English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Kit Z. Fox

8:00 PM

Well, that's just dumb. Like "male nurses".

Unless being a woman somehow is important to the thing you're discussing.

Mitch

@KitZ.Fox When the squirrels take over, there'll be worse problems to think about.

@KitZ.Fox maybe poor specific example. but when sex is pointed out.

Dan Bron

@KitZ.Fox I do hear "males" used a lot by African-American women, at least around NYC. Maybe cop-speak has colored their language too? Not sure. But it's a symmetric usage across gender lines in AAVE so far as I'm aware of it.

Mitch

:31281001 "Hi Mom, I'm writing real slow because I know you don't read too fast"

Kit Z. Fox

@Mitch Right. Like I said. It's dumb. It's totally unnecessary in most cases.

Mitch

@KitZ.Fox my question is about when it is used, which is better/worse, women X or female X?

ktm5124

8:03 PM

@Faerd Oh I agree. I was about to make a point, but my boss came by.

Kit Z. Fox

@DanBron Yeah, I've noted that. It's an interesting idea that it might have to do with absorbing cop-speak.

ktm5124

@Faerd My point was, the Church was historically homophobic, even though homophobia is written in the Torah and not the Gospels (to the best of my knowledge)

Kit Z. Fox

@Mitch women X.

Mitch

"I'd like a woman doctor for my examination please" vs "I'd like a female doctor for my examination please"

Kit Z. Fox

Female X.

Mitch

8:03 PM

so that's two different answers

Kit Z. Fox

It depends on the context, I think.

Women writers. Female doctor.

Preference for "writer who is a woman" and "doctor who is a woman".

ktm5124

@Faerd So it doesn't matter what script you hand the actors; what matters is the actors.

Mitch

My first inclination is to use 'female X' but then I feel like I see in text only 'women X'

Kit Z. Fox

Woman doctor sounds yucky. Lady doctor sounds better, but sexy.

user208178

why not "female writer"?

Mitch

8:04 PM

@KitZ.Fox Or obviously 'writer' or 'doctor'

but when forced (as is often the case)

Færd

@ktm5124 So you branched off into something other than Godot. I was trying to find a relation.

Mitch

@KitZ.Fox de gustibus blah de blah blah. Lady always sounds weird

ktm5124

@Faerd The relation between God and Godot

If the play is about misplaced faith... or unrealistic hopes...

Mitch

You know why I'm here?

ktm5124

I think sometimes we can misplace our faith in those with power.

tchrist

8:06 PM

@ktm5124 It’s complicated.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitZ.Fox I don't think there is a good, all-purpose, fully acceptable everywhere way of saying it. Every alternative I can imagine has someone who objects to it.

or would object.

ktm5124

i.e. If you're going to believe in God, will you believe in your God, or the Holy Roman Empire's God?

Færd

@ktm5124 But Godot is an internal God, the one that you wait for or hope for or whatever deep in your heart. At least, the play's view of Godot is limited to that.

ktm5124

Yeah, Godot is undefined, even though it does bring to mind God.

Godot could actually be a man for all we're concerned. Or a holy cow.

Kit Z. Fox

@Arrowfar 'Female doctor' my brain accepts because gender and medicine seem somewhat related. 'Female writer' I don't like because my ability to express myself has nothing to do with the equipment under the hood.

Mitch

8:08 PM

Because I was waiting for expletive expletive something to download and now that it downloaded and 'installed' it just gives errors.

Færd

Not the God that social norms and rules are to be set according to.

Mitch

'Waiting for Godot' for sysadminning

Dan Bron

haha

Kit Z. Fox

Right. I was meant to be off.

Later.

user208178

@KitZ.Fox Ah

Dan Bron

8:09 PM

we need an avant garde reinterpretation of WfG with like a kernel panic right in the middle

user208178

Laters!

Færd

@ktm5124 I used God in a wider sense. Maybe I shouldn't have capitalize it.

ktm5124

@Faerd But I would be hesitant to even draw a comparison between Godot and any type of God.

tchrist

Why do we say cat got your tongue?

Mitch

@tchrist eww...

ktm5124

8:10 PM

@Faerd More concretely, I hesitate to read the play and interpret a judgment on religion, even personal beliefs and faith.

Færd

ktm5124

@Faerd I think I did branch out, and I was confusing. Sorry.

user208178

@tchrist I found this: phrases.org.uk/meanings/cat-got-your-tongue.html

Færd

No worries!

Mitch

@ktm5124 you mean we should place our faith in a different leader? Or in having too much faith at all?

user208178

8:11 PM

@Mitch um, no. why?

user208178

:)

ktm5124

@Mitch I think it's helpful to have faith in something, whether it's ourselves, our family, our parents, our country, our religion, etc.

Mitch

@Arrowfar It's probably based on some Irish fable involving cats and torture and children, all in a lilting humorous manner.

ktm5124

@Mitch But that we should carefully consider where we place our faith, so that we don't place it in a man who never shows by a willow tree.

Færd

I better go see what kind of dreams are awaiting me tonight. They're calling out to me already.

By all.

ktm5124

8:13 PM

Bye

user208178

Bye!

Dan Bron

Does anyone knwo the CogSci term of art for "police fatigue", i.e. the fact that police for the most part only encounter the criminal element in their daily service, come to view humanity as a whole as basically iniquitous? That society would fall apart left to its own devices?

there is some term, but I forget what it is, precisely

Mitch

@ktm5124 It's not a beech tree?

slaps forehead

ktm5124

@Mitch I think it's a willow tree.

Mitch

Gotta run

ktm5124

8:14 PM

@Mitch There's a reference to it in the play.

user208178

see ya

Mitch

I'm hanging out by a beech tree when it should have been at a a willow

user208178

@ktm5124 Are you religious if I may ask?

ktm5124

@Arrowfar I'm trying to figure that out, but I really do like Christian values.

@Arrowfar I've been going to church lately.

user208178

ah I see

ktm5124

8:15 PM

@Arrowfar In the Torah, they say 'an eye for an eye'. In the Gospels they say, 'turn the other cheek'. I often prefer the values in the Gospels.

Mitch

@DanBron habituation

ktm5124

There's more of an emphasis on humility in the gospels. Love not only your neighbor but your enemy.

What's so funny is that the Torah is so much more nationalistic and concerned with conquest... And yet the Church became the conqueror.

The Torah talks about stoning people to death and yet the Church held the Inquisition.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@ktm5124 A lot of those same verses are in the Bible.

ktm5124

What do you mean?

Dan Bron

@Mitch Thanks, but a quick search doesn't totally convince me that's the term psychologists use.

Mitch

8:18 PM

So maybe Godot was waiting at the wrong tree and it was all a misunderstanding. In fact he was there 15 minutes early, exactly in case of difficulties like these.

@DanBron ok. cynical

cynical is what normal people call it.

you don't need cognitive science to explain what happens all the time.

ktm5124

You need to forget cognitive science if you want a chance at explaining it.

Dan Bron

sure, the result is cynicism, but what do psychologists call the stimulus or process of law enforcement (broadly) becoming cynical

no, I do need the word, for a specific conversation I'm involved in

ktm5124

Honestly I think a lot of psychology is intellectual fraud. Every ten years they recant their opinion from ten years ago.

user208178

@ktm5124 I see. I have never read Torah or Gospels, just come across verses at random sometimes. I'm a muslim so I have read some Quran. I'm sure in Arabic we have similar phrases as well. I can't think of them off the top of my mind now.

Rejlan Givens

@KitZ.Fox Yes there is something I needed your assistance with

and hope you will give a little attention to it

ktm5124

8:22 PM

@Dan Bron disillusionment?

@Dan Bron hardened to reality?

Dan Bron

@ktm5124 Thanks, that's got the right meaning but it's not the specific term I need for my google search. I appreciate it though.

ktm5124

I see. Also "jaded".

Dan Bron

No, it's not so much "hardened to reality", it's that the small slice or subset or reality they're regularly exposed to colors their perception of humanity as a while

*whole

it's a well-studied phenomenon, like battle fatigue or PSTD

ktm5124

Oh.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@ktm5124 I mean the Old Testament of the Bible describes laws whose punishments include death by stoning.

ktm5124

8:24 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yeah, I'm just pointing out how the Jews use the Old Testament as their bible, yet they're not the ones who gained the reputation of burning people at stake.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@ktm5124 Well, Jews had all kinds of bad reputations, mostly due to xenophobia. But Christians literally did burn people at the stake, so the reputation wasn't exactly unearned. Also the Jews weren't the group with the power.

ktm5124

Exactly.

So what matters more than the script they are handed, is who has power and how just they are.

The Church had power, their Gospels told them to love their enemy as well as their neighbor, and to turn the other cheek. Yet they burned people at the stake.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@ktm5124 To be fair that's just ONE of the messages in the Bible. There are lots of other messages you can also choose.

ktm5124

I'm talking about the Gospels in particular.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

But the Gospels aren't the only relevant books.

ktm5124

8:30 PM

From what I've read, the Gospels give some really good guidance.

Do you know of any nasty messages in the New Testament?

MετάEd

@ktm5124 Turning the other cheek is a great way to stay warm at those wintertime immolations.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@ktm5124 in the NT: yes. Just about anything Paul wrote contains something offensive in it.

ktm5124

The reason I bring this up, is because I was raised Jewish, yet after reading most of the Torah and some of the Gospels, I'm more inclined to the Gospels.

MετάEd

@tchrist In @KitZ.Fox's absence you might be the right one to respond to Rejlan above

ktm5124

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Oh, can you cite any verses?

Dan Bron

8:32 PM

I take the fact that every religion on the planet, even the ones lacking actual deities, has committed atrocities of various flavors, as a proof that the particulars of any given scripture are not to blame.

ktm5124

@Dan Brown Yeah I agree, I think you should blame the people and not the religion.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I was raised Catholic, yet when I learned that the Bible was assembled by a committee at the behest of Rome (council of Nicea), and when I read the OT, I decided the entire book was rubbish.

Rejlan Givens

meta I'm slowly but surely becoming your fixation man

no

I'm going to talk with the one who says is the moderator of the forum

and i'm going to talk about you man

hope the guy is not your buddy

ktm5124

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Michelangelo was commissioned by the Pope to paint the Sistine Chapel. It was not his idea. Does that make the painting rubbish?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@ktm5124 I'd have to look them up. But there's the famous passage where he says that wives must be obedient to their husbands. Or the one where he says women should not teach or speak in Church.

@ktm5124 Depends on what you need it for.

MετάEd

8:34 PM

@RejlanGivens Unfortunately @KitZ.Fox had to go. I believe she will respond as soon as she is available. You can wait, or we can help you find one of the other moderators.

Dan Bron

@RejlanGivens The moderator who responded to you, Kit Z. Fox, has left. And whether or not MetaEd is her friend/buddy, her duty is to impartial enforcement of the rules of the site, first. So you'll get fair treatment.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

The thing is that 400 years after Jesus was around, a bunch of old guys sat in a room and decided "This is what is true", then by fiat they declared it to be true. It's not a very empirical way of doing things.

Dan Bron

But that cuts both ways: if she finds the comments which bothered you are warranted, then that's fair treatment too, and you should consider her advice.

Rejlan Givens

no thank you man, I'd rather not discuss the problem I have with you, with you

ktm5124

I read the Bible with a grain of salt. It was written by people so it's imperfect.

Rejlan Givens

8:35 PM

:)

no rush

tomorrow

MετάEd

@RejlanGivens I am not one of the moderators. I am offering to help find you a moderator.

tchrist

@RejlanGivens Is your concern that you are being treated unfairly? How? By downvotes or close votes? By comments asking you to improve the quality of your postings? Do you think those things happen to you alone?

Dan Bron

Rejian: If you like, you can also post a question with your concerns over at English Language & Usage Meta, where all the mods can see it at once, and answer over time. Also the rest of the (non-mod) community can weigh in. Pros and cons to that.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@ktm5124 But logically speaking, its imperfections make it useless for its role. If it is written by humans (and I agree it is), then how can any part of it be considered authoritative?

Rejlan Givens

no tchrist we can't go in circles, if you really want to deal with this problem and help me then you'll need to take a look at the post

tchrist

8:37 PM

I have done so.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@ktm5124 But we should defer this discussion while we deal with Rejlan's problems

Rejlan Givens

is that post against the forum rules?

ktm5124

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 If Einstein was wrong about just one thing, does that render hsi theories useless?

Dan Bron

To tchrist's point, I just effectively ran off a user (he deleted his question) by pestering him to include his own research. It's a broad-spectrum death ray.

Rejlan Givens

I'm not even asking for an explanation

just want to know if i can post questions like that here

that's all

Dan Bron

8:38 PM

@RejlanGivens Can you link to the specific post? I missed the specific Q you are worried about.

ktm5124

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Einstein was famously skeptical of quantum mechanics, and his positions on QM may not have always been correct. But he sure was right about a lot of things.

Rejlan Givens

if I can't i'll look somewhere else for help

yes Dan

give me a second

tchrist

Which posting in particular?

Rejlan Givens

Is the verb "lead" used in the sense of "getting someone to do something by a cunning" Does the phrase "lead someone to say something" make sense? Also, would it make sense if I turned it around e.g. "Don't let be led into saying that!". Would the preposition "on" change anything: "Don't let be led on into saying that!".

ktm5124

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 My point is that you can take things from the Bible that you agree with, and make that a part of yourself. You don't have to internalize everything that you read from it.

tchrist

8:39 PM

1

Q: Lead someone to make a statement

Is the verb "lead" used in the sense of "getting someone to do something by a cunning" Does the phrase "lead someone to say something" make sense? Also, would it make sense if I turned it around e.g. "Don't let be led into saying that!". Would the preposition "on" change anything: "Don't let be ...

vocabulary

Rejlan Givens

yes

i got the same bot waffle on previous posts

tchrist

You’ve asked about usage, but you have not shown any research.

Rejlan Givens

all I wanted to know is whether it goes against the forum rules

ktm5124

"If it weren’t for the message of mercy and pity in Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount, I wouldn’t want to be a human being. I would just as soon be a rattlesnake." -- Kurt Vonnegut

Rejlan Givens

okay

tchrist

8:40 PM

So we do not know what you think you know or why you think that.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RejlanGivens Here you are asking how a word is used. It is a rule that you need to cite which research you've done before asking.

Dan Bron

@RejlanGivens Your question was dispositively answered by the authority of a single source: the dictionary

That lends credibility to the claim that you didn't do a whole lot of prior research

tchrist

Also, the Q&A site is not a "forum".

Dan Bron

such as, for example, looking up the word in the dictionary first...

Rejlan Givens

no Dan

I told you

tchrist

8:41 PM

I’ve found no reference to cunning duplicity in any reference regarding that verb.

Rejlan Givens

nobody who has reason asks questions for which he can find answer in dictionaries

okay

tchrist

So the burden of proof must be on you.

Dan Bron

your answer was literally in the dictionary, as in you can mechnically look up the word and see its meanings, etymology, usage, examples, etc.

ktm5124

@RejlanGivens Actually I often do this from laziness. Reason sometimes tells you that it's more efficient to be lazy.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RejlanGivens You need to show that. Because EL&U is not a dictionary look up service, so you need to explain which dictionaries you've looked in, or which definitions you have problems with.

Rejlan Givens

8:42 PM

How I see it, half the posts on the forum offer much less information about whatever you consider is research done

tchrist

That's one question. A note was posted asking you to update your question with your research. Why are you so upset about this?

Rejlan Givens

and they are not frequented by moderators

botting on those threads

Dan Bron

I do think if you're not able to use the dictionary to answer such questions for yourself, you would be better off in English Language Learners. Anyone who asks on ELU is expected to be familiar and comfortable with a dictionary.

MετάEd

@RejlanGivens That is true.

tchrist

@RejlanGivens There are no bots.

Rejlan Givens

8:42 PM

because it doesn't make sense to me

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RejlanGivens That is neither here nor there. The fact that others have posted low-quality posts doesn't mean you are free to do so.

Dan Bron

rules may or may not make sense, but they're rules

Rejlan Givens

and I don't understand what kind of research is expected from a person who obviously put in effort into finding the answer

Dan Bron

and if you want to stay in the game, you have to abide them

ktm5124

Reijan Givens is like the Pozzo of our play.

Rejlan Givens

8:43 PM

okay ktm

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 that's what is needed, evidence based religion

Dan Bron

@RejlanGivens In the case of "what does this word mean" or "how can I use this word", the research expected is, at a minimum, to look it up in a dictionary and tell us what you found, and why it doesn't answer the question to your satisfaction

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch Or at least logically consistent religion

Dan Bron

As in find a dictionary, look up the word, cite it (i.e. name it) in your Q, and quote the parts you think are relevant, then identify any lingering douvts.

Mitch

@DanBron they're more like suggestions or favored tendencies rather than rules

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8:44 PM

@RejlanGivens It's not obvious to us what effort you put in. Where is that demonstrated in your question?

Rejlan Givens

that is not a question that i could find an answer in a dictionary Dan

if i could i wouldn't have asked it

tchrist

@RejlanGivens You have, in essence, asked whether to lead can mean to trick, yet you have shown no evidence of having consulted any reference material. This suggests that you have not done so. Therefore the position is sensible.

Dan Bron

@RejlanGivens The answer you upvoted and commented thanks on was literally from a dictionary, which is proof positive you could find your answer in a dictionary.

Rejlan Givens

you know where this discussion would lead us tchrist

tchrist

@RejlanGivens No, I don't. Why don't you say?

Rejlan Givens

8:45 PM

me citing every possible dictionary on the net to prove that such information is not contained in dictionaries

Dan Bron

As I said, if you don't think yourself capable of that level of dictionary usage (though I think you're selling yourself short if you believe that), then you should consider using ELL instead of ELU.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RejlanGivens How about citing one?

Rejlan Givens

yeah Dan

tchrist

@RejlanGivens Let’s start with just one.

Rejlan Givens

Dan I don't want to sound patronizing you man

Dan Bron

8:46 PM

You're not sounding patronizing, you're sounding obstinate.

ktm5124

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 But there's nothing logical about feelings or faith.

Mitch

@DanBron I like mine with extra padding

Rejlan Givens

okay

tchrist

Every time you say man, you sound patronizing and condescending. Is this deliberate?

Rejlan Givens

i've used linguistics forum

ktm5124

8:46 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Consider how someone makes us feel when a relationship goes awry. There's nothing logical about that.

Dan Bron

The answer you upvoted and called helpful came direct from a dictionary, so your pleas that "I couldn't find the answer I wanted in a dictionary" falls flat.

Rejlan Givens

i can show you my level of understanding of English linguistics

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@ktm5124 Let's discuss this later, man.

Rejlan Givens

if that is questionable

Dan Bron

@RejlanGivens Twice now you've been told "forum" is a dangerous word on SE. I suggest you use "site" or "Q&A" site.

Mitch

8:47 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 yeah man

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch fixed.

ktm5124

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yeah you don't sound too interested.

Rejlan Givens

what I've see on these threads i posted is people who never showed that they even undrestand the questions i asked

that is my honest opinion

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@ktm5124 oh, actually... I'm restraining myself from going full Shiny and New on you :p

Rejlan Givens

no sign that they understand what i asked

ktm5124

8:48 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 How old are you?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

There's srs bizness going on

Rejlan Givens

the sentence structure, construction, phrasal categories i asked about

nothing

Dan Bron

@RejlanGivens Then it's worth your while editing the question to clarify what you're asking? Ultimately, it's you who want something from the site, and not vice-versa.

Kit Z. Fox

I'm on mobile at the moment. Just popped in to say that I think @Rejlan and I should discuss this privately tomorrow.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@ktm5124 old enough to know better, old enough to realize it's not worth doing anyway

ktm5124

8:48 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Have you graduated college? Or younger than that?

Not an answer.

Rejlan Givens

Dan let me cite my post from the linguistics forum so you get an idea

of my level of understanding English

give me a sec

Dan Bron

@RejlanGivens Also, this might be helpful, because I do think you're trying to act in good faith here: check out OneLook.com for a "meta dictionary" that searches many online dictionaries simultaneously. I use it all the time.

Kit Z. Fox

And asking how old someone is isn't really appropriate.

ktm5124

How so?

Dan Bron

@RejlanGivens I don't think your level of understanding of English is in question herE? Just your level of understanding of the site's charter and rules?

Rejlan Givens

8:49 PM

On this webpage http://www.lel.ed.ac.uk/~gpullum/grammar/nonfiniteclauses.html prof.Geoffrey Pullum's explains basic syntactic tests used in distinguishing raised from ordinary subjects/verbs. The verb "stop" passes the first test for raising verbs: "It stopped raining", which shows that "stop" doesn't impose selection restriction on the type of the subject, taking "dummy it" in this sentence. The other test is passivizing the non-finite catenative complement, applied to this sentence it would be:

you check the entire post along with the answer

hey Kit

Dan Bron

why? what information do you think it will provide me?

Rejlan Givens

didn't know that was a lady name

Kit Z. Fox

@ktm5124 it's generally irrelevant and too personal.

Rejlan Givens

nice too meet you

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 aw... Snap!

Rejlan Givens

8:50 PM

so you are the person in charge here

ktm5124

@Kit. Z. Fox But saying that a whole book which 2.2 billion people appreciate is useless, is a very young thing to say.

Rejlan Givens

Can I ask you to give me a definitive answer about my post

Kit Z. Fox

@ktm5124 also an atheist thing to say.

@RejlanGivens one of them, yes.

Rejlan Givens

okay

can you please take a look at this question i asked

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@ktm5124 Honestly, I will debate this with you another time when the chat room isn't busy with honest work. Or we can start a new room.

Rejlan Givens

8:51 PM

and tell me if that works for you for this forum or not

ktm5124

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Okay sure.

Kit Z. Fox

@RejlanGivens I'd prefer to speak with you privately tomorrow if that works for you.

Rejlan Givens

of course Kit

no rush

Kit Z. Fox

I can't respond well on mobile.

Mitch

@ktm5124 he's an old soul

ktm5124

8:52 PM

@KitZ.Fox I prefer the Chomsky type of atheist to the Sam Harris type of atheist. I think Sam Harris is a study in arrogance.

Rejlan Givens

I understand

tomorrow then

bye everyone

Dan Bron

I prefer the Dan Bron kind of atheist, m'self.

bye @RejlanGivens

Kit Z. Fox

In the meantime, it would be helpful for you all to focus on other topics.

Rejlan Givens

sorry Kit I can't until I have this cleared up

ktm5124

Chomsky says that most atheists follow the state religion, anyway.

Mitch

8:53 PM

I prefer the ham and cheese atheist

Rejlan Givens

I mean I literaly can't

Mitch

s/atheist/sandwich

Dan Bron

haha, I think a lot of people would like to append /g to that regex...

MετάEd

@DanBron And a % prefix

Kit Z. Fox

Not Mitch.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8:54 PM

The Incomprehensible Room Redux

Controversial chat that isn't suitable for the main ELU room

Dan Bron

@MετάEd What does the % prefix do? I'm a PCRE kinda regexer

MετάEd

@DanBron Does it to every line of the input.

Dan Bron

Ah.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Please let's move religious chatter, and other OT controversies there.^^^

Dan Bron

Is that a vi thing?

tchrist

8:55 PM

@DanBron yes

It's a short cut for 1,$ to specify which range of lines to apply something to.

Dan Bron

I thought $ was EOL and G was EOF?

I'm rusty on vi .

tchrist

@DanBron As a motion command, yes. But that's vi. We're talking about ex colon commands.

:1,$s/foo/bar/gc

Dan Bron

What's the 'c'?

MετάEd

@tchrist Leave my ex's colon out of it.

tchrist

confirm

Dan Bron

8:57 PM

ugh.

I'm a big fan of perl6's new Grammars. Much easier for us plebe to use to construct DSLs.

tchrist

Understandably.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@ktm5124 if you want to continue the conversation we were having, I created a room, see the link above

Dan Bron

Though I think Larry & the gang only went halfway with array-orientation features. Though I say that as a known APL snob.

Mitch

I'm preemptorially creating a chat room for emacs people vs vi idiots

No judgement

@DanBron APL? Good times

@MετάEd I think we're totally in your ex's colon

Dan Bron

@Mitch Yeah, and mostly its successors (J in particular). It colors my perception & interaction with all other languages. Whenever I have to stoop down to writing "for(..." or "while(..." I go ugh.

That's what I was so psyched about perl6 and stayed on the bandwagon for 14 years: it promised to combine the best aspects of the two language families I enjoy most, because they force me to say the least: APL & Perl.

Mitch

9:06 PM

@DanBron ikr! Writing a full lambda calculus compiler in 7 characters!

Dan Bron

@Mitch Including lambda!

Mitch

Wait did everybody go somewhere else to talk about religion and their age?

ASL/denomination?

user208178

yes here: chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/42998/…

Mitch

Woo hoo! I'm back!

How about that bad/lad split?

Dan Bron

you mean what chad went mad?

Mitch

9:18 PM

The imperative you say? How about the categorical imperative?

Dan Bron

The Sears Roebuck Categorial Imperative. Act as if you'd will the entire world to shop!

Mitch

If your punched out paper is disgruntled, you have...

A mad chad

And if it is staying at a Russian vacation home it's a

Mad Chad dacha

Anonymous

@DanBron Note that ELL has a pre-defined close reason for questions that are entirely answerable with a dictionary.

Anonymous

@KitZ.Fox I really prefer the ticker, personally.

Anonymous

I don't know if I'm in here often enough for my opinion to count, though :-)

Anonymous

9:28 PM

@Mitch I love that word! And photoplethysmogram.

user208178

Time to hit the sack. Night all.

tchrist

@Mitch Done.

MετάEd

9:58 PM

@tchrist That video made me mad.

@Mitch And if it's really on a soundstage then it's a mock mad chad dacha.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

well, time for me to go. see y'all tomorrow

Mitch

Just when things are starting up

@MετάEd but if they're sincere about staging it, it's a...

Mock mad chad dacha autentico!

user208178

10:17 PM

why can't the whole world have one single language? which is a silly thing to say, but still just saying because when I was learning English conditional sentences were a torture to understand especially "unreal" conditional. Still some unreal conditional sentences give me a very bad headache.

user208178

Conditional sentences and backshifting. The hardest for learners I believe.

user208178

Backshifting is pain in the neck.

Mitch

@Arrowfar if English were the only language, we'd all have headaches.

If everyone has a headache then no one has a headache

user208178

wait... you forgot to write "QED".

Cerberus

@tchrist Nope.

Perseus lets you determine morphology, though.

In order to be able to assign parts of speech and the semantic or syntactic function of a word or a sequence of words in a sentence, one needs to understand life and the world from a human perspective.

No computer can do this yet, not in any language.

The Incomprehensible Room Redux

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…