English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

they're sorta to teach the kids about taking turns and following rules, and either on how to lose gracefully or at least get the temper tantrums of losing out of your system early in life.

Matt E. Эллен

snakes and ladders is so good we play it backwards to try and make it interesting

Mitch

9:08 PM

@MattE.Эллен You're mad.

what do you mean?

Matt E. Эллен

and... wait for it...

Mitch

like try to figure out the roll sequences to get to the start?

Matt E. Эллен

I'm not going to take it anymore

@Mitch well, you start at the end

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен Is this bizarro world Sound of Music?

Cerberus

@Mitch I suppose really stupid games might work for a very young child, to play a few times.

Matt E. Эллен

9:09 PM

@Mitch where Mary Poppins is a Nazi

Mitch

The Nazis give all the Jews nice homes and their glasses and children back?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattE.Эллен How do you know she wasn't?

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 She was a little controlling you know

also was a vegetarian and didn't smoke

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch well, we only see her actions pre-WWI

Matt E. Эллен

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 The Doctor wouldn't be a Nazi, and she's clearly a time lord. So unless she's the master....

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

9:10 PM

@MattE.Эллен She could be a third time-lord

Matt E. Эллен

:-o

Mitch

or a third-time lord. That would make more sense

in upside down world

caub

@Mitch ahah, even as a sailor I didn't get it

Matt E. Эллен

The Doctor does have a female Timelord companion for a while. I don't recall her name

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I mean, all the timelords are dead, right? except surely not ALL of them.

Mitch

9:11 PM

@caub I did more research. I was wrong about 'branch of tree'. That is more related to the Dutch 'bow of ship'

so many words

so much reading in small print.

online OED is great though.

Matt E. Эллен

Romana (Doctor Who)

Romana, short for Romanadvoratrelundar, is a fictional character in the long-running British science fiction television series Doctor Who. A Time Lady from the planet Gallifrey, she is a companion to the Fourth Doctor. As a Time Lady, Romana is able to regenerate, having had two on-screen incarnations with somewhat different personalities (dubbed Romana I and Romana II by fans). Romana I was played by Mary Tamm from 1978 to 1979. When Tamm chose not to sign on for a second season, the part was recast. Romana II was played by Lalla Ward from 1979 to 1981. A third incarnation of Romana has be...

clearly Mary Poppins

Mitch

it shows frequency of word usage today (so a better 'archaic' signal)

@caub I think 'bow' must be the worst English word: two spellings, at least two pronunciations, and multiple meanings. all the same and all different

Cerberus

Dutch boeg = front of a ship.

Boog = arc, bow (weapon/rainbow/etc).

Mitch

What do you call a large hanging branch?

Cerberus

Umm.

Mitch

9:15 PM

that's not cognate with anything

Cerberus

Probably just tak.

Mitch

Cerberus

I don't think we have a special word for a big branch.

A zijtak is a "side branch", which is naturally bigger, because it would by default branch off directly from the stem.

Perhaps there is a less common / more technical word.

Mitch

"When the bough breaks, the cradle will fall...

Cerberus

But none as common as English bough.

I suspect all of those words are from bend.

Dutch buigen, "to bend, to bow (curtsy)".

Mitch

9:17 PM

and down will come cradle, ... augh how dare you put your child in a tree with such terrible structural integrity?

@Cerberus not the bow of a ship/branch idea. but all the other meanings are related to 'bend'

Cerberus

Lots of pillows?

@Mitch OK do you have checked that the ship is unrelated?

Mitch

hm... a reasonable amelioration, but there's no excuse for choosing faulty trees to begin with

@Cerberus yes, but let me check again...

Cerberus

@Mitch Dutch etymology agrees with you.

But bough is related to boeg.

And neither to the rest (to the "bend" group).

Mitch

bough (n.) Old English bog "shoulder, arm," extended in Old English to "twig, branch" (compare limb (n.1)), from Proto-Germanic *bogaz (source also of Old Norse bogr "shoulder," Old High German buog, German Bug "shoulder, hock, joint"), from PIE *bhagus "elbow, forearm" (source also of Sanskrit bahus "arm," Armenian bazuk, Greek pakhys "forearm"). The "limb of a tree" sense is peculiar to English.

Cerberus

> [about boeg "rounded front of a ship":] oe. bōg, bōh ‘schouder, arm, tak’ (ne. bough ‘(grote) tak’;

Mitch

9:20 PM

tak

Cerberus

Right.

But tak is more general, like branch.

There is also bocht (very common word), "curve [in a path, road, or, somewhat less common, coast]".

It is probably related to buigen "bend", possibly to boeg "bow [of a ship]".

So etymologists aren't sure.

It's a mess.

Sometimes two words fuse because they sound similar, even though they have entirely different roots.

Mitch

@Cerberus eggcorns

Cerberus

Sort of!

Mitch

or they diverged at one time and maybe reconverge later

like a braided river

or tear drops that fall in the rain

or starships exploding off the shoulder of Orion

sort of, not really

Cerberus

That also happens.

Especially the realistic starships.

Mitch

9:31 PM

bagel, (the Jewish deli bread thing), bog (the swampy Irish place) and buxom (the curvy zaftig place) are cognate with 'bend'

For the bow=ship front and tree limb thing: "The "limb of a tree" sense is peculiar to English."

peculiar

I had folketymoligized that the bow of a ship was like the breast of a ship.

or a bending in the front of the ship

but rereading, none of that seems to hold

Cerberus

@Mitch Nice!

@Mitch So did we all.

Even though a boeg is specified as round in definitions, also in the etymological dictionary.

Which smells of fusion (above).

Mitch

9:59 PM

@Færd Thanks for noticing that. @MattE.Эллен fixed the grammar in the most minimal way, but then that got me to edit that big long ugly sentence into something more manageable. even when Im trying to make sense, it's hard

Like playing music, in my head it sounded perfectly all right, but then I read it (mixing metaphors) and it didn't make sense/lots of false notes.

not even good enough for jazz

@M.A.R. "In how many ways can something not be right?" now we know, it is around 5 to 7