English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

tchrist

11:00 PM

Wait, kitten as a verb doesn’t mean to kit something out?

RegDwigнt

Actually, is there a "to kit" in English? I though there was but it doesn't look like there is.

At least LEO tells me I'm wrong.

Cerberus

@tchrist No.

tchrist

Two verbs "to kit" in English.

Cerberus

It is from the noun kit, which is a kind of paste that hardens or something. I think.

Probably from English?

Dichtkitten and vastkitten, are what I hear most.

RegDwigнt

Friggin Wiktionary does not even have a German section in the kitten article.

45 mins ago, by tchrist

But why does the Wiktionary have it not?

tchrist

11:02 PM

There’s a Scots version of to kit meaning to kitten or to kittle.

RegDwigнt

@Cerberus yeah mostly used in Schiffs- and Flugzeugbau.

tchrist

> kittle /ˈkɪt(ə)l/, v.1 Now dial. and chiefly Sc.

Forms: (1 vbl. sb. kitelung, 4 vbl. sb. kitlynge), 5 kytill, -ylle, (? kitell, ketil), 6 kyttyl(l, -il, kittil(l, kitill, (3rd sing. kytlis, vbl. sb. kitling), 7– kittle.

Etymology: ME. kytylle, kityll; cf. late OE. sb. kitelung, ME. kitlynge; cognate with OS. kitilôn (MDutch kitelen, kittelen, ketelen, Dutch kittelen, kietelen), OHG. chizzilôn, chuzzilôn (MHG. kitzeln, kütz-, mod.G. kitzeln), ONor. kitla (Sw. kittla); not known outside Teutonic, and generally supposed to be of onomatopœic origin, with a double form in kit- and kut-.

RegDwigнt

Between Kytylle and Charybdis.

tchrist

Pick any two people on the street who are not your current interlocutors, and they will have no idea what the hell you’re referencing.

Even if you spell it right.

RegDwigнt

Kitt

Kitt ist die Bezeichnung für ein Klebe- und Dichtungsmittel. Historisch wurde der Begriff „Kitt“ (auch Kütt) allgemein für sehr verschiedene Arten von Bindemitteln wie Leime, Kleister und Mörtel verwendet. Heute wird er häufig als Kompositum mit den zu verbindenden Materialien benutzt, z. B. Glaserkitt oder Fensterkitt. Herkömmlicher Kitt ist eine seit etwa 1700 bekannte Dichtungsmasse, die zu rund 85 Prozent aus Schlämmkreide (Calciumcarbonat) und 15 Prozent aus Leinölfirnis besteht – weswegen er auch als Leinölkitt bezeichnet wird. Er ist als geschmeidige knetbare Paste im Handel erhältlich…

Cerberus

11:04 PM

@RegDwigнt You don't dichtkit your windows and bathroom floors and such?

RegDwigнt

@Cerberus I dunno. I would rather abdichten those. With Silikon.

Cerberus

@tchrist Does it still mean kietelen?

@RegDwigнt Silikonenkit.

> Ontleend aan Duits Kitt ‘kit, mastiek’, Middelhoogduits küt(e) < kuti [12e eeuw; Pfeifer].
Oe. cwidu, cweodu, cwudu, cudu ‘hars, kleefstof’ (ne. cud ‘herkauwsel’); on. kváđa ‘hars’ (nzw. kåda ‘hars’); < pgm. *kwedu-, *kwēdō-. Hierbij ook Noord-Fries kwet(j)kaue ‘herkauwen’.
Verwant met: Sanskrit jatu- ‘gom’; Oudiers beithe ‘berk’, Cornish bedewen ‘populier’; en wrsch. met Latijn bitūmen ‘asfalt’ (zie bitumen); < pie. *gwetu- (IEW 480).

Turns out Dutch kit is from German Kitt, related to English cud and probably Latin (<English/Dutch/etc) bitumen.

RegDwigнt

6

A: A soft substance that can be used to seal a seam between a bathtub and a wall

The substance is silicone, or silicone caulk, and what you do is silicone or caulk your bath (or kitchen) with a caulking gun or tube.

tchrist

@Cerberus No, it’s more about tickling or puzzling.

Cerberus

@tchrist Kietelen is tickling.

tchrist

11:06 PM

Well then.

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt To be honest, I don't know the exactly difference between stopverf (caulk) and kit.

RegDwigнt

> KITT, m. , früher kütt u. a. (s. 2), ein künstliches bindemittel für harte, besonders steinartige gegenstände, was beim holze der leim.
1) kitt m., die jetzt geltende form.
a) eigentlich: der kitt zum porcellain bestehet aus geronnener milch und gelöschtem kalke ... leimen (sie) damit was sie leimen wollen. wenn es so lange hält als unsre freundschaft halten soll, so ist es ein kitt den wir loben wollen. Lessing 12, 297

tchrist

> 1. trans. To tickle (in physical sense).
b. transf. Used of actions humorously or ironically likened to tickling, as the friction of the strings of a fiddle with a bow, a stab with a weapon, etc.
2. fig. To stir with feeling or emotion, usually pleasurable: to excite, rouse; to ‘tickle’.
3. To puzzle with a question, a riddle, etc.

I doubt a non-Scot would understand it any longer.

RegDwigнt

@Cerberus well as I said, nobody really kitts anything here except when building an aircraft.

@tchrist yeah no so that's clearly not the same kit.

Cerberus

@tchrist This is kittle? The senses are mostly the same as in Dutch.

@RegDwigнt I think people here also use kitten for applying caulk.

tchrist

11:09 PM

@Cerberus Yes, but note that it is now only dial. and Sc.

RegDwigнt

@Cerberus here, people can kitten their relationships.

But not their baths.

Go figure.

Cerberus

Haha.

tchrist

@RegDwigнt The normal kit verb comes from the noun we stole from the Dutch, kitte.

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt That is funny, we wouldn't say that.

tchrist

Meaning to equip.

Now.

Cerberus

11:09 PM

@tchrist Too bad.

RegDwigнt

@tchrist I am a bit perplexed the German dictionary sez it used to be kütt.

tchrist

It used to mean to put in a barrel.

Cerberus

I have seen kittle used in English, but seldom.

@RegDwigнt Kut.

Anddd there we are back to pussy!

RegDwigнt

De bus kütt.

tchrist

> kit /kɪt/, sb.1

Forms: 4–5 kyt, 4–7 kitt, 5–6 kytt(e, 6– kit.

Etymology: app. a. MDutch kitte a wooden vessel made of hooped staves (Dutch kit tankard): ulterior etymology uncertain.

Cerberus

11:10 PM

@RegDwigнt Haha what?

RegDwigнt

@Cerberus Kölsch for the bus is driving off.

tchrist

That’s the one that turned into to kit for to equip, which originally had a barrelly sense.

Cerberus

@tchrist I found kit for jar in the dictionary, but had never heard of it.

Anonymous

@barlop Look up attributive and predicative adjectives. (And postpositive, for that matter.)

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt Dutchmen would love that.

RegDwigнt

11:11 PM

Hey, there's Schnecke. Which is German for Pussy and we're back to square one.

Anonymous

Een slak.

Cerberus

We just say kutbus, meaning "fucking bus".

tchrist

You forgot an n.

Cerberus

Die kutbus is altijd te laat!

@snailboat Dag, slak!

@RegDwigнt Schnecke?

RegDwigнt

Snail.

Cerberus

11:12 PM

Ahh.

Anonymous

@Cerberus Dag, hond!

Cerberus

Makes sense.

Could there be a connection between snake and snail?

RegDwigнt

@Cerberus reminds me of those Dutch girls in Salou who taught us to say "Kim heisht dicke belem". Or something.

Basically Kim had a fat derriere.

Or so they were convinced.

Cerberus

They're both oblong, cold-blooded animals (present company excepted).

tchrist

@snailboat Did you know they used to use good store postpositively to mean "a good bit"?

Cerberus

11:13 PM

@RegDwigнt Haha, Kim heeft dikke billen.

Anonymous

PIE *sneg-

Anonymous

@tchrist I did not

Cerberus

@snailboat Woef!

tchrist

Or even without the good part. The citations are bizarre to me.

Anonymous

I'll have to look it up!

RegDwigнt

11:14 PM

@Cerberus good edit.

tchrist

> d. Used advb. or as postpositive or predicative adj. = ‘in store’, in plenty, abundant(ly). Also good, great store. Now arch. and dial.

1569 Preston Cambises 858 (Manly) ― The poets wel, in places store, of my might doo expresse.
1577 Hanmer Anc. Eccl. Hist., Evagr. v. xix. 500 ― Then there were captiues great store, and cheape inough.
1578 T. N. In Commend. Lyte’s Dodoens, ― Till Rembert he, did sende additions store.
A. 1586 Sidney Ps. xxv. xi, ― Behold my foes, what stoare they be.
1604 E. G[rimstone] tr. Acosta’s Hist. Indies iii. xxii. 187 ― Peru doth surpasse it in one thing, which…

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt Freud?

Anonymous

Oh, I was too slow :-)

RegDwigнt

Schnaken

Die Schnaken (Tipulidae) stellen eine Familie der Zweiflügler (Diptera) dar. Innerhalb dieser werden sie normalerweise den Mücken (Nematocera) zugeordnet, obwohl ihre exakte Position im System bislang nicht geklärt ist. Eindeutig erscheint aber eine Zusammengehörigkeit der Überfamilie Tipuloidea. Die übrigen dorthin gehörigen Familien wurden traditionell als Unterfamilien der Schnaken betrachtet und erst spät abgetrennt. == Weitere Trivialnamen == Regional werden Schnaken auch als Bachmücken, Pferdemücken, Langbeinmücken, Schneider, Keilhacken, Mückenhengste, Hexen, Schuster, Schnegger, Slak, Schnok…

Cerberus

It's odd how we have been talking about kit the whole time in her absence.

Anonymous

11:14 PM

That's pretty neat.

tchrist

Wah.

RegDwigнt

So at least in German a schnake is not quite a schneck.

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt Huh...

tchrist

It oneboxes but doesn’t linken.

RegDwigнt

Besides the schnake would be a schlong anyway.

Which is Russian for garden hose, BTW.

tchrist

11:15 PM

Engrish.

Cerberus

Slak, and Schnaken?

RegDwigнt

Aug 19 at 14:05, by RegDwigнt

Of course Schlong is Yiddish for Schlange, which is German for snake or Russian for garden hose.

Cerberus

We use slang for snake and garden hose!

RegDwigнt

It is also German for queue, btw.

Cerberus

Ah, I remember.

RegDwigнt

11:16 PM

Die Schlange beim Walmart war endlos.

Anonymous

My slakken are inactive lately. They're sleeping right now.

RegDwigнt

Such slakkers.

Cerberus

People can form a slang in Dutch, but that means a meandering queue—it's not the normal word.

Anonymous

Hey, cut them some slak!

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt And Reihe?

Haha.

Y'all are so punnishingly witty, it's hard to keep up.

tchrist

11:17 PM

You too fast.

Cerberus

Tom goes with a slakkengangetje.

RegDwigнt

Cerberus

A "little snails'-pace", i.e. very slowly.

tchrist

macbook# oedgrep --tag DEF:postpositive
agonistes
boeuf
bonne
chasseur
extraordinaire
postpositive
preposition
regardless
store

RegDwigнt

BTW, am I the only person on this planet to realize that Kurt Russell and Patrick Swayze are the same guy?

tchrist

11:19 PM

Snails pace?

I thought they slimed.

Cerberus

They pace, except very slowly.

RegDwigнt

Cerberus

Who is your little friend?

RegDwigнt

One of them is a dirty dancer. The other, a snake.

You tell me which is which.

tchrist

Also, dead.

RegDwigнt

11:22 PM

That too.

@Cerberus nobody says Reihe for Schlange. You only say "an der Reihe" for "one's turn".

Which doesn't have to be a queue. Could be a boardgame.

tchrist

Te toca a ti.

= It’s your turn.

Amongst other things. :)

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt That's really funny. You cannot say that in Dutch. Your turn is your beurt. A rij is a queue only.

@tchrist What's toca?

tchrist

@Cerberus To touch, to play.

But play only in the piano sense, not the game sense.

RegDwigнt

@Cerberus well don't get me started on Ukrainian. Who on Earth says "persha cherga" for "pervaya ochered"?

tchrist

@RegDwigнt A poet?

RegDwigнt

11:26 PM

@Cerberus here's one guy who tocas a tico. Hope that helps.

►

Cerberus

@tchrist So basically "touch yourself"?

RegDwigнt

That video is actually quite fascinating. Do watch. Especially from a musician's standpoint.

tchrist

@Cerberus No, imperative would be tócate. There’s a dropped "it" subject.

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt Yes, quite incredible. How dare they!

tchrist

It touches (to) you.

Cerberus

11:27 PM

@tchrist Ahh OK.

So there is the duplicate argument of Spanish again?

RegDwigнt

El argumento es um argento.

tchrist

Yes.

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt Pas mal.

tchrist

¿A quién le toca?

Is "Whose turn is it?"

That’s a dative.

Cerberus

Right.

"To whom does it touch?"

RegDwigнt

11:29 PM

@Cerberus that's only half of the story. I'm saying "from the musician's standpoint", because from the standpoint of a musician, once you go fast you can never go back to slow. So the really fascinating thing about that video is not how fast he is at the end, but how slow he is at the beginning.

That is the actual skill.

Cerberus

Oh...

RegDwigнt

Yeah.

Cerberus

Well, it's nice.

Hey, what do you know, I have a question about English!

RegDwigнt

Off-topic. Gen-ref. ELL.

Cerberus

Does one ever spell ?Matty?

RegDwigнt

11:30 PM

You just did!

Cerberus

And is Mattie ever used for a man?

Oops!

tchrist

►

RegDwigнt

I do not know who Matt(erazz)i is, so I'll drop out for another drink.

Cerberus

What are you drinking?

RegDwigнt

Vodka. And ice tea.

tchrist

11:32 PM

@Cerberus Straight?

No.

RegDwigнt

Short continent ice tea.

tchrist

Matty is normal.

Mattie would be a girl.

I like the Grieg.

Try it.

Anonymous

Tea sounds good. I'm going to go make one of the non-alcoholic sorts.

RegDwigнt

@tchrist obligatory retort:

►

tchrist

Maybe Wodehouse had Matties as men.

RegDwigнt

11:35 PM

Until now, I was only aware of Purdue because of Purdue Pete, the only user-submitted LEGO idea that reached 10000 supporters in a single day. (Because they placed people with laptops all across the campus pestering everyone into supporting.)

tchrist

@RegDwigнt It’s hard to find on a map.

Cerberus

@tchrist OK, I didn't think so.

@tchrist Normal? But not very frequent?

Anonymous

I grew up in Illinois, and Purdue wasn't all that far away. Friends of mine went there

Anonymous

Illinois has a town called Normal.

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt How very Russian of you.

I like it.

RegDwigнt

11:37 PM

Needless to say, got rejected.

Just like the LEGO Android droid.

Anonymous

@RegDwigнt Um. :-)

Cerberus

@snailboat Which is anything but?

RegDwigнt

@tchrist hard to find anywhere ever. Also, what a dumb name, if I may.

Anonymous

@Cerberus Well, you can basically make up any Normal-related joke and assume the residents have heard it.

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt Ugh.

RegDwigнt

11:38 PM

Also, "purdue" is Russian for "I'm farting".

Cerberus

@snailboat I'm sure!

RegDwigнt

@Cerberus yeah no it's not the worst actually. You should see some of the Minecraft sets they officially do produce.

tchrist

Drat. Arnold Zwicky was at Ohio State (and later Stanford), not Purdue.

RegDwigнt

But hey what do you know, I am not drinking again? You people are cruel.

AFK

tchrist

Even Google has gotten into the damned Black Friday thing.

About a scholar.

Cerberus

11:41 PM

@RegDwigнt A Lego Minecraft set? That has got to be a pleonasm.

tchrist

The proffered Free Shipping image (#5) when googling up Arnold Zwicky is really funny to show up.

Cerberus

@tchrist What is it doing?

Oh, the image.

tchrist

arnoldzwicky.org

> Gruß vom Krampus

Boulder is having a Santa Claus convention right now.

Zillions of jolly men dressed up like Santa pub-crawling.

Cerberus

That's early!

Johan Larsson

00:55 and feature complete, relax or next?

Cerberus

11:55 PM

Congrats!

Anonymous

Does the down arrow in the middle of [çi̥to↓bito] render correctly for everyone here?

Cerberus

I say, relax.

Anonymous

Yay, the devoicing diacritic is in something vaguely like the right spot!

Johan Larsson

@Cerberus ok, next is a painful one.

Cerberus

Then relax.

Or you will not sleep all night.

@snailboat What is it?

The circle under the i?

Anonymous

11:58 PM

It represents a voiceless sound.

Cerberus

I thought that was a semicircle.

Anonymous

It is. I assumed your screen shot cut off the bottom

Anonymous

Er.

Anonymous

Wait, I read what you just said backwards.

Anonymous

It should be a circle.

Anonymous

11:59 PM

westonruter.github.io/ipa-chart/keyboard

Cerberus

When I zoom in more, it is a circle.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…