Hamlet complains incessantly about his predicament.

He stops complaining and he still dies.

I'd rather solve the problem than pretend it's not there. Unless it's not a real problem and my beef smells.

@ktm5124 Job 13:15: “Aunque él me quitare la vida, en él confiaré” —Jorge Luis Borges, “Deutsches Requiem”, El Aleph, 1949.

@tchrist No! The pellet with the poison's in the flagon with the dragon!

@tchrist I like that verse. Thanks for sharing.

When our lives are snuffed out, our values still remain.

@Faerd Yes, better to solve problems than ignore them. Although sometimes it's difficult to formulate the problem, and even harder to find the solution.

Alas that in the fullness of time even the finest poetry must lose its sweet rhyme.

Who's to say that the time lost in our universe doesn't get recorded in another?

Or even that is is truly lost?

it*

No edit?

Or even that it is truly lost?*

@ktm5124 So we should wait under a tree for Godot to come and find the problem and fix it?

@Faerd I have two responses. First, V + E could have applied themselves and created meaning for their lives, apart from waiting for Godot.

Second, even if they had done so, it would still just be another way of passing the time. Reductio ad absurdum.

So what if they choose to pass their time this way instead of by doing nothing but waiting?

So it's a question of how do we formulate the problem.

If formulating a problem is itself a problem that needs formulating, then we'll get nowhere.

Well, is the question, how can V+E create more meaningful lives?

Or is the question, how can V+E find meaning in their lives thus far?

In other words. How can they do better than waiting under a tree? Or, given that they have waited under a tree all this time, how can we see their lives as meaningful?

hi everyone

Since we often can't choose the lives we live, perhaps it's better to choose the way we see them?

anyone here to help me with procedures

procedure name(argument(s): type1, argument(s): type 2, ... );
   < local declarations >
begin
   < procedure body >
end;

demonstrates surgical procedures

oh uh ... where is that damn passport?

ok not funny

but I'm sure you can do better than that

only that wasn't your best

here's my question guyes

I'd like to report this problem with warnings i get on my threads

so it is cleared up once for all

and I know if I can use this site or not

I'm not very good with knitting.

ok but i wasn't asking for instruction about knitting

I mean, you're aware this is an English site, not a programming site, right?

I'm not sure which way to turn

so if there is a place

For programming, you want Stack Overflow or one of its brothers.

no no

For the dick-unscrewing, I think you want a doctor. Maybe one in, like, Tijuana.

I get this on every question I post

And what do you take away from that advice?

I'm stuck here

Get thee to a burroría.

How do you alter subsequent questions in light of that advice?

literaly

man Dan

stuck with something on my dick

If it's literal, then you REALLY need to see a doctor.

I take it that i need help

with unscrewing

Especially if the something also has a heartbeat.

Or a power cord.

it has

Have you tried unplugging it?

please show some compassion for my problem Dan

I've tried reasoning with the thing

tried unscrewing

both directions

It's hard to show passion when you describe your problem as "unscrewing someone from my dick"

and finally realized the problem is bigger than me

then refuse to answer my follow-up questions when you really do describe the problem

well that's how the problem feels

(1) What do you take away from those "show your research" comments, and (2) how do you alter your subsequent questions in light of that advice?

I take away that someone is picking on me because

of some problem they have

with me, for reasons unknown to me

and i'm looking for arbitration

If you asked a bunch of questions about Venezuelan Beaver Cheese in a row, and every single one of them got the comment "Questions about Venezuelan Beaver Cheese are off-topic on this site" and then closed, and you came in here and asked us "What do I do about this? How do I ask about Venezuelan Beaver Cheese", what kind of advice would you be looking for?

my subsequent questions perfectly reflected my desire to get an answer to those questions

@ktm5124 There's a difference between waiting and hoping. You can hope for whatever you dream of, but you can only wait for something that you know is going to happen. If you spend time waiting for something, its value can give value to your time. But if all you have is unrealistic hope, then it's just a dream. We can dream that it has value; that's all.

man

But did it reflect an understanding and internalization of the advice you were given on prior questions?

More specifically: did you add more details about your own research and conclusions in subsequent questions?

No and I think that the person who wrote that advice should have an understanding and internalization of what he said

@RejlanGivens Have you considered the possibility that you might be reaching the wrong conclusion?

that is a neccessary condition for me to have an understanding and internalization of what he said

"Internalization" means what?

yeah tchrist

@RejlanGivens To request arbitration I suggest you get the attention of a moderator.

I'm a contemplative person

I'll need a moderate moderator for that

You have to understand a lot of the users on this site have battle fatigue. We get asked questions all day long, 24 hours a day, 7 days week, which could easily be answered with a dictionary, thesaurus, or quick google search. We have developed an allergic reaction to those, and now ask all users to do fundamental research first, then demonstrate that they've done so in the body of their questions.

so you think so

@tchrist The outcome of the act of internalizing.

and have you ever asked yourself Dan

I have asked myself "Dan, do you want a sandwich?"

I’ve looked over your questions on which such remarks have been made, and I can see why they happened.

And the answer is almost always "yes"

If i could have got that answer from a dictionary, what would be my motivation to come ask someone for help with that

did you?

@RejlanGivens To get the attention of a moderator, you can flag the other person's post. When prompted for an explanation of the flag, ask for arbitration.

i mean

oh here is the guy

@Faerd But the waiting in the play is a form of hope.

@RejlanGivens Another way to get the attention of a moderator is to post at meta.english.stackexchange.com.

@RejlanGivens I ask myself that constantly with questions on ELU, where the answers are very very frequently *right in the dictionary.

ok man

ok meta whatever

Who says that "lead" means to trick somebody?

Which for some reason, a lot of OPs want to avoid using. I still don't know why. It's a mystery.

@Faerd Should it be called Hoping for Godot?

You need to show why you believe this.

@ktm5124 Yes. I don't sympathize with that kind of waiting.

listen man

@Faerd I see.

how about you take it easy man

I don't see anyone taking it anything but easy here.

let me use the forum man

it is not easy one me

I'm trying to use this forum and I can't

@RejlanGivens And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

tchrist you're doing better man

that is funny

That is beautiful.

I like that verse.

opens a bar named the mote & beam

Oh it's a verse?

From Matthew.

Matthew 10?

No, Matthew 7

> Quid autem vides festucam in oculo fratris tui et trabem in oculo tuo non vides?

biblegateway.com/passage/…

@RejlanGivens It's weird, but "forum" is a 4-letter word on StackExchange. I'd avoid using it, because people will throw it back at you, in an obnoxious fashion. In terms of a site which is easier to use for non-native speakers, have you tried out English Language Learners?

@Faerd Yeah I agree that V+E could have pursued attainable dreams, and that this is easier on the soul.

@Faerd But let's say they became doctors and cured an illness. In the fullness of time, si it really more meaningful than waiting under a tree?

@tchrist Given that Latin is so synthetic, what proportion of the ~1trillion permutations of that sentence would be grammatically valid, and of those, which would retain the meaning, more-or-less.

@ktm5124 that's so annoying

@RejlanGivens I'm a moderator on English Language & Usage. Is there something I can help you with?

@Mitch It's not something I necessarily believe, but I think it's part of the absurdity of the play.

"They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more."

@DanBron You mean by permuting the word order?

yeah

@ktm5124 On the other hand, V - E + F = 2

That's Descartes 3:16

@ktm5124 I'm not concerned with what is easier on my soul.

Graph theory?

@Mitch And 2 + 2 = 5 for large values of 2.

@Faerd So the question is: In the fullness of time, is becoming a doctor and curing an illness more meaningful than waiting under a tree?

@ktm5124 In the fullness of time, there will be no such thing as illness, cures, trees, waiting, or meaning.

@Dan Bron And I think that's part of the absurdity.

@ktm5124 If that is what the play makes you ask yourself, then it's a good question only if there's a realistic answer to it.

@ktm5124 Fair enough. At least Sisyphus is happy, anyway.

I'm hungry. Is my eating something now more meaningful than remaining still and not eating anything?

@DanBron If my cognitive sense are working properly, I'm guessing you'll probably want it with Venezuelan beaver cheese.

But not mayo! What, are you crazy!

I actually do find mayo gross. I find eggs in general pretty gross. Don't know why. Hold-over from being a fussy eater as a kid.

> Don't let the sound of your own wheels drive you crazy

la la la la, la la la la, la la la.

nice tune

@Faerd I think the play makes me wonder about how I spend my time. It actually makes me more invested in spending my time meaningfully.

@Mitch oh damn it.

@Faerd It does invite me to define what I find meaningful, even though the play denies meaning to anything.

@tchrist I never understood that. a beam is pretty big. In fact so large it really can't 'go' in your eye, as much as crush your entire head. But maybe that's just me. Let who here who doesn't have a beam crushing their head get the f out of the way before it does!

It's such an old, obvious question to raise.

@Faerd I think this is why religions speak of faith - faith that the way we live our lives will be appreciated.

On a similar note, I've always been bugged by the philosophical notion of an "authentic life". All lives, by definition, are "authentic", even those which are consciously imitative, or facades, or empty, or whatever, because that's how those people authentically want and choose to live.

@Mitch I read the word ferule the other day. It's not very common in English.

@Faerd In the play there is no faith, except for... a faith in Godot.

@Faerd Taken that way, Beckett almost seems to be casting absurdity on faith.

@DanBron throws forum back

waits for fish

@Mitch It's a nice bit of hyperbole.

Euclid 3:16

/me teaches Mitch how to fish

@DanBron goes to a burroria

@ktm5124 Yes.

Minnow minnow take-all you far son.

gets the fish tacos instead

Euclid 3:16 a geometric definition of faith.

I really enjoyed the mini revelation that "burrito" is the diminutive of "burro", because it's so heavily laden as a food item

@Faerd I think it's possible to separate the man from the writer. The views of the playwright might not be his own views, or they might be.

@KitZ.Fox I know. I thought it was a little dark for just some love trouble.

I can also still taste the shock I felt when I realized "cigarette" is the goddamn diminutive of cigar

@Faerd But the play's point of view seems to be an atheist absurdist view. Or maybe a satire of faith.

Which would be a really atheistic thing to do!

Or maybe we can interpret it differently. It's a satire of misplaced faith.

@DanBron Authenticity is great thing to have. If you can fake that, you'll go far

//rimshot

> Two Lee County Sheriff’s deputies in Alabama who were allegedly denied service at a Taco Bell location in Phenix City can rest easy knowing that the female employee responsible for the hateful act has been fired.

ba dum, tish

Be careful where you place your faith... The play seems to say. Because you have to place it somewhere.

"female employee" because the employee's gender was important to the story?

@ktm5124 A satire of unrealistic hope, in my terms.

@DanBron Noyce!

@Faerd Yeah, I like that.

@Faerd I like that interpretation the best, because it doesn't put anyone down (the atheists, the theists, the humanists, etc.) Only those with unrealistic dreams.

@DanBron Well, no, not really., That's the point.

@KitZ.Fox I didn't realize that deputy was in the masculine. Perhaps this is an Alabamba thing.

@KitZ.Fox I've found cop-talk tends to color police reportage. The police always fully characterize people, because they ahve to do so on the beat to communicate with other offices who havent' seen the person in question.

@DanBron Then why no age and ethnicity?

@KitZ.Fox I know it's the point, but it's the kind of point that stabs me in uncomfortable places.

@KitZ.Fox He expressed a need for arbitration. I believe he thinks I am interfering with his use of the main site. If there's anything else you need, links etc., let me know.

@KitZ.Fox did somebody else get shot, or is this just idiotic reporting?

@Mitch This was between shootings.

@Arrowfar Woody Allen

@KitZ.Fox I do often see age and ethnicity reported superfluously in police-action related articles, because they often involve quotes from cops, or paraphrased quotes from cops.

@ktm5124 It's a conservative stand on what it's all about. But what will you do with the similarity between Godot and God?

@DanBron Are you on mobile? It's hard to track your referents when you don't link your messages.

I haven't read this particular article, so I Can't comment, except to say maybe headline space premiums dominated the cost function.

@Faerd I would call it a warning. "Be careful how you think of God..."

@DanBron I hear you. It's just weird is all.

@DanBron that's meta-authentic, or as the hipsters say, 'metauthentic' because that' how it would have been said in the original greek

@Faerd People in power have ascribed things to God's will and preference all across history, so yeah, I think it's important to be cautious how much you believe in others, especially those who are politically powerful.

@KitZ.Fox No, I'm on a regular computer (laptop), but I find it obnoxious to have to clck somethign with the mouse to respond to it directly.

I'm also fairly unversed in the norms of chat.

@Faerd To my knowledge, there's no homophobic passages in the Gospels, yet there are some really explicit ones in the Torah.

@Mitch I'm totally stealing "metauthentic". No attribution, either. All mine. And you can't complain, I'm being authentic.

@DanBron hmm... that could easily be the explanation of the irrelevant wording. Someone stated it, and then the journalist didn't want to modify the bad wording.

@DanBron Oh. Normally it's no big deal, just when there is a lot of conversation it makes it easier to follow.

I can't stand "female" as a noun meaning "human woman". Gets right up my snout.

@Arrowfar It's really hard to judge him at one sitting. He's super funny, and he has so many classic movies. And yet he is a vile bastard in home life.

It's like cheetahs and giraffes have females .. we have women.

Einstein supposedly was a jerk to his first wife.

Yeah, I dislike it when women are referred to as "females". It robs us of humanity.

@ktm5124 There's no social structure in the play. I think the impact of religion on society is not under question. It's about internal belief.

We're nothing but parts when referred to that way.

@ktm5124 I din't think God would like you giving away all his secrets like that.

@KitZ.Fox Exactly. Though I'm not a woman, that's what bugs me. Also bugs me with "male", but I feel like that's use less frequently as invective.

@ktm5124 Sorry I type so slowly. I'm not good at thinking in English.

At least in that article it was a female employee, which implies a female human.

@DanBron successfully trolled

@DanBron Yeah. You don't hear "I was out with my girlfriends when these males walked in."

@KitZ.Fox don't be specisit! Haven't you ever seen Dogs With Jobs

Unless you mean the Spanish males. Then maybe.

@KitZ.Fox what do you think of 'women X' vs 'female X'? Like, when it's intentionally being pointed out 'women writers' vs 'female writers'?