4:06 AM
@JosephWright The daily spammer: tex.stackexchange.com/users/59659/ling

3 hours later…
7:36 AM
@ChristianHupfer Quiet in here! Let's make some noise: TÖRÖÖÖ!

@Johannes_B: Mensch, nicht den Schweigechat stören :D

@ChristianHupfer Psssst!

@Johannes_B: TÖRÖÖÖ... Benjamin Blümchen? ;-)

@ChristianHupfer Of course :-)

@Johannes_B Frau Blücher!

7:47 AM
@Johannes_B: I would like to chat around here this morning, but I have an appointment in two hours and about 90km of "Landstraße" ahead, ... I will be off in a few moments. See you

@ChristianHupfer Drive safely/carefully

@Johannes_B: Thank you, till afternoon/evening

@egreg Had to look up Frau Blücher. Wieher

8:39 AM
@Johannes_B It always comes to my mind when German is spoken. ;-)

@egreg Thanks, for the lol :-D

@egreg Yeap, saw this one.
@egreg I just hope i never meat a Frau Blücher.

@egreg She seems a bit ... crazy

2 hours later…
10:20 AM
@Johannes, @cgnieder: as you guessed, cis didn't like the idea of not having a compatibility mode. :( A possible workaround is to freeze arara forever and release another tool with another name. Thoughts? :) (@egreg's, @Joseph's, @David's thoughts as well)

@PauloCereda If the new version requires syntax changes in existing documents, then a new name is mandatory, unless there is an easy way to process old documents with the new tool.

@egreg I see. Document-wise, no changes; but the rule syntax will be affected.

@PauloCereda That's a different situation, then. There are not hundreds of existing arara rules. Nor so many rule developers.

@egreg That's my main line of thought. But I'm ok with releasing it under another name.

@PauloCereda If one rule developer is annoyed, I wouldn't care. If all contributors are annoyed…

10:28 AM
@egreg I see.

10:44 AM
@PauloCereda I'm with @egreg here. @cis is a very enthusiastic user of arara and has written 20+ new rules (that's what he said) and still has new ideas... so I can understand that this is troubling him. I have a feeling, though, that he is the only user with this problem...

@cgnieder As I mentioned to him, I understand, but the reasons for keeping using YAML are wrong (my fault). I can help him rewrite the whole set, if that's the case.

@PauloCereda I'm sure he'll appreciate that :)

@cgnieder Do tell him, please. :)

@PauloCereda I will

@cgnieder Danke. :)
I'm also ok with changing the name.

11:04 AM
@PauloCereda norwegianblue ?

@cgnieder: files is back, so I won't break anyone's heart. :)
@DavidCarlisle Holy cow, I was thinking of this!

11:22 AM
@PauloCereda “Papageno”?
@PauloCereda It reminds “arara” in German. ;-) You're fond of Germans, aren't you?

@egreg :)
@egreg The next name will be nightingale. :)

@PauloCereda Seven times fonder than before the world cup, I guess.

% arara: foo: {
% arara: --> a: b,
% arara: --> c: d,
% arara: --> e: f
% arara: --> }
@cgnieder: I finally heard you guys! ^^ :)
@egreg Hey! :)
@egreg: of course, @DavidCarlisle will complain of why I'm not using a proper unicode arrow. :)

@PauloCereda ooh, linebreaking!

@cgnieder :)
% My foo directive
% arara: foo: {
% takes a parameter a with value b,
% arara: --> a: b,
% a parameter c with value d,
% arara: --> c: d,
% and a parameter e with value f,
% arara: --> e: f
% arara: --> }
% but it will only be executed
% arara: --> if
% if the .tex file is changed
% arara: --> changed('tex')
@cgnieder: ^^ :)
I'm almost going full retard in here. :P

11:32 AM
@PauloCereda I→never→complain

@DavidCarlisle Well I never. :)

@PauloCereda I repeat myself:
18 hours ago, by cgnieder
@PauloCereda the new power is worth the new syntax :)

@cgnieder I'm telling you, things are going on track now. :) We would never achieve cool things with YAML. :)
@cgnieder: v4: 2258 loc. V6: 1253 loc so far. :)

11:51 AM
@PauloCereda You put more Java juice in it, innit?

@percusse It's gonna be groovy. :P

2 hours later…
1:57 PM
Blücher!

2:11 PM
@egreg /horses neigh

@PauloCereda You forgot voting!

@egreg o.O
OH MY!

@egreg I just saw I answered same as your comment but I deserve the points anyway:-)

@DavidCarlisle Wait.

@egreg oh well i expected a longer answer from you is coming up:-)

2:21 PM
@egreg Fixed. :)

2:33 PM
22 hours ago, by David Carlisle
@Pleasedon'ttouch @egreg's answers are always tedious, it's a fact of nature can't help with that, sorry:-)
@HeikoOberdiek less than 200 to reach 100K! you should steal some ticks from @egreg to get there today.

@egreg :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

2:49 PM
Hello

3:01 PM
@DavidCarlisle I am not in a hurry and I prefer well-earned ticks :-)

@PauloCereda: Is it a plane, is it a bird? No, its arara-repairman :-P

3:16 PM
@PauloCereda: :D You have definitely too much time ;-)

@ChristianHupfer I have a good index, that's all. :)

@PauloCereda: And the index was generated by a bookmark grabber?
!!/eightball Has Paulo a good index?

@PauloCereda Now I understand how a LyX user may feel sometimes

2 hours later…
5:39 PM
import java.nio.charset.Charset
import java.util.concurrent.TimeUnit

config = [
rule_paths : [
"/home/paulo/Documentos",
"/opt/paulo/rules"
],
file_patterns : [
[
extension : "tex",
pattern : "\\s*%\\s+"
],
[
extension : "dtx",
pattern : "\\s*%\\s+"
]
],
directive_charset : Charset.forName("UTF-8"),
maximum_number_of_loops : 10,
halt_on_error : false,
log_name : "araralog",
timeout : 10,
timeout_unit : TimeUnit.SECONDS,
verbose_mode : true,
@cgnieder: ^^ all options. :)

Hi
when I want to write product in latex, in some occasions the initial value and the limit value will not remain in the bottom and top of the product sign.
like this

5:56 PM
@barznjy That's normal and good when in line.

BUT I want it appear like this

@barznjy No, you don't. ;-) See tex.stackexchange.com/questions/192756/…
The example in my answer should tell you why you don't want it.

@egreg yes you are right, when its in line it appear like this. Can we make it always to be appear like the second case

@barznjy if it's in a displayed formula, then you should get limits above and below automatically.
@barznjy Yes, you can do, as explained there. But don't do it. It's typographically wrong.

@egreg I thought it looks better

6:03 PM
@barznjy It looks bad especially in two-column documents.

@egreg in the link that you mentioned, is always do that. however, if I want to apply this only to non-inline equations what shall I do? I mean I want to have a choice.

@barznjy that's the default TeX uses the inline style in inline equations and displaystyle with limits above and below in displayed equations

@barznjy Can you show an example? Is that product in the numerator or denominator of a fraction?

@DavidCarlisle But even when I use \begin{align} and \end{align} it changes the limit of the \prod. however, I can see many ieee papers they write equations that the limits are under and above, I am talking about transactions
\begin{align*}
\begin{cases}
\sum_ {l_{1},l_{k}}^{m_{{\rm I}_{i1}},m_{{\rm I}_{iK}}}= \sum_{l_{1}=0}^{m_{{\rm I}_{i1}}-1} \cdots \sum_{l_{k}}^{m_{{\rm I}_{iK}}-1},\cr\kappa_{n,l}=\prod_{k=1}^{K}(-1)^{n_{k}}{m_{{\rm I}_{ik}}^{n_{k}(l_{k}+1)-1}\over \left(l_{k}!\mu_{{\rm I}_{ik}}^{l_{k}}\right)^{n_{k}}},\cr B_{n}=\sum_{k=1}^{K}n_{k}{m_{{\rm I}_{ik}}\over \mu_{{\rm I}_{\max_{k}}}},\cr A_{n,l}= \sum_{k=1}^{K}l_{k}n_{k},
\end{cases}
\end{align*}

\rm !!!! not seen that in math mode for a long time:-) and \over !!! and \cr wh

6:12 PM
Yes sorry, this is IEEE suggested not me

@barznjy What? really?
Ah you mean the right click show TeX stuff right?

@barznjy well again that is new info are you using a IEEE class, all examples should be complete documents

I remember last time egreg told me not to use \rm but I copied that equation from IEEE website

@DavidCarlisle That's what the new Full Text as HTML thingy that IEEE introduced. Similar to MathJax. It spits out true gems.
Well new as in 2010 :)

Yes, that is the new feature in IEEE website

6:14 PM
@barznjy Is that products of summations in the first line?

@barznjy I tried to make a document but
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\begin{document}
begin{align*}
\begin{cases}
\sum_ {l_{1},l_{k}}^{m_{{\rm I}_{i1}},m_{{\rm I}_{iK}}}= \sum_{l_{1}=0}^{m_{{\rm I}_{i1}}-1} \cdots \sum_{l_{k}}^{m_{{\rm I}_{iK}}-1},\cr\kappa_{n,l}=\prod_{k=1}^{K}(-1)^{n_{k}}{m_{{\rm I}_{ik}}^{n_{k}(l_{k}+1)-1}\over \left(l_{k}!\mu_{{\rm I}_{ik}}^{l_{k}}\right)^{n_{k}}},\cr B_{n}=\sum_{k=1}^{K}n_{k}{m_{{\rm I}_{ik}}\over \mu_{{\rm I}_{\max_{k}}}},\cr A_{n,l}= \sum_{k=1}^{K}l_{k}n_{k},
\end{cases}
\end{align*}

! Missing $inserted. <inserted text>$
l.5 \begin{cases}

?

Package amsmath Warning: Foreign command \over;
(amsmath)                \frac or \genfrac should be used instead
(amsmath)                 on input line 6.

! Missing $inserted. <inserted text>$
l.7 \end{cases}

This is what I see in the paper

@barznjy make a document as I have above that shows what you are seeing

6:17 PM
I don't know who introduced this single left brace notation but it doesn't make much sense. I see in a lot of articles I'm reviewing.

@DavidCarlisle
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{blkarray}
\usepackage[english]{babel}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\usepackage{graphicx}
\usepackage{cases}

\usepackage{amsmath}
\makeatletter
\renewcommand{\slimits@}{\limits}
\renewcommand{\nmlimits@}{\limits}
\makeatother

\usepackage{geometry}
\geometry{a4paper,total={210mm,297mm},left=20mm,right=20mm,top=20mm,bottom=20mm,}

\begin{document}

\begin{align*}
\begin{cases}
\sum_ {l_{1},l_{k}}^{m_{{\rm I}_{i1}},m_{{\rm I}_{iK}}}= \sum_{l_{1}=0}^{m_{{\rm I}_{i1}}-1} \cdots \sum_{l_{k}}^{m_{{\rm I}_{iK}}-1},\

@barznjy so that makes some warnings about the horrible markup, but doesn't it work as desired with displaystyle limits?

This is works
\usepackage{amsmath}
\makeatletter
\renewcommand{\slimits@}{\limits}
\renewcommand{\nmlimits@}{\limits}
\makeatother

But it applies to all , I want to have a choice, for example for normal equations I use it, and for in line equation I don't use it,
@DavidCarlisle Yes, I should use IEEE classes

@barznjy I have no idea what this package is doing, but guess use \displaylimits instead of \limits

6:35 PM
@barznjy I'm still wondering what the first line actually means, is it a recursive sum or multiplication?
By the way since they are only indices why not writing
\sum_ {a,b}^{c,d}(x)= \sum_{a=0}^{c-1} \cdots \sum_{b}^{d-1} (x),\\
?

I is the products of summations

But what is the rule for the inner sums? Increase the limits by 1?
Subscripts of subscripts are really a control-theory-people' signature :)

@percusse: sir, we can run a Matlab instance inside an arara rule! :)

@PauloCereda You definitely meant Python.

@percusse That too. And Haskell. And Ruby.

6:38 PM
To run a 2 kiB .m script you need 350 MiB runtime library
@PauloCereda I don't know what you discovered but seems like we'll all switch to arara no matter what

@percusse We are arara. Resistence is futile. :)

@percusse we have k sum.
each sum is from l to m_{I}
You are right, as I said this is what the paper mentined, i will double check it

@PauloCereda We arera?

@percusse
“Transmit antenna selection based on shadowing side information”
Proc. 2011 IEEE Vehicular Technology Conference, pp. 1-5

@percusse Aretha. :)

6:41 PM
@PauloCereda Is it ararium if you run it once?

@percusse ordinarium araræ - our manual. :)

@PauloCereda let me hinder the progress significantly kongregate.com/games/HyperHippoGames/adventure-capitalist

Hi.. I want to use an xticklabel=\tick, but the numbers come out as 1.00000000000000000000. How can I fix those individual numbers? I think this is drawn by pgfplots but I can't think of an idea to tell pgfplots to hold its horses for just a bit.
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{tikz}
\usepackage{pgfplots}
\pgfplotsset{compat=1.10}
\begin{document}
\begin{figure}
\begin{tikzpicture}
\begin{axis}[
axis lines=left,
xmin = 0, xmax = 4,
ymin = 0, ymax = 4,
xticklabel=\tick,
xtick={1,3},
]

\draw[ultra thin, dashed] (axis cs:3,0) -- (interpb);
\end{axis}
\end{tikzpicture}
\end{figure}
\end{document}

@barznjy Let me see if VPN works

@percusse Oh my.

6:44 PM
@percusse do you want me to send you the paper

This Kongregate game requires the Unity3D plugin. It is free, and takes only a few minutes to install.

Note: if you have trouble with upgrading Unity, uninstall the old version first.
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@percusse: ^^ bah. :)

@1010011010 xticklabel={\pgfmathprintnumber[fixed]\tick},
@barznjy I'll just check it in a minute
@PauloCereda what? Am I using a more obscure thing than you?

@1010011010 percusse's works, or, if you want it to try to be smart: xticklabel={\pgfmathprintnumber[std]{\tick}}

@percusse LOL

@percusse look at eqn 12

6:48 PM

@percusse OK

@barznjy I got it on Eq.11. Are we looking at the same thing ?

@percusse No, eqn 12

This is what I have
And it is pretty readable compared to what you have

6:53 PM
Yes

That's pretty different than what you initially showed
with cases

but they are the same

They all start from zero for example
you have l_k in your version in the last sum

you can change the limit to 1 and add 1 to the upper limit, no difference

No, then you need l_k = 1 specifically
Still I don't understand how you evaluate this sum.

6:57 PM
@percusse my question was about writing the limits under and above the prod, and sum
I understand this eqn. it is not difficult

@barznjy I mean notation wise. It's pretty tedious. For me it is unnecessary complication. Recursion is good for programming not for explaining. Some symbols appear all the way in the right column. But anyway, if you are ok with it...

2 hours later…
8:38 PM
Welcome to TeX.SX! You have unprotected end-of-lines in your definition that translate into spaces. Put % at the end of each line in the argument to \newcommand. See Why the end-of-line % in macro definitions? and Where are the necessary places to be appended with % to remove unwanted spaces?egreg 20 mins ago
some things never change....

@PauloCereda I looked at the arara doc yesterday and started to read up on rules. The new syntax seems to be better.
@PauloCereda What i really would prefer is @cis saying something here (as @cgnieder suggested at texwelt.de) so we can have the discussion in one place. Right now Clemens and i are reporting back and forth, which seems to be a bit like »Stille Post«.

@DavidCarlisle But I restrained from giving an answer!

8:54 PM
@Johannes_B @cgnieder: I was talking to Brent (member of the core team) and we were discussing a possible fork instead of breaking things. We would still update arara as maintenance mode, but migrate to other tool.

9:14 PM
@PauloCereda Seems logical, but arara is such a nice name.
@PauloCereda I still like to have @cis involved here.

@Johannes_B I won't give up on arara, I can tell. :)

@PauloCereda And you shouldn't. ;-)

@Johannes_B :)

@PauloCereda I'll try to record my little girl saying arara next time and send it to you. It is so cute. :-)

@Johannes_B Oh my. :) How cute. :)

9:37 PM
I've got an odd error here - suggestions for debugging? i'm getting e.g.
LaTeX Warning: Reference genemousetab' on page 5 undefined on input line 846.
but i'm including \input{GENETABLEMOUSE} and that file has \caption{\bf{List of Mouse gene segments containing RSS.}\label{genemousetab}} 

@FaheemMitha How many .aux'es are being written?

@PauloCereda good question, let me check.
One

@FaheemMitha Oh.

I guess I could try and strip this file down, but it's gonna be a pain. OTOH, this bug is going to keep plaguing me till i fix it.

@FaheemMitha Is GENETABLEMOUSE.tex listed in the .log file?

9:47 PM
@egreg hang on, let me check
@egreg Yes.

@FaheemMitha Can you look in the .aux file for the annotation about that caption? What's written?

Actually, the weird thing is that there are two essentially identical files, GENETABLEMOUSE.tex and the other GENETABLEHUMAN.tex, and one has the references resolved ok, the other doesn't.
Funny, there is a line for human
\newlabel{genehumantab}{{3}{10}{\bf {List of Human gene segments containing RSS.}}{table.3}{}}

@FaheemMitha You shouldn't be writing \caption{\bf{Text}} anyway. The command \bf has been obsolete for 20+ years. Use the caption package for setting the font in the captions.

but no such line for mouse
@egreg ok, but I think an R package is doing it. Not me.

@PauloCereda Hi, Paulo! If you have time, could you check your gmail chat?

9:51 PM
@FaheemMitha Oh, well. :(

@GonzaloMedina Sure, right now! :)

@egreg I'll check and see if I can change it.

@FaheemMitha But does the caption show in the PDF?

The entire table is missing.

@FaheemMitha That explains the missing label, doesn't it? ;-)

9:54 PM
I think maybe the style has a cutoff limit of pages. Is that possible? Actually, I think I remember this from before. If I switch the table files, which are right at the end, then the other one gets a ref problem.
@egreg :-)
Question: is there a way of forcing multiple empty pages? I'll see if I can reproduce this behavior with no content.

@FaheemMitha I suspect a spurious \end{document} somewhere.

maybe just a lot of \newpages?
@egreg in my document?

@FaheemMitha Yes, or in GENETABLEMOUSE.tex; maybe \endinput.

@egreg ok, looking.
@egreg No, those files are generated by an R package, no begin or end documents.
@egreg congrats on 300k, btw.
So, forcing blank pages, repeated \newpages, or something else? AFK, back in a bit.

@FaheemMitha Thanks. But if the file is loaded and the table doesn't appear, there must be something that closes it before the table can be read. No style that I know of has limitations on pages. Try \clearpage before \input{GENETABLEMOUSE}
@FaheemMitha Are you perhaps getting errors? Like "Too many unprocessed floats"?

10:13 PM
@egreg Ok, trying that now.
@egreg Would this be in the log file?

@FaheemMitha Of course.

@egreg Clearpage fixes, the problem, but now there is one page with just the human gene table on it.

@FaheemMitha Let me guess: your tables have \begin{table}[h]

\begin{table}[!ht] actually
Again, not added by me, but by the R package. I forge what that means - is it bad?
I take that back, it is me. the argument is where='!ht'.
What should I use?
Hmm, according to tex.stackexchange.com/a/8653/3406 !ht is quite aggressive.
That's probably my problem. What should I change it to?

10:42 PM
@FaheemMitha including p is usually a good idea, although ! means ignofre all constraints that try to improve the typography so that should really be added as last resort not as default

@DavidCarlisle Ok. So, one could do [htp]?

@FaheemMitha +yes or if you have a long sequence of tables one after the other best not to use the table` environment at all, really.

@DavidCarlisle Just leave it out?
Taking out the ! doesn't make any difference. Same problem

@FaheemMitha table is a floating environment that tries to move a table to fit in with page breaking of surrounding text if you just have an appendix of chapter with a sequence of tab+

@DavidCarlisle These two tables come right at the end of the paper.
They're part of the appendix.
@DavidCarlisle unfinished sentence?
Anywhere, so there is really no surrounding text at that point. The paper is finished - except for those tables. I guess I could move them earlier in the paper, but the end really seems like the natural place for these tables.

10:53 PM
@FaheemMitha smoke alarm went off, took precedence:-)

Home or work?

@FaheemMitha 5 to midnight, I hope I'm at home:-)

@DavidCarlisle Ah, right GMT. or thereabouts.
Anyway, your basic recommendation here is no table environment? If there is no text to fit the tables in, does TeX freak out, and lose the tables, or what?

@FaheemMitha seems Ok we just had the boiler serviced, hopefully just some stray fumes...

@DavidCarlisle Do you have CO detector?
Carbon monoxide, that is.

10:56 PM
@FaheemMitha yes seems clean

@DavidCarlisle ok

@PauloCereda Another 41 vote day. I'll catch you soon.

What can arara do that scons can't?

@FaheemMitha latex typically holds tables back to see if some better fitting pages turn up and after 18 it'll run out of float boxes. If you just use tabular it never saves them back and just typesets them as they come

@DavidCarlisle I don't understand. 18 what? hold back 18 tables?

11:02 PM
@FaheemMitha Look here
33

I'm trying to a large number of figures. The code is \begin{figure} \includegraphics[scale=0.5]{m2T4.pdf} \caption{M2T, Problem Size 513} \end{figure} I'm not able to compile, I get the error ! LaTeX Error: Too many unprocessed floats. See the LaTeX manual or LaTeX Companion for explanation. ...

@egreg Ok