English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

MετάEd

12:03 AM

Where's the hat for getting 5 hats? 10? 15?

Dammit. I seem to be upvoting.

(MALFUNCTION)

RegDwighт

Hat for getting 15 hats.

MετάEd

That's . . just wrong.

To all a good night. You will be assimilated.

RegDwighт

Night!

Matt Эллен

12:28 AM

balls. I missed the 10 vote window

now I have to start again

the shoes for @Kit's joke:

Robusto

12:56 AM

Those shoes have jumped the shark.

+1, beyond the question, I appreciate your courage to ask questions and to express so clearly what you really ask. However, Kit, the really today (21/12/2012) news is that I have gained the second gold medal, Maja docet :) — Carlo_R. 15 mins ago

And I thought the Orientals were inscrutable. They're nothing next to some of the Italians.

Matt Эллен

is that your really today news?

Robusto

That's iCarlo's really today news.

Matt Эллен

my really today news is that I should go to bed.

because it's really today 1am

Robusto

No, it's really tomorrow 1am.

But good-night anyway.

Oh, he's already aboard the giant penis.

RegDwighт

Win a trip to Fhallus Paradise with Gemini Croquettes.

Cerberus

1:29 AM

@Robusto Eggscuse me, I don't look like that.

The young guy looks stupid.

The other one too good.

Robusto

I was rounding up, but maybe I made a mistake.

Cerberus

Rounding up, is that some obscene act?

Robusto

Rounding, as in math(s).

Cerberus

"Yeah, so we rounded up some perps, locked them up, then at night my buddy and me rounded them up real good in their cells and posted the videos on a porn site."

@Robusto I don't think that is correct.

You sounded more like what I described.

Robusto

Seriously? You doubt my command of English?

Cerberus

1:33 AM

Yes.

You can't command it.

It does what it wills.

Robusto

> a. Mathematics Expressed or designated as a whole number or integer; not fractional.

Cerberus

All rules are in vain.

No, no.

Robusto

round up
vb (tr, adverb)
1. to gather (animals, suspects, etc.) together to round ponies up
2. to raise (a number) to the nearest whole number or ten, hundred, or thousand above it Compare round down

Cerberus

Look.

Who knows better what you meant, you or I?

> Nokia has ongoing patent disputes with HTC and ViewSonic, the company told Reuters today. The company is turning into a licensing juggernaut in the mobile space, earning around €500 million in patent royalties annually.

Ergo Nokia = patent troll.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

2:08 AM

At least they make products in that space. Unlike Microsoft, who only pretend.

Cerberus

3:31 AM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 True.

Well, actually, not entirely true.

Microsoft is said to be working on its own phone.

tchrist

4:34 AM

Sometimes, people here amaze me.

For example, you have somehow let languish unanswered for lo these 19 months the obvious answer to this question:

0

A: Is there a straightforward word for "The thing in between first and second"?

The word you are looking for is the sesquialter or sesquialterous element. You can also use sesquialter as an ordinal, for the midpoint between first and second. That’s because it means one-and-a-halfth, but is much substantially easier to say. It is one of those sesquipedalian terms surpassing...

@Cerberus I thought you might like it.

Cerberus

Of course, who doesn't know sesquialter?

tchrist

Indeed.

It falls so much more trippingly off the tongue than doth one-and-a-halfth.

It well meets the OP’s requirement of “straightforward”, too.

MετάEd

4:55 AM

Sesquialterous is easier to say than one-and-a-halfth?

ha ha ha ha ha

(DELETE) (DELETE) (DELETE)

Have we decided for sure that planem is not NnnS?

MετάEd

5:37 AM

@tchrist :-)

tchrist

Where the hell somebody who can’t even spell I’d properly comes up with “durative vs. punctual verb”, I have no idea.

MετάEd

Jul 21 at 21:24, by MetaEd

@DavidWallace Spelings overated.

Cerberus

That's nice.

Now it's bed time.

Bye lads.

tchrist

@MετάEd Depends for what value of we. Ask @Reg. He may be biding his time before pouncing.

MετάEd

@Cerberus G'nite.

@tchrist That depends on what the meaning of be be.

tchrist

5:51 AM

Don’t call me baby.

Cerberus

Bay!

tchrist

bayyyyyyy

Matt Эллен

9:27 AM

see, we might be behind IT Security in number of hats, but our hat quality is higher, because we have fewer users collecting hats.

Johan Larsson

How do one get a hat?

Matt Эллен

first you have to log into winterba.sh

then do something like up voting 10 posts, and you will get a hat!

Johan Larsson

I'm bald so I could probably find use for one

Matt Эллен

to keep your head warm and such.

Johan Larsson

and looking less shiny

I earned fanatic today, not sure I'm proud of that one

Matt Эллен

9:57 AM

You should definitely be proud! It shows commitment to EL&U :D

Andrew Leach

10:57 AM

@MετάEd Or henfer, who seems very Nortonesque.

0

Q: Working In Cotton

There is some issue with this: DEIRDRE FITZGERALD, a 1989 graduate of the national College of Art and Design in Dublin who also shows her knitwear at the Powerscourt Center, has her eye on the young market. Working mainly IN cotton, viscose and combinations of the two, she likes long, slink...

Which reminds me, is it good form to edit his posts to add a large exclamation mark?

Matt Эллен

I don't know. I tend to just flag the ones I think are his

Andrew Leach

Yes, I flagged that one. Where's a mod when you need one?!

Matt Эллен

Well, you know how the weekends are :D

sarahTheButterFly

hey guys, I purchased some fungicide. The instructions on the back of the bottle say "Apply at 4-6 weekly intervals.."? Does it mean, it should be applied 4-6 times a week? Or every 4-6 weeks?

Andrew Leach

Hallo Sarah.

It's every four to six weeks, not almost daily.

sarahTheButterFly

11:02 AM

cool thanks a lot Andrew.

Andrew Leach

There's probably a related question in the site to which yours might be linked.

sarahTheButterFly

yeah, I asked the question, but doesn't seem to be getting answers. I am not in the US and it's almost my bed time, so I am a bit impatient. :P

Andrew Leach

I'm in the UK. It's Saturday morning here (11am). In the US it's between 3am and 6am, so I doubt there will be many answers from there quickly!

sarahTheButterFly

I see. I am lucky you are here. :) I'm in Australia. It's Saturday evening 10pm.

Anyways, thanks for your help! Have a good day and Merry Christmas!

Andrew Leach

@sarahTheButterFly And to you. By the way, I've searched and I can't find a similar question about n-weekly intervals. And you have an answer from someone in South-East Asia.

Matt Эллен

11:13 AM

I probably won't be around next week, so merry christmas to all EL&Uers, or happy season's greetings, whatever floats your boat! Toodles

Robusto

12:44 PM

1

Q: Contextual difference between "That is why" vs "Which is why"?

Please consider the below sentences. I have flunked the exam, that is why I am attending coaching classes. I have flunked the exam, which is why I am attending coaching classes. Is there any change in the meaning of sentence if I replace That is why with Which is why? For me both are suit...

meaning-in-context

C'mon, peeps. We've answered that vs. which dozens of times by now, haven't we?

Andrew Leach

english.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/which-that

tchrist

1:47 PM

He keeps coming back for more:

0

Q: Right word to "convince some body softly to do something"?

Please consider below sentence Ever since Raghav lost his job, she hadn't met me too often as she wanted to be with him. Finally, on her weekly holiday I ____ her to meet up Which of the following words fits best for the above blank? Please find dictionary meanings for the words also. C...

word-choice

0

Q: Nuances between extenuate and palliate?

I'm looking for a word which defines the act of "making an offence look less severe". However, this can be done rightfully (because an offence might in reality be excusable because of unfavorable circumstances) or unrightfully (because there are no excuses for the offence, but the offender is try...

meaning word-usage ambiguity nuance

Andrew Leach

@tchrist Unfortunately there are those in our community who believe there is no such thing as a stupid question; there are only questions which require answers.

Not that those are necessarily stupid; but they are very badly expressed. I don't know if they are salvageable.

Robusto

@tchrist You're killing me — softly, but still killing me.

tchrist

2:02 PM

Would you rather I killed you louder?

Robusto

WHY DON'T THESE PEOPLE READ?

If you read widely, you don't have to ask questions like those.

tchrist

Peephole optimization at its worst.

Robusto

The differences between extenuate and palliate are not nuances. They are big, honking differences.

tchrist

Ships passing in the night on skew vectors through four-space.

Tristan wants some pix of mincing tarts, the saucy perv.

Robusto

Might as well ask what the nuances between grove and garden are. No, that's too close. How about baseball and mung bean?

tchrist

2:09 PM

Apples and avarice. Oranges and orneriness.

Robusto

Questions and quartiles.

Quartiles and floor tiles.

tchrist

Sempiternal and sesquialterate.

RegDwighт

Just saw this on Reddit @Rob.

Robusto

Hahaha. Tru dat.

Penn & Teller did a whole Bullshit episode on the claim that violent video games make people violent.

RegDwighт

Every time video games come up as an excuse, I have to think of that school shooter in Germany a couple years back. He was a gamer, too, he played... ping pong.

Robusto

2:19 PM

Hands off the 2nd Amendment, but all you can eat on the 1st.

RegDwighт

Nobody argued ping pong should be verboten.

tchrist

Confusion of causation and correlation?

RegDwighт

Not one person.

Cerberus

Isn't the issue rather whether some people are more sensitive to violence in video games?

RegDwighт

Those people are sensitive to any violence, though.

Cerberus

2:20 PM

Possibly.

RegDwighт

You might as well lock them up to not let them watch the evening news.

Robusto

Violent media and video games have led Japan to have ... um, the highest rate of violent media and video games and one of the lowest rates of murder and other violent crimes in the civilized world.

tchrist

I should rather prefer that eight-year-olds not watch the evening news.

They have no guns in Japan.

Robusto

But guess what? Japan doesn't permit handguns and assault rifles. I wonder if those things are related?

Jinx.

Cerberus

I think research has so far failed to show much of a connection between film/game violence and shootings, but more research won't hurt.

@Robusto Yeah.

Robusto

2:21 PM

Yeah, torture the numbers some more.

RegDwighт

@Robusto commented NRA, "But the Japanese have one of the highest suicide rates. They only don't shoot other people because they shoot themselves first!"

tchrist

They also took away the samurais’ swords. You would be amazed what that did to the incidence of sword murders and misadventures.

RegDwighт

Why did I just mistype NRA?

Robusto

@RegDwighт Which is what I wish Adam Lanza would have done before going out and mowing down children.

RegDwighт

You don't say.

Cerberus

2:23 PM

The solution is obvious.

More guns at schools.

To defend against the other guns.

Andrew Leach

What, arm the children?

Cerberus

Preferably.

But I think what they proposed was guards at every school.

Robusto

> You can have my Leisure Suit Larry when you pry it from my cold dead hands!

Cerberus

I think many Jewish schools already have armed guards?

RegDwighт

@Cerberus I dunno, that reminds me of Paul Watzlawick. "More of the same does not help."

Cerberus

2:25 PM

reuters.com/article/2012/12/21/…

Robusto

Actual gun nut forum posts.

RegDwighт

Paul Watzlawick

Paul Watzlawick (July 25, 1921 – March 31, 2007) was an Austrian-American family therapist, psychologist, communications theorist, and philosopher. A theoretician in communication theory and radical constructivism, he has commented in the fields of family therapy and general psychotherapy. Watzlawick believed that people create their own suffering in the very act of trying to fix their emotional problems. He was one of the most influential figures at the Mental Research Institute and lived and worked in Palo Alto, California, until a cardiac arrest at his home in Palo Alto caused his deat...

Cerberus

@RegDwighт That's the idea. They're trying to give this their own twist, to further their own agenda.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus I meant your stance on research.

:P

Follow the gray arrow, Neo.

Cerberus

@Robusto Doesn't look very pretty for a guy.

@RegDwighт Ah. I didn't think I needed to, because "more of the same" seemed to fit the context so well.

Robusto

2:27 PM

@Cerberus I don't know what that avatar is supposed to represent. But it seems kind of emblematic of their state of mind, doesn't it?

RegDwighт

@Cerberus I no rite.

Cerberus

Do you always do that, answer several lines in a row and in advance, in just one line?

RegDwighт

AFK BBL

@Cerberus see above line.

QED

Cerberus

@Robusto I don't even understand it: she seems to curse the NRA?

@RegDwighт You really didn't need this second line.

Robusto

I think that's a guy posting. See above for my opinion of the avatar.

6 mins ago, by Robusto

Fuck all these motherfuckers. Fuck the NRA. Even the gun boards are lighting up in high dudgeon about that stupid fuck's comments about video games and movies.

tchrist

2:29 PM

Do footnote superscripts go inside or outside a following comma or period?

Robusto

@tchrist I'm glad I don't have to worry about those issues anymore.

Andrew Leach

@tchrist Depends if it refers to a word or the complete sentence.

Cerberus

@tchrist I think both are used, but I normally put it after for...aesthetic reasons.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus I wasn't sure. Because it was you. I didn't want to have to stay and explain more. Like now.

Cerberus

I think that's standard.

Even when it only refers to a single word.

RegDwighт

2:31 PM

Cerberus

@RegDwighт That's three.

@RegDwighт Ohh that's cool! Can I join?

tchrist

> That is because foo means *bar*¹, but has been largely forgotten by history.² In other news. . . .

Idiots.

I am so tired of the lame broken markup in chat.

That works fine on the main site.

@Cerberus Anyway, would that look right? Notice one is inside and the other outside.

Cerberus

I have no objections, but I would personally put it after bar,.

tchrist

Ok.

Andrew Leach

@tchrist Who you calling idiot?

Cerberus

2:34 PM

Because this is ugly. But some people do it this way.

tchrist

I wonder whether this is stare decisis.

Andrew Leach

That could be fine, depending on what the footnotes are actually referring to.

Cerberus

So you will see both methods used.

tchrist

@AndrewLeach Programmers who make chat markup so dodgy.

Andrew Leach

@tchrist Oh, them. Yes, idiots.

tchrist

2:35 PM

Is there any echo in here?

Cerberus

> When there are punctuation marks (e.g. a comma, colon or period) at the point where the footnote indicator should be inserted, the indicator is placed after the punctuation in English but before the punctuation in French and Spanish. — dd.dgacm.org/editorialmanual/ed-guidelines/footnotes/…

I cannot confirm this, nor can I refute it.

Robusto

Cerberus

All I know is that I put it after the punctuation mark at all times, and that I have seen it both ways in respectable works.

So it doesn't matter a great deal.

@Robusto Lovely.

Robusto

It's an encouraging sign that dingbats like these are calling bullshit on the NRA. It means, at the very least, that the gun lobby may be faltering.

Cerberus

> Hart's Rules say the footnote reference goes after the punctuation. But not everyone follows Hart's Rules.

Robusto

2:40 PM

I would get down my Chicago Manual of Style but I'm too lazy.

Cerberus

@Robusto The game "lobby" is just more powerful, in that games are more fun.

Robusto

@Cerberus That doesn't make any sense at all.

Cerberus

None of this specifically addresses footnotes that apply to a single word only, but I personally make no distinction.

@Robusto Why not? People like playing games more than they like the NRA.

Robusto

@Cerberus Which people are these?

Cerberus

@Robusto The one you quoted. That's 1.

Robusto

2:42 PM

1 min ago, by Cerberus

@Robusto The game "lobby" is just more powerful, in that games are more fun.

Your statement is balderdash as it stands.

Cerberus

It was a joke.

Robusto

Oh. Sometimes it's hard to tell with you.

Cerberus

You just need to read.

Robusto

I do read.

I am a reader.

I am reading right now.

Cerberus

What I meant is that people like playing games a lot, so in this case even gun nuts won't listen to the NRA.

So the game "lobby" is just...the fact that games are fun.

Robusto

2:43 PM

The RNA? What does this have to do with biochemistry?

Andrew Leach

DNA.

Robusto

Meanwhile, go upvote my answer on the awe question. I think it is particularly fine.

Andrew Leach

I am in awe of it.

Robusto

That is the proper response.

Cerberus

I need an aspirin.

Robusto

2:45 PM

That is not the proper response.

Cerberus

Not your fault.

Andrew Leach

I am a master of sarcastic understatement.

Robusto

@AndrewLeach I am in awe of your hyperbole there.

Cerberus

But was that an understatement?

Why must they make aspirins so bitter?

Why not coat them in something less offensive?

Like Ibuprofen.

Hey, is it OK to drink alcohol with aspirin?

Robusto

@Cerberus Uh, if it's bitter it's not aspirin. Or else you don't know what bitter means.

Cerberus

2:47 PM

Paracetamol.

I don't think we use real aspirin any more.

Do you?

Robusto

@Cerberus Seriously? Alcohol and aspirin are fine together, but you shouldn't take them on an empty stomach.

Cerberus

Yes, I ate first.

I have this party I have to go to in a minute.

Robusto

@Cerberus Of course I do. If it doesn't say acetylsalicylic acid, it ain't aspirin.

Andrew Leach

@Cerberus (a) Acetylsalicylic acid is unpleasant; (b) so you give up after a while and don't do too much damage with too many.

Cerberus

We call paracetamol aspirin too, because aspirin was once used in roughly the same situations.

Robusto

2:49 PM

BTW, Paracetamol is acetaminophen. Don't take it with alcohol. Don't you know anything?

Cerberus

@AndrewLeach That makes sense.

@Robusto I don't!

Robusto

@Cerberus That's like calling arsenic ambrosia.

Cerberus

Actually, I drank alcohol with paracetamol yesterday as well, I think, but the alcohol came like 5 hours later than the paracetamol.

Johan Larsson

Now you know stay away from paracetamo + alcohol, your liver will thank you

Cerberus

@Robusto Mebbeh.

@JohanLarsson Is it really that bad?

What if I wait for an hour or so?

Andrew Leach

2:51 PM

@Cerberus You can't get paracetamol in bottles of 100 any more in the UK. 16's only.

People would die horribly of liver failure after taking 100 at a time.

Cerberus

I popped a single pill yesterday, and a single one just now.

Andrew Leach

That's almost certainly not enough to kill you.

Cerberus

So how long until I am allowed to drink again? Hours?

Andrew Leach

But don't sue me if you die.

Cerberus

I will consider not suing you if I die.

Robusto

2:53 PM

The human liver is said to have a maximum daily capacity to metabolize 4 grams of acetaminophen. A lethal dose is 10 grams. That is one of the narrowest ranges of safe vs. lethal of any over-the-counter pharmaceutical. And btw, alcohol is a force multiplier for the ill effects of acetaminophen.

Cerberus

Ah...

Johan Larsson

Did a quick goolge and found that half-life for 500mg paracetamol is 2 hours

Cerberus

Ah OK.

RegDwighт

►

From the same episode, actually, IIRC.

Robusto

@JohanLarsson Half-life as an analgesic, or half-life in the liver? There is a difference.

Cerberus

2:55 PM

The one I took was 500 mg.

I knew lots of alcohol with paracetamol was bad. My friend does this, eat two paracetamols before bed if he has drunk too much.

RegDwighт

Still AFK.

Robusto

0

Q: Is “-th” still a productive suffix in English?

The main question here is whether using -(e)th to create ordinals out of cardinals1 is still considered a productive suffix in English. Is it? If so, then does it matter whether we are in a formal or informal register? Is it accepted in some contexts but not in others? Is it blocked by certa...

numbers suffixes ordinals affixes productiveness

The hat war just got escalated.

Cerberus

Of course I tried to dissuade him.

Johan Larsson

@Robusto hmm, idk. I'm no xpert. Have to google analgesic too

Cerberus

Pain-killer.

@RegDwighт Haha.

Andrew Leach

2:57 PM

@Robusto What? How else do we say fourth?

tchrist

Anybody gotten a bounty hat yet?

Cerberus

I wish I didn't have to go to this party, but I do. Sooo I have to make a call now. AFK

tchrist

@Rob Just be happy I didn’t ask about the placement of footnoting superscripts.

Even though that would be better than 90% of our daily questions.

You may have that one if you’d like.

Robusto

Not complaining. I just know what you're up to is all.

My response is an amused, indulgent chuckle.

tchrist

Actually, you have not looked deeply enough. This one is for the necro.

Cerberus

3:02 PM

Phew, postponed by an hour and a half.

@tchrist Why not post it?

tchrist

@Cerberus A sesquihoral reprieve is still a reprieve nonetheless.

Cerberus

0

A: Is “-th” still a productive suffix in English?

The short answer: yes, it is productive, because you can create words using this suffix that have never been heard before, such as the two-trillion-and-sixteenth coin in Scrooge McDuck's Money Bin.

@tchrist Indeed!

Cerberus

3:20 PM

I have a question.

I'm texting my friend to wish her a happy birthday.

Robusto

That's an odd present.

Cerberus

I know that her mother went to hospital, and that she may or may not have cancer.

But I'm not supposed to know.

Andrew Leach

@Cerberus texting?

Cerberus

I still want to wish her all the best.

@AndrewLeach Oops!

What do I say to her?

Robusto

@Cerberus Wish her all the best. Just don't mention things you aren't supposed to know. She doesn't need the extra stress just now, most likely.

Cerberus

3:22 PM

Yeah exactly. But how do I say that in Dutch?

"All the best" is such a nice expression.

But "het beste" is somehow less appropriate.

What I have now is "I hope you're headed towards a good new year" (it sounds better in Dutch).

Robusto

@Cerberus How would I know how to express that in Dutch? Have you tried Google Translate? ^)^

Cerberus

Hehe.

You wouldn't.

But maybe you had some other suggestion, something else that I could wish her.

Robusto

I can only give advice on Dutch phrasing in several alternate universes.

Cerberus

I thought you knew all of Dutch, and it was "ananas"?

Andrew Leach

Isn't that pineapple or something?

Robusto

3:26 PM

I just meant that I could make up words, the way you Dutchfolk do.

Cerberus

@AndrewLeach Yup.

Robusto

@AndrewLeach Do a search in chat for the etymology of pineapple and ananas.

Cerberus

Non-native speaker = NNS = ananas = pineapple.

Robusto

It has a long and storied history.

Cerberus

See? Not that long.

Andrew Leach

3:27 PM

@Cerberus Oh, that explains a lot.

Johan Larsson

we have ananas in Sweden too, never though Swedish was anything like Dutch, they sound so different

Cerberus

@AndrewLeach I know. It took me ages to find out.

@JohanLarsson Ananas is a pretty international word!

Robusto

Apr 18 '11 at 20:58, by Robusto

@RegDwight — Well, it's kind of prounced "enneness" ...

Here's where it all started ^

Cerberus

And I wasn't even there!

Always this secrecy.

tchrist

0

Q: Do footnoting superscripts go inside or outside punctuation?

When using superscripts to indicate a footnote, do these fall inside or outside adjacent punctuation? Is that answer to this applicable worldwide, or just to specific regions or publishers? Does it matter what the particular punctuation is, including such punctuation as commas, colons, parenthe...

punctuation style-manuals footnotes

Cerberus

3:34 PM

What I do know is that notes within notes are a no-no! — Cerberus 11 secs ago

tchrist

Baited.

Robusto

The hat dance is makin' peoples crazy. The inmates are no longer running the asylum, but the staff are now officially the inmates.

tchrist

@Mitch thinks that halfth is somehow forbidden for ³⁄₂ᵗʰ. I am trying to figure out why. Is it because it is non-integral? Or because 2 > 2ⁿᵈ? I find plenty of citations for the ¹⁄epsilonᵗʰ thingie.

@Robusto What, you prefer all the idiot questions we have been cursed to suffer unclosingly? :)

Cerberus

@tchrist I no-no.

Robusto

3:55 PM

@tchrist Up is down. Black is white. C'mon, let's all party like it's 1999!

tchrist

Some madhatter has downvoted my -th question, so I have added puzzling examples to give them a chance to reconsider the matter.

Cerberus

@tchrist No offense, but the answer is beyond any doubt "yes".

It would be closed on Linguistics.SE.

Robusto

@tchrist And you seem to have given spicey a hardon.

tchrist

@Cerberus Could you please look over my new examples then? Are those all honky-dory?

Robusto

ELU has become the Large Hardon Collider.

tchrist

3:59 PM

@Robusto I should rather give him a fruitcake.

Cerberus

They are irrelevant, because the only thing that counts is whether a speaker feels he can use it as a suffix to create words, and any new word is proof enough.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…