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8:00 PM
@mick Perhaps it was poorly phrased. But $\ln(z-1)$ is not even defined on the whole complex plane. The only functions that have always-defined inverses are the linear ones. That's the point he was making.
 
@Danu exactly what I was thinking
 
$\LaTeX$ Issue: $\iddots$ isn't working. Isn't the mathdots package activated on this site?
 
why is Daniel making a sad face and getting a lot of stars?
 
@mick So... who's this?
 
@Nick I don't think it is
 
8:01 PM
@BalarkaSen It's about someone getting upvotes while posting "crap"
 
oh that "Dr. Son" who answers "hard" crap
that's another star from me
 
A German doctor?
 
Long time no see, guys!
^_^
 
@TheGame: Wouldn't it be best if it were?
 
Hi @Khallil :D
 
8:03 PM
Hello @Khallil
 
nice to see you back pal
 
@Nick What does \iddots do ?
 
@robjohn: Can the \iddots from the mathdotspackage be used on this site?
 
math.stackexchange.com/users/175066/dr-sonnhard-graubner? Incredibly low reputation considering the amount of answers & the size of math.SE
 
How've y'all been, @Balarka, @IceBoy, @Nick and @Hippa ahem @TheGame?
 
8:04 PM
@TheGame: It's the inverse of $\ddots$
 
@Khallil not bad
 
@Khallil Well well but I have one question pending :c
 
@Khallil chillin'
 
^_^
 
@Nick i first read \idiots :p
 
8:05 PM
@IceBoy: Global Warming will affect you soon enough.
 
@mick the question is still vague.
 
@Nick Perhaps
 
@BalarkaSen I edited
 
still vague.
 
When global warming hits, we'll be maxin' and relaxin', @Nick. =P
 
8:05 PM
what is unclear ?
 
define "include"
 
@BalarkaSen
seriously ?
 
yes, seriously so. it's a nonmathematical term
you can't mathematically make sense out of it
 
isnt " include a math term ??(not) including addition , substraction etc , isnt that used to define that general quintics cannot be solved by radicals ?
@BalarkaSen
 
If you have a differential equation that you can solve by multiplying through by an integrating factor, say $e^{\int \frac{1}{t} \text{ d}t} = e^{\log|t|} = |t|$, do we have to just go on ahead and assume $t$ is positive?
 
8:08 PM
@mick no.
if you think it's mathematical, define it. you can't.
 
contain then instead of include ? @BalarkaSen
 
@mick "contain" as in "set inclusion"? that doesn't make sense :P
 
expressed by , instead of include ? @BalarkaSen
 
still nonmathematical
 
then how is it said mathematically ?
 
8:10 PM
there is no way. your question is void.
that was my point all along :P
 
its not void :s
 
ok, then define all the nonmathematical terms you used.
 
@robjohn I proved the whole class! That identity should have my name (well, it will have).
 
otherwise, it's vague and thus void. should be closed.
 
@Chris'ssis Class ?
 
8:12 PM
its just like a quintic zero might not have an expression including a sqrt ... @BalarkaSen
 
@IanMateus!
 
@TheGame I proved a thing that Ramanujan himself didn't prove, but only a particular case.
 
@Chris'ssis Show me :D
 
@BalarkaSen hello!
 
@mick huh? there is a very precise and mathematical formulation of abel-ruffini
 
8:12 PM
Hey, @Chris'ssis!
 
@BalarkaSen Maybe i can use that then to rephrase ...
 
Huy
Don't you recognise me with my new colour, @Khallil? :(
 
@mick Maybe. Try it then.
 
I always feel strange posting questions about identities which almost certainly are known but for which i don't know a reference...
0
Q: Integration of $F(\sum_k x_k)$ over positive orthant

Semiclassical Problem Suppose we some function $F\left(\sum\limits_{k=1}^n x_k\right)$ over the positive orthant $[0,\infty)^n$. Show that this this is proportional to the integral $\int\limits_0^\infty s^{n-1}F(s)\,ds$. What is the constant of proportionality? If this is a well-known result, a referen...

 
Oh my
-7
A: Find the all possible real solutions of $x^y=y^x$

Dr. Sonnhard Graubnerthe solution is $\left\{\left\{y\to -\frac{x W\left(-\frac{\log (x)}{x}\right)}{\log (x)}\right\}\right\}$

 
8:13 PM
:O - How'd you get the brand new avatar, @Huy? It's so cool!
 
@BalarkaSen Spivak is great. Very very nice exercises. Having a good time
 
Also, how've you been, @Huy?
 
Huy
@Khallil: I don't know how. Busy as ever. How were your first weeks of uni?
 
@IanMateus Nice to know. I am studying topology actually :)
 
Super busy but very fun, @Huy!
 
8:14 PM
@BalarkaSen what exactly?
 
I picked a lot of Physics modules for next term. ^_^
 
@IanMateus Point-set topology.
 
@BalarkaSen it says no solutions in radicals .... ( from wiki ) and then the link for radicals gives me nth roots ... not so formal ?? or is wiki wrong ?
 
@huy did you manage to work out that $e^{\alpha H}$ identity you were working on?
 
Am I the only one thinking that the doctor gets lots of his answers from wolfram ?
 
8:15 PM
algebraic solution might be it
 
Huy
@Semiclassical: I had a busy day with laundry and buying furniture, so I couldn't check it again today. I will tomorrow, I think.
 
ok. i think it might actually pretty simple
 
Huy
@Semiclassical: Ideas?
 
@mick most of what wiki says is BS. it just gives you an "intuitive" interpretation.
@Mick Do you know any Galois theory?
 
first, let me confirm what the statement was
 
8:17 PM
@TheGame hmmm
 
@Chris'ssis Can I have some tips on computing particular values of digamma?
 
@BalarkaSen i do not agree ; i mean on wiki they talk about " closed form relying on " thats not better then " integrand not including " ...
 
Huy
@BalarkaSen: I have a different impression. A lot of things on wikipedia are by no means BS. Maybe some aren't 100% rigorous, but some things are. And most other things are detailled enough, imo.
 
no , i do not know Galois theory
 
@TheGame are you there?
 
8:18 PM
@mick Then you wouldn't understand it. The general formulation is "A polynomial $P(x)$ of degree $5$ over $\Bbb Q[x]$ has nonsolvable Galois group"
 
@Chris'ssis yep
 
@TheGame see here
 
Huy
@Semiclassical: $$\frac{d}{d\lambda} e^{\alpha H} = \int_0^\alpha d\tau \, e^{\tau H} V e^{-\tau H} e^{\alpha H}$$ for $H = H_0 + \lambda V$.
 
thanks
 
@Chris'ssis Ooh
I see
 
8:19 PM
@BalarkaSen But common , i do not want to ask about Galois theory ! I want to ask about contour integral .... I shouldnt be an expert on Galois theory to ask about contour integral ??
 
@TheGame I proved that whole class. I hope I'm the first one that did it.
 
@Huy Well everyone can't have the same opinion. I find that wiki tries to fool nonmathematical or amateur mathematician in a sophisticated way.
 
first, we can carry out the diff. on the LHS to get $\alpha V e^{\alpha H}$
 
@mick No, not necessarily, but the point is that your question is void.
 
@BalarkaSen maybe unclear , but not void
or unformal
but not void
 
8:20 PM
"expressible by" or "closed forms" or "using" is vague and nonmathematical.
 
@Chris'ssis We'll see in your book :D
 
@huy: which suggests multiplying the RHS on the right by $\alpha^{-1} e^{-\alpha H}$. that can be pulled into the integral
 
@mick Void if you can't define those terms ^
 
@TheGame Yeah, sure.
 
Huy
@BalarkaSen: Do you have any examples? I am interested in why you'd think so. I have been using wikipedia for so long without any complaints.
 
8:20 PM
@Chris'ssis You're solving so many things, how will that fit in one book ?
10k pages book
 
@TheGame lol, well I want to add to my book the most crazy awesome stuff I have.
 
@BalarkaSen not using sqrt ( for example ) , simply means I do not want to see a solution that has a sqrt in it ...
 
@Chris'ssis That is crazy awesome
 
@Huy Not off the top of my head. Will ping you if I come over any.
 
then the identity becomes $$V = \frac{1}{\alpha} \int_0^\alpha d\tau \, e^{\tau H} V e^{-\tau H}$$ since $e^{\alpha H} e^{-\alpha H}=1$ ($H$ commutes with itself, after all)
 
Huy
8:21 PM
@BalarkaSen: That really shows me how bad ALL of wikipedia must be, if you can't provide a single example off the top of your head.
 
@mick So why does $x^{1/2}$ disqualify?
 
@TheGame Thanks.
@Alizter There are some papers on this topic. Study first the formulae on wikipedia and make sure you know them well.
 
@huy ...which actually leaves me perplexed, since i don't see how that could be true. hrmmmm
 
if I ask for a nonpolynomial function that does not contain a sqrt , i do not want to see
sqrt(x) or sqrt(x^2+1) or sqrt(ln(x)) ... ln(sqrt(x)) is arguable because it can be simplified ...
 
i may have erred in writing the derivative as $\alpha Ve^{\alpha H}$ rather than $\alpha e^{\alpha H}V$
 
8:25 PM
@Huy I'd really appreciate if you can put your tone down a few notches. I have expressed my personal views on wiki and just because I can't provide examples RIGHT AT THIS MOMENT doesn't mean that you're going to reply in SUCH an attacking tone.
 
Huy
@Semiclassical: I thought so too. As it's V instead of H, I think they don't necessarily commute.
 
right
 
@Semiclassical Since $V$ and $H_0$ don't commute, the derivative is more complicated.
 
V and H_0 usually wouldn't
nod, was too careless there
 
@BalarkaSen I understand how you feel , but maybe you feel better as seeing it as a defense for me / wiki rather than an attack on you ... which is probably closer to the truth ...
 
Huy
8:26 PM
@BalarkaSen: I'm not attacking. I'm just saying I would never state something such as "this [...] website is complete BS" if I didn't have a single example in my mind. Because if anyone asked and I couldn't provide one, I'd be a bit embarassed.
 
pretty sure we're not convincing each other in any case
so not really any reason to get up in arms about it
 
In case anyone's up to explaining this small tidbit to me (looks at @Huy :D):
19 mins ago, by Khallil
If you have a differential equation that you can solve by multiplying through by an integrating factor, say $e^{\int \frac{1}{t} \text{ d}t} = e^{\log|t|} = |t|$, do we have to just go on ahead and assume $t$ is positive?
 
@mick That's still a LOT nonrigorous.
You need to define your terms to begin with the question, @mick
 
@BalarkaSen But everyone know what I meant !! so how to translate it ??
 
It's nonmathematical enough to get closed.
@mick No they don't.
 
8:28 PM
@BalarkaSen how could there be confusion ??
 
Huy
@Khallil: Not sure I'm following but why does $t$ have to be positive if you're taking the absolute value?
@Khallil: Also, you're missing a constant factor. :P
 
@Chris'ssis If you name something after yourself, no one will ever call it that. If someone else who writes a book or well-renowned paper names it after you, then it might catch on.
 
That's how I've seen it done in loads of examples, both online and in lecture. It's not just $t$ either. I've seen my lecturer let $e^{\int \frac{1}{x} \text{ d}x} = e^{|x|} = x$, @Huy.
(I know I know, but the constant cancels out anyway and I'm comfortable with that.)
 
@robjohn which is silly imho ...
 
Huy
@Khallil: How does the constant factor out for undefinite integrals?
 
8:30 PM
well, that integral isn't going to make much sense if $x$ can change signs
 
@robjohn If no one did it before me, it's fair to have my name. Yeah, I got your point.
 
It isn't, @Semiclassical?
 
@robjohn an injust snowball effect of popularity if you ask me ... more sociology and psychology then rigor and math ...
 
@mick For example, this works well even with your restrictions : $g(x) = \int_{\Bbb R} \lim_{h\to 0} \frac{f(f^{-2}(f(x+h)-f(x+h-1)))-f(f^{-2}(f(x)-f(x-1)))}{h} dx$
 
imho
 
8:31 PM
nope. what would \int_-1^1 dx/x be?
 
@mick people who need to get honor by building monuments to themselves rarely deserve the honor. It needs to be built by someone else to be taken seriously.
 
@BalarkaSen it still has a limit for the integrand , which was not allowed !
 
Let's say we're going to multiplying our DE by the integrating factor $e^{\int 2x \text{ d}x} = e^{x^2 + \mathcal{C}} = Ae^{x^2}$. The constant $A$ will cancel out anyway, @Huy.
 
having something named after you isn't a sign that you've accomplished something, but that you've done something which the community wants to be able to reference in the future
 
@mick Sure, whoever discovers something deserves to get the credit, but the monument effect is what sways the masses, and masses are what makes a name stick.
 
Huy
8:32 PM
@Khallil: can you give an example of which DE you're looking at? I'm getting a bit confused. :D
 
the latter may imply the former, but the social function is the reason names pop up
 
@robjohn I do not agree. They should be taken serious , if they have done math before and/or their idea is worthwhile.
 
@Semiclassical In my case it's a sign that I did/accomplished something that no one did before. And I did this for many times.
 
@robjohn agreed , but its not justice imho
@Semiclassical you have a point.
 
@mick this is public opinion, not justice.
2
 
8:34 PM
@Huy $$\dfrac{\text{d}x}{\text{d}t} + \dfrac{1}{t} x = 0$$
I just made that one up. It should be ok, however.
 
Check those funny shaped matrices xD
0
Q: Diagonalizing the X and Z matrices

RamanewbieI've got two special matrices I'm trying to diagonalize : The Z matrix :$$\begin{bmatrix} 1&1&\cdots&1&1\ \\&&&1 \\&&\diagup \\&1 \\1&1&\cdots&1&1 \end{bmatrix}$$ (all the other members are $0$) And the X matrix : $$\begin{bmatrix} a&0&\cdots&0&b\ \\0&\ddots&&\diagup&0 \\\vdots&&&&\vdots \\0&...

 
that's kind've fun. 180 degree symmetry!
 
The integrating factor should be $e^{\int \frac{1}{t} \text{ d}t}$ which is equal to (after a bit of algebra) $A|t|$ where $A$ is a constant, @Huy.
 
18
Q: How do blind people learn mathematics?

Peter FlomI am interested in how blind people learn mathematics at any level, but particularly before college. Math is often taught using a lot of visualization; how does this work with blind people? My interest in this is a little round-about. I have nonverbal learning disabilities (NLD) and am writing ...

 
@mick $g(x) = \int_{\Bbb R} \frac{d}{dx} \left [ \frac{f(f^{-2}(f(x+h)-f(x+h-1)))-f(f^{-2}(f(x)-f(x-1)))}{h} \right ] dx$
 
8:36 PM
Multiplying through by that gives: $$ A|t| \dfrac{\text{d}x}{\text{d}t} + \dfrac{A|t|}{t} x = 0$$ The $A$s clearly cancel out as they aren't equal to 0, but what of the $|t|$?
 
note that the simplest way to set up an initial condition for that ODE is to at (say) t=1 or t=-1
whereas doing so at t=0 is going to create problems due to 1/t
 
@Khallil why do you have $|t|$ there?
 
Huy
@Khallil: Yeah, that's what I've been wondering too, @robjohn.
 
I multiplied through by an integrating factor, @robjohn.
 
Oh, you're using that stupid $\log|t|$
 
8:37 PM
2 mins ago, by Khallil
The integrating factor should be $e^{\int \frac{1}{t} \text{ d}t}$ which is equal to (after a bit of algebra) $A|t|$ where $A$ is a constant, @Huy.
 
Do you know why Perelman doest not want to hear of math community anymore? I can tell you why.
 
Huy
@Khallil: $\int dt\, \frac{1}{t} = \log(t) + c$.
 
@Chris'ssis Why?
 
@BalarkaSen I edited a bit now.
 
Is there a reason for the omission of the absolute value signs, @Huy and @robjohn?
44 secs ago, by Huy
@Khallil: $\int dt\, \frac{1}{t} = \log(t) + c$.
 
8:38 PM
Don't use $\log|t|$. The integral is $\log(ct)$ where the $c\lt0$ if $t\lt0$.
 
@mick You can't edit everytime people produce counterexamples and still expect everyone to be interested in answering your question, you know.
 
@BalarkaSen Because Perelman is sick and tired by so many ungrateful, unthankful people in this community, and I also believe he terribly hates the thieves.
 
@Chris'ssis I rather believes he doesn't care about thanks.
 
@BalarkaSen: eh, i disagree with the spirit of that objection (though I haven't examined the question at issue, to be honest)
 
That's why he never took Fields.
@Semiclassical why? :P
 
8:39 PM
What if $t>0$, @robjohn?
 
@Khallil then $c\gt0$
 
just because someone doesn't know the 'correct' question to ask doesn't mean they don't have a useful question
obviosuly it's a fine line, but
 
@BalarkaSen He was always accussed he stole the work of the others ... this si the worst thing that can happen to a great mathematician ...
 
@Chris'ssis Oh?
Reference?
 
Huy
@robjohn: By any chance, do you know how I can show this? $$\frac{d}{d\lambda} e^{\alpha H} = \int_0^\alpha d\tau \, e^{\tau H} V e^{-\tau H} e^{\alpha H}$$ for $H = H_0 + \lambda V$.
 
8:40 PM
sometimes, it's just a matter of clarifying what the assumptions should be
 
@Khallil The integral diverges at $0$ so there can't be a continuous solution across $0$. The integral $\log|t|+C$ seems to indicate that that is okay, but it is not.
 
@BalarkaSen The point is this: you come up with great things, you spend your life on major problems in mathematics and some are there to p*ss on you.
 
There are two pieces to the solution, one for $t\gt0$ and one for $t\lt0$, each with a possibly different constant
 
I should've said $g(x) = \int_{\Bbb R} \frac{d}{dx} \left [ f(f^{-2}(f(x)-f(x-1))) \right] dx$, BTW
 
Thank you, @robjohn!
 
8:43 PM
@Chris'ssis Perelman came up with great things and the community did recognize that!
@mick ^
 
@BalarkaSen You know what? $$\LARGE \text{PERELMAN, THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTITUDE!}$$
 
what attitude? i don't get you
he simply didn't want to take any money for a mathematical achievement
 
@BalarkaSen Maybe you don't know too much about him, that's why ...
 
@Chris'ssis Maybe. Can you point me out to a reference?
 
@BalarkaSen I gave you a documentary here to watch some time ago ...
 
8:46 PM
Oh?
 
@Chris'ssis Perelman ?
 
Huy
@BalarkaSen: That was not the reason why he didn't take the prize, as far as I know.
 
OK, I am definitely mistaken then.
googles for AMS notices
 
@Chris'ssis Didn't Prof. Yau critisise him for no reason or something?
He didn't want the prize because he hated the alpha maleness and the egos of other mathematicians.
 
@Alizter There were more ... you should watch some documentaries about him.
 
8:50 PM
@Chris'ssis I did a bit ago. Can't remember too much.
 
Why to put down someone that works hard and proves to the world he is damn good and can reach the highest peaks?
This is often met in many areas of life. As @JasperLoy often uses to say, I don't find myself at all in this sick world.
 
@Chris'ssis Chaïm Perelman ? :P
 
@BalarkaSen I made an edit , i think the final one.
gave you some credit too :)
 
Huy
@Alizter: Yau didn't really critisise him, but he interpreted Perelman's work as not a complete proof and worked out the "missing bits" himself, thinking he (Yau) completed the proof of the conjecture.
 
@mick it's a super-vague question. i don't think i am going to think about it anymore :P
 
8:54 PM
well, that amounts to a claim that "you're wrong if you think your proof was complete"
which p much is criticism :P
 
@BalarkaSen what do you think of the edit ?
hmm
i see
Its very general but intresting imho
 
i don't even know why it's interesting.
 
@BalarkaSen you are at the tetration forum right ?
 
what is the motivation behind the question though?
@mick yes, but not active.
 
Im going to explain
 
8:56 PM
haven't been there for years
 
the motivation came from a talk with tommy1729 ( as usual ) and the tetration forum.
do you recall the Jay function , the one that approximated the binary partition function ?
@BalarkaSen
Jays function J(x) satisfies J'(x) = J(x/2)
 
LOL "Jay". Do you by any chance mean the modular $j$ function?
 
no , the user Jay d fox
 
Nopes, then I don't know about it.
OK, whoops, I gotta go. Byes.
Catch you later, @mick
 

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