7:49 AM
Time to go to SP, you guys behave. :) Have a great day, friends!

8:35 AM
@PauloCereda I just caught a train with a delay of just 75 minutes. :)
3

I've been trying to find out how to change application executables (I don't know how to call them) so when you do vim file in the console it actually runs nano file. I don't care if vim is installed or not on the operating system. How can I achieve this?

9:18 AM
@JosephWright Using internals is not always a good idea. ;-)

1 hour later…
10:33 AM
@egreg When I wrote that post there wasn't a public interface available (is there now?)

\tracingonline1

\ifx\directlua\undefined\else
\directlua{
% manual sec 4.2.2, simplified
callback.register('define_font',function(name,size) local f=font.read_tfm(name,size) return f end)
}
\fi

\font\x=cmr12

\setbox0\hbox{\x va}
\showbox0

abc \box0

\bye
could someone without a totally hacked version of luatex compare the above with pdftex and luatex???
@JosephWright with pdftex or luatex without the callback I get a kern \kern-0.65277 but with the callback I get \kern-0.32639

@DavidCarlisle Give me a mo: I'll take a look
@DavidCarlisle See the same as you with stock TL'15

10:52 AM
@JosephWright so what was happening was that in most cases the test were using preloaded fonts so the lua code was doing the right thing and returning the same name as pdftex, but for new fonts the lua interface "default font loader" isn't doing the same things as the actual default font loader. Another email to luatex list...

11:42 AM
@DavidCarlisle Odd

@JosephWright yes although no-longer surprising

@DavidCarlisle Certainly
@DavidCarlisle Will be getting laptop back later on: plan to get everything this evening :-)
New bigger HD, not that I need the space (next time I get a laptop I'm going for a SSD)
@DavidCarlisle Nothing from HO yet: we may need to go with a plan B

@JosephWright yes I got SSD on this one although I wish I'd fought for a larger one, prices were coming down but I went from 500Mb real disk to 250GB SSD so it's faster (a lot faster when generating thousands of small files in a single run, which I do quite regularly) but if I keep cloning github I'll run out of space:-)
@JosephWright like the plan in luatex85.sty that defined ver@zzzz for lots of common packages :( ?

@DavidCarlisle I'm thinking of a 256Gb: my disk usage is below that at present including six TL versions, a full Windows VM and a coy of all of my CDs
@DavidCarlisle I don't actually have a plan B yet ;-)
@DavidCarlisle We may be forced to to that, yes
@DavidCarlisle Perhaps we could do something on pdftex.def

@JosephWright where is he, do you know, we could send Frank to camp outside his door
@JosephWright I could ask for it back, for example.

11:53 AM
@DavidCarlisle Yes, that was my plan B in that area

@JosephWright apparently I have 29Gb free on this disk

@DavidCarlisle About 4 hours drive for Frank I think

@JosephWright on his bike?

@DavidCarlisle :-)
Hmm, Germany so perhaps less than 4 hours

@JosephWright even in Germany, you need a licence:-)

11:55 AM
@DavidCarlisle This is true
@DavidCarlisle You know something I don't?

@JosephWright oh frank doesn't drive

@DavidCarlisle OK, you did know something I didn't know :-)

@UlrikeFischer yes, which is why in a few hundred files in the latex test suite, just one hits the different kerns, and there the log is totally different (as you get overfull box messages) so spotting that the problem was kerns and only in non-preloaded fonts, took a while:-)

Have people seen the lasted c.t.t. post from JF?

@JosephWright I suppose I'd better look...

12:00 PM
@DavidCarlisle Background is particularly good
Background
==========
1. Don Knuth finished version 1.0 of TeX in November 1983.
2. At about the same time the TeX Users Group (TUG) was established.
3. TeX became widely used for technical typesetting, by both authors and publishers.

@JosephWright typical post, just a list of pointless statements:-(

@DavidCarlisle You might very well think that. I couldn't possibly comment. ;-)

12:29 PM
Hullo all
Another simple TikZ question: I've got some vertices of a regular n-gon. Now I would like to draw lines between those vertices. My code so far is
\begin{tikzpicture}
\foreach \a in {180,210,...,450} { %\a is the angle variable
\draw[fill] (\a:2cm) circle (1pt); % 2cm is the radius; 1pt is the radius of the small bullet
}
\end{tikzpicture}
(copied from here)
That same page has some more elaborate answer that would probably enable me to do what I want but it uses "asymptote"
I'd like to avoid "heavy machinery" if possible.
For instance, if I were able to label each vertex and simply put \draw (vertex k) -- (vertex k+1) in my forall loop, I'd be very happy
This should probably be possible, but I don't know how to find out how.

@JosephWright None of my business. :P I just told where the problem is. :)

Any pointers as to where to find something like this would also be very welcome

@Danu (180:2cm) is just another coordinate, and I guess you know how to draw a line from one coordinate to the other. \draw (180:2cm) -- (0:2cm);
@Danu That said, did you try my answer to that question? (Which draws the polygon.)

@TorbjørnT. The subtlety is that I only want 8 out of 12 vertices (and faces) of the 12-gon.
Perhaps there is a better way to do that, though?
@TorbjørnT. I'm trying something like \draw (\a:2cm) -- (\a - 30:2cm) now, but it doesn't seem to work.

\documentclass[border=2mm]{standalone}
\usepackage{tikz}
\usetikzlibrary{shapes.geometric}
\begin{document}

\begin{tikzpicture}
% create the node
\node[draw=none,minimum size=2cm,regular polygon,regular polygon sides=12] (a) {};

% draw a black dot in each vertex
\foreach \x in {1,2,...,8}
\foreach [evaluate=\x as \y using int(\x+1)] \x in {1,2,...,7}
\draw (a.corner \x) -- (a.corner \y);

\end{tikzpicture}
\end{document}

12:43 PM
Oh, jk, it is working!
@TorbjørnT. Thanks for your reply. Everything is working as wanted now, though :)

@Danu See above for a quick modification of my code. (I misspoke above, of course it doesn't draw the sides, due to draw=none.)

Now, I'm trying to put arrows on my lines, but they're not appearing :(
\begin{tikzpicture}
\draw[fill] (180:2cm) circle (1pt);
\foreach \a in {210,240,...,480} { %\a is the angle variable
\draw[fill] (\a:2cm) circle (1pt); % 2cm is the radius; 1pt is the radius of the small bullet
\draw[decoration={markings,
mark=at position 0.5 with {\arrow{>}}}] (\a:2cm) -- (\a - 30 :2cm);
};
\foreach \a in {125,130,...,180} {
\draw[fill] (\a:2cm) circle (0.5pt);
}
\end{tikzpicture}
The markings are not appearing :\
I guess my mistake must be in this part:
\draw[decoration={markings,
mark=at position 0.5 with {\arrow{>}}}] (\a:2cm) -- (\a - 30 :2cm);
It's not giving me any errors, though... Just no arrows :\

@Danu You have only set up the decoration, not applied it. Use \draw[decoration={markings, mark=at position 0.5 with {\arrow{>}}},postaction={decorate}] ...

@TorbjørnT. Oh, damn that was stupid!
Thanks a lot :)

1:21 PM
@DavidCarlisle I found the reason why only va is affected and posted it on the luatex list.

1:32 PM
@DavidCarlisle Reading all of UnicodeData.txt in XeTeX/LuaTeX seems to take about three seconds: I'm wondering if this might actually be the best plan (once my laptop is mended I can time properly)

@UlrikeFischer yes thanks I had been wondering if I should dig out tftopl and look for patterns, I'm sure you are right. So another luatex bug found by the latex test suite then:-)

1:48 PM
@DavidCarlisle But I have been wondering why va has a different kern to wa. And what the rules for grouping of lig-info is. It looks actually quite logical that a second setting overwrites the first.

@UlrikeFischer texdoc tftopl sort of documents it, I think the label command starts a new program anyway so you shouldn't need an explicit stop (but whatever the manual says a tfm reader that can't read the cm tfm files the same way TeX does has got problems:-)

@DavidCarlisle Sorry
@DavidCarlisle sourceforge.net/p/xetex/code/ci/master/tree/source/texk/web2c/… has a comment at the top that makes sense

@DavidCarlisle label doesn't start a complete new programm, in the section I copied k, v, and w all use the kern values. But looking at the other section I think that the pdftex handling is as intended. A label should use the first kern value for a char it encounters and ignore following settings.

@UlrikeFischer a ligature lookup always goes "forwards" so that's a list for v (just specifying the following letter in each case, then there is the list for w th efact that both lists have an a shouldn't make any difference

@DavidCarlisle \XeTeXmathcode = (7 1 #) for BMP letters, (0 1 #) for SMP

2:03 PM
@JosephWright do you mean letters or all of the BMP?

@DavidCarlisle This applies to all letters
@DavidCarlisle Anything of class L<x> in Unicode
@DavidCarlisle Was checking my script, so back to the Perl original
@DavidCarlisle I'm leaning toward telling Karl we should just parse the original data directly, so am checking the logic. I need to comment my hacked-up loader.

@JosephWright I suppose so, making it var sort of implies that you think that most slots have a font that has the full range which may not be as true as it was in classic tex, but then making them all 0 implies you only have one font at all, so not clearly better
@JosephWright also logically why split on the BMP/SMP range? If they add a new alphabetic script then it's likely to go in a higher plane just for space reasons.
@JosephWright better to make all things of category Lx var unless they have mathclass A (from the MathClass.txt file currently in TR25 but planned to be added to UCD at some point)

@DavidCarlisle Ah

@DavidCarlisle Yes I'd found that :-)
@DavidCarlisle Short file, easy to parse
@DavidCarlisle Will add to my 'to do' list for this

2:11 PM
or unicode.xml has already merged it with unicodedata.txt:-) <character id="U1D400" dec="119808" mode="math" type="alphabetic">
<unicodedata category="Lu" combclass="0" bidi="L" decomp="&lt;font&gt; 0041" mirror="N" mathclass="A"/>

@DavidCarlisle Good job someone is interested in this, hey ;-)
@DavidCarlisle XML files are not definitive (plus I'm not keen on trying to parse them)

@JosephWright that one is definitive for HTML and MathML ('cause I say so:-)

@DavidCarlisle Well OK but there is a health warning on the Unicode website about the XML versions
@DavidCarlisle I want to see if I can pick up the two special cases for \sffcode based on their Unicode class: I think I can :-) Then I'll look at the maths stuff!

@JosephWright not their XML, mine (which is older and better!): github.com/w3c/xml-entities

@DavidCarlisle I'm thinking a series of loaders, one for each 'area' with the intention they can be loaded v. early by any L3 format (before the renaming) so that everything can be shared with plain/2e: sensible?
@DavidCarlisle Ah
@DavidCarlisle You want to parse the XML in TeX for me? ;-)

2:16 PM
@JosephWright yes but 2007 was a while ago, the math alphabets were probably the on;y relevant characters in plane 1 at that point, but now they are adding new human language scripts in whatever plane has space.

@DavidCarlisle I hope Chris, Karl, ... appreciate the effort going in here :-)

@JosephWright I have a parser to hand...

@DavidCarlisle :-)

@JosephWright yes

@DavidCarlisle Yes, makes sense. The Perl script has not had a lot of TLC in recent years.
@DavidCarlisle Everything automated and documented, of course

2:19 PM
Men with diggers arrived in village (my spies tell me....)

@DavidCarlisle Just spotted that if not writing everything back to disk I don't need to convert numbers to hex: makes the code a lot faster!

@JosephWright would it be too bad to suggest \@empty as the Unicodedata.txt version comand?

@DavidCarlisle ?
@DavidCarlisle You mean \expandafter\def\csname ver@Unicodedata.txt\endcsname{}?

2:36 PM
@JosephWright much more sensible than my suggestion!

@DavidCarlisle Ah, now seen @ArthurReutenauer's mail

@JosephWright oh I guessed you'd seen it between your above two comments, seems you got the context without seeing it:-)

3:19 PM
@JosephWright The Gratzer book is now scheduled for Jan 2016.
The PGF manual is getting bigger and bigger.

4:07 PM
@UlrikeFischer looks like you read it right, thanks:-) I'll have to to read it again more slowly one evening:-) so suppose that's two more passes in the test suite once that gets to texlive svn and I rebuild everything....

@DavidCarlisle Hm. Not quite sure if I got the meaning. If I did understand Hans correctly, you were right to suspect a luatex font loader bug (and I while I wasn't sure at the start I do agree now too). But the larger negative kerning of the va still remains curious.

@UlrikeFischer I misread the tftopl output, so you were correct that the issue was two kerns being specified with tex using the first and lua using the second. The choice of kerns in the cm font was specified on stone tablets and not for mortals to query, even if they are illogical they could only be fixed in lm or some such cm is not going to change its metrics ever.

@DavidCarlisle

@UlrikeFischer exactly!

4:25 PM
@DavidCarlisle github.com/latex3/unicode-data: thoughts welcome!
@DavidCarlisle Probably I should add a version to the file itself ...

possibly, or in my version I always rename the file when i copy it makes it easy to diff versions locally \$ ls UnicodeData-*txt
UnicodeData-5.1.0d10.txt UnicodeData-6.1.0d1.txt UnicodeData-8.0.0.txt
UnicodeData-5.2.0.txt UnicodeData-6.2.0.txt UnicodeData-8.0.0d7.txt
UnicodeData-6.0.0.txt UnicodeData-6.3.0.txt UnicodeData-p.txt
UnicodeData-6.1.0.txt UnicodeData-7.0.0.txt

@UlrikeFischer The one from Mel Brooks' movie is missing (where Moses drops one of the tables, so reducing the commandments from 15 to 10).

@JosephWright "aht" <<. Not bad, only 146 lines. Possibly you should do an ifeof test on stream 0 before opening it, just in case
@JosephWright and perhaps \closein although not sure that makes any difference after you have read to eof.

5:08 PM
Hi guys. Do you know why the check is failing at line 34 ?https://gist.github.com/wget/21257c85567e31a9b990#file-gistfile1-txt-L34
This is quite easy to answer for those used to use xkeyval (not me thus) :-)

@wget @ isn't a letter there (but use the questions on site not external links)
@wget error message clearly will show that it only read as far as \key not \key@ifundefined

5:26 PM
Indeed. Thanks @DavidCarlisle.

@wget you are missing a gazillion % from ends of lines, as well:-)

Laptop is back!
@DavidCarlisle Ah, good point
@DavidCarlisle Give me a couple of hours to restore everything: outside the Apple shop at the mo making sure the fix is OK!
@DavidCarlisle It is in the L3 repo, you could change it ;-)
@DavidCarlisle Hmm, yes, could do that