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8:00 PM
I was considering do a quick mail server upgrade before I left...then decided that wasn't a good idea.
I'm out as well.
 
@voretaq7 my real comment was going to be "Do you know how to do it currently with admin privileges?"
 
@NathanC There's no such thing as a "quick" mail server upgrade
 
@voretaq7 sure there is! upgrade from exchange to gmail!
 
@MattBear . . . I did one of those once. It was neither quick nor painless.
 
@voretaq7 "We will no longer host email services, go make a gmail account and don't bother me. If you cant figure it out, you don't deserve email"
5 minutes, done
 
8:11 PM
@MattBear and now begin the "THE INTERNET IS DOWWWWWWWWNNNNNN" phone calls....
 
@voretaq7 Sure there is...you just say you did an upgrade.
 
@voretaq7 whys the phone plugged in?
 
@MattBear in my office? Because if you unplug your phone you lose your internet connection.
 
screw you daily close limit!
 
@voretaq7 damn cisco phones
 
8:13 PM
@MattBear no, we're upgrading to "Damn Cisco" next year
 
@voretaq7 what are you on now?
 
Currently we have "Fucking Grandstream" because they took my proof-of-concept network and just bought more of them rather than reading the second page that described the correct build-out
whatever - everyone else has a 100Mbit limit on their connections right now. I have a separate network drop for my workstation :P
Does Cisco have reasonably-priced gigabit 4-line phones yet?
the SPA514G looks promising
 
So, now I've done it. Should have taken ewwhite's advice against VMware RDMs because now my ZFS RAID is... no longer appearing in this film
Though the issue might be a Seagate Firmware bug, not sure yet
adventures in data loss are more fun when it's not your own data on the line
2
 
8:42 PM
@JoshGitlin no shit
@voretaq7 cisco doesn't do reasonable pricing
 
@DennisKaarsemaker yeah, sorry, just ranting :-p
 
Elasticsearch bought Logstash.
 
@DennisKaarsemaker sure they do
They learned how from OraSun
 
I think all elasticsearch did is bought Jordan, creator of Logstash.
 
@ewwhite @ward @freiheit @wesley (get a bike) strava.com/activities/78528655 bit quicker tonight
 
8:53 PM
@DanilaLadner NROOO
 
whew found mah datas
 
I dunno if this is old news or not, but jesus christ..
 
hahaha
Looks like it is a seagate firmware bug, I knew I should have stuck to the advice of different drive manufacturers for a RAID
So the VMware RDMs do work in 5.1
ducks
 
@pauska I like the SSID idea
 
9:08 PM
This is my favorite thing ever
 
but yeah
 
9:26 PM
@JoelESalas priceless
 
@JoelESalas I almost fell off my chair
> This was working before, but I had to reinstall Arch Linux, so does anyone have an idea for why this doesn't work?
Gee, I wonder why that could be?
People are telling him to sanitize his input, lmao. That's the least of his problems!
 
-1
Q: Possible to copy selected text to clipboard on mouse up?

user249775Currently to copy text to clipboard, you'd have to select the text right click on the selection select copy this is 3 processes. what we do know is, after you select text mouse button goes up. perhaps on mouse up the text should be copied to the clipboard this eliminates 2 steps necessary...

 
@Iain You keep getting faster and faster.
 
9:44 PM
So what did I miss today? I was just out... buying a HOUSE!!!
 
@ewwhite you mean "personal data center"
 
@DennisKaarsemaker Does that mean I can't relocate to Amsterdam?
 
sure you can, I'll trade houses with you :)
 
Do you have some desire to be in the US?
 
only in september
 
9:49 PM
@freiheit The club is popular enough to split into two rides now
 
chicago isn't too far from seattle, right =)
 
@ewwhite congrats!
 
@ewwhite You have procured a new waterproof bicycle storage unit?
 
@DennisKaarsemaker only a 4-hour flight...
@freiheit room for my 30 bike wheels!
 
@ewwhite You missed my frightening experience where my ZFS RAIDz went AWOL and I assumed you were right about RDMs...
1 hour ago, by Josh Gitlin
So, now I've done it. Should have taken ewwhite's advice against VMware RDMs because now my ZFS RAID is... no longer appearing in this film
 
9:52 PM
Mint.com - Just letting you know that a large transaction named Fed Wire Out for $150,000.00 took place on 08/28/2013. If that doesn't sound familiar, you might want to check it out. Review your transactions to make sure the spending on your account is accurate.
2
 
@ewwhite a Nigerian prince thanks you!
 
@RyJones Something like that... but what if I'm Nigerian?
 
@ewwhite ah Dare Obasanjo wrote about that.
 
Awww, that makes me sad.
 
10:11 PM
@mdmarra I have a 2008 R2 DC that boots into safe mode; every time. Doesn't BSOD, doesn't give me boot options and if I force boot options and choose "normal" it still boots into safe mode.
I'm about to restore from backup; just wondering if you have any insights before I do
 
@MarkHenderson did it just start doing this?
 
sup noobs?
 
who you callin noob noob?
 
@MDMarra look up three lines
 
@MarkHenderson Um, is /Safeboot or whatever checked in msconfig?
 
10:12 PM
@RyJones Yesterday was fine, today is fucked. No windows updates or nothin
 
or does bcdedit give you anything interesting?
@Zypher the noobs
 
@MarkHenderson did you install a vmware update?
 
@RyJones Haha, no I did not
This server is on a different, already up to date, cluster
 
just giving you a hard time
 
@MarkHenderson no reason to really restore a DC from backup if you have others. Just build a new one
Unless it has other roles than just AD DS and DNS
 
10:13 PM
@MDMarra This one has other roles on it as well; not just a sole DC
 
tsk tsk
 
It's also a TS License server and a certificate authority
 
oh my god you're my worst nightmare
 
@MDMarra I did what I could with what I had
I do not normally mix roles (and I don't in my own network)
 
@MarkHenderson so is there anything interesting in the output of bcdedit
 
10:17 PM
Yes ther eis
from msconfig
 
@JoshGitlin I'm sorry that happened to you.
@MDMarra Nuh uh
 
I have no idea how or why the fuck that option has been set
 
@ewwhite Thanks; all is good, it was just an update to FreeNAS I did in an attempt to resolve the performance issues. Looks like the RAID dissappeared due to a bug in the drives' firmware; rolling back fixed it. Still investigating
@MarkHenderson blame the trolls
 
@MarkHenderson nailed it
 
I'm frazzled this morning; I should have thought of that myself. Just not in the mood for bullshit and wanted to take the shortest way out
 
10:19 PM
@MilesErickson humid today eh?
 
@MarkHenderson Lucky for you, it's 6PM here
 
@RyJones It's been raining off and on out in the islands, yup.
 
@MDMarra Indeed
 
wait wait, this is not a place for live support!
should have fed @MarkHenderson bullshit answers!
 
I have learnt a lot of shit from this community. I'd probably still be totally rubbish if I hadn't hung out here so much
4
 
10:20 PM
@MarkHenderson Me too.
 
@RyJones Hah, that guy who posted rm -rf / answers cleverly disguised a few days ago? He came back and defended his fucking actions as "It was clearly a joke, nobody would run that would they!?"
 
@RyJones what about dead support and undead support?
 
@MarkHenderson yeah fuck him
@freiheit I am OK with undead support
 
@MarkHenderson you're saying you're not rubbish? :)
 
@freiheit Didn't Nostradamus say that the Zombie Apocalypse would start in a call center?
 
10:22 PM
@DennisKaarsemaker I'm less rubbish
 
@MilesErickson it started in many apple stores simultaneously...
 
I clearly do not understand either VMware Resource pools or basic math because my server and I seem to disagree on how much RAM I can allocate to my various VMs :-p
 
Where's @Cole lately? I miss his whinging
 
@MarkHenderson he's still around, complaining about his cow-orkers
 
@JoshGitlin @ewwhite can explain resource pools in great detail.
I'm sure he'd love to talk about it to a willing listener, since his coworkers don't seem to care about them
 
10:30 PM
@MDMarra thanks. I'd be a willing listener! @ewwhite has already taught me much about VMware. In this case I'm pretty sure it's just me making a silly math error however :-)
Oh, yes. Like assigning 100% of the CPU resources to only two of the VMs on the host :-p
 
I got a call from one of our managed services guys yesterday. A customer had deleted all of the DCs for one of their child domains out of VMware, because they decided they didn't want that child domain anymore and they were wondering why they were getting all kinds of replication errors and why the domain was still showing up in places like Sites & Services.
He wanted to know where you start with a problem like that. I said "By assigning the ticket to someone else"
 
@MDMarra that is a good call, sir
 
@MarkHenderson Argh that is a fucking annoying boot option.
Lost a couple hours to that one...
Can anyone think of a good reason to continuously boot in safe mode?
 
@Tanner To create jobs in the IT industry.
 
@Tanner you're trying to recover from a problem
over and over again
 
10:46 PM
@Tanner because you can't get the OS to boot, so you use an external tool to set the bootloader to that value so you don't have to trigger a safeboot from inside of the OS that you're locked out of?
Or, in the event of a DC, you want to stay in DSRM between restore operations until you're totally done restoring
 
@MDMarra That makes sense.
 
I need IT advice.
 
@ewwhite Don't do IT. Become a truck driver. You'll be happier.
 
I have a customer, sorta... who paid me a lot of $ to move their data center, establish colo, comms, procure hardware, network, add firewall, VPN, license, etc.
it's a web development shop
I did the project as a fixed price
but now that they're running, they don't want to pay me for the questions they have
the owner thinks his head developer should be able to do things.
They asked me for a very specific VPN hack to help their offshore devs... it was 90 minutes of my time... I charged.
but they need another office connected and went the route of buying a Cisco router instead of an ASA, and spent hours on the phone with CDW and Cisco getting a VPN established.
 
You wouldn't hire a carpenter to do plumbing. You shouldn't hire a developer to do sysadmin work.
 
10:57 PM
And I called them out on it... I'm like, "you don't have to pay my rate every time you need something. Just pay a retainer and I'll monitor your systems"
like $500/mo...
they're in my colo, across the row from my stuff... my recommendation... I sold the hardware, etc, etc.
and they're asking for manuals and documentation so that they can call HP or VMware if they have a problem.
Is the client's logic flawed?
and how do I convince them that there's a threshold...
 
Hey, if they want to run their own stuff, that's fine. Let them. Just make sure they know that when things go all to hell, it's going to be above your normal hourly rate to untangle the mess.
 
The head dev wants to learn, and is afraid to call me because I'll just "do it".
 
But if the "head dev" wants to pick your brain every five minutes, uh, NO.
 
@ewwhite this is why you need to spell out specific deliverables on your projects
 
@MichaelHampton well, what's the cutoff? I understand he wants to learn... and as a dev, he may be capable, but how do you say, "I do this shit all the time, all-day, everyday"
 
11:01 PM
After you meet them, you're done unless theres more $$ involved
 
@MDMarra project is delivered... paid in full
 
agree on the deliverables up front and avoid this later
Right but they apparently want more
manuals, etc
 
no, they want more knowledge...
 
@ewwhite I'd point them to classes
 
and haven't been calling me because of my rate
 
11:01 PM
if you agree on deliverables you just say "Sorry that wasnt in scope but this knowledge is x hours"
ok dinner time
 
@MDMarra How do i give them that knowledge?
 
@ewwhite "For many things, it'll take me 5 minutes to do it or 30 to show somebody else how to do it and why it's done that way."
 
@MichaelHampton You'd agree that Linux is broad enough that it would be hard to take a newbie to your level.
 
@ewwhite I sure as hell wouldn't do it myself. I'd send them off to Red Hat training or something.
 
@freiheit this is correct... but I'm also of the mind that there's a value in having a real engineer do it
 
11:03 PM
@MichaelHampton yes
@ewwhite you're going to be redoing it later anyway
 
Tell the head dev to go here to see what he still needs to learn.
 
@ewwhite And then another 2 hours to fix what they broke when they try to do it on their own and didn't realize they didn't really understand something.
It takes years to get really good.
 
@MichaelHampton no, they are an ubuntu shop
 
@freiheit 10,000 hours baby
 
@ewwhite Then they're doubly doing it wrong.
 
11:05 PM
@freiheit right... so how do I say, "it takes YEARS to get really good... you're not capable of getting there this quickly?"
 
@MichaelHampton "Oh, come on, Windows XP makes a great server OS. Why not Ubuntu?"
 
why say anything? they don't value your experience.
 
@RyJones over-repeated magic number. "2000-20,000 hours" is closer to right, IIRC.
 
@MichaelHampton they're fine on Linux... it's shit like VMware, Nexenta and VPNs.
and I've talked to the head dev... he watched over my shoulder the entire installation
 
11:06 PM
@freiheit it's the concept, not the number.
 
13
A: Is there such a thing as a Ubuntu Certified Engineer?

tijybbaIt is actually called Ubuntu Certified Professional . The initial Ubuntu Certification was Announced in 2006 jointly with Linux Professional Institute (LPI) for Ubuntu certification exam ,but later as Officially announced here in 2010 "We are really excited to support the Ubuntu 10.04 LTS ...

@ewwhite Documentation. Labs. Experience.
 
people shouldn't expect to pick stuff up in a few weeks.
 
Hell, @ewwhite knows more about VMware, Nexenta and VPNs than I know about Linux.
 
@RyJones so if they shouldn't expect to pick these things up... why are they asking as though they should?
 
@ewwhite they're confused.
 
11:09 PM
@ewwhite It sounds like they've made their decision: they don't want to pay your hourly rate, end of story.
 
Maybe this is just a bad customer to have
 
A good developer can pick up a new programming language in a few weeks, or even days. So that's probably what they're thinking about.
 
Most people don't pay my hourly rate.
most pay anywhere from $500/mo to $4k/mo for services.
depending on complexity and their need.
 
@ewwhite I've had people pay $140 an hour to have me do things more slowly, and I've had one guy pay me $225 an hour to let him vent about how upset he was that his RAID status hadn't been monitored (because he had previously declined to pay a token monthly fee for monitoring). Whatever.
 
this isn't about the $ for me.
it's that I was called in to recommend and implement a solution
 
11:11 PM
@MichaelHampton or in the case of womble, a train driver
 
and these people think it's turn-key.
 
@ewwhite Got it.
 
If I were going to recommend a generic solution that anyone would support, I wouldn't have bought a Nexenta system
 
@ewwhite Is there some way you can build a first-year maintenance agreement into the project scope?
 
We do not administer TOASTERS!
 
11:12 PM
@ewwhite Sure, but they paid less than half what they would have paid for a less capable box from $san_vendor.
 
@MilesErickson I don't really operate on contracts... most of my clients know what's up.
@MilesErickson I could have used an HP P2000... same price.
they chose the nexenta
 
@ewwhite So, clearly, they're not understanding the implications of their own decision-making.
@ewwhite I started doing scope writeups of every project because my liability insurance company required it, but I wouldn't ever stop.
@ewwhite The client has to sign the scope statement.
 
@MilesErickson I think I explained that it was safer to go with me because I brought them into a colo... near my systems.
scope was understood
it's really what happens now..
the head dev wants education
and I don't think it's easy to teach someone to be a sysadmin
if it were, we'd have more and better sysadmins out there
 
This is not something most developers can pick up easily.
 
@MichaelHampton for what reason?
I mean, I fixed their vmware setup too...
I really did a good job.
 
11:17 PM
Different patterns of thinking, perhaps?
 
No more than good devs can be good testers.
it's a whole other mindset
 
@MichaelHampton so is there a concise way of saying, "I can't condense a full career of implementations and systems administration into digestible snippets that will suddenly make you 'qualified' to do this"?
 
@ewwhite you just did
 
@ewwhite I think you just did.
If he really wants to go ahead, have him buy The Book.
 
there is a book?
 
But is this a keep-it-real moment?
 
You can do this right and listen to me... or you can go cheap and try to figure it out yourself.
I'm basically saying that I can't teach the guy to be a sysadmin
I offered to let him know how to do the routine tasks
 
Pretty much.
 
but that it makes more sense to lean on me for the heavy lifting
is that wrong?
 
11:22 PM
Seems reasonable to me. Of course, this is a LOT more complex than just, say, learning the basics of Ruby on Rails in a weekend (which I did).
 
@ewwhite Is he that incompetent?
 
He could read the Limoncelli book in a weekend, though, and then he'd probably finally realize just how in over his head he is.
 
@MichaelHampton Well, sure. Learning RoR, you just need to learn how do stuff. To go from dev to sysadmin, you have to learn what stuff to do, how to do it, and why.
 
@JoelESalas they didn't get some basic concepts... like DNS... and how to really work with VMware and hardware
 
@ewwhite Sounds like they need a trained professional
 
11:25 PM
@JoelESalas They have @ewwhite.
 
which I am... somehow...
 
Why don't people compare having servers to having diabetes? "No I'll take care of this myself, make my own insulin, craft my own needles..."
 
@ewwhite I guess I'd suggest to that dev that he go buy the book and then come back when he's read it cover to cover.
 
heh, one of my co-workers plugged a network cable into a device and a laptop and couldn't figure out why he couldn't SSH over
 
rofl
 
11:26 PM
@JoelESalas Because nobody with diabeetus would make their own insulin?
 
but is it fair to say, "you're over your head"
 
Not unless they want to die
 
"but I want to learn?"
 
Hehehehe @MarkHenderson Your question on main
 
@MarkHenderson So why do people with servers and no clue how to manage them expect things to not go apeshit
 
11:26 PM
@ewwhite it's a fair assessment of where they are, so yes.
 
but he doesn't want to be over his head
 
@ewwhite I want to date supermodels
 
@RyanRies Meh figured I may as well share. I did search the site for the issue, found some similar questions but they all involved BSODs. Mine didn't
 
well, take my job...
we're trying to move people from the junior NOC to senior positions
 
@ewwhite Ah, the Dreamhost Manoeuvre
 
11:27 PM
same thing... I don't see how you grow a sysadmin...
 
Training and experience.
 
@JoelESalas Because it's just a computer right? I know computers! And this is just a big noisy computer! No difference!
 
Oh, and tell him to read Server Fault every day for a week.
 
@MarkHenderson I use Facebook and Twitter and read Buzzfeed. I guess you could say I'm kind of a nerd.
 
@MichaelHampton I asked my boss how I'd gain the requisite EMC VNX experience
and he said to "hit the books"
 
11:29 PM
How do you grow a sysadmin? give them real-world problems to solve and point them at the tools.
 
@JoelESalas Ahh see there's your problem. You use twitter and buzzfeed. This twitter thing, it'll never take off
 
Yeah, hit the books. Rig up a book stand to your stationary bicycle or something.
 
(Sadly, I truly believed that Twitter would fail, and fail hard, because "what can you say in 160 characters that's worth saying")
 
@ewwhite EMC has training, you know.
 
@MarkHenderson twitter is moving in upstairs
 
11:30 PM
@MarkHenderson Exactly the right amount of dumb shit
 
@MDMarra So I hear...
that's not in the cards, apparently
 
Then you have shitty management
 
@RyJones Well if you see a guy called [redacted] who used to be the head sysadmin at Fog Creek, kick him in the nuts for me. I was this close to getting a job there and being relocated to NY when he went and quit and made hiring me too risky of a move
 
@MDMarra "Our <defacto storage engineer> didn't know anything about EMC VNX before he started configuring them..."
 
@MarkHenderson ok, will do
not sure how someone else quitting makes you a risky hire
 
11:32 PM
@ewwhite Ask him if you can fill his next cavity for him. You've never done it, but you're capable of learning on the fly in production.
 
@MDMarra well, remember... same guy managed to cause a LOT of downtime.
 
@RyJones Because they needed someone local to fill the role and it was going to take too long and too expensive to relocate me. If he had stayed it wasn't a critical position so they could take a risk. But when he went to Twitter, the role became more critical to be filled quickly and they didn't want to take the risk of moving me to fill the hole, and then have me ragequit and want to go back to Australia
I totally understand; I wouldn't have hired me in that situation either
 
@MarkHenderson oy, that sucks
 
@RyJones I will always consider that job to be "the one that got away"
 
@MarkHenderson well, don't feel too bad about it
 
11:34 PM
@RyJones Eh, I got a nice payrise here when I told my boss I was staying
(he basically had a meltdown when I told him I was applying to an overseas position)
 
heh, we're always hiring
maybe you can get another raise :)
 
He tried to match Fog Creek's salary, but when I told him what they were offering he went pale
@RyJones Where do you work?
 
anyway, I know we pay relo
 
@RyJones Interesting
Where are the jobs based?
The jobs look pretty cardcore :P Designing LTE networks, ASICs, etc
 
@MarkHenderson all over the world, you can search by locale.
 
11:52 PM
@ewwhite You might enjoy this cnbc.com/id/100998098
-1
Q: Why do I need to set a mysql root password?

SnitseI have a webserver hosted on AWS, with the security group allowing access from all IP address's to TCP port 22 (ssh) and 443 (https). ssh access requires a user to have my private key. Should the root user on the MySQL database on this server have a password? If so, why? The only way to log int...

 
he doesn't need one. he wants one, he just doesn't know it.
 

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