English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

12:00 PM

@SpareOom Haha what an excellent article title. "Phrases from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy." That allows you to republish the entire book. Brilliant, Wikipedia. Bravo.

David Wallace

Aren't they bound by the Berne Convention or something?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

No, only by the Berne Identity.

Spare Oom

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Can they really do that?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@SpareOom they? Who is they? Wikipedia is you!

Spare Oom

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Maybe everyone except me.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

12:03 PM

Then their definition of Wikipedia needs fixed.

Wikipedia

Wikipedia ( or ) is a free, collaborative, multilingual Internet encyclopedia supported by the non-profit Wikimedia Foundation. Its 21 million articles ( million}} in English alone) have been written collaboratively by volunteers around the world. Almost all of its articles can be edited by anyone with access to the site, As of , there are editions of Wikipedia in 285 languages. It has become the largest and most popular general reference work on the Internet, ranking sixth globally among all websites on Alexa and having an estimated 365 million readers worldwide. It is estimated that ...

So much vapid talk, when it can all be replaced with "Wikipedia is everyone except Spare Oom".

I think I will do just that.

David Wallace

They have moderators. Surely one job of the moderators is to prevent copyrighted material from appearing (or at least, from staying for too long).

And I actually meant the 15% exemption thingy.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

And I actually meant the Matt Damon movie.

KitFox

ice, ice baby

Great. Now I've got that in my head.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Also, I'm a Wiktionary bureaucrat. Admins are so below me.

MUWAHAHAHAHA

Matt Эллен

@KitFox you've only yourself to blame

KitFox

12:05 PM

Nuh-uh. It's David's fault.

David Wallace

@KitFox I've found that the best cure for an earworm is actually to listen to a recording of the offending music.

KitFox

NOU!

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@DavidWallace or Barbra Streisand.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox I didn't get the song in my head until I read what you wrote, so I blame you!

KitFox

brain twists in unnatural fashion

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

12:07 PM

►

Matt Эллен

@KitFox just listen to Chicken on a Raft until it's back in naturally twisted state

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Bah, they misspelled Cocktales.

David Wallace

Is that a snake in that photo?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Youtube are so stupid.

Matt Эллен

Metube?

KitFox

12:08 PM

What did I tell you about posting pictures of me here?

Also, it's not misspelt.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

No more than seven per minute.

Matt Эллен

That it's ok so long as we can't see your face

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@KitFox Also, it is.

David Wallace

I'm still looking at the snake.

KitFox

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Nuh-uh.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

12:09 PM

headdesk

KitFox

Yay!

claps hands

My work here is done.

That was quick today.

goes for coffee

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

For posterity: "Too Short" should be "Too $hort" and "Cocktails" should be "Cocktales". Because them is tales about cock, in point of fact.

Matt Эллен

metube.com is a depressingly predictable and uninventive faux search site

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Like Disney's Duck Tales!

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Great. Now I have that stuck in my head.

Утки! У-у-у!

Matt Эллен

ha, welcome to the club

ever since I read cocktales

KitFox

12:18 PM

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 But it's printed right there on the cover.

user19161

I still wonder why meysam can change his username before 30 days. I could not using his method.

user19161

Anyone thinks he has really solved the mystery please enlighten me.

KitFox

Change it on another account, then sync it with your SE account?

Then sync all your accounts with your SE account?

Does that work?

Spare Oom

@KitFox On the back cover, it shows the song title otherwise.

user19161

@KitFox Yeah. I tried to do the change on another account and then copy it but it did not work.

KitFox

12:20 PM

shrugs Dunno then.

user19161

@KitFox Oh I did not do the sync, but I don't think that matters.

KitFox

@JasperLoy Yes, it does.

David Wallace

Meysam said that you have to.

KitFox

How else will it know you want to use that username?

user19161

@KitFox But I can't do that if I cannot even change it one account.

David Wallace

12:21 PM

But you have to do it in a new account.

user19161

@DavidWallace So maybe "new" is the key. You have to create a new account and not use another, existing one.

David Wallace

Yes, that's the way I understood Meysam.

I did not try it myself, of course, because I like my name.

user19161

I always find it weird that the SE account profile has to be synced from your oldest account. They should let people change their profile on the SE account itself.

David Wallace

I suspect it's for historical reasons.

user19161

So one has to change on one account, copy to the other accounts, and then sync it at the SE account.

KitFox

12:22 PM

What? That can't be true.

I use EL&U and that's not my oldest account.

David Wallace

Like somebody put a "site" column into the "users" table, without doing appropriate data modelling; and it's now easier to keep it than to remove it.

user19161

It is true for me. When I log in to SE it says sync from TeX which is my oldest account.

user19161

@KitFox Hmm, maybe there is some algorithm for determining which is the account to be synced from.

user19161

It is also possible that meysam introduced or changed only non-Latin characters which does not disallow the change.

Matt Эллен

I wonder how my reps to answers ratio reflects the quality of the site

user19161

12:26 PM

Let my compute my rep:(answers+questions) ration on ELU...

David Wallace

@JasperLoy Yes, I think that's what he did.

Matt Эллен

I have 200 more answers on SO compared to P.SE, but only about 1500 more reps

David Wallace

@MattЭллен You think the quality of each site is determined by how many answers you provide?

user19161

57.8 is what I have. Of course I have no posts at 0 overall votes as I deleted those after a day.

Matt Эллен

@DavidWallace no. that's not what I said. I think that there is a correlation between the quality of a site and my reps to answers ratio

user19161

12:28 PM

I have thought of the next username I will use. It will not be Will Hunting. I leave you to guess...

user19161

I will change on May 7.

Matt Эллен

Hill Wunting?

Matt Damon?

user19161

Hint: It will be another Matt Damon character name.

Matt Эллен

Jason Bourne

user19161

@MattЭллен Ding!

Matt Эллен

12:30 PM

I'm a good guesser

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Haha wtf I have no questions answered on Programmers.

But still 500+ reps.

Spare Oom

@JasperLoy What's the point of changing your name?

David Wallace

@MattЭллен Just yours, or everyone's?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

They deleted all those bikeshedding rubbishes but let me keep my reps?

user19161

@SpareOom For fun.

Matt Эллен

12:30 PM

@DavidWallace well, everyone's I suppose. But I'm interested in mine

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

RegDwight, Europe, GMT+1

533 1 3 7

I don't understand this.

Spare Oom

@JasperLoy If Matt hadn't guessed, would you have identified yourself when you came with the new name?

Matt Эллен

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 the way I understanded it - after rep-ocalypse any rep you'd had for longer than 60 days was your forever regardless deletetion

user19161

It is very interesting that JB can stand for Justin Bieber, Jason Bourne and also Jacob Black.

user19161

@SpareOom Er, I would wait for the others to guess after the change...

Matt Эллен

12:32 PM

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 In the last podcast they explain it

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@MattЭллен Oh. Hm. Er. K, I guess. Thanx.

David Wallace

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 You've done loads of editing on that site though. Could it be as many as 266.5 questions?

Matt Эллен

:D

user19161

@SpareOom Oh I saw your KFC question in this room. I often use KFC myself to talk about the food itself.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@DavidWallace nah. I did answer a couple "what language sucks most"s, though.

David Wallace

12:33 PM

KFC WTF?

Matt Эллен

Kung Fu Chicken

user19161

And I noticed I used both myself and itself in the above sentence, fascinating.

user19161

@DavidWallace She was asking about the use of KFC to refer to the food instead of the food chain.

David Wallace

So there was a big deletion on P.SE recently though, right? I lost some rep.

Spare Oom

@JasperLoy With KFC, it bugs me less, because it's descriptive as well as the name of the store, but the use of McDonalds really annoys me. I guess I just have to adapt.

David Wallace

12:34 PM

@JasperLoy Yeah, that'd be normal. I could say "I had McDonalds for lunch".

Matt Эллен

@DavidWallace yeah, no doubt - I think there was an SE wide clean up

user19161

@MattЭллен There is no Kung Fu Chicken, only Kung Fu Panda and Little Chicken. Sometimes I am known by the latter.

David Wallace

Yay! I just got to 2000 on SO. Just this minute, in fact.

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy Killer Fat Chicken?

user19161

@SpareOom Oh I use McDonalds and Long John Silver's and what have you too.

Matt Эллен

12:36 PM

@DavidWallace congrats! now you can edit for free

user19161

@DavidWallace Very good. One downvote and it will be 1998 so don't be too happy till you get 2010.

David Wallace

Yes. I hope the power doesn't go to my head.

Spare Oom

@JasperLoy Are you American? I was also wondering if it was just an Americanism or if other countries use the same shortcut. And same question to @David

user19161

@SpareOom I am not American. I have a feeling the phenomenon is universal.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@MattЭллен data.stackexchange.com/english/query/62077/reputation-per-post

David Wallace

12:37 PM

KFC is the illegitimate offspring of Kung Fu Panda and Little Chicken.

@SpareOom I am not American.

user19161

I have been called Little Chicken and also Spongebob.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

So Matt is 24th.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 aye, but then there's the qualitative question of how that reflects on the quality of the site

Spare Oom

@DavidWallace and @JasperLoy The blight has spread, then. :(

JSBᾶngs

@JasperLoy i read this as meaning "the phenomenon of not being an american is universal"

Robusto

12:38 PM

Howdy.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@MattЭллен just click on the other site's icons, see how it compares.

Better than using a calculator.

user19161

@SpareOom Well, I think it is just a natural part of the language now.

Spare Oom

@JSBᾶngs haha

@Robusto 'lo @Robusto

KitFox

Is it a blight? We've done that sort of thing for centuries.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 but that tells me nothing of the quality!

user19161

12:39 PM

@JSBᾶngs Oh. Well, considering how most people are not Americans, that interpretation is approximately true as well.

Spare Oom

@KitFox Then I'm just noticing it.

David Wallace

@JasperLoy Your next username could be Jimmy Gopperth. He is often called Spongebob Squarepants. But probably only New Zealanders would get the joke.

KitFox

I mean, you probably call them band-aids and not adhesive bandages, right?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@MattЭллен well make something up, duh.

user19161

@DavidWallace I don't watch the cartoon myself, let alone know who JG is.

KitFox

12:40 PM

Or scotch tape instead of transparent adhesive tape?

Maybe I just don't get it, though.

David Wallace

@KitFox We say sellotape.

KitFox

Interesting.

Spare Oom

@KitFox True. And I also had to learn to say tissue instead of Kleenex. I remember in Jr. High not knowing that Kleenex was the brand name.

user19161

@DavidWallace Not cellotape?

Robusto

@JasperLoy "We are here to help the Vietnamese, because inside every gook there is an American trying to get out. It's a hardball world, son." — Pogue Colonel, Full Metal Jacket

David Wallace

12:41 PM

Nope. With an S.

user19161

@Robusto lol

Spare Oom

@KitFox I think I just say tape, or masking tape if I need that kind.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

David Wallace

"Cellotape" sounds like a recording of someone playing a large stringed instrument.

Robusto

@SpareOom Yeah, I had an exact parallel when I worked in Germany and tried to ask for Scotch tape. It took my co-workers quite a while until they realized I was asking for Tesafilm.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

12:42 PM

Wow this room is getting full.

KitFox

@SpareOom So it's just another way that brand names take over. Like in the South, where people order cokes and expect you to ask what kind.

JSBᾶngs

i have never heard the word "sellotape" before

Matt Эллен

yes, sellotape is the word

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Why with an s?

KitFox

@MrShinyandNew安宇 EVIL!

JSBᾶngs

12:42 PM

bizarre

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

It would make sense with a C.

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 lol

KitFox

I've only ever seen it written "cellotape."

Spare Oom

@KitFox But McDonalds isn't used as just any burger or any eatery, it's specific.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 sellotape.com

David Wallace

12:43 PM

It's a brand name, of the most popular transparent adhesive tape sold here.

KitFox

@SpareOom Tru dat.

Robusto

Even when I tried asking for the generic equivalent, "cellophane tape," they didn't make the connection right away.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Oh, so "jokes" with "spelling". Funney.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

and for those of you who didn't get it, in Harry Potter's world they use Spellotape.

KitFox

Hi @MrShiny.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

12:44 PM

Harry Potter sucks.

2

KitFox

shh

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox morning

Robusto

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 I second that emotion.

KitFox

> By the way, Thank you very much for doing this!

David Wallace

@MattЭллен That web site really sucks.

user19161

12:45 PM

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Yes I gave up watching after the first three movies.

KitFox

:4337461 Metonym?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@JasperLoy there's a movie?

Matt Эллен

@DavidWallace as do all flash based sights

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен but not flash based sounds. Like thunder.

Robusto

@MattЭллен Very punny.

user19161

12:45 PM

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 I know that is a joke. So you cannot troll me this time. Haha.

Spare Oom

@KitFox Yes, that's it. The point of it being a metronym makes a bit more sense, but it still doesn't sit well with me for food chains.

Robusto

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Abstract jinx!

David Wallace

@SpareOom Why are you uncomfortable with me saying I had Burger King for lunch?

Robusto

We need a framework for jinxes around here. Something like j[inx]Query.

Spare Oom

Oops G2g get some dental work done.

@DavidWallace It just sounds wrong.

user19161

12:47 PM

@SpareOom Good luck!

JSBᾶngs

@SpareOom yeah, that's bizarre. everyone says "I had McD for lunch."

KitFox

@SpareOom I think it's more like synecdoche, but I don't really understand the difference.

David Wallace

@SpareOom Nothing serious, I hope.

Spare Oom

Thx, @JasperLoy

F'x

hi all

Matt Эллен

12:47 PM

@SpareOom metronym made me think of things named after trains, but apparently it's an alternate spelling of matronym

user19161

@Fx Hi!

Spare Oom

@JSBᾶngs Except me, I guess.

KitFox

@MattЭллен It's not "metronym," it's "metonym." I always mess that up.

David Wallace

@MattЭллен You mean it's a game you play with matches on the Subway? To me, it conjures metronome.

JSBᾶngs

@SpareOom i guess we get to point at you and laugh.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

12:48 PM

It's matryoshkanym. Robusto had a question on those.

KitFox

It's my own fault for using the city example as a mnemonic.

user19161

@JSBᾶngs It's not just fast food. I would even say "I had Kenny Rogers for dinner" for example.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Except he called them babushkanyms.

KitFox

hahaha

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@JasperLoy but you'd only say that once.

JSBᾶngs

12:49 PM

you need to split the part about having Kenny Rogers into its own line no that it's a funnier star

Matt Эллен

well, unless you'd frozen his parts

F'x

@Robusto I AM IN UR COUNTRY TAKING UR JOBZ

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Well, I can split him up and eat different parts over several days.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@Fx someone has fled Hollande, eh ?

David Wallace

I hope this chat room isn't turning into a porn site.

F'x

12:50 PM

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 I fled before the results, actually :)

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@DavidWallace turning?

user19161

@JSBᾶngs Yes, exactly what I was thinking.

F'x

I voted (for him) then took a plane

KitFox

I hope this chat room is turning into a porn site.

3

F'x

now let them deal with it :)

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

12:51 PM

@JasperLoy Ooh, or clone him, and grew new ones, in a perpetual state of Kenny Rogers cannibalism.

Robusto

@Fx UR COUNTRY IS IN MESOPOTAMIA.

user19161

@DavidWallace It isn't already?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@KitFox turning?

user19161

@KitFox It isn't already?

David Wallace

It's not like any porn site I've ever seen.

YET!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

12:51 PM

@DavidWallace Rule 34

F'x

@Robusto in fact, I was happy to visit a part of the US that I had not visited before, so I would learn a new accent… but NJ doesn't really have a strong specific accent, it seems

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Wow Jasper is extra slow today. Quite an accomplishment. Everybody cherish Jasper's accomplishment.

Matt Эллен

I hope this chat room is revolving into a pornsite

KitFox

@Fx Are you insane?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

only, rule 34 backwards. Someone imagines a porn site that resembles this chat room, and poof! here we are.

F'x

12:52 PM

@KitFox I think not. Of course I am. Who are you talking about? Are they here yet?

KitFox

NJ has a very recognizable accent.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

If you call FAIL an accent...

David Wallace

Only to another hippopotamus.

KitFox

Similar to NY, but distinct.

Robusto

@Fx Huh? What, are you kiddin' me? Fuhgeddaboudit!

KitFox

12:53 PM

Hey, eh? I'm workin' 'ere!

F'x

@Robusto is that NJ specific? how is it different from, say, rural parts of MA or NY?

user19161

I was wondering why the US has all the New places, like New York, New Jersey, New Orleans, ...

KitFox

New Mexico.

New Hampshire.

David Wallace

It's the New World.

Matt Эллен

because the old ones already exist

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

12:53 PM

@JasperLoy The old ones are in Europe

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@JasperLoy It also has Old Dirty Bastards.

David Wallace

@MrShinyandNew安宇 except for Old Mexico.

Matt Эллен

Old New York was once New Amsterdam

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 I only heard of "dirty old men".

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@DavidWallace It was originally in Europe, but Columbus snuck it over here in his pocket.

Robusto

12:54 PM

@Fx It's similar to parts of NY, way different from rural MA. But it has its own character.

F'x

@Robusto I notice so much the difference between here and, say, London, that I don't pick up regionalisms yet

David Wallace

Are there any non-Americans here who can distinguish NJ speech from NY speech?

F'x

except for Texas, though, which I do manage to recognize…

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Fx What about Louisiana?

Robusto

@Fx Well, like everything else in America, it's a mix. You can talk to a lot of people in Boston before you hear a "genuine" Boston accent.

F'x

12:56 PM

@MrShinyandNew安宇 yeah, that too

@MrShinyandNew安宇 yesterday's cab driver was definitely from Louisiana, and we chatted a bit in Creole

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@DavidWallace Some kinds of NY speech are very distinct.

Robusto

@JasperLoy Except most people would say they had Kenny Rogers "over for dinner."

David Wallace

@MrShinyandNew安宇 OK, let me widen my question. Any non-North-Americans?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto unless they mean "food from the Kenny Rogers Restaurant"

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

F'x

12:58 PM

@Robusto well, I talked to some grad students here, born in Jersey, raised in Jersey

Robusto

@Fx Laissez les bontemps rouler!

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Hm.

This is how to teach people that context matters.

David Wallace

@Robusto Oh, I thought he meant he was playing Kenny Rogers music while eating dinner!

Robusto

@MrShinyandNew安宇 True.

F'x

I asked if they had traveled around the world, and one told me "yeah, I've been to Los Angeles and Las Vegas once"

Robusto

12:59 PM

@DavidWallace I didn't think it possible, but now I am all at sea in The Incomprehensible Room.

F'x

@Robusto apparently, this Creole isn't so much different from Guadeloupean Creole, because we could somewhat talk

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…