

web services. And yes, I can run the services locally

@GlenH7 doing this with vba?

I get to develop a web app that presents data screen-scraped from a remote citrix session

yay

user41796

:25218718 Throw in a specific bit about why you you're excited

user41796

@enderland C#

@whatsisname that sounds incredibly performant and robust

8:30 PM

This answers is good for once you suspect that the bug is in third-party code. It seems less helpful for coming to that suspicion in the first place. — Winston Ewert 2 mins ago

0

A: How to determine if there's something wrong with my code or a bug in the library

I'm sorry to say this, but there is no magic bullet. There is no way in general to easily tell whether: You have a bug in your code. You misunderstand what third-party code is supposed to do. Third-party code is doing the wrong thing. The only solution is to improve your knowledge of javascr...

that's... amusing lolol

yeah it's going to be awesome

@GlenH7 ask more in here - @enderland and @RobertHarvey both have done relatively large amounts of VBA if I'm recalling correctly... to be sure: I would suggest you just figure out how to make the com construction of the XmlHttpRequest object

3 mins ago, by GlenH7

@enderland C#

@GlenH7 why can't you figure out how to make a REST web service call in C#?

user41796

@JimmyHoffa a) I haven't written the actual calling function before and b) it still has to play nicely with our authentication / authorization component.

user55340

8:34 PM

What authez approach?

@GlenH7 just mean you've never written a REST call with C#? It's easy; is the service return XML, JSON, or can you choose? What tech hosts the REST service so you know how it's serializing?

authentication is always the reason something isn't as simple as it should be

@Ixrec just remove all security, what could possibly happen

2 days ago, by Jimmy Hoffa

yesterday, by MichaelT

Jul 28 '14 at 18:52, by Jimmy Hoffa

<--- Helping.

user41796

@MichaelT We have an underlying method that catches it. All of my previous work has been above the wrapping layer

user55340

Basic is nice. Header not bad. Forms and sso are a pain.

8:38 PM

@MichaelT I stick to HMAC header these days. Easiest to work with well-secured approach I've come up with.

my wife is a wordsmithing wizard, for the record

user55340

Internal things, I just stick the rest controller in a basic auth zone.

@enderland smith and wizard are an invalid dual-class

@JimmyHoffa cant they just be friends? :(

@enderland ish

8:41 PM

:25219063 she works in communications, and writes stuff like this to people who care a million times more than the HR person who will read this (ie academics, professors, etc)

people who get upset over the most ridiculous of things. lol

Day 5: The locals have taken a break from their usual routine to take turns making airplanes out of paper and shooting them down with foam darts. I'm not sure what the point of this activity is, but I enjoy it.

you have way more free time at work than I do

@Ixrec it's ok, do you want to talk about it?

lol

lol

I laughed out loud at that, not very often I do that haha

8:46 PM

I mean, I probably could get away with slacking off a bit...or I could go fix that one bug that's been annoying the hell out of me all week

or write more tests

etc

@Ixrec do you not SE at work? I always thought you were American

I moved to the UK

I don't normally SE at work unless I have been forcibly rendered unable to do anything productive for a significant period of time

i.e., when I'm working on the bit of legacy code we own that is in the bigs, which means testing it requires long build times

thank the lord for shared objects

also, how is it possible for my internet to be broken on everything that isn't SE

blame caching

shouldiblamecaching.com

wait...wikipedia articles I've never seen before load fine

is it just google searches and youtube?

user55340

8:51 PM

Blame caching.

twitch doesn't load either so it's not like all of Google is dead

@Ixrec in most jobs I've not been given the freedom to just do work; it's usually a "Do just this one thing or that one thing"- other work you do will be seen as suspect and a sign you didn't request your next phony task from your task masters (which more often than not in some jobs has been: "We'll get you on X once it's worked out, just hold tight until it's ready") - Most jobs I've worked a check-in that wasn't explicitly requested by an authority wouldn't be allowed

;_;

have I mentioned you guys always make me extremely happy that I have the job I do?

...and thus, SE was born.

yesterday, by Jimmy Hoffa

SE's entire business model relies on the fact that smart people want to do interesting things and their jobs don't let them; but SE gives them the opportunity.

8:54 PM

@Ixrec :) This job is actually way more freeing, but they actually don't have an enormous amount of work to do; especially not that would be beneficial

@Ixrec could it be a DNS issue? I remember seeing similar problems on a server I misconfigured.

@amon I actually tried changing to Google's DNS servers a minute ago, no change whatsoever

what the hey, let's see if Steam works

oh my god it works

welp, today Valve beats Google

@enderland wishful thinking, IME "yes" answers come fast and "no" answers are noted by their absolute silence. :/

I'm not even sure what the question is that supposedly hasn't gotten a yes or no yet

(removed)

7

9:09 PM

I'm not worried about that, it was fine, I basically told them then "I don't think that this is the next step for my career" type of thing (which I don't think it was, not sure, hindsight is 20-20 but still vtc: primarily opinion based)

@enderland Sometimes a call goes a lot further than an email in these sort of things

@Ampt yeah, I actually had a phone convo with the hiring manager at the time and talked about it

user55340

Michael, if my original question wasn’t clear, I’d say after the subsequent comments, it would be hard to argue I’m being so vague as to preclude any meaningful suggestions. Your reluctance to offer help is clear in your ad nauseam picking apart of the semantics. I’ve done a good amount of volunteering my expertise in the Mathematics Stack Exchange and would never be as difficult to a beginner as you’ve been; partly because I enjoy helping people, but also because what you’re doing reeks of ego and self-importance. If my post breaches your idea of an acceptable question, simply ignore it. — Paul Safier 1 min ago

user55340

Sigh.

Happy Coffee Day!

I walked past the initial Starbucks location from 1971 when the company started, and went to a much cooler and better coffee shop less than a block away

9:13 PM

user image

weird, I tried to vote to close that and saw that message

@enderland I beat you to it

@MichaelT lol, I wouldn't have expected a comment like that directed toward you. I'm as "noob" as a noob could be and you've been helpful to me in the past. This guy sounds like he needs a Snickers bar

user55340

You were #2.

user55340

You would have seen the "already voted to close"

oh snap, take that @Ampt

9:15 PM

> When it comes to technical subjects like programming, the vast majority of newcomers do not understand that it is impossible to answer a question that hasn't been asked properly. Until they gain the experience to understand that, there's simply no way to respond that doesn't run some risk of them perceiving us as lazy, unhelpful, rude or elitist

it never stops being true

@enderland I missed that, did you turn down an offer?

@AaronHall 3 years ago, yeah

oh, ok, this isn't current stuff.

@durron597 enjoying your onboarding? Move all done and setup?

has it rained yet?

9:16 PM

@JimmyHoffa First day is Monday. Movers get here with my stuff for new apartment tomorrow

I'm in temp housing right now

@durron597 ah. Getting the lay of the land? Seattle seem like a place you'll enjoy?

@JimmyHoffa He loves rain and coffee - it'll be right up his alley

@Ampt I want to just link that math.se guy to google.com/…

the second response I think answers his questions

@enderland odd, he doesn't have a math.se account?

@Ampt how does he feel about eyeball piercings and sidehawks?

9:20 PM

@JimmyHoffa Yeah I think so. I miss some things about Houston but overall I think I will like Seattle better.

it's promising you feel that way after a very short period of time, too

we sure do dislike change...

@durron597 like traffic that moved and that bright spot in the firmament above?

I was ready to move on with my job and there were plenty of things about my job I didn't like, but overall I was happy in Houston so it's a lot tougher than when I moved from New York; when I lived there I was miserable and couldn't wait to leave.

@enderland Don't you mean "has the sun come out yet?" to which I answer "yes, it just did"

I've been here 9 days and it's come out twice, I think ;)

@durron597 it's a Friday miracle!

So I thought I signed my offer letter almost a month ago at this point but actually they just sent me a link to e-sign it a few hours ago

9:22 PM

@durron597 wow, I honestly didn't think it was that bad up there, I figure people speak of it more hyperbolically; though it is the season right now..

I guess that last signature didn't count or something. Good thing they didn't change their mind

It is November.

@durron597 make sure what you e-sign is the same O_O

Yeah I did, it is.

is Washington an At-will state?

@durron597 irony: We just hired a Sr. Java person to work remotely...from Houston...

9:23 PM

Well, I didn't check it word for word but I did read it again.

@Ampt No idea? My contract is at will.

@Ampt can't imagine otherwise; Amazon wouldn't be there otherwise.

@durron597 typically contracts can't override jurisdictional law.

true true

@JimmyHoffa I assume this is the case but I don't know for sure.

that's why at-will is usually spoken of as a state thing, contracts can't dictate you aren't afforded the same level of privileges as the rest of the state

I think tonight I need to clean up my office and clean up some harddrive space

9:25 PM

No contract can override law

@Ampt unless the jurisdiction says otherwise

law is hard

@JimmyHoffa then it's not really overrideing

contracts are often allowed to override law, its just that the areas where it can do so are specifically described

user41796

@durron597 both

@Ampt hey, I'm curious to try this game-stream co-op thingy; you have time for a game tonight?

9:27 PM

what game?

@JimmyHoffa sure!

what were you thinking

not sure how it works or what not - I just want to see if this does work: geforce.com/geforce-experience/gfe-beta

I use the gamestream from my shield TV all the time and it works flawlessly; never tried across the internet, but the fact that it allows shared-control like that just sounds curious.

neat thing about it is it means others don't have to have the game

so I should update my graphics driverS?

wait, so I can help you play?

what?

I really don't know how the client piece works.

user55340

@daOnlyBG if he has math.se expectations, we have a very different site.

9:31 PM

@Ampt it renders on my machine (or yours if you have the ShadowPlay feature in kepler and newer nvidia chips) and streams

Basically nvidia put a framebuffer->compressed video hardware pipeline into their chips a while back known as "Shadow Play" and it works great on local network - and pretty well on the internet from their Geforce Now service on my shield TV; but the geforce co-op thing sounds the most curious

pcworld.com/article/2973481/software-games/…

@JimmyHoffa How far back? I've got a pair of 780 TIs. Never really investegated the remote play options

@Ampt en.wikipedia.org/wiki/… any chip with "GK" model name is kepler, "GM" is maxwell (newer), "GF" is fermi (doesn't have shadow play)

780 Ti is GK110-425-B1 so should do it

I never bothered looking at this stuff until I got the Shield TV, bought a 750Ti for it and it works flawlessly... only thing is not all games support controllers, but because it's hardware level I can use mouse/keyboard and run "mstsc" and it just gives me my whole desktop perfectly.

@GlenH7 aha

@JimmyHoffa iiiiinteresting!

I'm gonna have to give that a shot

yeah, lets try that tonight

provided the GF doesn't want to do something like see a movie

Speaking of "shot," how many people here actually drink scotch?

9:43 PM

@daOnlyBG You don't drink scotch?? where's that kick button?

SHAAAAAAAAAAAAAME

Why do you think I don't?

@daOnlyBG see, having somebody question your veracity isn't very nice is it?

I'm not questioning veracity, I'm asking how many people here drink scotch

@daOnlyBG I know @GlenH7 and @Ampt have enjoyed whiskey as do I. Not sure who else; @durron597 probably - professional gambler who doesn't like whiskey? Seems unlikely (and I think he's mentioned booze?)

9:48 PM

Very nice. I'm more of a Highland single malt guy myself. I hated alcohol before my family back in Syria got me into Johnnie Walker

Lightness Races in Orbit

3quarksdaily.com/3quarksdaily/2011/06/… isn't bad

user15026

@JimmyHoffa I've not really yet because the idea of buying stuff and figuring out what's tasty and what's not makes me wobble.

user15026

I don't want to like spend the money and then get something I hate.

That's why you go to bars 8-)

@JimmyHoffa Nope, I'm a craft beer man

user15026

9:51 PM

@durron597 Beer I know. It's anything not beer that my brain goes "uh. what do we even do here."

@durron597 any beer from the midwest, by chance?

Professional gamblers, in my experience, don't like to drink liquor when gambling because it impairs judgment too quickly; if they're going to drink at all, it's going to be beer. Away from the table, they're just like anyone else

@durron597 I've seen guys at the high stakes tables sipping scotch

but perhaps that's not enough to qualify them as "professional"

maybe just "rich"

@durron597 hoppy, sour, stout, or balanced?

@daOnlyBG I've drank a lot of different kinds of beer, they make it all over the country. Though my experience is that Southern California has a lot of amazing smaller breweries with national presence like Stone and Ballast Point

@JimmyHoffa I like lots of kinds of beer, but generally I drink IPAs these days, so I guess Hoppy?

9:54 PM

wired.com/2015/04/lost-spirits

^^ If I'm not mistaken, the age written on "aged" hard liquor bottles is pretty misleading

@daOnlyBG Actual professional gamblers don't try to take money from other professional gamblers, they try to take it from tourists. See: the scene at the Taj Mahal casino in Rounders. "All the luck in the world isn't gonna change things for these guys. They're simply overmatched. We're not playing together, but then again, we're not playing against each other either. It's like the Nature Channel. You don't see piranhas eating each other, do you?"

No, but you might see piranhas competing if the food is sparse

metaphor aside, I understand what you're getting at

@durron597 aye; you should enjoy the Seattle stuff then I think. California and the northwest are big on the hops.. Northwest is the only area other than Colorado you can get a good amber really, but not as common as they are here I believe

but wait- where did I say that actual professional gamblers take away from other professional gamblers?

9:57 PM

Amber/Red are the hoppiest I particularly care for but a good amber is quite good

@JimmyHoffa Bell's brewery in Michigan makes an awesome "amber ale." I'm not a big hopps guy but that ale is made just right and balanced

user55340

1

Q: How can we keep track of which version of our code is in each environment?

My team currently uses a fairly simple branching/deployment process that looks like this: ┌────────┐ ┌────┐ ┌──────┐ Environments: │ DEV │ │ QA │ │ PROD │ └────────┘ └────┘ └──────┘ ▲ ▲ ▲ │ │ ...

version-control git development-process deployment development-environment

@daOnlyBG When I was a professional live Limit Hold 'em player, my casino ran 20/40 every day and 40/80 when we could get enough people to play it. However, I didn't play 40/80 every time it ran. Why do you think that was?

user55340

I admit to voting up quickly because of the diagrams.

@daOnlyBG My point is that the high stakes games don't run without bad players to fill some of the seats.

10:02 PM

Oh. Sorry. I was referring to Black Jack.

I figured you might be referring to Poker

professional blackjack isn't gambling, it's acting.

.......that's a lot coming from a Poker player, lol

drinkhacker.com/2014/01/31/…

you can only beat the house at blackjack on a long term, consistent basis by getting the casino to think that you aren't good enough to have an edge.

the way you get an edge is by varying your bet size based on the remaining contents of the deck

@durron597 otherwise they kick you out?

10:03 PM

They can.

@JimmyHoffa exactly.

aye. Seems sensible.

Poker isn't that much different. You're just acting toward a different audience

@durron597 ever watch Boiler Room?

so, the trick to professional blackjack is to either 1) be a really good actor (one of my old poker friends was really good at this) to make them think that you're drunk and changing your bet size for other reasons

or 2) have multiple players to make it much more difficult for the casino to detect what you're doing

10:05 PM

I don't know why I never put that together until just now; but you're Giovanni Ribisi.. poker->finance. Great movie if you never seen it.

the problem with #2 is that the casino will still come to recognize names and faces and not let you play even without proof if they know you are consistent winners.

@JimmyHoffa you might enjoy "Margin Call"

@JimmyHoffa poker -> finance -> advertising

ok

user41796

@durron597 All career options related by the fact that you're trying to take money from others? :-P

10:08 PM

@GlenH7 at least poker players aren't lying about it.

no snake oil or soap box from them, just a how do you do and take your best shot

@GlenH7 Name a job that isn't?

@JimmyHoffa Oh please, poker is no different from pool hustling in that way

user41796

@durron597 programming for a non-profit charity?

I like to think many jobs are more about convincing others that you are worthy of being given money, than they are about simply taking money away from them

@Ixrec In that case, advertising doesn't fit.

@durron597 ? I agree; I was saying poker is nobler than finance because poker players aren't promising you a retirement plan that'll never materialize :P and I was being hyperbolic anywho

10:14 PM

I would argue advertising does neither of those things (usually)

@JimmyHoffa And I was saying that poker isn't particularly noble ;)

@durron597 how so? Just because it looks like you have a chance but against a pool hustler, you've none?

@Ixrec Advertising isn't about convincing others that you are worthy of being given money? I thought it was nothing but that ;)

you would think so, but most of it contains no attempts to convince

the bulk of ads I see seem to be more about "raising awareness" than about convincing anyone of anything

@JimmyHoffa The difference between a good poker player and one who's read a couple of poker books is that they know when to make "mistakes" to get action

10:16 PM

@durron597 I suppose that makes sense. Which raises a question- not to pry or denigrate but just curious, have you ever been taking money from folk at the table and felt bad about it?

most poker books say "play tight but aggressive, only play premium hands, blah blah"

the problem is, the vast majority of bad players are good enough to recognize "here's a guy who usually has a good hand when he plays"

perhaps you should write a better poker book

the key to winning a lot of money quickly in poker is to make people think you have nothing or are bluffing more often than you should be, and then show down a best hand. if you bet $70 and I raise $200 more, you make a lot more money if you get called and win than if you are bluffing and they fold.

@Ixrec I didn't say "all" poker books ;)

Like ever had someone walk away from the table with no money left only to go pick up their kid or somethin' and it bugged ya? I would imagine you just have to view it as business and besides it's them that chose to take the risk. Just wonder if it ever get's to professionals even though it's not their fault (if it wasn't them, it'd be someone else takin' the fellas money)

of course, some bad players are more manipulable than others. if you're playing at a table with 9 other guys that won't put in significant action without a big hand no matter what your table image is, you'll have to content yourself to bluffing often.

@JimmyHoffa I'm sure I played with true degenerates that couldn't afford it, but those people never advertised themselves as such.

more common was a guy like the doctor who, in january, budgeted $20,000 for the year as the amount he was willing to lose playing poker that year

10:23 PM

Sorry this is off topic and referring back to a topic from several hours ago, but God damn, the list of all these processors is a bit overwhelming. I'm not even sure which ones AMD offers for Brix, and whether any of those offer hyperthreading technology

@durron597 They're all about getting money, but not all are a zero (or less) sum game.

Part of the table you were at? Not where people played who shouldn't be?

@JimmyHoffa I'm not sure I understood your question, but I played with that particular guy many times.

user41796

@daOnlyBG Simplify the process by picking a dollar amount you're comfortable with spending on the processor. Then compare the intel and amd chips to see what you're getting. If you're unhappy with that, take a step up and down with both product lines to broaden the range of consideration.

^-- basically how I approach it. Budget first, then look at possibility

10:30 PM

Or post on hardware recommendations

10:42 PM

you guys are still debating what processor to buy?

just go to the store and buy whichever intel processor is closest to $250

done

Nah... no more debate, just a mini rant over first world problems, like having too many options

10:53 PM

So... the Intel website says that "Thermal Design Power (TDP) represents the average power, in watts, the processor dissipates when operating at Base Frequency with all cores active under an Intel-defined, high-complexity workload. Refer to Datasheet for thermal solution requirements."

does that imply that the processor also uses the same amount of average power it dissipates?

(i.e., one would want as low of a TDP as possible?)

pretty much 100% of the power a processor uses is dissipated as heat

« first day (1890 days earlier) ← previous day next day → last day (3094 days later) »

Transcript for

Nov '156

The Whiteboard

General Discussion for softwareengineering.stackexchange.com P...

coffee-day horror-stories monads my-code-is-compiling scotch the-other-monitor

join this room
about this room

00:00

06:00

12:00

18:00

all times are UTC

site design / logo © 2024 Stack Exchange Inc; legal

mobile