English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

3:00 PM

However, Georgia is just fine, and might even be preferable if you are unable to enable ligatures in your typesetting software.

But Alfios can work without them, too.

Alfios is available here. I believe it is now included in the text fonts link.

Cerberus

@Mitch But the latter might be more capable...

Alenanno

@tchrist Ok thanks, even if (whether it is good or bad) I think people won't really care whether I use ligatures or not. :D And I'm not sure about that question wording... Sounds too long.

KitFox

So @Mitch. You're actually Barrie?

Mitch

@tchrist The Georgian Secret Police have been notified. Expect a door knock in the next 10 minutes. Don't bother packing.

Cerberus

@Mitch Watch Downton Abbey!

Mitch

3:01 PM

@KitFox Ha ha! You noticed!

tchrist

@Alenanno There are people who don’t care about kerning either, but they can be punished.

KitFox

@Mitch WTF, dude?

Alenanno

@tchrist nods solemnly

Cerberus

Footmen are like the highest servants, who actually serve the guests at dinner and such.

Mitch

@Cerberus flunkies more capable than toadies or lackeys?

Cerberus

3:02 PM

A valet takes personal care of his master, including such important tasks as helping him put on his jacket.

Alenanno

@Robusto Hey there, what do you think of my ad?

tchrist

Alenanno

@tchrist Ahah yes I knew that. :D

KitFox

No xkcd in this chat.

tchrist

Their punishment is having them eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Robusto

3:03 PM

►

What I think of advertising in general. And I was in it.

Cerberus

@Mitch Ohh...I meant minions being less savvy than the other groups.

tchrist

And once having eaten of that fruit, they shall never again be free of the sensibility.

And the pain.

It is a fit punishment for the crime.

Robusto

@Alenanno: You should be schwacked.

Mitch

@Cerberus Yeah, that and the original and current upstairs downstairs. and Gosford Park. and .. uh.. Jeeves and Wooster. THere's a butler who is head of the servant staff, there's a valet which is a personal helper, there's a chauffeur who drives a car (were there chauffeurs before cars)?, but a footman? what doe -he- do?

KitFox

@Mitch Helps you enter and exit the carriage.

Or mount a horse.

By providing a place to put your foot.

Mitch

3:05 PM

@Cerberus but in a big enough household where they aren't doing double duty, a footman is -more- important than a valet?

Cerberus

I...don't think there were chauffeurs before motor cars.

@Mitch No, no.

Alenanno

@Robusto I... am not schwacked. lol

Mitch

I would think a meal servant would look forward to being the personal servant of one of the more important males of the household.

@Cerberus Oh. Yes.

Cerberus

A valet is the most desirable post, after the ehm master of the servants—what is his position called?

Robusto

I added the c to make a pun. See shwacked.

They mean the same thing, ultimately.

Alenanno

3:07 PM

I did notice the schwa lol

tchrist

@Cerberus You won’t shake BF that easily, I fear.

Mitch

@KitFox was it 'inappropriate'? I think it was appropriate 'borrowing' or 'scratch mixing'.

MετάEd

@Cerberus The butler.

KitFox

@Mitch You changed one sentence and copied the rest with nicer formatting.

Cerberus

@Mitch I think a footman doesn't have a very special function, as much as he is the highest type of presentable, factotum servant.

KitFox

3:07 PM

Without attribution.

Mitch

@KitFox wow. To be rich...and English...and living a hundred years ago.

@KitFox wait. are they lame or something?

Cerberus

@MετάEd Of course! The butler, yes.

@tchrist What?

MετάEd

There's also steward.

Mitch

@Cerberus butler.

Cerberus

Yeah.

So silly.

tchrist

3:08 PM

@Cerberus Bill Franke. And I was wrong: he’s deleted his answer.

KitFox

@Cerberus They are liveried for heaven's sake. Of course they are important.

Mitch

@Cerberus who was originally basically the sommelier (the wine steward), and the one who opened the bottle at the table.

Cerberus

That word is just as common in Dutch as it is in English, although we don't have footman. Valet is now becoming more popular in hotels and such, but still uncommon.

MετάEd

The chamberlain.

KitFox

The ombudsman.

The majordomo.

Cerberus

3:09 PM

@tchrist Ah. How do you mean shake? From his beliefs?

tchrist

From arguing.

But effectively, yes.

Mitch

@KitFox exactly, and totally negated everything with the first sentence. because that is what being clever is all about. (it might have been better for the effect if I hadn't reformatted things)

Cerberus

@KitFox Of course. But not as important and a valet, nor as the butler!

Alenanno

@tchrist Ok ligature fixed.

Cerberus

@Mitch Oh, really? Must have been long ago? I thought that was the kellner?

Mitch

3:11 PM

@Cerberus that's not an English thing I don't think.

MετάEd

@KitFox Good one.

Cerberus

Hmm.

It is originally German.

Robusto

Has the Large Hadron Collider Destroyed the World Yet?

Cerberus

It is not very common in Dutch either.

Ober is, which comes from German oberkellner, "master cellar guy".

Robusto

Wait, I spoke too soon.

►

@Cerberus I thought it was "master cellar dude" ...

Cerberus

3:12 PM

@MετάEd I think a chamberlain originally served as what a valet is now?

And I mean a nobleman's valet.

tchrist

@Alenanno Thanks. :)

Cerberus

Not the other kind.

@Robusto Pardon.

tchrist

@Cerberus Cellarer exists in English.

Cerberus

Hmm never seen that before.

Alenanno

Robusto

3:13 PM

Me neither.

KitFox

Chamberlain sounds like someone who manages the sleeping arrangements, or chambers.

Robusto

@Alenanno No ads in ELU chat, please.

Mitch

@KitFox maitre d'?

Cerberus

So a butler is a bottler, I believe?

MετάEd

@Cerberus Dunno.

Cerberus

3:14 PM

It's all coming back to me now.

Mitch

@KitFox empties the pisspot.

MετάEd

It's interesting how the titles change, though.

Mitch

@Cerberus Genau.

Robusto

@KitFox Sounds like a pacifist who promised peace in our time just before WWII.

KitFox

@Mitch Etc.

@Robusto Hahaha. Good one.

Cerberus

3:14 PM

@MετάEd It's a bit like a treadmill...

MετάEd

Seems analogous to the way taboo words drift.

Yes, treadmill. Exactly.

tchrist

@Robusto What? No cellarers between you? Haven’t you read The Name of the Rose?

Mitch

@Robusto No, that's Apollogia.

tchrist

Salvatore is the cellarer.

Robusto

@tchrist Yeah, but it was a long time ago. And I don't remember cellarer. Perhaps we read different translations?

Maybe I'm suppressing the memory.

Cerberus

3:15 PM

Chamberlain is kamerheer "chamber gentleman" in Dutch,

tchrist

I think there is only one English translation.

Mitch

@tchrist I had no idea that's what the 'name of the Rose' was all about. I thought it was about thinly veiled Sherlock Holmes and Watson, and solving a code from the labels of the rooms in the library.

Cerberus

Read it in Dutch.

Robusto

I usually remember odd words. Funny I don't recall that one. Is it used often?

tchrist

> Remigio of Varagine—cellarer; Salvatore of Montferrat—monk, associate of Remigio ...

Ok, it was Remigio.

I don’t have it in electronic form, so cannot count the instances.

Cerberus

3:16 PM

Perhaps it is only used for a monk?

Monks have all sorts of special functions.

Robusto

It's been so long I don't even remember the names. Damn, it was like 30 years ago? Really, that long?

Cerberus

12 for me.

I don't remember either.

I read it in one night.

tchrist

He was il cellario in the original Italian.

Mitch

@Cerberus Actually, I think a chamberlain must be a nobleman who replaced the commoner valet in the French court/household at Versailles. Same duties, but back home in the (French) provinces is probably a duke or something.

Cerberus

> n. person responsible for food and beverage supplies in a monastery (or other organization)

Robusto

3:17 PM

Yeah, I read it straight through as well.

MετάEd

@tchrist Right, because the salt was hugely valuable.

Cerberus

See? It is a monasterial function.

tchrist

> Nel monastero sono presenti anche due ex appartenenti alla setta dei dolciniani: il cellario Remigio da Varagine e il suo amico Salvatore, che parla una strana lingua. Remigio intrattiene un commercio illecito con una povera fanciulla del luogo, che in cambio di favori personali riceve cibo dal cellario. Anche il giovane Adso fa la conoscenza della ragazza e scopre così i piaceri della carne.

Mitch

@KitFox Is this better...

No reference. I just copied most of Barry's answer for effect. I agree with absolutely everything he said except for the first two words. — Mitch 4 mins ago

Robusto

All right, all right. Did we say we didn't believe you?

Cerberus

3:18 PM

@Mitch Hmm sounds credible if you say it like that.

Robusto

That question is a dupe anyway.

Mitch

@MετάEd the sellerer?

tchrist

cellarer /ˈsɛlərə(r)/. Hist.
Forms: 4-6 cell-, celerer(e, 6 selerer, 7 cellerar, 6- cellarer.
Etymology: ME. celerer, cellerer, a. Anglo-Fr. celerer, for OFr. celerier, f. celier cellar.
The officer in a monastery, or similar establishment, who had charge of the cellar and provisions.

Cerberus

We don't need the OED any more. We know everything already.

Robusto

4

Q: Is "since I'm" now an acceptable alternative to "since I was"?

In a recent episode of the television show Entourage, Ari Gold (a 40 year old man) says: I've known her since I'm 19. In an episode of Sex and the City, a character, who is 15, tells Carrie: I've been giving blowjobs since I'm 12. The speakers are replacing the past tense of the verb ...

Mitch

3:20 PM

@tchrist which is better in charge of the cellar or in charge of the attic?

Robusto

And there are others.

KitFox

@Mitch It's OK by me as long as Barrie is OK with it.

Mitch

@Cerberus more even!

Cerberus

Yes!

RegDwighт

Mount Everest in four billion pixels.

tchrist

3:22 PM

@RegDwighт That would be a square 17'6" on a side if displayed at 300 dpi.

Alenanno

@Robusto When you buy it, I'll stop. :P

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Big.

KitFox

@RegDwighт Wow that's cool. What are the glowy things?

Cerberus

I see an avalanche building up on the left side of the peak.

It looks ready to rumble!

And tumble.

KitFox

Oh. I couldn't get it to work the first time.

tchrist

3:23 PM

must commute ere rep-capping, damn it

Cerberus

That means you've lost.

Anonymous

In what cases do we use "had had"

Anonymous

Anyone? help

KitFox

Wha—going around again!

6

Q: What does "had had" mean? How does this differ from "had"?

For example, what is the difference between the following two sentences: I had a bad day I had had a bad day

meaning phrases past-perfect repetition

Robusto

5

Q: Proper usage of "since" and "from" with regard to duration of time

When you returned, I had been at home since 10 minutes. When you returned, I had been at home from 5 minutes. In such sentences, is it correct to use since or from? When since is used?

word-choice prepositions

Mitch

3:25 PM

@RegDwighт I can see my house from there.

KitFox

We've got a question on that.

RegDwighт

@KitFox you can click on them to zoom into a yet detaileder photo of that location. I haven't found out how to zoom back out to the main picture, though.

KitFox

Ah. Super-tweened.

MετάEd

Salacia (mythology)

In ancient Roman mythology, Salacia was the female divinity of the sea, worshipped as the goddess of salt water who presided over the depths of the ocean. She was the wife and queen of Neptune, god of the sea and water. That Salacia was the wife of Neptune is implied by Varro, and is positively affirmed by Seneca, Augustine and Servius. The god Neptune wanted to marry Salacia, but she was in great awe of her distinguished suitor, and to preserve her virginity, with grace and celerity she managed to glide out of his sight, and hid from him in the Atlantic Ocean. The grieving Neptune sent ...

KitFox

@RegDwighт Keep going forward.

MετάEd

3:25 PM

Had had what, wot?

KitFox

@RegDwighт Oh. I guess it only does that for one of them.

Anonymous

thanks

Robusto

@MετάEd No salacious links in chat.

KitFox

@RegDwighт Oh, but if you shift left there's a Home button.

MετάEd

@Robusto In this chat. ftfy

Cerberus

3:27 PM

@Robusto Hear, hear!

RegDwighт

@KitFox so far I tried two, and it going forward only works for the shop.

That rabbit hole is deep. You can click yet again. And then yet again.

I'm in the "Hardwear" shop now.

Inside.

KitFox

Yeah, that's the one I did first.

RegDwighт

And there's a picture of Mount Everest on the wall, and I can click on it.

Mitch

@MετάEd "That Salacia was the wife of Neptune is implied by Varro, and is positively affirmed by Seneca, Augustine and Servius." 'implied'? 'affirmed' as though it had some connection with reality?

Cerberus

You know what it means.

MετάEd

3:29 PM

@Mitch No, just that Varro didn't explicitly say so, and the others did.

RegDwighт

@KitFox I've done a 360 on that glacier, and I'm not seeing a home button, or any green rectangles to click on.

Cerberus

Navigation is annoying, btw.

I want to drag the landscape.

Mitch

@RegDwighт if you go to one of the green rectablges, if you then pan around, you can find -other green rectangles to go to.

Cerberus

Not glide over it.

KitFox

@RegDwighт The 360 one has a green square, back where you started from.

Mitch

3:31 PM

and the first view is from a green rectangle on a mountain on the other side that gives a good view of mt everest.

jinx

KitFox

The other two don't.

Anonymous

What is the difference between Repository & Depository? Anyone knows?

RegDwighт

@KitFox OIC.

I had zoomed in too much and missed it.

Okay, and the third one has the Home button.

Got it now.

KitFox

@TheCOMPLETEPHPNewbie A repository is where you keep things, a depository is where you put things.

Anonymous

@KitFox what is the difference then?

KitFox

3:34 PM

A depository is usually only used for the night deposit box. At least, as far as I've ever seen it.

MετάEd

Mitch

@RegDwighт I got into the till...they take paypal. I've almost hacked the phone of the guy on the left.

@TheCOMPLETEPHPNewbie is depository a thing?

RegDwighт

@MετάEd plagiarism.

Dec 18 at 11:55, by RegDwighт

KitFox

Oh my head is killing me.

RegDwighт

Someone took a perfectly fine picture, put some crappy Fox News graphics on it, and made all numbers sound like Hell. EPIC FAIL.

Anonymous

3:37 PM

no @mitch

Robusto

@RegDwighт You make it sound like there are Fox News graphics that aren't crappy.

Mitch

@RegDwighт which perfectly fine picture? that molten lava looks like -lunar- molten lava so I don't trust it..unless...they know where it's supposed to come from...

Cerberus

RegDwighт

@Robusto I apologize for that, but you have to understand I'm not on top of things right now, this end of the world is killing me.

Mitch

@Robusto I saw one once.

Cerberus

3:38 PM

A box on water.

What yacht could be uglier?

RegDwighт

@Cerberus Bill Gates'.

tchrist

I am not convinced the no-close/no-downvote policy is working:

0

Q: What do you call the people who like themselves?

How do you describe a person who appreciate himself ( kinda love himself) or really talk about himself in a way of selfishness ?

vocabulary

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Is it?

Robusto

@Mitch Yeah, right. Everybody has a story about seeing one once. Usually when you track down the source, they find they were tuned to a different channel: Animal Planet, or Discovery or something.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus you said "could", not "is".

Mitch

3:39 PM

@KitFox I don't think depository is a thing. You put things in a repository also.

Anonymous

narcissists ? @tchrist

Cerberus

Well, I don't think it could.

Mitch

@Robusto The learning channel..they -know- things.

KitFox

@Mitch You put them in a repository to keep them.

tchrist

In fact, it is if anything just exacerbating the problem.

RegDwighт

3:40 PM

Closing kind of still works.

What's driving me crazy are the upvotes on all that crap.

Mitch

@tchrist 'kinda of a jerk'

tchrist

@Mitch “kinda of”?

Mitch

@KitFox yeah but you don't do anything with a depository because there ain't no such thing.

tchrist

@RegDwighт Puppetry? Well, prolly not.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus then think the opposite, et voilà!

KitFox

3:41 PM

@Mitch merriam-webster.com/dictionary/depository

Mitch

@tchrist or 'your boss'.

Robusto

@tchrist Hey, we all like ourselves, except those of us who are filled with self-loathing. What's the over-under on how long it takes for this one to hit the multicollider?

KitFox

RegDwighт

If answers keep coming in at this rate, it will hit the MC in five minutes.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт NOU

Anonymous

3:42 PM

I got this answer:

depository - a place where something is stored, sure, but it is rooted in the word depose, so the depositor is giving it over. What is returned is something that is contractually equivalent to what was deposited... deposit a $100 bill, get a $100 back, but probably not that exact same $100 bill or it could 5 x $20's, 10 x$10's, etc... In the case of a run on the bank, you may not get it back at all... again it is the contractual agreement that determine liability of the depository.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus you were right! It works as well!

Mitch

@KitFox these 'words I've never heard of before' ar starting to anny me. I think we ned a code-freeze on their introduction. especially going on in the past. Exceptions: words -I- make up.

RegDwighт

@KitFox looks like someone disposing of their gold fish.

KitFox

@RegDwighт Doesn't it?

The only time I have ever seen the word depository is over the night deposit box at a bank.

Mitch

@TheCOMPLETEPHPNewbie OK then. if anything this tells you that 1) I am dumb but also 2) that dumb people don't recognize depository except possibly in the presence of a bank and 3) (well it doesn't tell you this) repository is where software engineers tend to put their code or hospitals put their medical records.

KitFox

3:44 PM

My head hurts so much I feel like I am going to throw up.

Mitch

@KitFox migraine or expectation of end of world?

Robusto

Wait, StackExchange is giving away weapons instead of hats now? And they have a trade-in policy?

3

Q: Why is it not recommended to trade hats for weapons or vice versa?

I've often traded a hat for 4-5 weapons, and afterwards people told me I shouldn't do that, and that it isn't recommended. I wasn't given an explanation. Could anyone shed some light on this? Why isn't it recommended to trade hats for weapons?

team-fortress-2 steam-trade

Cerberus

@RegDwighт It's always a please to bring new insights to the people and talking animals.

Robusto

Fuck these hats. I want a weapon.

Anonymous

UK's best book shipping company www.bookdepository.co.uk

Storing PHP libraries: PEAR ( PHP EXTENTION APPLICATION REPOSITORY)

Noah

3:46 PM

Fuck this winter bash thing.

MετάEd

@KitFox What's wrong

Noah

I cant get any hat.

Robusto

See? It's called a winter bash, not a winter dress-up party. Weapons make perfect sense.

Cerberus

A winter shooting?

How tasteful.

Robusto

Been done.

Cerberus

3:47 PM

Alas.

Robusto

You can't spell atlas without alas.

Mitch

@Noah downvote a post, immediately get a 'n00b' hat.

Cerberus

This is pathetic:

RegDwighт

Cerberus, Amsterdam, Netherlands

25.3k 2 38 91

grammar word-choice meaning single-word-requests grammaticality etymology verbs

Cerberus

Facebook is going to charge you for having messages from non-contacts delivered to your inbox, instead of to a special folder you never notice.

@RegDwighт You you....!

You will regret this, I swear!

I'll get back at you, you just wait.

RegDwighт

3:50 PM

You will forget this before I regret this, I swear!

Cerberus

Perhaps!

But!

RegDwighт

In fact I will remind you of this and you will have no idea.

Cerberus

Of what?

RegDwighт

Seven.

Cerberus

No idea what you're talking about.

RegDwighт

3:50 PM

Ah, sorry, I mistyped. Eight.

Cerberus

That's more.

Robusto

He means "Why is 6 afraid of 7?" "Because 7-8-9."

Noah

@Mitch Did one of yours and got nothing.

RegDwighт

@Robusto and guess who has a question for that.

8

Q: "After all 7 8 9" joke?

I know that it is very important to be aware of "hidden meanings" of words and phrases. (Especially if the meaning is sexual.) That is why I love Stephen Colbert's "The Word" segments and usually spend some time to "decipher" all the puns But I am really stuck with the recent one. Particularly I...

meaning humor pun

Noah

Hell with this freaking virtual system in place.

Cerberus

3:52 PM

I'm not even going to try and understand how Facebook's settings and policies work.

Robusto

You can't spell regret without

Egret

An egret () is any of several herons, most of which are white or buff, and several of which develop fine plumes (usually milky white) during the breeding season. Many egrets are members of the genera Egretta or Ardea which also contain other species named as herons rather than egrets. The distinction between a heron and an egret is rather vague, and depends more on appearance than biology. The word "egret" comes from the French word "aigrette" that means both "silver heron" and "brush," referring to the long filamentous feathers that seem to cascade down an egret's back during the bree...

Cerberus

It's just an unreliable messaging medium, and that's that.

Mahnax

@Cerberus So get rid of facebook then, easy.

Cerberus

It failed to notify me of new messages for a week.

@Mahnax No, it can be useful.

I'm just not expending any energy on it.

Using it when useful.

Mahnax

@Cerberus If you say so. I deleted mine about a month ago. I don't think I'll go back.

Noah

3:53 PM

@Cerberus Dont give a damn about it and you will be fine.

Robusto

@Cerberus How can they charge you money if you don't authorize it?

RegDwighт

@Cerberus they do not. I take PayPal.

Noah

I don't and I dont care what Mark has in mind.

RegDwighт

3

Q: Correct usage of infinitives

I am not sure about the usage of infinitives in this sentence: Finally, one of the accused confessed to have forged the director's signature on the report. Could anyone explain correct usage and explain it?

infinitive gerund complement

Cerberus

@Mahnax Well, without Facebook, it would have been much harder to arrange for my borrowing someone's dinner jacket, for example. I did that last Saturday.

@Robusto They can't.

Robusto

3:54 PM

@Cerberus They actually work?

RegDwighт

Look at the votes on the question, look at the votes on the answer. Now look at the question, and look at the answer.

This is crap.

Noah

@Cerberus You could have called your friends.

RegDwighт

@Robusto JINX!

Robusto

@RegDwighт The title should be edited into "Correct to usage of infinitives."

Cerberus

@RegDwighт If I ever hand out rewards for understanding FB's policies, you will be the first to receive one.

RegDwighт

3:55 PM

@Robusto it's his over seventh question with that title for today alone.

Cerberus

@Noah That is much more work, and much more awkward.

Noah

Do you think people didnt put on jackets before 2005.

Cerberus

And the people who responded were not people I would soon call.

Mahnax

@Cerberus Hmm, OK.

Robusto

Coca-Cola

Coca-Cola is a carbonated soft drink sold in stores, restaurants, and vending machines in more than 200 countries. It is produced by The Coca-Cola Company of Atlanta, Georgia, and is often referred to simply as Coke (a registered trademark of The Coca-Cola Company in the United States since March 27, 1944). Originally intended as a patent medicine when it was invented in the late 19th century by John Pemberton, Coca-Cola was bought out by businessman Asa Griggs Candler, whose marketing tactics led Coke to its dominance of the world soft-drink market throughout the 20th century. The ...

RegDwighт

3:56 PM

I know what the problem with @tchrist's answer is. The OP asked to explain correct usage and explain it. But tchrist only explained it. Slacker.

Cerberus

But they noticed my profile message. Or whatever it's called. I didn't send it to anyone, just posted in on my own page. Much less intrusive.

Then there's certain group events. It is a very efficient way of inviting people.

Robusto

@Cerberus Slacker.

Cerberus

Lastly, there is communicating with people you know vaguely but have some interest in, or checking such people out.

Noah

Has it ever happend that you got angry but never noticed it.

Cerberus

@Robusto I have never done such a thing, but others do, and so I would miss out on fun stuff.

@Noah I don't think so? Are you angry?

Robusto

3:58 PM

@Noah I am always angry, so it just feels normal to me.

Cerberus

...

Noah

@Cerberus I think so. Just shouted at someone.

Cerberus

Hmm yes, you may not notice if you are too busy focusing on things other than your own emotions.

MετάEd

Regret. Egret, greet, eger, gere, gree, rete, teer, terr, tree, ere, erg, err, gee, get, ree, reg, ret, tee, teg, ee, er, et, re, te. Regret.

RegDwighт

Rugrat.

Cerberus

3:59 PM

...

The Rugrats!

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…