English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

7:00 PM

A roek is smaller than a kraai.

Gigili

@JasperLoy When is your birthday?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@Cerberus exactly my point.

Gigili

Or no birthday in this chat?

KitFox

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 grackle?

user19161

@Gigili Is that related to the bird comment by the way? August.

Cerberus

7:01 PM

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Hmm it turns out that kraai is a higher-level name including both roeken and raven.

rumtscho

When it comes to onomatopoeic words for Corvidae, we should probably prefer the Dutch variants. Just saying.

KitFox

The last picture looks like a grackle to me.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

This is a грач, too.

Cerberus

@rumtscho Thanks.

aedia λ

So which one is which in English? Because apparently I was out with chicken pox or something when I was supposed to be learning my bird words...

user19161

7:02 PM

I only see mynahs here everyday, quite a small bird.

Cerberus

According to Wiki, kraai = corvida.

aedia λ

@JasperLoy Waah I don't know what those are either really.

user19161

Sometimes there are pigeons too. They usually stay if there are people who feed them.

Cerberus

Raaf (pl. raven) = raven.

Roek = rook.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@KitFox Wikipedia universally translates it as rook. For the bird, the painting, and the plane alike.

Gigili

7:03 PM

@JasperLoy Why else would I ask?

Cerberus

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Not from Dutch to English!

KitFox

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Huh. OK.

aedia λ

I know my finches and pigeons and uh, robins and like... what else is there around here. Peregrine falcon if you're lucky.

Cerberus

@Reg, Rum: What is kraai/грач in German?

KitFox

@aediaλ tch

shakes head and looks all judgy

aedia λ

7:04 PM

@KitFox I know I know. sad face

user19161

Myna

:Distinguish from genus Manorina (Australian Miners), genus Geositta (South American Miners), miner and minor. The mynah or myna is a bird of the starling family (Sturnidae). This is a group of passerine birds which occur naturally only in southern and eastern Asia. Especially North India. Several species have been introduced to areas like North America, Australia, South Africa and New Zealand, especially the Common Myna which is often regarded as an invasive species. Mynas are not a natural group (Zuccon et al. 2006); instead, the term myna is used for any starling in India and surr...

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@Cerberus how could I know if even you are unsure what it is in Dutch?

KitFox

@aediaλ You should at least know your corvids!

aedia λ

@JasperLoy Ooh wow that's pretty!

rumtscho

@Cerberus грач is Saatkrähe

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

7:05 PM

Saatkrähe

Die Saatkrähe (Corvus frugilegus) ist eine der vier europäischen Arten der Gattung Corvus aus der Familie der Rabenvögel (Corvidae). Die große Krähe mit markantem Schnabel und metallisch glänzendem schwarzem Gefieder ist mit der Nominatform C. frugilegus frugilegus in einem breiten Gürtel von Westeuropa bis in die Steppen des Altaigebietes verbreitet. Das Vorkommen der zweiten Unterart, C. frugilegus pastinator, schließt ostwärts an das der Nominatform an und reicht bis zur Pazifikküste. Sie ist geringfügig kleiner als die Nominatform und ihr Gefieder schimmert eher rötlich-purpurn. A...

KitFox

I had a weird thing happen with a grackle when I was in high school.

Gigili

I intend to repay you the gift that you sent me @JasperLoy. You and Mahnax, I must say.

rumtscho

> Grackle is the common name of any of eleven passerine birds native to North and South America

Cerberus

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 How about crow?

Gigili

I haven't used that digital camera yet, by the way.

Cerberus

7:06 PM

Ohh yes, of course, Krähe.

rumtscho

And rooks seem to only live in Europe and Asia.

user19161

@Gigili The magic camera? Hmm I see.

rumtscho

So they probably aren't closely related.

Cerberus

There's also the Western Jackdaw...

Gigili

@JasperLoy The whatever camera, yes.

KitFox

7:07 PM

One of my nicknames was "Magpie."

user19161

@KitFox Any reason?

KitFox

I have a tendency to steal bright shiny things.

Also, a pretty singing voice.

rumtscho

@RegDwightB8 now I know why I mistook the grach word

Cerberus

chuckles

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Magpie would be сорока. Which is probably onomatopoeic as well.

user19161

7:08 PM

Magpie

Magpies are passerine birds of the crow family, Corvidae. In Europe, "magpie" is often used by English speakers as a synonym for the European Magpie, as there are no other magpies in Europe outside Iberia. That bird was referred to as a "pie" until the late 16th century when the feminine name "mag" was added to the beginning. Magpies are believed to be one of the most intelligent of all animals: the European Magpie is one of the few animal species known to be able to recognize itself in a mirror test. Systematics and species According to analysis, magpies do not form the monophyl...

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

In German it's Elster.

rumtscho

As a child, I read a book which mentioned Грачи прилетели

Cerberus

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@rumtscho that's the painting I was referring to earlier.

user19161

Magpies like to read magazines and eat pies.

Cerberus

7:08 PM

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 *ekster

rumtscho

I think that some of the figures were admiring the painting or similar.

KitFox

Magpies are also very smart and like to play tricks.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

rumtscho

But it was translated as "the ravens came"

user19161

@KitFox They also have big boobs!

rumtscho

7:09 PM

Must have been a mistake by the translator.

Gigili

Is that the reason they're called "Magpie"?

They like pie?

rumtscho

Funny how I can't even remember which book it was

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@rumtscho the only thing that proves is that rubbish translations predate the Internet.

rumtscho

But I remember the mentioning of the painting.

Maybe something my Uspenski.

user19161

@Gigili I like the American Pie movies.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

7:10 PM

The door is over there.

Robusto

Albethere.

user19161

Of course the king of birds is the owl.

KitFox

I wish I could find the clip. There is a funny video of a magpie imitating duck calls so that the dog would run, barking, down to the duck pond.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

The it may be a dummy, but is albe for real? Is "albe" a prefix? Only because it joins with it? I'm unaware of it. — Kris 21 mins ago

Gigili

> [...] and slang English for qualities associated generally with women, especially in this case "idle chattering" [...]

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

7:14 PM

Sometimes I think Kris is trolling me.

user19161

Wow a magpie can imitate a duck and a dog can recognize a duck sound. Animals are smarter than humans.

Robusto

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Albewhat?

@JasperLoy This is the problem with inductive reasoning.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@Robusto that's the question. And I think the OP doesn't get it after getting beaten with it over and over again.

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 He just said he posted "editing some more in" because his browser only allows him to post a few lines at a time.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Right, albethat not exactly what I asked. lol. — alex gray 6 mins ago

user19161

7:16 PM

I am curious how his browser works.

rumtscho

OK, I remembered the book. "The clown school" by Uspenskiy.

Now I feel like re-reading it.

aedia λ

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

How can one post that comment after reading two answers and a comment that that's so not how it works?

Robusto

@aediaλ No picture of cute birds mating in chat.

rumtscho

@aediaλ These look too exotic to be Corvidae.

Gigili

7:17 PM

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 He's hired by a rich elderly woman to solve a mystery.

aedia λ

@Robusto They're just little ones!

@rumtscho They're the myna instead.

user19161

@Gigili This sentence itself is too mysterious for me.

aedia λ

I was captivated by the soft fluffy white ones.

user19161

@Robusto They don't look like they are doing it.

aedia λ

Also, it turns out I really don't know any Corvidae except the jays.

rumtscho

7:18 PM

@aediaλ Strange, I always imagined that mynas are dark.

aedia λ

A lot of them are except this kind, it seems.

KitFox

@aediaλ Heaven forfend!

aedia λ

The dark ones are pretty too.

user19161

@rumtscho Actually they are. There are many different kinds of mynas as you can read.

Robusto

How does Shoe's answer add anything to the discussion? Plus his examples are stylistically crappy.

user19161

7:19 PM

The mynas I see everyday are black by the way.

aedia λ

Do you have this guy?

Cerberus

Cute!

aedia λ

He's so adorable.

Cerberus

Never seen him before.

Robusto

"That's a cool handbag, albeit expensive" [bad]
"That handbag is cool, albeit expensive" [better]

user19161

7:20 PM

@aediaλ Never seen this kind.

Cerberus

@Robusto Agreed. Though it is still a bit archaic...

user19161

Today is bird day in this chat.

aedia λ

@JasperLoy Aw, sad. Keep an eye out for 'em! It says they're native to Indonesia so maybe they'll fly over sometime.

user19161

@aediaλ Unicorns are prettier, hehe.

Robusto

@Cerberus Yes, but if he's going to use it, he should use it well. Users of albeit are already going out on a limb, exposing themselves to ridicule and dislike. Best to remove the "stylistically awful" arrow from the quiver.

aedia λ

7:22 PM

@JasperLoy grins

Cerberus

@Robusto Couldn't agree more.

rumtscho

@Robusto Your advice is sound, albeit not always practical.

user19161

@Cerberus Is albeit outdated or something?

Cerberus

Yes.

user19161

Albeit happens to be one of those pretentious words I like to use.

Robusto

7:24 PM

@JasperLoy It sounds pretentious in most informal contexts.

Cerberus

And it should normally only be used to closely link two adjectives, I think.

@Robusto Most formal contexts too.

aedia λ

I always try to use it and then feel halfway through as if I've screwed up which thing is al-being, so I stop myself.

Robusto

@Cerberus Apposition is important.

Cerberus

Only where though is really too informal would albeit fit well, I'd say.

aedia λ

You have those places?

Robusto

7:25 PM

It's hard for me to say albeit unironically.

user19161

@Robusto I didn't know thrice sounds pretentious too.

Cerberus

@Robusto If you call it that.

Robusto

@JasperLoy Your point being?

Cerberus

@aediaλ I don't think I do...

Thrice is nice.

user19161

@Robusto Nothing. I just mean that although I use thrice and albeit, I was not aware that they are not very common.

Cerberus

7:26 PM

I use it. It is always slightly ironic perhaps.

user19161

It's just that thrice and albeit feel very natural to me.

Robusto

Depends on the situation. At the very least it would be a kind of emphasis. "The handbag was nice, albeit expensive" is necessarily more emphatic than "The handbag was nice, but expensive."

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

German has an Imperial ton of those albeits. Obgleich, obschon, wenngleich, obzwar, wiewohl... One more pretentious than the next.

user19161

Perhaps the word pretentious is itself pretentious.

Robusto

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Obwohl oft gesagt?

Cerberus

7:28 PM

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Funny...we only have ofschoon, hoewel, al, alhoewel, ook al, hoe...ook.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@Robusto "Obwohl" and "wenn auch" are what people say.

user19161

In the same way, trying overly hard to not appear pretentious is in a way pretentious too.

Robusto

@JasperLoy That's just not true. Leave the epigrams to Oscar Wilde, tyvm.

Mitch

if you're not successful, it's pretentious

rumtscho

Obzwar? I'm not even sure I have heard that one before

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

7:30 PM

@rumtscho it's fairly common for a word that's not common at all.

Cerberus

Makes sense.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

124k hits in Google.

user19161

@Mitch Tautology!

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Compare that to "rumtscho", which only returns 21k hits.

2

user19161

Wow without using arrows this room is getting incomprehensible today!

rumtscho

7:31 PM

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Your Google is bigger than mine.

user19161

Maybe only incomprehensible to me, as usual...

rumtscho

I only got 16.9 K for rumtscho

Gigili

15k here.

rumtscho

And 121K hits for obzwar.

KitFox

"About 17,000 results" for rumtscho.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

7:34 PM

rumtscho

Who censored my Google by 3-4 K hits per search term?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@KitFox I have the "I'm at work and my boss is prude" filter turned off.

KitFox

Oh, of course.

rumtscho

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 I never had such a filter. Or a prude boss.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

First they censored your google, and you said nothing because you were no google.

user19161

7:36 PM

Bosses should be prudent but not prude.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Yo people, you only have 30 stars a day. I can post way more shit than that.

5

rumtscho

There is a limit to stars?

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Perhaps one is not google but googol.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@rumtscho well how many do you know? Ben Affleck, Chris Tucker, and that would be it.

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Even the stars in the sky are limited, most probably.

user19161

7:38 PM

Wow Reg gets so many stars for saying shit.

rumtscho

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 I haven't heard of Chris Tucker, so he is not a star. At least not in my universe.

user19161

@rumtscho I believe my universe and your universe are the same universe.

rumtscho

@JasperLoy I don't know, does your universe contain a star called Chris Tucker?

user19161

@rumtscho Chris Tucker lives on planet Earth and Earth is in my universe, so my universe contains Chris Tucker. QED.

Robusto

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Yes, we know, Bubba. The world is your sock puppet.

rumtscho

7:41 PM

Your proof contains the hidden assumption that Earth is in only one universe.

user19161

@rumtscho Yes, have a cookie.

Cameron

oh snap, now it's on in the multiverse

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@Robusto no, my sock puppet is Matt. And Matt doesn't mean the world to me. (Sorry, Matt.)

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Matt is obviously a proper subset of the world.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Not on his bad hair day. He's all filthy then.

user19161

7:42 PM

@Cameron I only know about multivitamins.

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Still, on those days, he is physically on the planet and so is in the world.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

And thus another chat was successfully killed.

Cameron

Huzzah!

user19161

I wonder who is starring Reg's messages.

Eugene Seidel

You're a c(h)atty bunch aren't you?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

7:45 PM

@JasperLoy Matt, of course.

user19161

@EugeneSeidel There aren't many cats here. We have an owl, a unicorn, three dogs and a fox.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@EugeneSeidel well this is one of the most active rooms on the network.

aedia λ

In unrelated news, I'm highly amused by how delighted my mom is at watching Roomba clean the living room. She regularly reports to me on its behavior since we brought it here. "It got stuck under the couch, and then it got itself unstuck!"

Cameron

@JasperLoy oh sure, leave out the fractals

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Actually the most active room right now.

user19161

7:46 PM

@aediaλ At first I thought Roomba was your pet!

aedia λ

@JasperLoy She's the closest thing we've got.

rumtscho

@JasperLoy No, I'm not! looks around, startled

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

The second-most active room is

> Picture this: You're at the dentist's office and a technician squirts a mouthwash containing genetically modified bacteria onto your teeth. You wait a few minutes, eat some sugar to help colonize the new bacteria and from this day on, no
more cavities. This is the scenario that researchers at the University of Florida are hoping to fulfill one day soon.

aedia λ

@JasperLoy I recommend continuing your happy existence devoid of that song, then.

user19161

@aediaλ I heard Flying Without Wings about 1000 times already I think!

user19161

@Gigili Fascinating!

user19161

8:10 PM

@Gigili Vacuously true because no teeth left implies no cavities. QED.

aedia λ

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 song stuck in head worse now, but also laughing uncontrollably

user19161

@aediaλ Maybe you just inhaled some laughing gas.

Eugene Seidel

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Why the white background?

user19161

@EugeneSeidel He is copying and pasting an old message.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

It's a quote.

Eugene Seidel

8:12 PM

From May 2011!

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

There.

user19161

@reg I was about to copy and paste that!

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Tja.

user19161

But I thought that might incur the wrath of TPTB.

Eugene Seidel

What the heck was that? A giant white box with single letters running down it vertically?

user19161

8:14 PM

It's huge, like your cookie.

user19161

@EugeneSeidel It's a quote of a quote of a quote ...

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

33 secs ago, by RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

27 secs ago, by RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

19 secs ago, by RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@EugeneSeidel It was a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote...

Jinx!

Eugene Seidel

OK!

This is worse than the rabbit hole...

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

You've been to a rabbit hole?

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Great minds think alike!

Eugene Seidel

8:17 PM

I read about it in a book

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@JasperLoy Zwei Idioten, ein Gedanke.

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 whoosh

Gigili

Isn't it "Zwei Dumme"?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

That whoosh, Jasper... you keep using it... I don't think it means what you think it means.

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 For me in this chat, whoosh=thwack.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

8:19 PM

QED.

user19161

lol

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

You really don't know what whoosh is...

It's a sad state of affairs.

user19161

I really don't know, I admit.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

The whoosh would really like to get to know you...

2

@JasperLoy it's onomatopoeic of a joke flying over someone's head.

So you say "whoosh" after you make a joke and someone obviously doesn't get it.

But you don't say whoosh just because it's Thursday,

Gigili

"let's get to know each other better", Woosh said disappointingly.

user19161

8:22 PM

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Well, I took them to be sounds. Thwack is the sound when you are hit by something, and whoosh is the sound when something moves through air (in this case the ruler hitting for example) so they are approximately equal. QED.

Gigili

"Buit" is an angry version of "but"?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@JasperLoy that's like saying that a car is approximately equal to a woman because both make sounds.

user19161

oald8.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/dictionary/whoosh_1

user19161

oald8.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/dictionary/thwack

user19161

There, there.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

8:24 PM

BBL

Gigili

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Why a woman? Why not a man or a cockatoo, for example?

This situation will not stand.

user19161

@Gigili I like the German movie Der Rote Cuckadoo.

Gigili

Nice, but I don't see how this is relevant to what I said.

user19161

@Gigili Simply because you mentioned cockatoo.

Gigili

@JasperLoy I also mentioned "man", it'd be relevant if you said the German movie "Der Man mit seiner Frau"? No. QED.

I seem to have misplaced my confidence.

F'x

8:53 PM

okay everybody, attention please: I have an urgent matter to resolve

a colleague of mine has a wife named "Phyllis"… I only saw it in writing, so I can pronounce it

question is: how do you pronounce it?

because if it's pronounced as I suppose, then I'd love to try and say things like "did you see Phyllis today?"

Gigili

@Fx forvo.com/search/Phyllis

Cameron

rhymes with Willis, if that helps

(I'm American, for reference)

F'x

@Cameron can't really blame you

@Cameron also, they're American

so phy like in fist, not like in fire, right?

Cameron

that's how I would say it, yes

F'x

@Cameron good, the "syphilis" puns work then

Jez

8:58 PM

Well, hi guys

Cameron

Yes, you're golden to use that one, for sure

Jez

I was fired today. what fun.

Cameron

@Jez sorry to hear that

F'x

@Jez hurray :(

Gigili

Isn't the first pronunciation correct @Cameron?

Cameron

8:59 PM

@Gigili from forvo?

Gigili

Yes

Cameron

yes, the second sounds odd to me

Gigili

Right, thanks.

F'x

@Cameron the second one sounds like someone saying "Felippe" to me :)

Matt Эллен

Gigili

9:09 PM

Wow, I've got a very nice email from the SE team.

Matt Эллен

Are they praising your abilities?

user19161

Oh dear, I cannot stand Anglo Saxon's answers anymore...

Matt Эллен

has he said something else, @Jasper?

user19161

2

Q: Is "do something by date X" inclusive?

For example, if John says: Return it to me by March 24th. Does it mean that I need to return it to him before 23:59 p.m. March 24th, or before 23:59 p.m. March 23rd?

Matt Эллен

it seems Reg has become even more popular in my short absence

user19161

9:12 PM

@MattЭллен He said you were the one starring his messages!

Gigili

@MattЭллен Even better than that.

Matt Эллен

@Gigili they're giving you a cash prize?

Gigili

@MattЭллен Better better.

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy but such obvious sock puppetry is so gauche

user19161

I think Kris and Anglo Saxon should be merged into Thursagen.

Matt Эллен

9:14 PM

Yeah, Kris is becoming less logical with each comment

maybe he's having an off week

user19161

@MattЭллен Comments are fine, but the answers suck too.

Matt Эллен

@Gigili a tour of the 7 wonders of the world?

user19161

1

Q: Difference between "isolated" and "insulated"

What is the difference in meaning between isolated and insulated?

word-choice

user19161

Kris's answer there looks like things randomly copied from elsewhere. Some are only tangentially related to the question and others are not right.

Matt Эллен

as I say to such questions: they are spelt and pronounced quite differnetly

Gigili

9:18 PM

@MattЭллен It's an email about two pages including sentences like "I understand", "you have my sympathy", "blahblah" which really made me feel better.

Matt Эллен

@Gigili that's very sweet of them :)

user19161

@Gigili Two pages? Are you kidding me?

user19161

Your page must be very small then. :-)

Gigili

@JasperLoy Why would I?

@MattЭллен Indeed.

user19161

@Gigili Well, I think if it is two pages then something is terribly wrong with their writing skills.

Gigili

9:21 PM

@JasperLoy What? I don't get it. Why do you think so?

user19161

@Gigili Well, of course I don't know what they wrote there. But if it is two pages telling a user not to delete their account it just feels weird.

Gigili

They are simply explaining events to me.

user19161

Perhaps they belong to the longer equals better camp.

Gigili

@JasperLoy Did I say they told me not to delete my account?

user19161

@Gigili Sorry, that's what I assumed since I thought you were going to delete your account.

Matt Эллен

9:24 PM

time to head to the land of nod. toodles!

Gigili

Good night.

user19161

9:43 PM

0

Q: Is "I run in the subway?" grammatical?

and do you perceive it as "the action of running, done inside of a subway"? Thanks a lot

grammar prepositions

user19161

Look at Anglo's answer there. facepalmragequit

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

I read through the answer a few times and now I feel like I don't understand English anymore.

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 I am sorry I have to confess that I laughed for 10 seconds.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Better sorry than safe.

Anyways, I'm out for today. Take care.

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Good night!

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

9:47 PM

Night all.

Mahnax

10:12 PM

Hi.

user19161

@Mahnax Boo! I downvoted 8 answers today. It cost me my precious reps.

Mahnax

@JasperLoy Jasper, you mustn't be so hateful.

user19161

@Mahnax Yes Yoda.

Mahnax

@JasperLoy Coming along nicely, your training is.

JSBᾶngs

10:55 PM

4

Q: Why are my cheese curds not well-knitted after pressing?

I've made several cheeses at home following a cheddar recipe. After I've aged the cheeses and cut them open, I'm usually finding that the cheese is has a somewhat spongy, open texture with small visible holes in it, similar to provolone: This is in place of the denser, solid texture that I exp...

cheese cheese-making

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