English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2012-09-20 (page 1 of 8)

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1:22 AM

@TRiG Yes, well, enjoy smugly saying the five syllables of "dual carriageway" every time you mean "highway" and reassure yourself that speech and spelling that aren't awkward and syllabically and orthographically challenged don't really build character and empires, and that what you really came here to do was to take it up the poop chute and build empires, except that, sadly, you're all out of empires.

P.S. Can you tell I've been watching one too many Zero Punctuation video-game reviews? I think I should go to bed.

BTW, I agree about "could care less" — I mean, what the fuck? I used to forgive people who said that on the remote chance they were being ironic, except that the people who said it were usually mouth-breathers who never moved the nuance meter higher than David Mitchell's ~~ass~~ arse on the floor of that caring graph and wouldn't recognize irony if it came up and bit them on the aforementioned body part.

I didn't watch it. Too much spamvertising at the front.

Well, once you mute that for the required 30 seconds it's not bad.

But if he is bitching that we kept the original pronunciation of herb, and he has evolved, well he can keep it.

Actually, dual carriageway = divided highway.

He mocks his own language by giving at least a head-fake at the Cockney dropping of initial H.

Ah, so it is a clahss issyue then.

1:29 AM

@tchrist We would just call that the highway or freeway here. Either way, it's two — count 'em, two — syllables. Three if you simply must call it the interstate, but that's still way less than five.

road

There are highways that aren’t fourlanes.

I just call it the fourlane.

The one without any stop-and-go lights.

I mean, if we want to revel in our own words, we might as well use them.

This is my idea of a high way.

Saw.

I wrote revel before I saw that that was Ravel.

Weird.

1:36 AM

@tchrist Overlapping puns then. I was going for forlane.

I saw the forlane later, yes.

There’s another forlane ref that keeps eluding me.

Stopandgoes (meaning traffic lights) and fourlanes are from where I was a kid.

There's got to be a way to work the House of Fourdor in here somehow. You know — Tudor times two? Henry XVI and all that?

Hello.

Hullo.

Got it.

I was thinking of the Ford Fairlane.

1:38 AM

Did you know there was a whole Youtube genre about trolling moms through Xbox Live something?

But apparently there is a Fourlane Ford in Alberta.

They get this kid to put his mother on the line, and they tell her little Andrew was watching pornography and such.

Ick.

Wasn't there a fake detective named Ford Fairlane?

And playing games rated 17+ while Andrew is only 13.

1:39 AM

The Adventures of Ford Fairlane

The Adventures of Ford Fairlane is a 1990 action/comedy film directed by Renny Harlin. It stars comedian Andrew Dice Clay as the title character, Ford Fairlane, a "Rock n' Roll Detective," whose beat is the music industry in Los Angeles. Plot Ford Fairlane is seen sitting on a beach smoking as the film opens. A flashback initiates, showing a roaring crowd at a concert given by fictional popular heavy metal band The Black Plague. Lead singer Bobby Black (Vince Neil) makes an eccentric entrance down a zip-line onto the stage and begins performing. Shortly into one of the band's songs, Bo...

@Cerberus You come in here and interrupt a perfectly good rant with that bollocks?

Then it ends with a joke or an indecent proposition to the mother, and she hangs up.

@tchrist Yes.

@Robusto Yes, absolutely.

They make her write down the address of their "company", with is in Get-Trolled, Minnesota.

So admit it. You are totally into trolling moms.

1:40 AM

I must say it is hilarious, and fairly civil.

I couldn't do it, but it may not be unethical.

Just substitute Get-trolled for every mention of "ghetto" ...

Almost the same thing.

Now I suddenly find myself listening to Elvis Presley.

Excuse me — "get-TOE" ...

1:43 AM

What was up with Kit, why did her rants get pricked onto the wall?

What was up Kit? My, what an indelicate way to put that.

Ah, you edited it. Well, I'll leave my reaction for ~~posterior~~ posterity.

Pricked?

Heh.

I read "rants" as "pants" first.

She was behaving immoderately.

To have so lost her pants.

1:47 AM

user image

Like this.

Cool! Which one are you? Bets anyone?

@Cerberus No kiddie porn in chat, not even for trolling purposes.

I see the pants problem now.

You ain't seen nothing yet!

No, and we don't want to see nothing. Keep them pants on.

1:49 AM

Stick, not prick.

Those are stick-pins.

You want to see naught? Or naughty pictures?

I’d’ve said pinned more than stuck though.

nought

@tchrist I couldn't find a good example. I just wanted to use the word prick.

@Cerberus This is understandable.

Good.

1:51 AM

I see that one of Kit’s comments continues to apply.

I’m trying to figure out the tizzy Martha got into with ER.

ER?

Elizabeth Regina.

@tchrist Speaking of which, name three streets in Chicago that rhyme with vagina.

Hatch Street.

Regina, Paulina ... and Lunt.

1:55 AM

I knew the punchline, obviously.

Except there's no Hatch Street in Chicago that I'm aware of.

It’s in Downers Grove.

@tchrist QE2?

@Cerberus That’s whom I meant, yes; whether it’s whom Martha meant, I do not know.

Would you guys consider "The Tell-Tale Heart" a 'monster story'?

2:02 AM

No.

It belongs to the horror genre, perhaps.

Not all horror stories have monsters.

Maybe an under the cover monster... But I supposed "monster story" suggests a very recognizable monster in the story.

How about the urban legend "The Killer in the Backseat"?

The latter was recommended but I supposed that's also very horror genre based

Don’t know it, but if it is not a critter, then it is horror.

Or something.

I don’t remember the name for slasher movies.

@tchrist Oh, OK.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus where does one usually get a cheap sim card in europe? Like, if I wanted to get enough minutes/data for 10 days usage

2:23 AM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I would order it online. If you can pay online, you could have it shipped to your hotel?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus interesting idea

Otherwise, you could just walk into a phone shop (I don't know what kind of shops they have there). Your hotel may have pre-paid cards too.

Supermarkets have them too here.

But you'll probably get much better deals online.

You are limited to prepaid, I expect, so it is going to be comparatively expensive anyway (like 20–30 cents/minute).

Then again, I don't know how things are in Austria.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I am more interested in data, I don't expect to make many calls

Right, then you need to make sure the pre-paid card allows data.

Not all do.

prepaidgsm.net/en/austria.html

> Klax Internet / SurfKlax It's a data-only prepaid sim-card by T-Mobile Austria. The starting kit costs € 9.99 including 512MB of data; after that you pay the standard rate of € 0.02/MB. There's a new starting kit called SURFKLAX Paket which costs € 9.99 and includes 1GB of data valid 1 month. You then pay € 5.00/month for 1GB. In order to upgrade from Klax Internet to SurfKlax send an SMS writing "SURF" to 0676/2222

I would expect this to be sold in supermarkets, and perhaps even at your hotel.

You could just go to your hotel and ask them.

€ 10 for 500 MB is not too shabby.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus interesting. data-only.

2:34 AM

Yeah.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

what does it mean for the voice cards "activation fee/credit: 14.90/9.00"

You pay € 14,90, and you get € 9 "credit" on your card that you can use immediately.

Or so I assume.

I've never bought a pre-paid card in my life.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

ooooh..... so the card has € on it, not minutes or GB

So any calls and data you use are subtracted from the credit.

Yes.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

interesting

2:40 AM

And the cost per minute or SMS or MB is in the table somewhere when you click on the "offer" link.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 But the thing is, expressing this credit in Euros is meaningless if you don't get the exact same amount as what you paid for. They do that to make it more confusing or more attractive or something.

Don't pre-paid cards have some kind of credit on them in Canada?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus No, I think the extra € 5 is the activation fee

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yes, probably.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I honestly don't know how they work. I don't know anyone who's ever used one.

Here, it's mainly teenagers.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus You can reload for € 20/20 or € 40/40

2:42 AM

Right.

Here you will often see "pay only € 10 for € 20 credit".

On billboards.

Makes it seem cheaper, although what matters in the end is what you pay per minute, SMS, and MB in cold, hard euros.

So if they simply subtract double the amount per MB...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus yeah, exactly

Well, I'm not looking for the best possible rate or anything. I just want to be able to get maps and use Google Translate.

Yes, of course.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I would install off-line applications that can do that anyway.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

data-only would be useful. But I would also like to be able to make the occasional call if needed.

@Cerberus do you have a suggestion for a good offline replacement for those?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Ehm I have heard Waze mentioned for navigation.

Never used it myself.

Better Google "android offline navigation".

I saw some pages about this a while ago.

By the way, it is a good idea to store the areas around Vienna and Salzburg in memory through Google Maps (though it still won't allow you to navigate or search, you can at least look at the map).

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

well, for maps, I can probably use Google Maps in saved-map mode. I only really need two cities.

2:47 AM

Jinx.

But you can't search, and you can't navigate.

Which is stupid.

But you know Google, they want to force you to be online.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Well, I never use navigation

I can read a map just fine, I don't need the computer to tell me how to get there

I've never had a good result from navigation. The other day it tried to make me walk 14km to get to my house which was 1.4km away.

well, I am downloading dict.cc's EN/DE dictionaries

we'll see if they can be useful

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 How about directions, as in a route on the map?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus what do you mean?

Suppose you ask the hotel for a good restaurant, and they tell you it is at the Stefansplatz.

How will you find the Stefansplatz on the map?

You have no idea where it is.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I suppose

In the old days I'd look at the index of the map

now, I guess I'd just show the map to the hotel clerk and ask them where it is

3:04 AM

Why not just type "Stefansplatz" on your phone?

And you may want to know how to get somewhere when you're walking around town.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Assuming I can figure out how to type it

Sure you can.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

but still. Searching for something is one thing. Google maps doesn't have an index because it has search, so offline would be a weakness. But route-finding? I am fairly confident that I can handle that.

Sure.

As long as you have a map on your phone that shows your position with an arrow pointing in the right direction.

The direction you're facing, that is.

Hey, I'm getting a "couldn't sign in: there was a problem communicating with Google servers" on my phone.

But Google Maps works.

And Gmail too.

Hmm, google must have more than one server.

3:14 AM

Play Store application works too.

Hi!

Greetings, canine guardian of the Netherworld.

Or the Netherlands, one or the other.

woof

I find streetview useful in conversations with my wife.

I can say "turn left when you come to the shops that look like this". Or whatever.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I'm getting that too

But I can still use some of the google things

I think it might be my work email acct that isn't working

Oh!

I have never had this happen.

Surely it is no coincidence?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

3:17 AM

maybe google is having a problem

If we both have this all of a sudden.

@DavidWallace Haha, nice.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Probably.

I love Streetview.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 By the way, I'm hearing good stories about Nav Free.

But sometimes I find later that something has been demolished, and the particular street corner looks completely different.

@DavidWallace Hmm yes, that may happen in newer neighbourhoods I guess, or out of town.

@Cerberus Or places that aren't in Western Europe or North America.

> (About Google Maps offline cache:) Maps are automatically deleted after 30 days. There’s no warning and no way to change this behavior. If you depend on your map, you might find it has disappeared when you need it most.

I didn't know this.

3:20 AM

Streetview in my area has photos taken in 2009.

@DavidWallace I suppose...but they wouldn't demolish monuments in Turkey or the eastern part of the EU, mostly.

Or tourist areas around the world.

Yes. Most of the regions in which Jasmina looks for directions do not have Turkish monuments and are not tourist areas.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@DavidWallace you should start a petition to rectify that.

You mean, petition her to ask for directions to different places?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

no, petition to get more turkish monuments installed, so that she can use them as waypoints

3:24 AM

I'm not sure whether that's more likely to be successful or less.

@DavidWallace And you let her visit such ugly places on her own?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 So by the way, I would probably download Nav Free.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus setting it up now

In fact, I probably will, because I will be out in the country next weekend, with weak coverage.

Yay!

Oh, and it says you need Nav Free USA for USA maps. I don't know how or why.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I'm not sure how much of it works offline. At least the maps are stored permanently offline

These pages I read say everything works offline.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

3:26 AM

I'm sure I won't need those in Austria :)

Probably not!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus The app description I read said it integrates with Google and Bing

Yes.

Why is english.stackexchange.com/questions/83143/… still open? Have we become a proofreading site?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

play.google.com/store/apps/…

3:27 AM

It has some Google Search function that doesn't work offline, obviously.

The rest works.

@Cerberus Who said ugly?

I said devoid of Turkish monuments.

We don't have ugly places in the Hutt Valley.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@DavidWallace It's not exactly proofreading.

It's about a bunch of possible common errors.

Isn't that what proofreading is?

Here are five sentences. Please proofread. That's what the question essentially says.

@DavidWallace Sorry, I only like Turkish monuments.

@DavidWallace Yeah it is proofreading.

Mind you, I suppose that's why we have a voting system, rather than a Davidocracy.

3:32 AM

He should post those sentences separately.

So that I have to issue five separate close votes?

Very short "texts" where the OP is looking to identify a specific error rather than correct all errors is fine to me.

We have always made an exception for short sentences with some background research.

No, I think the poster needs to know what the potential error is. So, a question about lie vs lay is OK. A question that says "what's the error in 'if you don't feel well, go and lay down' " is not.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@DavidWallace It's not proofreading. He didn't write a sentence and say "Is this sentence okay?" He was given a sentence that is known to have a common grammatical error, and he can't find the error. The sentence is already "proofread".

And what if the correct answer were "that one's a trick question; the sentence is fine"?

3:35 AM

@DavidWallace I feel that it is OK.

@DavidWallace Then what?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

What if? Actually it would be instructive to the OP if someone said, eg, number 1 is just peeving by pedants. The grammar is actually fine.

Well, then there's no difference between such an exercise, and a "proofread this sentence" question.

Do we really want someone who has a long paragraph of text to proofread to split it down into individual sentences, and post over 9000 questions?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

It's one thing if the text is not supposed to have any errors in it and we are given the task of finding the errors to help someone with their English homework. It's different if a sentence is highlighted as having a specific problem and we are asked to explain it.

Yes. A specific problem. Not an unknown problem.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Anyway, proofreading questions don't bother me too much, except that they are too-localized and boring. But then again, just about everything in ELL is that way too.

3:39 AM

7 mins ago, by David Wallace

Mind you, I suppose that's why we have a voting system, rather than a Davidocracy.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@DavidWallace Specifically, a grammar problem. Not any of the other possible problems that might arise in proofreading, such as odd use of vocabulary or unidiomatic phrases or spelling mistakes or whatever.

I see them as a precedent. You let one in, and suddenly we become weproofreadyourstuffforfree.com

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

It's the difference between a puzzle, and a homework assignment.

But lie/lay is a vocabulary problem, not a grammar problem.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yes, I get grumpy on math.stackexchange.com when people provide detailed answers to obvious homework problems.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@DavidWallace well, whatever.

3:45 AM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I feel the same way.

Hah! I should answer more questions and complain about fewer.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Anyway, I'm sure the question will accumulate enough close votes by tomorrow to be closed as OT or TL. Also FF noted in the comments that 4 of the 5 sentences are actually dupes anyway :p

@DavidWallace We can deal with that when the time comes.

As long as it isn't a problem, I say we should be allowed to answer such questions, because many of us find them entertaining.

Actually, I suspect that the entertainment value is what keeps this site functioning.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

> That is saying that the firm is now out of business, or at least is no longer serving customers.

3:47 AM

@DavidWallace D'oh!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

that is what @tchrist says about the first sentence in that question.

I didn't get that either.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

> The firm is proud to have served our clients for fifty years.

Yes, I strongly disagreed with tchrist about that one.

The problem is it => our.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

3:48 AM

@Cerberus rubbish

As one of the other answers clearly says.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 It is not a serious problem, but something that could be improved.

I suppose it behooves me to point out my disagreement on the answer itself.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus That has to be the most nit-picky correction I've ever seen.

And frankly, I don't even consider it an error. I think it's perfectly fine for a member of the firm to refer to "we" as "The firm".

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 So be it. I find it a bit imprecise and suboptimal.

Maybe it's a different firm.

3:50 AM

Could be.

Customers come to us, and we fail to serve them adequately, so the firm serves them instead.

So the firm has been serving our customers for 50 years. Even though we are not the firm.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Are you still getting the Google error too?

And they're proud of it.

Yes, could be.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus it went away, and now it came back

3:54 AM

Same here.

Cerb's phone couldn't run Google Maps
And had problems with some other apps
So he traded it in
for a pad and a pen
which give service without any gaps.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

hahaha as if anyone would trade in a Galaxy Nexus! well, except the guy who gave me his.

so this navfree app. 1. It downloads a LOT of data. but okay. 2. It's really, really slow to download.

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