The Whiteboard

12:01 AM

@enderland stock standard for folks with lots of years on the MS stack - visual studio has always leaned on the white background and that's what most all of us use

I use solarized theme, but even in visual studio I have to stick with the solarized light them just because it's too weird looking at visual studio/.NET in black. It just doesn't feel right.

in emacs I use solarized dark which is where I do everything that's not C#

The only people I've seen use a dark background in visual studio haven't been on the MS stack for years

enderland

@JimmyHoffa huh, weird

Jimmy Hoffa

Just what we're used to. I just always have my brightness at 15-20 and contrast around 40 on every monitor so it doesn't matter

Don't know how anybody could do it with a full-bright monitor

whatsisname

i tried using flux awhile ago but it would just suddenly switch instead of gradually and that would annoy me too much

I almost never change my IDE color settings, though I will do font size

Robert Harvey

@Ixrec I'm a big fan of simple tools.

If it's too complicated, it means someone didn't do enough pruning of concepts.

Ixrec

exactly, every time I try to learn a tool that isn't immediately obvious (how to do the most basic/critical things I mean), it never ends up being useful no matter how much time I put into it

at least git feels simple after you learn it, it just has way too many gotchas and bad defaults

whatsisname

12:11 AM

simple is good, but some things are by their nature pretty complex

a lot of cad softwares I use are pretty complicated/not obvious when you are just starting out

but once you understand the way things work inside, you can get a lot of good work done

Ixrec

perhaps "tool" was overly broad

with something like a programming language obviously you have to put in more than a few minutes to really learn what it's good at and how to do useful things with it

Jimmy Hoffa

All development/engineering is very complicated/not obvious when you are just starting out. This is why people learn something well and then proclaim all similar things they don't understand are done poorly; nine times out of ten it's because they haven't learned that thing enough to realize similar /= same

Ixrec

this is why I like reading about programming languages I'm never going to use, helps keep me from getting tunnel vision on my current toolchain

e.g. I read about half of Effective Java today

Robert Harvey

Agh. Books put me to sleep.

Ixrec

apparently you have to be very, very afraid of creating too many objects in that language

eh, I'm weird, I like reading technical stuff

Robert Harvey

12:16 AM

Half the world's objects are created in Java.

Ixrec

I still don't get why the core language implementation needs an integer cache

Robert Harvey

Probably to make small loops very fast. The integer cache only goes up to 128 signed, I think.

Ixrec

that's what I remember from various SE answers

Robert Harvey

C# doesn't have the same problem because integers are primitive types.

Ixrec

it just feels so wrong that you have to cache integers to speed up tight loops on integers

that sounds like something you'd do in Javascript because Javascript doesn't have integers

Robert Harvey

12:20 AM

It results in terrible outcomes like this one:

Integer a = 1000, b = 1000;
System.out.println(a == b); // false
Integer c = 100, d = 100;
System.out.println(c == d); // true

Ixrec

lemme guess, a.compareTo(b) return true?

Robert Harvey

That would be my guess as well.

That language feature is just far too exotic for my taste.

Ixrec

I should read Effective C# after this and see how it handles all of these issues

Robert Harvey

int is a primitive type in C#.

Ixrec

yeah, it feels like Java has its design flaws right at the core of Object itself, while in C++ the design flaws exist where two features come into contact with each other

like, Cloneable

wtf were they smoking when they came up with that one

enderland

12:24 AM

Robert Harvey

@enderland Ah, that explains everything.

Ixrec

indeed

Robert Harvey

I need a technique in C# where I can write code that defines some business rules.

Ixrec

for those not familiar with Cloneable, here's a quote from the book that should have you saying "wtf" as well:

> The Cloneable interface was intended as a mixin interface (Item 18) for objects to
advertise that they permit cloning. Unfortunately, it fails to serve this purpose. Its
primary flaw is that it lacks a clone method, and Object’s clone method is protected.
You cannot, without resorting to reflection (Item 53), invoke the clone
method on an object merely because it implements Cloneable. Even a reflective
invocation may fail, as there is no guarantee that the object has an accessible
clone method. Despite this flaw and others, the facility is in wide use so it pays to

Robert Harvey

Right now the engine that does this is driven by database records that define a fetcher on the left hand side, a fetcher on the right hand side, and a comparator.

Ixrec

12:26 AM

@RobertHarvey that sounds like the start of a really bad main site question =)

Robert Harvey

There are three corresponding factories for the fetcher and comparator objects.

Ixrec

brb

Robert Harvey

But you can define rules like "Any of (ComparatorA.Equals(a,b), ComparatorB.Equals(c,d)...)"

Actually, I think I'm describing Linq.

Linq to Business Rules.

Aaron Hall

The Python Datamodel: When and how to write objects

@Ixrec see above ^^^

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ixrec marker interfaces...yuck. Some people like them, I find them pretty bleh.

@RobertHarvey define a uniform outcome for business rules; Either says Either this or that and is oft used for this is some failure message (like exception) and that is the output result. Maybe you need more branches than two; think about the possible number of outcomes for your business rules that could be uniformly universal given your domain and then you can come up with a way of writing individual rules that take an input and return a value in that uniform type

Robert Harvey

12:42 AM

@JimmyHoffa Now that I think about it, I think the Workflow Designer already supports this.

Jimmy Hoffa

And then try and implement all the individual business rules - small small versions of them that take an input of X and result in that uniform thing. Then you can start figuring out how to go from that uniform result to the X necessary to input for the next business rule

@RobertHarvey likely; the system you've been talking about recently does sound like it's intended for precisely this type of thing

Jimmy Hoffa

1:01 AM

i.imgur.com/FcZG3N9.gifv

user55340

@GlenH7 about the "what license to use to annoy RMS" - gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2014-01/msg00247.html

user55340

Or if you want a philosophy piece about Free Software vs Open Source: gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html

user55340

> The only code that helps us and not our adversaries is copylefted
code. Free software released under a pushover license is available
for us to use, but available to our adversaries just as well. If you
want your work to give freedom an advantage, use the leverage
available to you -- copyleft your code. I invite those working on
major add-ons to LLVM to release them under GNU GPL
version-3-or-later.

user55340

Poke about gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2014-01/threads.html#00210 and related threads - Eric Raymond has some interesting bits in there too on the subject.

user55340

1:17 AM

Another thread with some fun about licenses in it: lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-02/msg00274.html

user55340

One of the interesting bits that came out in there was when Chris Lattner (at that time, with an email address of at uiuc.edu) offered to merge the LLVM code into gcc and assign copyrights... which was rebuffed for some reason. Now Chris's address is 'at apple.com' and RMS won't even think of working with them.

user55340

gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2006-03/msg00706.html

Robert Harvey

Meh. GPL is a pain in the ass.

user55340

@RobertHarvey Yes it is. There's an interesting philosophy in there, but when it gets fanatics... its a mess.

user55340

> > The LLVM source repository includes a patch adding basic lldb support to
gud.el.

It looks like there is a systematic effort to attack GNU packages.
The GNU Project needs to respond strategically, which means not by
having each GNU package cooperate with each attack. For now, please
do NOT install this change.

--
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation

Ixrec

1:34 AM

I also find the philosophy interesting, but in practice it just creates headaches because I want a simple permissive license on my stuff and that means anything GPL'd is out, and anything LGPL'd...may or may not be out

user55340

@Ixrec and the AGPL? I won't touch that with a 10 foot pole.

Ixrec

haven't encountered that as often, but yeah, that too

user55340

iText. itextpdf.com

user55340

Want to do things with pdf? You'll encounter it.

user55340

The flip side of the iText fun is people forked the old version that was GPL licensed and iText is trying to keep that fork hush.

user55340

1:36 AM

181

Q: Must using Stack Overflow tags be approved by the name rights holders?

I asked this question related to iText. One of the rights holders (as I suppose) removed the itext tag. The first comment on my question, by Bruno Lowagie, was this: I have removed the iText tag because: XDocReport is NOT endorsed by iText Group. You are using iText 4.2 which is a version t...

Ixrec

the forks still have to be GPL'd, right?

user55340

Yep.

user55340

But because its GPL someone can use that version in a web application without releasing the web app source.

user55340

So iText went AGPL so that they can extract licensing fees from anyone who wants to write a web app too.

user55340

For additional fun, take a look at revisions 2 and 3: stackoverflow.com/posts/23741982/revisions

Robert Harvey

2:07 AM

Companies are so funny. They think they can do anything they want if they feel they've been wronged. In that way, they're not all that different from ordinary people.

user55340

@RobertHarvey mvnrepository.com/artifact/com.lowagie/itext

user55340

You can see how many projects are using each version. There's a noticeable bump at 2.1.7 (released in 2009) which has almost as many projects as the new version: mvnrepository.com/artifact/com.itextpdf/itextpdf

user55340

4.4.2 was when it switch to AGPL.

amon

9:16 AM

@Ixrec Read about the flyweight pattern. Also note that java.lang.Integer is not a zero-cost abstraction that it'd be in C++, but a fully fledged java.lang.Object with vtable, GC overhead, and a mutex(!). In practice, Integer is only used for generics (which can't use primitives), or where you'd want a nullable int. Since small ints are used most often, caching Integers avoids idiotic allocations and reduces GC pressure.

ratchet freak

9:32 AM

@amon though Integer.valueOf will cache the ints for -128 to 127

user114359

11:47 AM

HAPPY ~~FRIDAY~~ COFFEEDAY, WHITEBOARD!

user114359

12:22 PM

0

Q: How strong must a tornado be to pick up a shark?

Yes, you know where this is going. There is a good article on this topic by National Geographic: 'Sharknado' Got One Thing Right: Aquatic Animals Sometimes Do Fall From the Sky One of the first claims the article makes is this: In real life, of course, sharks don’t fall from the sky. But fi...

forces weather

user114359

HNQ clickbait, amiright?

Thomas Owens

12:41 PM

I can never decide who to go to first when I need approvals from 2 people to do something. I always struggle with that decision.

For example, someone gave me a proposal for a recommendation on how to structure requirements in a way I've never seen before. I need to get a yes from the Software Engineering lead and the Systems Engineering responsible for requirements development and management processes and procedures.

user114359

@ThomasOwens Call a meeting with both of them

Thomas Owens

@Snowman I'm going to go to their offices. I need them each for a total of 5 minutes, to look at a paper (one sheet, front and back) and tell me if it is acceptable as a recommended practice.

A meeting is overkill 9000 nuke from orbit.

Jimmy Hoffa

1:38 PM

Happy Coffee Day

@ThomasOwens depends on your goal; don't like it? Go to the one most likely to reject it first so you have his backing when you go to the one most likely to pass it. Want it implemented? Go to the one most likely to pass it first so you have his backing. Want it honestly looked at with an objective critical eye? Go to the one most analytical or most likely to reject it first so he's not swayed by another's bias when he see's it.

Thomas Owens

@JimmyHoffa I usually try to follow a similar approach. But that seems like so much effort. But maybe it's the right thing to do.

Jimmy Hoffa

1:52 PM

@ThomasOwens either you use some basic semblance of weighting like that to make the decision or you flip a coin, it likely matters little but I figure at least putting some small bit of thought into it makes me feel like I tried to accomplish my goal

@GlenH7 Scotch'o'Th'Mornin' to ya

2

enderland

2:09 PM

TGIF

user55340

@ratchetfreak IIRC, in Java 7, it is can be specified as a jvm arg.

user41796

@JimmyHoffa You have no idea...

user41796

@MichaelT - I laughed at the opening part of RMS' email.

user41796

And while I don't always agree with RMS, I do appreciate the idealism that he's the vanguard for. And I'm glad he continues to push on that front.

user114359

2:26 PM

@GlenH7 What email is this? I could use good old-fashioned crack-pottery this morning.

user41796

13 hours ago, by MichaelT

@GlenH7 about the "what license to use to annoy RMS" - https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2014-01/msg00247.html

Thomas Owens

Does Stallman actually live in Boston?

>_>

I mean, could I be walking around one day and see him? o_o

I guess so. Wikipedia says he lives in Cambridge, not far from MIT.

user114359

@ThomasOwens Last I heard that was accurate. I don't think he has a car either, so you could probably see him on the T

Thomas Owens

@Snowman Are you sure? I don't think the T is open source.

He would never use it.

Or free. Or whatever he promotes.

user55340

@GlenH7 there is a post from Eric Stallman about the GPL philosophy getting in the way of technology.

user41796

2:37 PM

Who is Eric Stallman?

user55340

And that the strict adherence to the philosophy (frequent in the gcc developers) is causing problems for emacs interoperability (where it is best tool for the job)

user55340

@GlenH7 he wrote emacs.

user55340

Eric Raymond.

user55340

Meh. Brain. Dead. Coffee.

user41796

This makes more sense

user114359

2:40 PM

@ThomasOwens No, but he's a socialist who would rather share a train than own a car

user55340

False positives and hash collisions in the Name cache of my brain.

user41796

Coffee, tea, or latte. Can't decide.

enderland

yes

user55340

lwn.net/Articles/582242

Thomas Owens

Goodbye, Sikorsky!

user55340

2:50 PM

gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2014-01/msg00209.html

Thomas Owens

money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/prnewswire/NE50332.htm

user55340

gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2014-01/msg00176.html And gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2014-01/msg00214.html are also good reads.

enderland

awww. drop comprehensive coverage on cars, get a windshield chip that's now pricey to fix. :(

Thomas Owens

@enderland Why would you not have glass coverage?

Even when I get a lower-end insurance coverage, I always get the glass coverage. I went through three windshelds on my last car, and had two other repairs.

enderland

@ThomasOwens I don't think my insurance company has a specific glass coverage policy

its liability, comprehensive, collision

Thomas Owens

2:55 PM

Oh. It's an add-on package for me, I think.

enderland

each of our vehicles is like $2-3k value and our collision/comprehensive was ~$200/year for a $1k deductible

Thomas Owens

Oh. That's insane.

You should look at other companies.

enderland

our liability is reasonable priced, but not collision/comp

Thomas Owens

Does your state not require those coverages?

Massachusetts requires a certain amount of liability and collision coverages.

And so does New York. New Hampshire didn't when I lived there, but I still had it.

enderland

liability yes, not collision though (we have property damage liability too)

Jimmy Hoffa

3:02 PM

@ThomasOwens beards and odors are I think his main promotions

enderland

I just scheduled a repair for $40+tax

user114359

@enderland Did you know that 15 minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance?

enderland

@Snowman LOL

Jimmy Hoffa

@ThomasOwens they don't much offer glass coverage in Colorado - on account of every wind shield here getting starred every 9 months, and stars taking ~3 months to become huge cracks.

enderland

geiko could save me a small amount now, but they don't have the liabilities that I currently do (plus everything we have insurance wise is through same company)

user114359

3:08 PM

Sigh. Really? cd /../../ ...when I'm about 20 directories deep and don't want to go to /

user114359

Now where was I...?

Jimmy Hoffa

State's dusty as hell from the dry climate + Gravel is laid on snow for traction in winters + Temperature swings 40-50 degrees a day causes expansion/contraction to grow the cracks

I've been driving through a snow storm in the mountains and literally watched as a crack just slowly grew along the windshield from 1" to about 2' because the cold outside blasting the windshield causing it to contract.

enderland

our insurance is reasonably cheap anyways, $470/year for two vehicles and very high coverage amounts

user114359

I really want to answer this LH question but not sure how my answer would go over

user114359

1

Q: Best way to know if somebody has broken into my room without camera

I will be on leave so as a precaution I want to see if somebody has entered my room with the door being locked from outside. thanks

home locks

Thomas Owens

3:16 PM

So, I really want to learn web development, but I need some kind of structured thing to work on. Anyone have any suggestions to something that is free, but provides some kind of structure to learn web development? Honestly, I find that to be a huge problem. The "tutorials" for things are good, but I need something...more...to be able to learn and understand technology X.

@Snowman What's your asnwer?

user114359

"set up a sledge hammer trap like in Nightmare on Elm Street, then use the window to exit and enter so you don't set off the trap"

Thomas Owens

@Snowman Expected an explosive or firearm related trap/10.

user114359

Booby traps tend to be illegal, and I imagine SE probably has a policy about not advocating violence. Then again, it is life hacks...

Thomas Owens

I bet you could do something with a Raspberry Pi these days.

user55340

3:20 PM

@Snowman spread flour on the floor.

user55340

Btw, @RobertHarvey I was out of close votes an hour ago. (To the you were surprised people run out of them a bit ago)

user55340

Two are on deleted posts.

Ampt

Renewed my intellij license for 2 years for 90 bucks. not bad.

user114359

I went with option 2, which was also Thomas' idea

user114359

1

A: Best way to know if somebody has broken into my room without camera

Install door sensors. These work similar to the ones on a garage door, but you can buy them for interior man-doors. Some of them are very inconspicuous. Wire it up to a Raspberry Pi or another device that can record when the door was opened and save it to a log. There may even be ready-made prod...

Thomas Owens

3:26 PM

Hmm. I don't get why there aren't free "course outlines" for learning programming languages or frameworks. Or are there and I just don't know how to find them?

Ampt

usually you can find actual university course outlines on the internet

pages.cs.wisc.edu/~cs240-2

20 seconds of googling :)

pick the university of your choice, enter the program, choose a class, look for the syllabus

cs.wisc.edu/courses/list

theres the UW Madison Comp-sci course list

Ugh, it's crazy how much of this is just sitting out for anyone. Sure, you don't get the lectures, but you buy the book, you can use their homework problems, even mock exams for free

Thomas Owens

I haven't looked at those two, but they don't have project descriptions. That's what I need - something designed to teach specific concepts, but complex enough to hold my interest.

Ampt

pages.cs.wisc.edu/~shavlik/cs540.html#requirements

Theres an advanced AI course for example

you get all the lecture notes, homework problems, and even previous years exams

Thomas Owens

I would also feel weird about putting content that maps to a course on GitHub.

At least a university course.

Ampt

@ThomasOwens Why? They have made it available free, online. MIT does this on purpose

most teachers have no problem if you even show up and audit the course for free

what you're paying for when you enroll at college is the right to have the teacher grade your work and vouch for it in the form of a diploma

Thomas Owens

3:33 PM

That's weird to me. But if it's acceptable, it'll probably help me find more content.

enderland

most teachers would actually love it if some random dude on the internet was using their material

Ampt

@enderland Seriously, this. I bet they would even answer your emails so long as you're not annoying about it

@ThomasOwens Here, this course material, set up by MIT is designed around exactly what you're looking for

Free, online, interesting courses.

Thomas Owens

I'll have to dig deeper. This is much nicer to browse than last time I looked at OCW.

Last time, I found it hard to find content that I wante.d

Ampt

they've really invested in the concept

they are even letting you pay to show up and take an exam to get credits for the course, if you enroll at MIT

which is a first for anyone in the field

Jimmy Hoffa

@Snowman simple flour on the floor in front of the door; can't be opened without brushing the flour about.

Thomas Owens

3:37 PM

@Ampt brb reading about that.

Ampt

read: brb, enrolling at MIT

hahaha

Thomas Owens

I want to find the limitations on those. I bet I could use training budget money to take the exams.

But I don't want to enroll at MIT right now.

user114359

@JimmyHoffa Not enough electronics involved.

Thomas Owens

I can't find anything about this taking test stuff on their site.

enderland

@RobertHarvey Come on, I'm not asking you to teach me anything, I'm merly asking you to point me in the right direction. Like, if someone asks you how to style a website, would you just think "Naah, to complicated to simply mention 'You can use CSS'". — Vallentin 2 mins ago

Jimmy Hoffa

3:39 PM

@Snowman actually it is a touch tricky when you realize the trap has to be set after the door is closed

Ampt

@ThomasOwens Let me look. I could have sworn this was all over the news a month or two ago

user114359

@JimmyHoffa depends on how close to the floor the door is. Most doors do not scrape the floor. Interior doors typically have a small gap, and exterior doors have to clear the weather stripping/jamb assembly

Robert Harvey

@Snowman weather.com/storms/tornado/news/enhanced-fujita-scale-20130206

Are you trying to figure out whether a tornado shark opens your door while you are gone?

Jimmy Hoffa

@Snowman flour doesn't need scraping, the air will blow it. but you can't pour it after the door is closed so...

0

A: Best way to know if somebody has broken into my room without camera

As you're shutting the door, get it as closed as you can while still reaching your arm in, and set something on the floor (solo/dixie cup, nut, anything that will move easily when pushed by the door) right by the door. When you come back and open the door, check to see if you're pushing it or if...

user114359

@RobertHarvey I have seen several articles stating that a Sharknado cannot happen: clearly, tornadoes have picked up much larger objects than sharks, so what gives?

user114359

3:44 PM

I know waterspouts tend not to be as strong as land-tornadoes, but they should be able to pick up sharks swimming near the surface Jaws-style.

user114359

3

Q: How strong must a tornado be to pick up a shark?

Yes, you know where this is going. There is a good article on this topic by National Geographic: 'Sharknado' Got One Thing Right: Aquatic Animals Sometimes Do Fall From the Sky One of the first claims the article makes is this: In real life, of course, sharks don’t fall from the sky. But fi...

forces weather

Robert Harvey

My uneducated guess is that sharks won't swim near the surface during a tornado.

Ampt

@ThomasOwens edx.org

maybe this is what they were talking about

Jimmy Hoffa

@Snowman perhaps it depends on your meaning of sharknado? tornado's don't really "pick stuff up" so much as "jerk shit into an arch" I believe. When you hear about roofs and things being torn up, the tornado didn't pick it up and hold it in air, it just gave it a yank and the roof flew off to some distant ground spot where it lands like it was lobbed. If a waterspout picked up a shark it would just lob it into the ocean somewher else. Also sharks can swim away from shit like that

user114359

@JimmyHoffa I am fine with a Sharktapult too. The physics would be similar, I believe.

Thomas Owens

3:46 PM

@Ampt Perhaps. But there's more self-paced things there. I seem to remember it being more course-oriented.

enderland

@Ampt "Finally, someone who is actually interested in learning the material and not just passing my class!"

this needs a change of background color: programmers.stackexchange.com/q/301939/52929

user41796

needs 1 more

Aaron Hall

4:03 PM

Hello everyone. What's up?

enderland

@amon I love reading your answers

Lightness Races in Orbit

@AaronHall Happy belated birthday!

user55340

@Ampt you also get a perpetual license for any software you've had a license to for a year.

Thomas Owens

I'm still upset there's no good way to (that I can see, due to SE's lack of granular RSS feeds) to automatically tweet answers that I post.

Obligatory link to Meta.SE feature request

user41796

@ThomasOwens There's the web project you're looking for

Thomas Owens

4:08 PM

@GlenH7 I'm debating using the SE API to fix my problem.

user41796

It's easy enough to scrape your answers (sorted by newest) user profile tab

Aaron Hall

@LightnessRacesinOrbit You're about a month late, but thanks! :)

Thomas Owens

Not even that. I know how many requests I can make per day. I can just generate a feed.

Although it very quickly breaks down if you post a lot of answers. Although is that a problem? If I poll the API every 15 minutes, I would generate 0...* feed items every 15 minutes. If 5 items were added to the feed, 5 tweets would go out.

But that's how Twitter works, yes?

Lightness Races in Orbit

4:21 PM

@AaronHall I said belated!

Thomas Owens

Hmm. It looks like I can make like 10 requests per minute.

But it's cached, so one request of each type per minute.

Yeah, this could work.

Jimmy Hoffa

@Snowman who wouldn't be fine with a sharktapult? I think this is a spectacular idea. @GlenH7 you're an engineer, I think you should be working on this post-haste!

user55340

Gerbil-net! Using habitrail. Wifi via those yellow balls!

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland @Snowman

0

A: Best way to know if somebody has broken into my room without camera

Nail the door shut, if the nails are removed when you get back, somebody has been inside.

user114359

@JimmyHoffa only if they have friggin' laser beams on their heads

Jimmy Hoffa

4:29 PM

@Snowman amazon.com/Kendall-Wet-Pruf-Waterproof-Tape-Roll/dp/B000O0ACG8

@Snowman amazon.com/Love-Creatures-Interactive-Pointer-Chaser/dp/…

user41796

@Snowman I think you mean something like this? thinkgeek.com/product/f2eb

Jimmy Hoffa

=

enderland

lol

you know it's friday when...

daOnlyBG

Good morning everyone

user41796

@daOnlyBG Happy scotch day, yes.

daOnlyBG

4:32 PM

I just brewed a cup of coffee, and thought about this chatroom immediately

2

Jimmy Hoffa

Ampt

but I get in trouble for posting flashy gifs :P

enderland

I wonder how many cat memes have been generated over the past 20 years

Ampt

@enderland exactly the same amount as over the past 5 years

user114359

Googol

A googol is the large number 10100. In decimal notation, it is written as the digit 1 followed by one hundred 0s: 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000. The term was coined in 1920 by 9-year-old Milton Sirotta (1911–1981), nephew of American mathematician Edward Kasner. Kasner popularized the concept in his 1940 book Mathematics and the Imagination. Other names for googol include ten duotrigintillion on the short scale, ten thousand sexdecillion on the long scale, or ten sexdecilliard on the Peletier long scale. == SizeEdit == A googol...

user41796

4:34 PM

@Ampt sed s/I get/everyone gets/

Ampt

@GlenH7 but I'm a special snowflake. Duh.

enderland

animated gifs are bad and you should feel bad for posting them. bad bad bad!

user41796

@Snowman Off by a few orders of magnitude, I'm afraid. Your estimate is just way too low.

user41796

preemptive declaration that animated gifs may be deleted immediately after posting

Ampt

I think I just had a seizure

enderland

4:35 PM

aww jimmy deleted that before I got to. :(

Ampt

I'm not sure, I don't remember

Aaron Hall

Yay for adblock's picture blocking...

user41796

@enderland You mean before you could kick him?

Ampt

@AaronHall fridays around here must be really boring for you

Aaron Hall

yeah, just trying to build up the gumption to submit another permissions change.

We compile a bunch of prolog files that contain all our permissioning.

Jimmy Hoffa

4:40 PM

@AaronHall that is a cool use of prolog

Aaron Hall

It's a small Python shop. tongue cramps in cheek

We have 3000 Python devs.

Jimmy Hoffa

I would never think of a place like that having so much Python... I've worked various such places in .NET but even that is seen in such places I've been as a bit futurey and untrustworthy

Aaron Hall

The compiled permissions are used by oodb rings and grid hosts. on the db's, they usually apply to read, readmeta, create, and modify perms

if you don't have read on a path to an object, you need readmeta just to know it's there, so read errors tell you it either doesn't exist or you don't have the rights to see it.

It's really progressive technology.

I have no view on that stuff. I'm just in architecture

Jimmy Hoffa

@AaronHall using a rules engine language for rules, imagine that. Meanwhile people are constantly creating pseudo rules engines in other languages that are all effectively NCube messes with umpteen special cases

Aaron Hall

each db has a manifest, the manifest reads in an actions file, a file (delegated to other files) that states what roles exist and which roles subset other roles, membership (where people are put in roles by ID or their boss), policies, with can_do's and dont_propagate's that apply to the role, state the perms being granted or blocked, and the resource (like a file path, applies to all points below it unless another rule blocks), and... I think that's it.

So you can be in a role for one db, and not in that role for another db.

we make that a semantic difference only for code approvals for the most part.

daOnlyBG

4:55 PM

Speaking of .NET- what's everyone's outlook for C#? I know it's a speculative question, hence why I'm asking it on this chat (and not on the Q&A section); do most programmers see its place in the industry pretty solidified for the next 10-15 years? Worse or better?

enderland

M$

Jimmy Hoffa

@daOnlyBG I just hope to see it gone in the next 10 years, but don't know what the chances are...

psr

@JimmyHoffa Such as prolog, or T-SQL.

user41796

@JimmyHoffa better odds of winning the powerball than C# going away any time soon

Thomas Owens

@JimmyHoffa Why do you hate C#?

Aaron Hall

4:57 PM

The way to get rid of it is to use architectures that don't support it.

daOnlyBG

@JimmyHoffa why the dislike? Too monotonous for you?

user41796

IMO, .NET and C# are firmly entrenched in the industry and aren't going anywhere in the next 10 years. The only thing that would get rid of it is MS releasing the next successor to the .NET framework.

daOnlyBG

(I see from your profile that you're a very experienced C# user)

(*C# programmer)

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 away is a strong term. I would say reduced new creation to a small minority; perhaps 10-20% of the new development done in it today would be my goal because that would leave a large hole to be filled by hopefully better languages

Telastyn

I also hope it is replaced by something better by then.

akin to scala/java

user41796

4:59 PM

@Telastyn F# has yet to gain any real traction with .NET development. So I don't think that a (truly) functional approach is likely to occur

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