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2:20 AM
Has anyone heard from Bruno lately?
there is some interesting catcode twiddling going on in l3fp that i'm curious about :)
 
 
4 hours later…
6:04 AM
$ pdftex termmenu-demo.tex
This is pdfTeX, Version 3.14159265-2.6-1.40.15 (TeX Live 2014) (preloaded format=pdftex)
 restricted \write18 enabled.
entering extended mode
(./termmenu-demo.tex
(/usr/local/texlive/2014/texmf-dist/tex/latex/l3kernel/expl3-generic.tex
(/usr/local/texlive/2014/texmf-dist/tex/latex/l3kernel/expl3-code.tex)
(/usr/local/texlive/2014/texmf-dist/tex/latex/l3kernel/l3pdfmode.def)
(/usr/local/texlive/2014/texmf-dist/tex/latex/l3kernel/l3unicode-data.def))
*************************************************
Does anything like this exist yet? Once I finish up some documentation, I think I'll upload to CTAN. gist.github.com/vermiculus/03cd755c7354caf29e79
 
yo'
7:04 AM
I am officially an idiot.
#missedmybus
 
7:25 AM
/me cackles
1
Q: Use truetype Comic Sans font in XeTeX

Z.H.I want to test truetype comic sans fonts in xetex, the following codes are modified from source of free-math-font-survey: \documentclass{article} \usepackage{amsmath,amssymb} \usepackage[no-math]{fontspec} \setmainfont{Comic Sans MS} \usepackage{unicode-math} \setmathfont{Comic Sans MS} \begin{d...

 
yo'
+1 for the aim of teaching high math to 5-year-olds. /sarsasmyo' 17 secs ago
 
7:49 AM
Good maen
 
yo'
8:03 AM
@ChristianHupfer hi there
How can I make a single frame respect the slides in handout mode?
 
 
3 hours later…
10:38 AM
Everyone got their copy of TUGBoat?
 
I feel rather strange reading the latest Meta questions/answers/comments.
 
10:56 AM
@Johannes_B Indeed
@SeanAllred Yes
 
@JosephWright No. :(
 
@Johannes_B: We've a user here that thinks he is the avenger of closed questions.
@Johannes_B: And in my opinion he is objecting everything what I am saying. If say the sky is blue he will say, it's red ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer It's all a question of the review system: it is far from universally popular
 
I have bulgur with vegetables for lunch, very yummy.
 
@JosephWright: That's true. And errors happen. Of course I am not failsafe when voting for deletion or closing, but in that two cases I think my votes are justified. But am I sick of his constant attacks especially on me. He has one of the marshal badges -- what does he think is done to the posts he successfully flagged? ;-)
 
11:08 AM
@ChristianHupfer You do know we very rarely do anything with flagged posts, yes?
@ChristianHupfer It's a question of timing: before the review system, we were looking at least a couple of weeks before anyone considered closing questions
 
@JosephWright Pretty much my thoughts.
 
11:53 AM
@JosephWright: I can't say anything about the time before. Nowadays, with a lot of duplicates (the more question the more the chance a topic has been asked before), it's justified, in my point of view, to reduce the review time. Not any question that has been brought to the queue should be closed within minutes or few hours
 
@ChristianHupfer I think it is more in terms of unclear. If i vote a question as unclear, because it is unclear to me, there will 4 four other dudes that agree with me and the Q is closed. Within an hour, or two. But another one might come along later that day, see the question, reads and understand it but cannot provide an answer, because the question is closed. Or wouldn't even consider reading it, because it is closed anyway.
I have vtc quite a lot of old questions that were laying around. I my pov, all of them were unclear, because information were missing. But maybe someone could have ansered it.
 
@ChristianHupfer Well I'd still like to hear from the OP that it really is a dupe first, but I can see that POV
 
12:09 PM
@JosephWright The problem that i see, is that some of the solutions are hidden in the marked dupe in some way and not obvious for the guy that was just asking the same. If i have to carefully read the old question and answer carefully to judge if it answers the current question, it will be much harder for the current OP.
On the other hand, there are question we use as duplicatesm that have a one line answer without any explanations. Some of them are mere hacks than real solutions.
 
@Johannes_B Quite: that's why I favour waiting for feedback, at least over short periods. If the OP never responds then closing as a dupe may well be the best approach after some time.
@Johannes_B That in itself doesn't stop the question being a dupe, it means the older question needs better answer(s) :-)
 
12:25 PM
@JosephWright Do we have a meta Q on that? What kind of answer are we ini favour of? Short and to the point, a few lines of code hingerotzt, as Ulrike would say. Or give a bit of background and explanation?
Every once in a while we get something like i want to add x to titlepage. We have a few extensive answers on this, dealing with that in more or less generic ways. Answer the current question specifilically? If it got an answer no need to close. But wouldn't closing this as a dupe of a more generic Q/A be more in the sense of a knowledge database? Who is deciding this part? That whole Meta-confusion brought up some questions in me, as you can see.
 
@Johannes_B Difficult one to which I don't have a simple answer, hence my point that I tend to see what the OP feels. Of course, I'm rather constrained in voting to close anyway, so my position is atypical.
 
12:40 PM
@JosephWright Sure, if the OP confirms it, no problem. Another example: All those recent biblatex questions asking for minor changes. None of them is obviously a duplicate of tex.stackexchange.com/questions/12806/…, but mentioning this is really a good idea. Leaving the link in a comment doesn't do any help. Mentioning this in the answer doesn't help much either for now.
But somebody coming here via google for a similar problem might find that interesting.
 
0
Q: The StackExchage model is evil

Paulo CeredaTitle says it all, I think. The framework in which our community runs, the StackExchange model, is evil. Essentially, inherently evil. [1] Friends, reputation is a way of having fun, not a status. We like palindromic numbers, and that is it. Anything beyond this comes from the evil. [2] The re...

3
 
@PauloCereda Nice use of biblical references: DEK would approve
 
@JosephWright Thank you. :)
 
12:57 PM
@ChristianHupfer If you have something to say please put my name on the comment instead of passive agression. I am using my power of annoyance to the reviewers because clearly they are using theirs with their button clicking. I don't use insults I hardly ever review anything. So I'm not the avenger or the saint or any other bad nickname joke. I'm just hanging out here for my own fun.
So if you have something to say chat room is the place.
 
@JosephWright I think the linked meta by Paulo deserves this special star :-)
 
@ChristianHupfer I don't need to be approved or whatever by anyone. My premise is that a few users hijacked the review system and you are one of them. My message ends here.
The rest is your extrapolation
 
@percusse @ChristianHupfer Cookies. Ducks, penguins, coffee, music <- things i like.
 
@Johannes_B Come to amsterdam I'll introduce you to all of those in a very very different context ;)
 
Quaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaak
 
1:02 PM
@PauloCereda Quak
 
Still need to figure out how to transcribe my penguin speech.
 
@percusse Holy cow! :P
 
1:26 PM
@percusse That is crazy. I'd rather have a cooky. A simple plain chocolate cooky. I better not eat any cooky in Amsterdam.
 
1:50 PM
@ChristianHupfer: Thanks for the edit, apparently a duck can't spell. :)
 
@JosephWright Received and read. Either I'm reading faster or the articles are getting shorter :(
 
@SeanAllred I was gonna add lotsa ducks in mine, but the article would grow to 16 pages. :P
 
@PauloCereda It was a nice article on arara regardless – I never actually knew the history of the tool :) And I'm sure you could have snuck in a few as footnotes, citations, subtitles, wrapped figures, etc.
 
@SeanAllred :)
 
2:06 PM
@JosephWright concerning the expansion/smuggling question: I've seen this solution before in 2e (courtesy of egreg) and I suppose this is what I was trying to avoid in asking for a 'philosophically good' solution. TeX is and will always be TeX, but expl3 tries very hard to make these types of twiddles a thing of the past. But of course this is only my perspective – with your expl3 hat on, do you have any thoughts to that?
reference answer: tex.stackexchange.com/a/246542/17423 (and thanks for it by the way :) I was wondering how the \expandafter\endgroup trick would look in expl3)
@PauloCereda Concerning your meta post, I guess I don't fully agree (or maybe I misunderstand the new holding process, or maybe the interface needs a slight change of wording, or maybe…). If memory serves, we recently went from closing a question because 'it was bad or unworkable' to because 'it needs some work in order to be a good question / answerable'. Are we not acting in accordance with this?
Regardless of whether or not we are, perhaps are reference to 'close' should be moved to 'put on hold' or something similar. 'Close' seems just that: behind closed doors by greater powers than you – and that's certainly not something we want new users to feel.
 
@SeanAllred I was actually talking in general. :) No recent events were involved. I just mentioned that, to the extent of my knowledge, the current review system doesn't bring any new improvements to what has been done since the beginning of the community, but it adds an unnecessary complexity layer which can lead to hasty actions. I still prefer the slow pace.
 
@JosephWright Is stuff like that allowed? tex.stackexchange.com/questions/246575/…
 
I believe that ,since this community has a slow traffic, we could handle things better without the need of a review system that can be misused, even if it's for "a greater good".
2
 
2:21 PM
@JosephWright (or others) RE tex-live list message about adding fonts: am I correct in remembering the rule of thumb that something's license has to be acceptable to Debian in order to be included in TeX Live?
 
@SeanAllred There are too many possible variations on what and how you want to smuggle past the group.
 
@PauloCereda I definitely agree with the slower pace bit :) specifically to this site and in a more general sense
@egreg I guess this is another instance where I'm not conceiving the full range of uses :)
New (potential?) bug posted to the LaTeX3 mirror on github: github.com/latex3/svn-mirror/issues/215
 
2:47 PM
@SeanAllred That was my ideal when writing the meta thread, maybe I could not properly express myself. :) I think there's no need to rush on "moderating" things since we are a small community comparing to StackOverflow, for example. I remember one of the first Answer the Unanswered sessions, they were huge; those were the best time to run the "review system", with everybody attending the session acting as a moderating unit. :)
 
No seriously – that's an excellent way to work the system
@PauloCereda That's beautiful
 
@SeanAllred It is. :) IMHO the new review system broke our nice workflow.
 
I can see why StackOverflow couldn't do it, but it would work for us (keeping in mind that we've grown considerably these last few years)
 
@SeanAllred Here's a \sean_tl_set_smuggle:Nn function:
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{expl3}

\ExplSyntaxOn
\cs_new_protected:Npn \sean_tl_set_smuggle:Nn #1 #2 \group_end:
 {
  \tl_set:Nn \l_tmpa_tl { #2 }
  \exp_args:NNNV \group_end: \tl_set:Nn #1 \l_tmpa_tl
 }
\cs_generate_variant:Nn \sean_tl_set_smuggle:Nn { NV }

\cs_new_protected:Npn \termmenu_prompt:NN #1#2
 {
  \__termmenu_write_out:N #1
  \group_begin:
  \ior_get_str:NN \c_term_ior \choice
  \sean_tl_set_smuggle:NV #2 \choice
  \group_end:
 }
\cs_new_protected:Npn \__termmenu_write_out:N #1 {} % whatever
 
@egreg Can anyone say 'overkill'? :)
 
2:49 PM
@SeanAllred Yes. :)
 
@SeanAllred Shenaningans, I call it!
<3
 
@SeanAllred -- you're correct -- it was a pretty slim issue. all i can suggest is that you consider submitting an article.
and that means everybody.
 
@barbarabeeton I'm working on it :) Haven't had much time for original research since I started it before my training went nuts, but I am working on an article about TeX's use and potential in industry.
 
3:06 PM
@PaulGessler -- re acceptability for tex live, yes, to the best of my understanding the debian rules rule. (not required for ctan though.) the reason is that debian has the most restrictive rules among linux distributors. since many (potential and actual) tex users are working on a debian system, there is a recognized benefit for them to have tex live packaged as part of their debian distribution.
@SeanAllred -- good topic. looking forward to receiving your submission. (the next issue will be devoted to the proceedings of tug 2015. unless the speakers at the meeting are truant in delivering written versions, material not emerging from the meeting will be held for the following issue.)
 
@barbarabeeton As it should be :) I'm so sad I can't go :(
 
@PauloCereda -- since you're supposed to receive a paper copy of tugboat, you should also have access to the electronic version. if you don't remember the password assigned to you, check with the tug office, and robin will remind you. that way, you won't have to wait. (and the arara logo will be beautifully green; in print, it's just black and white.)
 
@barbarabeeton Thanks, Barbara. :) I actually got the electronic version, but I love getting the paper one, it's so awesome. :)
Every day I go, "Please mr. postman, look and see, if there's the TUGboat issue, the TUGboat issue for me!"
4
It's so funny, people always give me the strange look for getting international mail. :P
 
3:28 PM
regarding @PauloCereda's "rant" (meta.tex.stackexchange.com/q/6170), a couple of days ago, i gave a simple answer to a question i knew had been asked before, then looked for, and found, a relevant question with a truly awesome answer that contained an excellently written explanation. i then voted to close the question i'd just answered. is this an appropriate way to proceed? (cont)
(cont) this does limit the likelihood of votes on a newbie's question, which could be detrimental to that person's ability to participate. and i'd rather be welcoming, while providing what i think is the best information i can muster.
 
@barbarabeeton I have thought about something quite similar earlier this day: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/21796614#21796614
@PauloCereda btw, did you read my answer to the meta Q of @wipet?
 
@Johannes_B -- yes, i read that; thanks for the reminder. it's one of the reasons i decided to ask my question.
 
@SeanAllred My answer is the official position on this :-)
 
3:46 PM
@JosephWright Just feels wrong :) If you can cite any mail or something that corroborates its official status, I'd be happy to give you the tick. I'd rather have the official approach at the top. I just feel bad since the solution @yo' gives is so clever :(
By the way, I'm using l3color.dtx as a guide for writing termmenu.dtx, but I'm still a little shakey on DocTeX in general. What's the purpose of <*initex>?
 
@SeanAllred Yes, it seems that nobody's interested in centering listings.
 
@egreg I have to say it would've come in handy for my thesis. I abused the listings environment to display a directory tree.
 
There seem to be a few different points of view.

-- Making a newcomer feel welcome. Will he feel welcome, if the question is closed as a duplicate, but not knowing the system? *They closed my question, what the heck?*

-- A closed answer won't attract as many upvotes, which we use to encourage new users to participate

-- Pointing to the best solution. We have many very very good answers here on site, one of the most upvoted answers is Franks article on float placement. Reading this as a LaTeX beginner, it might be a bit over your head. Reading it alone takes time, understanding even mo
 
@Johannes_B Perhaps the 'quick and immediate' solution, or a link to it, should be added to Frank's answer (in this case).
I'd personally prefer the link approach since it maintains the quality of Frank's answer.
 
@SeanAllred It might still earn me my 1000th silver badge. ;-)
 
3:54 PM
@egreg Which would be?
 
@Johannes_B Oh I missed, hold on. :)
 
@SeanAllred Performs a global assignment :-(
 
@JosephWright To a temporary variable – is this otherwise grossly inefficient?
 
@Johannes: Oh my! I share your thoughts.
 
@PauloCereda :-)
 
3:56 PM
@SeanAllred Try nesting such things
 
@SeanAllred Which one would that be?
151
Q: Keeping tables/figures close to where they are mentioned

artimessIs there any package or a method to force LaTeX to keep floating environments like table and figure closer to where they are declared?

 
@SeanAllred It's not required and leaves a value sitting around that is not needed: really don't like it. Also, what about the case where you need to escape precisely one group
 
@JosephWright of course, and I have thought about that, but… well, I suppose you're right. What then are \g_tmpa_tl/seq/… for?
@JosephWright That's a good point.
 
@barbarabeeton: I have a huge songbook project going on and hopefully in a month or so we will have it printed. Would it be a nice story for a TUGboat article?
 
@SeanAllred Scratch work but should never be used in a a package: really just for 'local testing'
 
3:59 PM
@JosephWright I didn't know that! I suppose I must have missed it somewhere in the documentation :)
(edits termmenu.dtx)
 
@PauloCereda -- sounds interesting. do consider it, please.
 
@Johannes_B Looks good to me :) In all honestly, that's what most people want. Short, simple, and to the point. The links to various packages are just icing on the cake.
 
@barbarabeeton Sure! But it might be a long article, is that a problem?
 
@Johannes_B So just as Stefan's answer links to Frank's at the bottom, Frank's should link to Stefan's at the top.
@PauloCereda How much story can there be to a songbook? XD
 
@PauloCereda -- won't know until we see it. you might send an outline before embarking on something more elaborate. then we could comment and negotiate if necessary.
 
4:05 PM
@SeanAllred How I broke LaTeX on requiring more than 16 writes at the same time. <3
2
@barbarabeeton Sure. :)
 
@SeanAllred Agreed. The thing is, i don't really agree with the order in which Stefans answer is laid down. I would mention float last. and the placeins approach as the very first. For me, this seems more reasonable than making the algorithm sloppy or kick it off completely.
 
@barbarabeeton: this is the front cover:
Apr 18 at 23:27, by Paulo Cereda
user image
 
@SeanAllred LOLOLOL
@SeanAllred chromatic scale kittens FTW.
 
@PauloCereda -- simple and dignified. i like it. but, may i ask, what's that space between the two accented letters in "celebro\c c\~oes"?
 
4:11 PM
@barbarabeeton Oh my, it's a kerning issue!
 
@PauloCereda -- are you sure it's not an accidental space? (since you haven't printed the book yet, you still have a chance to fix it!)
 
@PauloCereda clearly you didn't expect the kerning inquisition... ;-) <3
 
@PaulGessler -- oh, i think @PauloCereda knows me well enough by now to know he can't get away with such things. (but it's meant kindly.)
 
@barbarabeeton I wish it were an accidental space, but it's not! Thankfully the book is not printed, and I have you. <3
@PaulGessler <3
 
@barbarabeeton oh, I know. :-) I didn't notice it either until you pointed it out (distracted by a new language I understand none of.)
 
4:19 PM
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\usepackage{tgadventor}

\begin{document}

\sffamily\bfseries\Huge celebrações

\end{document}
I get the small space here as well.
 
Any advice on spacing here? Not my field of expertise.
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{mathtools}
\begin{document}
$a = \Re{(a + b\mathrm i)} $ und $b = \Im{(a + b\mathrm i)}$\par
\renewcommand{\Re}{\mathrm{Re}} \renewcommand{\Im}{\mathrm{Im}}
$a = \Re{(a + b\mathrm i)} $ und $b = \Im{(a + b\mathrm i)}$
\end{document}
 
@PauloCereda -- i don't think there should be any kerning; i think it's a basic width error. try outputting a (longer) string of \c c\c c and separately \~o\~o to see which one is the problem. then try \c co and c\~o -- that ought to narrow it down. does the same thing happen in other sizes?
 
@barbarabeeton It happens in all sizes, but only with TeX Gyre Adventor. :(
 
@Johannes_B -- i'm not sure what your question is. ??? spacing on either one looks okay to me, but using the fraktur vs. the latin-letter expression is either subjective or governed by subject area ("Re" can be a shorthand for "reynolds number", i have been informed, and thus a potential conflict).
 
4:29 PM
@PauloCereda Sounds like a bad font :(
 
@PauloCereda -- i'd report a bug to the tex gyre guys.
 
@SeanAllred :(
@barbarabeeton Thanks. :)
 
@barbarabeeton I have seen the variant without any markup, meaning $Re$ and wanted to suggest a better solution. But you are completely right, Re can also mean Reynolds number. :-)
 
@Johannes_B -- gotta say, the kerning isn't perfect here, but not any actual "spaces". (the "co", accents aside, should have the same inter-letter spacing as "oe". the "r" is also a little tighter than ideal. nitpick.)
 
@barbarabeeton: do you know where should I report? I could not find any info in the project page neither in the "documentation". :(
 
4:32 PM
@barbarabeeton This is what i get using @Paulo's example.
 
@Johannes_B -- so, same font? oops! what version have you got, and @PauloCereda, what version have you got? (dates, if no version easily accessible.)
 
@barbarabeeton, @Johannes_B: interesting: TeX Gyre Adventor seems to be a replacement for URW Gothic. I tried the very same example with the later and got the very same output!
cat-version: 2.004
 
@PauloCereda -- check the readme file for tex-gyre-adventor (use ctan search); email contact is given for jacko (bogus\l{}aw jackowski). you can say i sent you. i believe jacko will be at the tug meeting, so i can ask him about questions like this when i see him.
 
@PauloCereda still looks a hair too wide IMO
 
4:40 PM
@barbarabeeton: quite interesting, look at this one from DejaVu Sans. :(
@SeanAllred Indeed, it was a test. :)
 
@PauloCereda Ah, I thought you were \kerning :)
 
@SeanAllred Ever'day I'm kerning!
 
@PauloCereda -- agree with @SeanAllred that kerning is still uneven, but it's certainly better.
 
@barbarabeeton Oh no, I haven't kerned! :)
It's another font. :)
 
@PauloCereda -- i can tell it's another font -- the shapes of the terminals are different. but that doesn't mean the kerning is automatically perfect. just not the same. and you haven't done anything to affect the kerning -- that should be built in by the font designer. who should have done a better job.
 
4:43 PM
@barbarabeeton oh I see! Let me try kerning it.
 
@PauloCereda -- did you happen to read the title page quote in the latest tugboat?
@PauloCereda -- now that looks quite nice!
 
@barbarabeeton I did, very appropriate for the moment. :)
@barbarabeeton Thanks! I did Cantos para missas\\ e c\kern-.5pt elebraç\kern-.5pt ões
@barbara: what would be of my documents without you? <3
 
@PauloCereda Try this one out for a surprise
\documentclass[border=10pt]{standalone}
%\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
%\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
%\usepackage{tgadventor}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\setmainfont{TeX Gyre Adventor}
\begin{document}

\sffamily\bfseries\Huge celebrações

\end{document}
 
@PauloCereda -- you might want to consider representing that kern in em units; that would make it applicable to more (all?) sizes. and i'm surprised that the same amount worked in both places -- the space between the two accented letters was much wider than the space after the first "c" in the original.
 
@Johannes_B WITCHCRAFT!
@barbarabeeton Oh thank you, I didn't know that. :)
@barbarabeeton: fixed, thanks again. :)
@Johannes: now I'm scared. Really scared. What just happened?!
 
4:54 PM
@barbarabeeton @PauloCereda \ProvidesFile{t1qag.fd}[2009/09/25 v1.2 font definition file for T1/qag]
@PauloCereda To be honest, nfi
 
@Johannes_B LOL <3
I'm afraid to ask for @David's help, he will reply, "you are not using one of my packages, that's why it's failing". :)
 
Hi all, super tiny question: Does any of you know of the existence of something like \coloneqq, but with the colon on the right, instead of left of the equal sign?
 
@PauloCereda Well, seems to be a good idea to setsansfont{TeX Gyre Adventor} :-D
 
@PauloCereda or more likely vim adding unwanted space, but I'm offline at my Mum's today
 
Nasty Saturday.
 
5:00 PM
@DavidCarlisle Have a nice day. :)
 
Detexify didn't give me any results :\
 
@Johannes_B Should I move the project to XeTeX? I really can. :)
 
@PauloCereda Ask @David if it is safe :-)
 
OK, I feel like I asked a really stupid question this morning Is there a straight-forward way to measure angles in tkz-euclide?. Is there a better way to handle such questions as these? I mean, basically, I knew there had to be an answer, but my search of the manual was coming up with nada. Would it have been better had I posted my question here in chat?
 
@Danu I wonder if \reflectbox could be used here
It would need some twiddling to space appropriately in math mode though
 
5:14 PM
@barbarabeeton: do you think I should poke Jacko? Apparently, the XeTeX version looks quite different.
 
@SeanAllred Oh, cool! Never heard of that before
 
@PauloCereda Not that different. The surprise was LM Sans.
 
@Johannes_B Oh that's true! That's why the font was different, but I knew I saw it before!
 
25 mins ago, by Johannes_B
@PauloCereda Well, seems to be a good idea to setsansfont{TeX Gyre Adventor} :-D
 
@SeanAllred It gives me errors :\
 
5:26 PM
@Johannes_B :)
 
@Danu -- it's in unicode as U+2255, so it should be in the stix/xits fonts.
 
@Danu Where can I find coloneqq? it's not in amssymb
 
@SeanAllred mathtools
 
@Danu If I understand correctly, reflectbox puts TeX back into horizontal mode. You've got to put it back into math mode to use coloneqq
 
Ah, so simply \reflectbox{$\coloneqq$}?
 
5:35 PM
@Danu vvv of course, spacing is wrong
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{mathtools}
\usepackage{graphicx}
\newcommand\eqqcolon{\reflectbox{$\coloneqq$}}
\begin{document}
$S \eqqcolon 1$
\end{document}
 
Works! Thanks a bunch
 
There's something called mathbin or binop that'll teach TeX to treat it like a binary operator
 
@PauloCereda -- if you find a problem in any of the tex gyre fonts, i suggest letting jacko know. it's possible that some of those fonts may be designed for use only as system fonts, hence only with xetex or luatex; that should be documented, and i'm not sure what the implication is for pdftex if you try to use one of them. in any event, do provide good examples, input and output, as well as the version and date for the files you're using/reporting.
 
not certain they're appropriate to use here, but it's a place to start looking
 
@barbarabeeton Got it, thanks. :)
 
5:39 PM
@SeanAllred Turns out I'm stupid: \eqqcolon already exist. ::facepalm::
Sorry for wasting your time. But I appreciate knowing about \reflectbox :)
 
Might be more of a MathJax question, but I figure I'd ask it here.

A^{*} = \left(\begin{array}{c|c}
& 0 \\
A & 1\\
& 0\\
& 0
\end{array}\right)\text{.}

The output can be found in http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/1294289/find-a-matrix-whose-column-space-contains-the-column-space-of-the-given-matrix .

Is there any way I can turn center the "A" in the first column?
 
@Danu -- i have a serious problem with the name \coloneqq. i see that \coloneq is defined in mathtools with a single line to the right. that's not logical. in unicode, at U+2239, there is a symbol that has been assigned the name \dashcolon for the stix project; \eqcolon is the two-line equivalent (U+2255), and \coloneq is the reverse. i shall take this up with will robertson, one of the maintainers of mathtools. (there is no \colondash, but i'll ask about that too.)
 
By centering, I mean vertical centering, to clarify
 
@barbarabeeton I think you're right that \coloneqq with double q makes little sense.
 
5:55 PM
@Danu XD
@Danu not at all :)
 
yo'
6:42 PM
@JosephWright Feel free to purge the discussion we've just had. I gotta go catch some food. Btw, current location: Liège, Belgium.
 
@yo' If you are needing multiple things outside of a group you've little option but to x-type expand inside the group into a temporary var then insert that after the group. I guess we could wrap that up in a generic function, but again I suspect it's hard to make general without a loss of clarity.
 
@JosephWright Do you know where I can find the complete typesetting of the expl3 sources? I'm looking for conventions in documenting variants in the implementation section.
 
@SeanAllred texdoc source3?
 
yo'
@JosephWright well, I don't cosider the usage of \exp_args with \group_end: being one of them as a "clarity". I know that the solution with temp var is slower, but IMHO clearer.
 
@SeanAllred Or of course the sources themselves (which is oddly enough what I tend to read)
 
6:47 PM
@JosephWright I've been reading through l3tl.dtx as a reference, too :) And thanks! source3 is exactly what I was looking for :)
 
@yo' Don't see it's clearer: \tl_set:Nx \tempvar { \tl_set:Nn { \exp_not:V \vartosmuggle } } \exp_after:wN \group_end: \tempvar
 
yo'
\tl_gnew:N \g_termmenu_temp_tl
\cs_new_protected:Nn \termmenu_prompt:NN
 {
  \__termmenu_write_out:N #1
  \group_begin:
  \ior_get_str:NN \c_term_ior \choice
  \tl_gset_eq:NN \g_termmenu_temp_tl \choice
  \group_end:
  \tl_set_eq:NN #2 \g_termmenu_temp_tl
 }
 
@yo' No!
 
yo'
^^ appear clear to me; each instruction is a single line
 
@yo' You are setting something globally there: bad
 
yo'
6:49 PM
@JosephWright something I control?
 
@JosephWright Oh good, it isn't just me, then :) Take a look at the margin of the implementation for, say, \tl_new:c. It's misaligned.
 
@yo' The aim has to be to escape exactly one group
@yo' Doesn't matter
 
Driving me a little nuts.
 
@yo' Global settings should apply only to truly global material
@SeanAllred Quite possibly
@SeanAllred Complain at Will
 
@yo' I tend to agree with you on this point.
 
yo'
6:50 PM
well, this seems like a point of view. Hiding \group_end: inside \exp_args: doesn't look good to me either, it's basically coming back to "counting \expandafters", which is one of the reasons why I switched to L3: to avoid this.
 
@JosephWright Will do. (Or perhaps, "Will, do".)
 
yo'
anyway, I really go now.
 
@yo' It's not hiding: it's there on a line with the correct indentation, etc.
@yo' You can't avoid needing to know the number of expansions required to get something out of a group
 
yo'
@JosephWright but "begin group" is ended by "something weird and end group"
 
@yo' Still has a properly indented line with an explicit \group_end:
@yo' I will think (again) about a cleaner solution
 
yo'
6:52 PM
@JosephWright ok, I won't, surely not now.
bye
 
Flights booked for TUG 2015! :-D
 
@JosephWright By the way, you may wish to add whatever email is used for the git mirror of latex3 on github to your github profile. It will link that email to your profile in its presentation of commits.
 
@PaulGessler :-)
 
That is, if the email is completely yours :)
 
@SeanAllred Not sure it will: SVN doesn't use e-mail addresses
 
6:57 PM
@JosephWright I think there has to be some email that git uses for it – I wasn't aware that this was optional. *takes a look at git log*
 
@JosephWright I get to set foot on English soil (briefly) for the first time in my life, too: I have a plane change at Heathrow on the return flight.
 
@JosephWright Oh, goodness… :) joseph@de43f980-851b-0410-b2f7-c40aca1f87e0
Looks like Frank has something similar: mittelba@de43f980-851b-0410-b2f7-c40aca1f87e0
 
7:21 PM
@SeanAllred Perhaps fixable at Will's end?
 
@JosephWright Perhaps, but it will require rewriting the entire git history. This means that all forks, etc., will be nullified (not that they were useful anyway with the current state of things).
 
@SeanAllred Any forks are invalid in any case so it's not a problem :-)
 
All code-attached GitHub comments (e.g. github.com/vermiculus/sx.el/pull/6#discussion-diff-19713622) will also be removed
@JosephWright Do you have an email for Will or should I just mail LaTeX-L?
Both of my issues seem to be directly related to him :)
 
@SeanAllred I do have a mail for him :-) See e.g. fontspec manual
@SeanAllred Actually, texdoc ifplatform is a better one to pick :-)
 
@JosephWright Sweet, thanks :)
 
7:33 PM
@SeanAllred Possibly less good
 
@JosephWright Yeah :( They will still exist in the git history, they will just be inaccessible (until someone prunes it)
 
@SeanAllred I want your project renamed from Stack Exchange for Emacs to Stack Emacs Exchange because, well, acronyms. /if you know what I mean /wink /nudge /nudge /say no more
<3
 
@SeanAllred I've added the 'email address' GitHub thinks I have :-) I guess there is a way to do this 'properly'
 
7:49 PM
@JosephWright Are you sure you were able to get it to go through? I thought you had to confirm the email
 
@SeanAllred Normally yes but GitHub just says something like 'too generic to check' :-)
 
@PauloCereda vvv
 
@SeanAllred don't say such thing. <3
@SeanAllred: Rename sx.el to sex.el. :P
 
@PauloCereda I have no idea why swapping emacs/OH
@PauloCereda Yes this was actually considered XD
@PauloCereda But we're better than that.
Lower maintenance.
@JosephWright It doesn't seem to be having an effect, but I guess we can give it time. github.com/latex3/svn-mirror
 
@SeanAllred Depends: I see it if I follow the commit history backward, but not on the first page only older ones :-)
 
7:53 PM
@JosephWright Ah! The information must be cached :)
 
@SeanAllred I suspect so: try 'contributors'
@SeanAllred Should ask Will/Bruno/David/Frank to add their 'emails' (Morten I think doesn't have a GitHub account, other team members I suspect don't show in the SVN)
 
@JosephWright Huh?
@JosephWright Will already knows as soon as he checks his email, but I think a team email is in order :)
 
@SeanAllred Will, Bruno, David and Frank all have GitHub accounts so could do the same thing I've just done to match their commits to their GitHub accounts
 
@JosephWright :)
 
@SeanAllred Morten (Hoegholm) was very active on the team around the time I started, left the team but has recently rejoined
@SeanAllred A lot of the code goes back to before the SVN so the log gets a bit odd
 
7:55 PM
@JosephWright Good things!
 
@SeanAllred ooh <3
 
@JosephWright Oooh, now I'll have to try to find the old stuff :)
 
@SeanAllred svn log -r <you-name-it>
 
@PauloCereda Sadly, the old chatroom is gone, but it was discussed on gitter :)
@JosephWright I actually do not have an svn copy of the repo :(
Frankly don't know how to clone the thing
 
@SeanAllred Probably not: I think I know exactly the people who do
 
7:57 PM
@JosephWright XD
With the github mirror, there's no real reason for me to unless I'm committing :)
 
@SeanAllred svn co http://latex-project.org/svnroot/experimental/trunk/
(As you can't checkin, http is fine)
 
@JosephWright So much text! Flying by! Woo!!
R5613?
 
palladium:trunk joseph$ svn log -r HEAD
------------------------------------------------------------------------
r5613 | joseph | 2015-05-21 12:59:04 +0100 (Thu, 21 May 2015) | 2 lines

Simplifly logic in previous check-in

------------------------------------------------------------------------
@SeanAllred ^^^
 
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