And simul = semel, I believe, which comes from PIE sems-, I believe, "one".

Basque is even worse. It's its own everything.

I know.

Like Pelasgian.

@Cerberus Let me go check my sound-rule book.

Okay, now I'm going to look up ensemble.

It probably comes from sembler after all, I can feel it in my bones.

@Cerberus or Japanese, for that matter.

But how?

It is strange.

I know we have proponents of the Altaic theory right here in this chat, but I choose to ignore them for the sake of the argument.

@ЯegDwight At least there are hypotheses that place Japanese and IE in the same superfamiliy...

Jinx.

Can't find that paper that linked Hungarian to Japanese...

> Emsemble: Étymol. et Hist. 1050 adv. « l'un avec l'autre » (St Alexis, éd. Storey, 21). Du lat. vulg. * (postulé par l'ital. insieme et l'a. esp. ensiemo, REW3), réfection du lat. impérial insimul « à la fois, en même temps » d'apr. semul forme arch. de simul ayant survécu en lat. vulgaire. Bbg. LEW. 1960, p. 256 (s.v. ensemblement).

Insieme! Of course!

So it is a cognate, but sembler and ensemble branched out in archaic Latin already, that explains it.

@ЯegDwight Yeah, we should have thought of that!

I'm certain tchrist mentioned ensiemo at some point, but we only read the first and last letter of his ramblings, so what do we know.

Heh.

Oh my. It's that late already.

So anyway, zelf is not related to ensemble.

Can't find a rule.

But what about samen? Let me look it up.

@ЯegDwight Oh....

For Latin -mul- > -bl- in French.

Yeah.

Or -mbl-.

At least we end this day with a nice discussion about words, rather than one about Jasper's poo. How could that happen? Where are the usual suspects? Umconceivable.

Weird. I have zillions of rules. It is an ungreppable dead tree.

But it didn't happen in words like promulger and muliebre.

Those are not the same situation.

@ЯegDwight But the day has only just begun!

They would not have that rule.

@Cerberus mulgere is related to milk, no?

Yeah, I don't think there is a very broad rule here.

@ЯegDwight Um I don't think so...

No.

Vulgus.

promulgate < provulgus, maybe.

Yeah, that's what I thought.

They aren’t sure.

Irregular as well, but, you know.

> Or the second element may be from mulgere "to milk," used metaphorically for "cause to emerge."

Could have happened in archaic or dialectical Latin.

@ЯegDwight Oh haha.

Seriously?

> O.E. meoluc (W.Saxon), milc (Anglian), from P.Gmc. *meluks "milk" (cf. O.N. mjolk, O.Fris. melok, O.S. miluk, Du. melk, O.H.G. miluh, Ger. Milch, Goth. miluks), from *melk- "to milk," from PIE root *melg- "to wipe, to rub off," also "to stroke; to milk,"

Well I don't misremember. I'd rather not remember at all than misremember.

provulgate To make public, publish, promulgate; to disseminate, propagate.

@ЯegDwight I thought you must be joking.

That is always a possibility, I know.

@ЯegDwight Hey, this is family channel!

Let me consult Ernout.

@tchrist that's why I dropped the rest.

Where it talked about Russians "borrowing" "milk" from "Germans".

No sacrifices to Moloch.

Moloch Ness or Less Loch Ness?

Melchor.

Pejchor.

NPR had a stupid story about the egg shortage in Mexico this morning, and refused to repeat all the dirty jokes making the rounds about a falta de huevos. They only said they couldn't.

First huevos, now la leche. Messy business, all of it.

We don't need no NPR without cojones. We have our own sources to milk.

@ЯegDwight Hmm Ernout says it comes from m(e)lg- too, but says that means "traire".

I suppose that is close enough to milking.

Ah the beauty of speculation.

AKA making shit up.

Note how Speck- is German for nude pictures, so speculation takes on a whole new meaning, too.

It's also German for bacon.

Bacon is the only version I knew.

I don’t usually get my pr0n from Pigland.

Well you can rely on this chat teaching you a new thing a day. Can't always be sure what that thing will be, but it will be.

He doesn't mention any other Germanic cognates than Angl. (which I presume is Anglic) melcan, "traire".

Anglic?

That sounds pretty Germanic, right?

Whatever the Angles spoke?

Anglese.

Anglerlatein.

de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Anglerlatein

traire < trahĕre ?

Yeah.

I like how there's no translation into any language but Swedish.

Uhh we have visserslatijn.

Visser = fisher.

Fiskeskröna. So be it. The Angles spoke fiskeskröna.

I am surprised to use the word Angler in German!

@Cerberus Yeah German also has Jägerlatein.

Why not Fischer?

Ohh we don't have jagerslatijn, I think.

@Cerberus weil die Fischer mit einer Angel angeln.

Fistincrownish.

Ja, aber...

Wir sagen nimmer "hengellatijn".

Ja aber was. Sprich mit den Fischern, denn die Hand hört nicht zu!

Why is it "Angel" in German anyway?

Why not Hengel?

Well, one word at a time.

@Cerberus Because that's what you call the door hinge?

It's very logical.

I was still going to look up samen.

panic: Interrupt while on interrupt stack.

@Cerberus Well then.

@ЯegDwight But where did your Angel come from?

Is it Latinate?

I think there is some Latin word like angula?

I forgot.

@Cerberus von mittelhochdeutsch angel, althochdeutsch angul, zu althochdeutsch ango „Haken“[1]

angle /ˈæŋg(ə)l/, sb.1 arch. Etymology: OE. angul, cogn. w. OS. and OHG. angul (mod.G. angel), ONor. öngull:-*angulr; cf. L. unc-us, angulus, and Aryan root ank- to bend. 1. A fishing-hook; often, in later use, extended to the line or tackle to which it is fastened, and the rod to which the latter is attached. arch.

Ahhh same/samen/sammen comes from PIE *sem- too!!

So same and dissemble are congates! Woohoo!

waxes arch

Anyway. I'm not even here!

@ЯegDwight Ahh so they probably took it from Latin very early on?

Or was ango a Germanic word?

You and your sea-men discussions...

@tchrist It is possible that English and German got it through different ways, though that is unlikely.

Ouvert et haut ! Pour réel !

English clearly got it from Latin.

@ЯegDwight Dag!

@ЯegDwight Quam olim Abrahae promisisti et semini ejus

Etymological fallacy.

Well, it even almost is if you look at the modern meanings.