@GlenH7 keypass anyone?

anyone use Jira extensively at work? Starting to set up our tickets, and am having trouble getting them organized how I want in the hierarchy

I can add stories to epics, which is handy, but can't add tasks to stories?

I can add sub-tasks, but those don't show in the issues list (which is dumb)

too many names in my API, need more namespacing

@Ampt oh gods shutup now, you're giving me flashbacks to the weekly bitching and moaning at Employer^

just write that shit on a sticky note and let other people deal with the train wreck that is technology-enforced-process

Technology enforced SDLC is the endlessly terrible idea. Endless because it won't die, no matter how terrible it is and continues to be across every damned company that tries it.

At absolute best, you'll get results out of your SDLC as well as if there was no technological constraints on it, the vast majority of the time though you get results considerably worse as everybody trips over the technology constraints time and time and time again

@JimmyHoffa yes, but this technology allows my ass to check my tasks from my comfy chair at home in my pajamas instead of having to come to my desk, which is priceless

Although there was a thought at employer^ that we should have an always on webcam showing the story board w/ post it notes so you didn't have to walk across the building to see stuff. Real downside was the inability to move or update stuff remotely.

@Ampt won't be worth it. Your struggles with it's disagreement with doing basic things will make you wish otherwise.

@Ampt you can update stuff, just put a sticky note on your monitor over the sticky note feed

@JimmyHoffa unless it costs me an hour and a half a day.....

@Ampt hell to that, just get a sharpy and write your tasks on your arm

@JimmyHoffa Still need a SYNC in there somewhere

points to head

it made me dumber...every day...which is quite a feat!

@JimmyHoffa It's alright, we'll lock him up for a long long time.

then he'll escape due to a bug in the stupid robot overlords we put in the prison

No Styx? Not close enough to friday?

this week can end now as far as I'm concerned

most frustrating week of the year to date. :(

@enderland while (unhappy) { scotch.drink(); }

should only loop 2-3 times really

that's an infinite loop that might end very poorly

:P

nah, scotch.drink() has a chance to set unhappy every loop

the chances increase with each subsequent run, but it's a random interval

maybe the reason you are unhappy is that the unhappy variable is like a global variable? :P

oh it's definitely global. Devs thought that it would be a great idea to have it affect every subprocess running, which others have put down as an awful idea

I really don't want to do any of the work that's assigned to me right now

lol

@ThomasOwens that's why I just created all the tickets with the assignee set to unassigned.

guess I'm done for the day!

@Ampt it should throw a DroppedGlassException before anything really bad happens...hopefully..

@JimmyHoffa depends on which version of the library you have - some of them don't have any exceptions, they just eventually crash the whole system

@Ampt 4 days and you're already devising strategies to avoid doing dev work

Some implementations like that are even recursive.

@JimmyHoffa Ah yes, time for the daily update

Day 4: The Developers appear to be negotiating with the Designers over some sacred artifacts that the devs require for their rituals. The Designers possess a "Screen Comps" and some magical "CSS" which deeply troubles the devs. I've tried to discreetly inquire about the nature of these artifacts, but the devs apparently don't know themselves. I need to explore this symbiotic relationship further if I'm to keep my cover.

Gah that one sucks. I'll do better tomorrow.

I had to google "screen comps"

You should always strive to improve.

where I work it's always "wireframes"

@Ixrec mockups where I've been

@Ixrec wireframes imply prototyping - these are full color, pixel perfect representations.

meant to be used to create the final site

ah

How I feel a majority of the time when I'm writing code:

we call those "mockups", lol

mockups are by design not intended to be final designs, but initial representations to get user feedback, do UX testing, etc

It works better when I do it right after I experience something I can write about

especially wireframing

@GlenH7 I am making websites

@enderland now that you mention it, we probably are misusing that term

oh well

mockup is a bit more general than wireframe

in practice our mockups/screen comps don't do that much because the pixel perfect stuff is all controlled by the infrastructure team that owns all the CSS, I think we only get them because the VX people find that easier than telling us what infrastructure-provided styles we're supposed to be using

How about calling them "screens" and referring to the amount of fidelity that a screen has?

it's also probably still a prototype 5 years later

@enderland only when the original engineer is touching it; otherwise the maintenance engineer is touching it and maintenance demands SDLC. Moral of the story, proclaim everything you do a prototype.

until the deadline, and then it's "done" and you've moved on to something else

Wouldn't I just be a model colleague? :)

I not only declare everything to be a prototype, I declare everything to be a throwaway prototype. Every version, you start from scratch.

It's an architectural proof of concept.

It's a whosit, a whatsit. A gizmo. A child's plaything.

why GC's maintain a separate heap for large objects:

Am I glad the NetNanny blocked that image?

@GlenH7 neiiigh, pretty benign

@AaronHall it was NSFH.

Well, I for one prefer fewer images popping up on my large 2nd monitor as I sit here at work with my open floorplan and all.

am I the only one that joins these chat rooms when I'm at home, rather than at work?

@AaronHall yeah, Employer^ was open floor plan, it can be troubling

at work I'm actually doing work so there's no time for this sort of thing

@Ixrec no, given how often people chat in it on non-working hours

@Ixrec Yes, actually. You are. Look at the hours of P.SE usage - overall site, whiteboard as well.

I'm a knowledge worker, so I need to consult with my architectural committee from time to time.

NetNanny blocked it.

Adult Humor

lol

"Adult Humor"? never seen that category in my blockers

agreed that it's accurate

This website is categorized as: <Adult/Mature Content;Humor/Jokes>

"...BLOCKED this website because it has certain security risks."

Yeah, this should be more like IRC.

/me agrees

@AaronHall it would embed in emacs then which would be pleasant

I really need to go through and get this setup

yeah... erc /join #whiteboard

I should write my own frontend for chat.se

I'd scrape out <img> tags for one.

@AaronHall please do. I've pondered the same... it uses websockets and the auth is the real thing that get's in the way

@MichaelT imbed?

imbued

in bed

I knew some lawyers who liked to say that they're embedded with some financial planners (insurance salesmen). I'd repeat it back to them, changing the m to an n and removing the 'ed'. They didn't like that.

@GlenH7: so make a half-baked copy of irssi

man its been a busy last few days for me

got out a side-job I was working on, as well as my first mac program ugh

@whatsisname ugh? Objective-C wasn't your favorite?

no

While I'm starting to get the hang of it, it is somewhat redeeming that you can just paste in c++ code and it works for the most part

though what makes me rage more than anything obj-c related is the nonsensical mac hotkeys

interesting, you don't mind low level coding as I recall? I would have thought Objective-C wouldn't be a real bother to anyone ok with low-level work from the stuff I've seen/heard of Objective-C

@whatsisname the home/end keys are rageworthy..

yes, home/end made me rage the most

what was annoying about the mac stuff is simply that a) I've never done it before, b) it encompassed about 5% of the projects deliverable, but it occupied about 20% of my time

I can never figure out when to use apple or ctrl or command or whatever either

things just dont go as quickly when you don't recall almost all of it off the top of your head

I switched my key bindings so the apple control key or whatever was ctrl because I have a dell keyboard for it

oh well, first world problems

@GlenH7 Ctrl-D ? Ctrl-arrow?

I got a used mac mini for this, and the air coming out of it is like a million degrees

I just got in a great workout. I looked up that link on my tablet, and started cracking up at my desk, and had to visit the lavatory so I didn't create any more of a scene than I had begun to. Laughter is truly the best medicine.

Command is in Apple land like "Ctrl" is from PC/Linux land. E.g. CTRL+Q is "Command Q" in Apple land. For the most part, I find that the apps in Apple land actually recognize such things consistently. Apple even had a usability guide or something that outlined different things like this to make your applicaiton more consistent. Compare with Windows apps e.g. where some recognize CTRL+Q to quit the application, others don't.

yes, they consistently map two of the limited keyboard keys to two completely useless functions

I like the location of the command key a lot

@Brandin I can't think of an application in windows you can't close with alt+f4, but really closing an app is one of the least common hotkeys, how about cutting/copying/pasting/selecting a word/selecting a line/selecting a page/navigating those segments

those are the hot keys people use often; text navigation, manipulation, and selection

blech, I'm one of those who leaves absolutely everything open until I literally can't navigate anymore so I start purging the things I haven't used in 2 or 4 weeks

it drives me nuts watching people open an app, use it, close it, open another app, close it, open the same app they had open moments ago, close it, re-open the second app

agreed, opening apps and clicking all the buttons to make them actually usable takes way too long to close them every time I get distracted by another app

there's 128 cores in all our machines these days but some people can only manage single-process usage

@GlenH7 uuggghhh. :)

hey sup guys, anyone here who are php programmers?

@Vista deja vu

@Ixrec Hola! can you check my post? really need some help :(

@GlenH7 O_O gads no. I just did a purge a moment ago and that left me with 2 chromes open about 4 chrome dev windows and each of the chromes have around 16 tabs

I currently have 3 visual studio's running, 4 command prompts, looks like 10+ windows explorers, and 5 notepads open

@GlenH7 sure thanks

@Ixrec can you try implementing it? :(

gotta keep this room about complaining about project management and booze?

@GlenH7 GAHH I hate notepad++ so much mostly for that reason

I would hate that part of notepad++ less if I could figure out how to do control navigation

every time I try to right click a file on a server somebody installed notepad++ on same thing happens: My "edit" choice is gone and now it's "edit with notepad++" and I'm too lazy to "open with" and reassign the default editor, so I edit with notepad++, and without fail: it comes up with like 18 other tabs from previous times it was opened, and then I go to edit the file but WAIT! It's got an updates popup blinking at me now like feckin' acrobat.

oh I like the previous tabs being reopened :P

and the tabs aren't pleasant to use, plus when I'm fidgeting with a strip of stupid text like notepad, often I want to open two and put them side by side to comparison or do other stuff

@GlenH7 alternatively, use notepad and never have to worry about them

@GlenH7 everyone loves it, yes I know, but I can't stand that it adds extraneous stuff like that when what I really want is to just see the text outright

@GlenH7 Scotch you buddy!

I used Notepad++ for pretty much any text file tbh, it has the right amount of features (for me at least) that are actually useful versus not super-bloated by stuff no one cares about

vanilla Notepad is literally just flat out broken, using it for anything is a risk, not a convenience

Wordpad is totally fine for simple stuff though

no gedit love??

what kind of dev chat is this, talking about whether you like notepad or notepad++ or wordpad better? pfffft! :P

I've never really bothered trying out Sublime or Atom or emacs or any of the other fancy ones programmers like to wax lyrical about

at least for now, the text editor is not my bottleneck

low priority stuff in my working memory winds up on my swap partition so I can be brilliant about more important items

I rarely actually edit text at all; it's almost always opening log files or config files. One of the problems with notepad++ is if some jackass installed it and configured it just so- it'll change the file encoding when it saves, adding a BOM or whatever else and that will blow up some applications. My boss lost two days troubleshooting the IIS extension UrlScan because he would get it to work and then as soon as he made edits to the config file it would stop working or work totally erratically

turned out everytime he edited it with notepad++ it was tweaking the encoding and UrlScan would no longer parse the config file properly

But that's a best practice! grumble grumble

oh, agree there, I would never use someone else's Notepad++

@Ixrec Atom and emacs really aren't the same thing as notepad at all; notepad is literally "just give me this files text real quick kthxbye", atom and emacs are both full fledged development environments.

I use it on my laptop here at home

@Ixrec but when people install it on a machine it takes over the file associations by default so when you go to edit a text file it note longer says "Edit" it's "Edit with notepad++"

on shared dev and QA servers is the only time I ever interact with Notepad++ because other devs install it

weird, I don't even use it for coding

@Ixrec people use it for log and config files typically

at work I use our proprietary IDE for frontend, vim for backend, and some of my teammates use Sublime or Atom

Day 4 (update): I did a regex. BOW BEFORE ME MERE MORTALS!

@enderland if you're on linux, you're 99% of the way to vim anyway.

I once designed and implemented a C-like pattern matching language that compiled to regex. Beat that.

@Ampt inb4Jimmy

:25192340 one of those files is now missing it's entire footer

get that CI suite going yet? :)

lol @Ampt

> one of those files is now missing it's entire file

ftfy

just keep removing files until things compile!

@enderland I was told to remove them if I saw them, I went the extra step and removed ALL of them

but you didn't see some of them :o

did a search for some key sections of text after I did the removal - nada

its the same thing over and over, but multiline searching doesn't work well in intelliJ so I had to make some regex magic

once I did that, it was easy enough to simply look for a phrase I knew was in the middle

@JimmyHoffa Alt-F4 tells the Window manager to close the window. It is not the same as closing an application. For example, Firefox shuts down the application (all windows) when you press Ctrl+Q. That is the meaning of "close the application".

the few times I've used Macs, the one thing I can't get past is that closing the window does not close the application, even if the application has only one window

that's just silly

Wow, skype does that and it makes me want to take an electromagnet to my hard drive

It's like GET OFF MY TASK BAR YOU LITTLE PARASITE

at least Macs have a consistent shortcut for "actually close the application", Skype hides its real quit button in the right-click menu of the task bar icon (WTF!?!?) because it thinks it knows better than all your little plebian apps

skype for business? that's a virus

come to think of it, we don't use skype where I work

lync became skype

what we do use seems a lot less bloated so I guess that's a good thing

@enderland yeah, now when I open skype, I have Skype, Skype for Desktop, and Skype for Business

cuz THATS not confusing at all

I'm forcing it to use the lync UI since it's less fugly

I hate apps that do that

nobody wants to have three versions of the same thing installed

@enderland my work pc has the new UI, but is still called lync

@JimmyHoffa: you and I appear to work the same ways

I had to dive into it to figure out how to keep it from docking up all the convos in one window...

unless you're a speedrunner testing glitches in the US, EU and JP releases

@whatsisname that is to say grumpily, with much cynicism?

@Ampt why? that's myfavorite feature of the newer version

I always have lots of IM windows open though....

@enderland I have no clue who's messaging me until I open the mega window

@Ampt: that too, but also with a gazillion windows open

oh, you don't get the preview in the bottom of your screen?

I've never heard of lync, so I guess that was gone by the time I started using Skype

the one I used before that was MSN

@whatsisname I currently have: 3 intellij projects, 2 notepads, 3 vpn windows, 5 lync message windows, and 50 chrome tabs over 4 windows.

MSN messenger --> Lync --> Skype

and rarely AOL messenger

my GFs work uses yahoo messenger...

Like, really?

tbh the one thing I really don't like about Skype is that it's a closed protocol

so you can't just use Pidgin on it

oh, and outlook, forgot that one

oh, and a VM

I need a regex/BNform way of specifying a schema. Thoughts?

it's driving my project lead over every time she sees my desktop haha

@Ampt wat

this is what my taskbar looks like imgur.com/1dEAC4O

@AaronHall could you be a tad more specific about what you're trying to do and why regex/BNG is what you want for it?

@enderland that was my reaction. like just, regular old yahoo messenger

and she's not at a small business anymore

it is decidedly medium sized

5+ offices

oh, and they don't have an IT department

probably because "IT doesn't make money"

lol

For example, I want to accept a spreadsheet with dates as column headings, parse it, and check if it is as specified, so I need to allow it to be like more than a set number of columns.

how do you really feel

Almost Jimmy levels of bitter

@AaronHall where does the regex come in?

you know, like (\d{4}-\d{2}-\d{2})+ or (\d{4}-\d{2}-\d{2}){10,20}

so...you're asking how to convert a schema to a regex that tests whether a spreadsheet matches the schema?

why not use a real validator for your chosen schema format?

@AaronHall: just start banging away in ANTLR until something works

normally one would choose the schema format in part based on availability of validators for that schema format in your favorite language

I'm sure xml/xsd is available in everything ever, there's probably a few JSON schema validators in most languages too

@AaronHall what spreadsheet? CSV? Excel? While CSV happens to be a regular language, using regexes on this scale is not a good idea. Most languages have libraries to actually parse various spreadsheet formats. You can then apply arbitrary validation to the resulting fields.

Yeah, I'm using a tool well made for that usage, but that doesn't mean the table it reads in is acceptable

that's true, if the kind of validation you want to do isn't ameneable to schemas you can always just parse the spreadsheet and then write your own validation code

Well, yeah, I gotta write my own code here. I thought I told you guys I suffer from paralysis by analysis.

I gathered as much

I particularly like how everyone sees the sysadmins

@enderland: i can't tell who has it worse, the sysadmins or designers

I feel like the sysadmin parts made me laugh more, I feel like more sysadmins would empathize with that than designers :P

i love when people say they are excited to collaborate and work together when in reality it means I do everything and they do nothing

the "programmers seen by PM" picture is funny too

@AaronHall personally I'm not seeing paralysis so much as lack of detail, you haven't shown a sample schema or a sample spreadsheet, and the prposed sample regex you only showed after prompting, and typically one would want to look at half a dozen of each to get a feel for the actual scope of whatever it is you're trying to implement

e.g., do you care about spreadsheets having conditional formatting that makes them turn green on Sundays in leap years? I have no idea

Conditional formatting, don't care

reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/3rib7p/…

ok these are really funny

The idea is to get the data from the spreadsheet and delete the spreadsheet.

No message, NetNanny just blocks it altogether.

I'm not sure if I've ever interacted with a sysadmin

I have, they're very nice to me.

there are people where I work who are in charge of the physical machines, but the automated tooling for auditing and permissioning access to them has always been sufficient for me

Yeah, that takes care of the pesky human factor.

yep, I remember that comic

What is this comic?

It's hard to take stick figures seriously.

@AaronHall you can just click on it to open the link...

now that you mention it, what the heck is devops?

It's a like a junior programmer and a junior sysadmin all wrapped in to one.

I'm in a smart-butt mood, sorry for the impertinence.

that's pretty mild for these chat rooms

One cannot be too deferential on another person's server.

I kind of feel like devops is a way to trick convince people that doing on-call software dev is cool

this is only giving me the impression that it's a marketing term with no solid definition or motivation

though our team does own a set of VMs now so I suppose we're going to be devops now

Not all SA's can develop, not all dev's can operate. It's a niche.

PAY NO ATTENTION TO THAT MAN ^^^^

LOL

@RobertHarvey I totally get it, but I've given 3 Python talks with "Best Practices" in the title, so I have to defend my honor.

is it a best practice to pay no attention to the man?

it's a best practice to figure out who the man is before deciding how much attention to pay him

I'm not sure if I've ever heard anyone use the phrase "best practices" at work

When you try to help someone with their code, but their code is doing all kinds of things wrong, you think, "this fellow really needs to learn the dogma."

don't call it dogma! =)

@Ixrec I've been in the workforce a long time, and I can't remember even a single instance where something was referred to in a work context as a "best practice."

catpop?

I work with a bunch of people who went to business school, so they love to follow best practices. But they hate to learn them. So I'm really able to leverage that.

my impression is that most people whose code immediately looks terrible either 1) simply don't know how to code, and need to go read a book on the language from page one, or 2) have a fairly specific bad habit such as overcomplicating things or never documenting stuff or not writing tests

lol, nice

did you buy them all a copy of Effective <whatever your language is>?

That book's a piece of crap. I'm writing a better one.

what's your language?

Python

ok, haven't read that one

I want to give a 4th talk now - "Best Practices for Code Reuse."

sounds a bit broad

Yeah, they eat that stuff up.

And I'm able to hit a ton of details in the same theme.

do they remember and use those details?

Probably not, but I'm going to blow up on Youtube. :)

I still need to release my last one

I'll put it out there, and you guys can laugh at me.

Deal?

we can do that

ok, I just looked at your profile, and the very first question you link in your about me blurb is one I recognized from the title

so yes I am interested in this video now

Does anyone have close votes left?

I've been too lazy to use mine lately so there you go

pew pew

I'm flattered.