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8:00 PM
@KutuluMike @Yuuki that is the actual discussion.
 
But yeah, there are always going to be people uncomfortable unless they make bathbuildings full of rooms for every sexual preference
 
I'm a proponent of unisex bathrooms.
 
@Fluttershy It's just short for transgender?
 
@Fluttershy definitely not PC.
 
all stalls.
 
8:00 PM
@GnomeSlice or you have unisex single room bathrooms
 
Yeah unisex would just clear the whole thing up
no more debate
 
everyone go into a stall, close the door, proceed in whichever manner your current genital configuration mandates, and leave.
 
@GnomeSlice not really, no
 
equal opportunity, etc
 
Floor-to-ceiling walls.
 
8:01 PM
@GnomeSlice Yeah, no. It isn't.
 
whatever, the word isnt hurting anyone here
 
@KutuluMike that is what I'm proposing and defending.
 
then I agree with you.
 
Same
 
I don't care what gender or sexual preference you are, if I'm in the bathroom, leave me the hell alone
 
8:02 PM
lol
yes
that would be the only way to avoid any more intolerance disputes imo
everyone gets the same thing
 
what is your site about?
 
@Malachi gaming
@GnomeSlice it solves this dispute, yes
 
oh, you guys are way off topic....does that happen often?
 
@GnomeSlice Sorry for the interjection (y'all can go on chatting) but just wanted to point out, it's best to avoid describing people using words they'd find derogatory, whether or not those people are present. And you don't really know whether it's hurting anyone here - there could well be transgender people quietly reading.
 
@Jefromi thank you, well said
@Malachi pretty much
 
8:06 PM
@GnomeSlice This doesn't excuse the use of the word. Why is it so hard for you to admit you're wrong about something and apologize for it? I don't understand this stubborn stance you take when people call you out on shit.
 
@Jefromi Yes let's derail the discussion and disregard my opinion because I said the word "tranny"
 
@GnomeSlice no one is disregarding your opinion
 
well you guys have fun playing the "who is more PC" game. :)
2
 
@Malachi oh /r/PCMasterRace is the most PC
 
@GnomeSlice I didn't say that because you said "tranny", I said it because when it was pointed out as derogatory you said "it's not hurting anyone here", and that doesn't sit well with "be nice." Like I said, go on chatting, just please keep that in mind.
 
8:08 PM
@Jefromi Thank you for your concern (sincerely)
But I have little interest in tiptoeing around for the sake of 'feelings' when discussing topics like this
 
Oh, man, I just used a BSTR for the first time in a decade
 
I'm sorry.
 
BSTR?
 
is it a SAFEARRAY of BSTR?
 
@GnomeSlice binary string
 
8:10 PM
oh, computer thing
 
@GnomeSlice Jfc... Common courtesy isn't "tiptoeing."
12
 
How common can it be, I just assumed it was shortform
 
@GnomeSlice tranny is more oftenly associated with transgender people associated with adult content (just google "tranny"), hence it is considered "not PC".
 
It's not that it's "not PC" it's that it's blatantly disrespectful.
9
 
@Jefromi yes.
 
8:12 PM
begun the star wars have
 
I can totally understand thinking it was purely a short form. (I thought that at some point too.) But it's not.
 
passive aggressive stars, ho
 
@GnomeSlice the short form is "trans" which is also 1 fewer letter to type
 
@GodEmperorDune Here's $20, go see a Star War
 
@GnomeSlice I'm tempted to pin this
 
8:13 PM
@GnomeSlice HO IS DEROGATORY
 
But I won't
 
(I'm not helping)
 
saves typing. go green
 
@Sterno haha
 
@Sterno urmom is derogatory
 
8:14 PM
Aw c'mon, I thought my AD quote was good :(
 
cc @Wipqozn
 
Another way of explaining the issue with the word, and I may be wrong here, is that it's roughly equivalent in terms of derogatory-ness to saying "homo".
 
@Sterno it makes you seem that you are still in the late 80s, early 90s?
 
@Sterno Fair, but major difference in intent
also, I don't think it would be really worth disrupting a discussion because somebody said 'homo' either
 
I understand that you did not have derogatory intent.
 
8:15 PM
what is happening
why are people raining
 
@ardaozkal hurrdurrflags
 
VTC the bridge as developer intent
 
@ardaozkal Something got flagged
 
ofc, flag
 
or something
/lazy
 
8:16 PM
VTC @uni as confuses @badp
 
Just because I don't intend to be mean when I call you "f--kface" doesn't mean that it's okay to call someone "f--kface".
 
@GnomeSlice Of course not, because you've made the decision that not taking time to examine things from the perspective of others is a sane approach to life
And it's really, really not
 
wait did @GnomeSlice get banned? i thought we agreed there was no derogatory intent
 
This is why you fall for Milo's bullshit, because you're okay with saying "Screw other people"
 
@TimStone That is not at all what I have done
 
8:17 PM
@GodEmperorDune no 0ws.pw/0srp.png
 
It absolutely is
 
My interjection didn't have to be a disruption. An acceptable response would've been "good point, I'll avoid insulting people".
2
 
Do I want to know who Milo is?
 
10 mins ago, by GodEmperorDune
@GnomeSlice no one is disregarding your opinion
 
You think that you're being tough not "worrying about other's feelings"
 
8:17 PM
tell that to my deleted message?
 
It's a morally bankrupt position
That's the end of the story
 
@ardaozkal i told you my work blocks your homegrown imgur
 
@GodEmperorDune upload to chat.se/rooms/1
that's how I do it
 
@Unionhawk not worth it
 
Since that can upload by URL
 
8:18 PM
@TimStone I am just getting tired of this constant 'you can't say that word' 'nope, can't say that one either' thing
 
Well, fine
 
like what is the big deal it's individual words, said without intent to harm
 
@GnomeSlice Because you want to be able to do whatever you want without regard for others!
That's the whole point
Caring is effort
And it's easier to say "I don't care"
 
@GnomeSlice because the word still harms even if you don't intend it to
 
@GnomeSlice While intent does play a part in it, it's not the whole thing!
 
8:19 PM
1
Q: MineCraft: Display Player gamemode (In Game) using a command?

ScottUSAI have searched and researched. I do NOT need to know HOW to set gamemode. I need to display (or list) the gamemode of each player in the game from the command line. Is that possible? Thanks.

 
Anyway, I'm not going to drag you into some heated discussion again, but argh
 
Just because you didn't intend to harm someone didn't mean you didn't harm them
 
@GodEmperorDune fine. does ardao.me or edebiyat.xyz work?
 
@SaintWacko that's true
 
8:20 PM
The page you are trying to access has been blocked.

URL:

https://edebiyat.xyz/

Reason:

This Websense category is filtered: Elevated Exposure.
 
@Jefromi You're right, I guess. Apologies.
 
Geez, @ardaozkal, stop elevating your exposure
 
deleting the message was a bit much though, no?
 
@GnomeSlice No worries, all I care about is that you avoid it in the future :)
 
@GnomeSlice \o/
 
8:20 PM
@GnomeSlice Thank you
 
@GnomeSlice i think it was to avoid you getting flagged and banned on it by someone else
 
@GodEmperorDune ugh
 
@GodEmperorDune wtf
 
@TimStone I care a lot about other people
I just care about actually important things, and not bullying people because they said a word you don't like
"actually important things" being the discussion we were having
 
You're just dismissing the concerns of others as not being actually important!
 
8:21 PM
@ardaozkal each time i hit a url like that it goes into company websense logs
 
Right there!
 
they just asked for you to apologize.
 
I don't like all the pony avatars in chat
is that important?
 
You don't get to make that decision for other people
 
Obviously not, because we all still have them
 
8:22 PM
@GnomeSlice Are you hurt by them?
 
Yep
And to ask me how is hate speech
 
What? Why?
 
@GodEmperorDune forcepoint.com/master-database-url-categories probably due to it being not configured.
 
user15026
How is that even....
 
@GnomeSlice I was going to ask you if you would object to the word being edited to "trans" or "transgender", but the message disappeared. Not a big loss to the world, though, it has to be said.
 
8:23 PM
guys i thought we solved this 2 minutes ago
 
@PaulWhite No, that would have been fine.
 
That doesn't even make sense
 
To be perfectly honest, I had/have no intention of using the word tranny again either
 
@GodEmperorDune I thought so too, but I guess not
 
it was pointed out, fine, I can easily use other words
but this is getting a bit much
 
8:24 PM
@GodEmperorDune there were flags. that's a solid 8 hours of this mess to look forward to
 
@PaulWhite also thanks for your honesty I guess? clown
 
...
 
no clowns, no clowns
 
user15026
@GnomeSlice Calling people clowns in the midst of all of this is not a good idea.
 
"your message was dumb anyway"
 
8:24 PM
HEY, LET'S COMPLAIN ABOUT HOW I CAN'T UPLOAD IMAGES TO MOBILE CHAT INSTEAD.
 
@GnomeSlice chill. NOONE said that you'll use it again.
 
@Yuuki imgur uploader for android
 
@GnomeSlice I think the reason it's still going on is because you can't seem to figure out why it's a problem
 
@GnomeSlice Clown? How? I was being entirely constructive I thought.
 
@Yuuki ...->request desktop site
 
8:24 PM
@Yuuki Wait, still?
Hmm
 
@Yuuki you could save us with your reddit pics but chose not to
 
@TimStone Yes
 
@PaulWhite "No big loss to the world"
 
This really should be implemented now that new mobile chat is nice
There's a feature request
 
@PaulWhite The "no big loss" was a bit much
 
8:25 PM
you're saying my message wasn't worthwhile
So I'm calling you a clown
 
They just asked for you to apologize rather than saying "no one here is offended".
 
9
Q: Add upload image button to the new mobile chat

Jason CI'd like to see an "upload" button added to the new mobile chat (accepting both web links and local files). It would make it so much more convenient to take pictures of my cats and repost them.

 
@GnomeSlice Well it's not. The message itself won't be missed.
 
@yuuki protip: upload pic in SE mobile app, then copy the stack.imgur url and paste into mobile chat
 
ALSO, MY DOG IS KINDA STINKY.
 
8:25 PM
@PaulWhite You weren't even involved in the discussion
 
@GodEmperorDune no
 
@PaulWhite But is it really constructive to say so? It was rude
 
I appreciate you coming here and trying to offer your hand in moderation, but you're just insulting me now
 
@Unionhawk its what i do, works reasonably well
 
Sure I was. It got flagged!
 
8:26 PM
Then edit the word, as you suggested
 
user15026
@PaulWhite We understand that. We all know what happened, we are trying to de-escalate things.
 
Oh geez
 
You really see no value in my message because I included a word you don't like?
 
@SaintWacko Then I apologise to all that found it rude. It's not rude in my location and culture to say that.
 
This is going nowhere good
 
8:26 PM
@PaulWhite flagging does not give you carte blanch to stomp all over it
 
20 mins ago, by GnomeSlice
@Jefromi Yes let's derail the discussion and disregard my opinion because I said the word "tranny"
 
@PaulWhite @GnomeSlice stop and listen
 
@GodEmperorDune I didn't. I offered a gentle edit.
 
@PaulWhite @GnomeSlice this is going nowhere.
 
I'll be back on in an hour or so
 
8:27 PM
@PaulWhite Okay. Now this is something I didn't consider, I guess.
 
cc @sterno
 
Hopefully things are cooled down again
GOODBYE BRIDGE
 
Now we can all stop telling @GnomeSlice why he was wrong and start telling @PaulWhite why he was wrong. Then you can move on to me. LET THE CYCLE CONTINUE
 
user15026
No.
 
YOU GET A WRONG
 
8:27 PM
@Sterno Oh you're quite wrong there :)
 
AND YOU GET A WRONG
 
I will murder you all if you do this. (*not literally pls no to police)
 
EVERYBODY GETS A WRONG!
 
This room was placed in timeout for 5 minutes; the topic of this room is "General Arqade chat, wherein we accept your right to be wrong on the internet, but also like to be wrong on the internet, so occasionally we're wrong on the internet about your wrong on the internet, and that's also okay? It made sense at the time." - conversation should be limited to that topic.
 
1
Cannabis

Proposed Q&A site for the emerging Cannabis industry, medical users and professional growers.

Currently in definition.

4
 
8:28 PM
@NewlyOpenedProposalsforEntertainment ಠ_ಠ
 
…Okay, that was well-timed
 
@fredley I don't know why but that feels like the best non sequitur right now.
 
@fredley To be fair, that was almost exactly the topic.
 
Long-cat suggests we all look past this
 
0
Q: KSP - Mechjeb Ascend Guidance not doing it right

DiogoSaraivaI'm trying to orbit Kerbin at 100km with 90º of orbit inclination using mechjeb ascend guidance but mechjeb is not making vessel orbit correctly. The orbit is like 5º offset and the apoapsis and periapsis is not 100k, is 110k and 90k respectively (approximately) My Vessel and Ascend Guidance se...

 
8:32 PM
Not to continue to abuse mod powers, but as this was discussed in here earlier in the week:
🚨 GOOGLE'S USE OF THE DECLARING CODE AND SSO OF APIS IS FAIR USE 🚨
9
Jury ruled in Google's favour
 
@TimStone \o/
also random reddit things i found while timed out
user image
7
 
@GodEmperorDune bahaha
 
@TimStone Hooray! The position of the company I work for, which is also the only sane position, has been ruled legally correct.
 
pfft.
deja vu
 
@GodEmperorDune Durr-ablo.
@GodEmperorDune I should buy googly eyes.
 
8:34 PM
@murgatroid99 i mean sane position would have been for the API to never be ruled copyrightable in the first place
but i'm happy this won't need to escalate to a 4-4 SCOTUS
 
@fredley good use of modabuse. Was just finishing my message (was going to end with a timeout request) when you timeouted.
 
@GodEmperorDune Yup
 
@GodEmperorDune Sure, maybe I should say "maximally sane outcome of this particular trial"
 
@murgatroid99 yes
i'm waiting for the google doodle to be something making fun of oracle
(probably won't happen)
 
> Movement to a few minutes of terse explanations, including what the acronym GNU stands for: GNU is Not Unix.

“The G part stands for GNU?” Alsup asked in disbelief.

“Yes,” said Schwartz on the stand.

“That doesn’t make any sense,” said the 71-year-old Clinton appointee.
 
8:38 PM
@fredley i read that article, its good
 
Who/what is in charge of the Discord server?
 
@Sterno Nobody knows
 
Is it something a particular person set up? Is it owned by someone?
 
Define "in charge"
 
it's ruled by the hive mind
 
8:39 PM
@GodEmperorDune set it up and has permanent unrevocable rights
 
@Sterno i think @GodEmperorDune started it
 
I don't even know if it's locally hosted by someone or if it needs to be paid for or whatever
 
@Sterno Free, hosted by discord
 
@Sterno nah its free
 
@GodEmperorDune West coast US? Or east?
 
8:40 PM
Okay, final question: Why are we even arguing about room names? Can't we just make more if we don't like existing ones?
 
@Dragonrage afaik yuuki
 
(catching up on drama I missed)
I don't even understand what the issue was though
 
0
Q: Where is the cell "old cell key" unlocks?

klm123I found "old cell key", but I can't find that "old cell". Where is it? This is crazy but it seems like everybody in the internet shows how to find the key (which is super easy with out any hints), but noone care to show how to find the cell.

0
Q: What is the difference between physical and magical lifesteal?

camelCaseLifesteal items allow you to heal yourself by attacking another player. However, I am finding items are either physical lifesteal or magical lifesteal. I know gods are classed as either physical or magical, but not sure how this applies to these two types of lifesteal. Maybe there is no connec...

 
@Sterno Essentially the protocol now will be give pretty much everyone the right to manage rooms, and make them more ad hoc, create one when you need and then clean it up later
 
I guess I thought that already was the protocol.
 
8:42 PM
@Sterno the problem was that there were "edit wars" on room names
 
So people were editing each other's rooms because reasons or something?
 
@TimStone @GnomeSlice apologises.
 
Just call every channel "Sterno is awesome". Problem solved.
 
and I guess someone decided that too many rooms are bad or something, so there's a limited amount
 
Is there an actual limited amount (as far as the free-ness goes)?
 
8:43 PM
@Unionhawk i tried to look it up and its a pain in the ass ot figure out on mobile
 
@Sterno as far as I know, no
there's also no non-free option either
 
@ardaozkal It's not like he call me a name or anything, so I'm not sure what he's apologising for, but I appreciate that either way :)
 
as far as I know
 
yeah i think they are in marketshare building mode
 
@GodEmperorDune I think it's configurable, technically I think east is most central but w/e
 
8:44 PM
I hereby declare @Dragonrage to be in charge and the ultimate authority, and anyone who doesn't like it can create their own unofficial Arcade discord thinger. ALL HAIL @Dragonrage
 
@Sterno I think maybe people don't want too many rooms because it's messy
UI-wise
 
@Unionhawk if latency starts to be a problem, we can def move it
 
It honestly probably doesn't matter
 
(In this case, I'm actually just declaring reality)
 
You can do that?
 
8:45 PM
I had some latency problems that were fixed upon restart
 
earth.setGravity(0.7);
Darn. Was worth a shot.
 
@Unionhawk yeah teh desktop app was resource hungry for a while
 
I was having a lot of Discord problems yesterday.
 
Dear mods -> I don't like being a middleman for messages so drop by Discord please.
Topic, btw: "Can somebody ask them why I'm banned"
Which is a question I agree with.
 
@Sterno I mean, he is a raging dragon, so
 
8:53 PM
factoryidle.com << anyone played this?
2
 
@Sterno hmm, im okay with this
 
@djsmiley2k Factorio: the incremental
 
what. rule. did. I. break.
 
@djsmiley2k oh it finally launched
 
@djsmiley2k it was starred a while ago I think (or maybe just posted)
I played it for a couple days, but got bored quick
 
8:56 PM
So video games
 
Bans generally aren't discussed while the banned user isn't around; even then it's not generally done publicly.
 
@ArtOfCode It makes a a lot more sense to say that than kick someone and say nothing.
 
@Sterno I didn't kick anyone. I imagine you were notified of who did, being a room owner.
Just making a general comment as to why the ban likely won't be explained to everyone.
 
@ArtOfCode Sure, but he can read it too. cc @fredley if that makes it clearer
I apparently can't type
 
9:01 PM
Now I'd really like some pizza.
 
Man, we need to stop putting all our energy into drama and put it into Overwatch instead.
 
@Wipqozn That's right. That means you should stay up until at least midnight tonight
 
I can't even eat pizza right now. It's terrible. Although I have lost a lot of weight due to those restrictions, so there's that.
 
@Wipqozn I don't have OW :(
 
@Sterno I stayed up past midnight last night. It's crazy. I'm out of control.
 
9:02 PM
@Wipqozn what would Bridge be without drama though
 
@Chippies Boring
 
@Wipqozn yea, all you guys need to move to california so you arent asleep when i start playing overwatch
 
Exactly!
 
@Wipqozn Overwatch will prepare you for parenthood. To better do this, stay up until midnight, then wake yourself up in 40 minutes or so and play overwatch for 1d6*10 minutes, then go to sleep for 2d4*10 minutes. Continue until 5am. Then get up, pee on your clothes, and start screaming loudly in your own ear
 
-1
Q: My Powersave stops working when I put in Omega Ruby.

EmilyI every time I put in my Omega Ruby, the powersave stops working. It pulls up the message "PowerSaves3DS.exe has stopped working" But it works with all my other games. How can I fix it?

 
9:05 PM
@Sterno Man, children sound terrible. Is there a way to just skip to the part where they're fully capable of taking care of themselves and then you just need to spend all you time worrying that they'll make the right decisions in life, and concerned that accident you heard about with a car the same colour as their was them?
 
@Wipqozn They have that feature built-in! It's “six years of near-blackout sleep deprivation” ;)
 
@Sterno Instructions unclear, peed on Overwatch for 2d4*10 minutes.
 
I mean, to be fair, you kind of miss that smell of pee in the morning when they get older
2
 
Ooo! Zelda symphonic movements tomorrow while coding sounds like much plan cc @Wipqozn
 
Or just be @StrixVaria and have a kid who magically sleeps for 14 hours straight or whatever
 
9:07 PM
@Unionhawk That does sound like a plan
@Sterno You must hate him for that
 
The TP movement just came on in my car
 
@Sterno are you sure his kid is... alive?
or... not a cat?
 
@Wipqozn I did hate him for that, but now that I'm past that point with my own kids, I've mostly repressed the memories and we can be buds again.
 
@Chippies Can you imagine if @StrixVaria sent us a picture of his child, and it was just a cat dressed up, and we were all like "...what..."
 
@Sterno Mine does too, incidentally
 
9:09 PM
and then it turned out @StrixVaria was a crazy cat lady
 
@Wipqozn well, I mean, he is an owl, so...
 
wat
 
@TimStone I've noticed so far in personal anecdotes a correlation between kids who sleep well and having one of the parents who is stay-at-home. When both parents work, the kid is a worse sleeper. Does that fit for you?
 
I didn't buy OW buy I can play it
License error.
 
So by "play" you meant "can't play"
 
9:11 PM
@Sterno Nope, we both work. Although she quit her job and then started a new one and then quit and now started a new one again
 
You think Blizzard would allowed with that
 
@TimStone WAY TO COMPLETELY RUIN MY THEORY @TIM STONE
I was going to write a child psychology book and everything.
 
There are some nights where he wakes up a lot even now at 2 1/2 but there seem to be various things that influence that
I have terrible sleeping patterns so I'm not sure where he got it from
 
My son was terrible from about 1 month to 7 months, but now sleeps great. My 4 year old daughter is still up once a night, though at least now she doesn't always wake me for it
 
@Unionhawk ea does. One of my purchases failed, but I have the game in origin and can play.
 
9:13 PM
Okay, I'm home
Left just after the timeout
 
tbh I want OW more than terrible EA games.
 
Completely lost it at the Cannabis NOPE post
 
@Sterno Dont complain about your kids here, they will see it someday and then decide not to take care of you when you are old and feeble and act like a 2 year old
:)
 
@Dragonrage I think that facebook is a bigger risk
 
"Back in my day, we could still pick internet names without numbers on the end..."
 
9:15 PM
@Dragonrage On the contrary, the more I complain the more obligated they'll feel!
 
@ardaozkal quite possible, but this is google indexed
 
Huh. Google vs. Oracle = Google won.
 
@Frank starlist#1
@Dragonrage yeah.
 
@Frank well thats good right?
 
Will Google now consume Oracle like grey goo?
 
9:16 PM
@MadMAxJr then maybe Oracle will become usable
 
@ardaozkal Yes, because I can see what a twitter post says from the link itself.
@Dragonrage Very good.
 
@Frank Use your internet ESP!
 
@Frank ok thats what i thought, i only caught part of it
 
@SaintWacko You mean that thing that clients expect all IT people to have?
 
@Frank Exactly!
 
9:19 PM
@Sterno depends on if they feel they were that bad, or they could just be like, oh look how badly he thought of us, and now he is the same
 
@MadMAxJr Hopefully
 
Your Oracle database now updates itself silently in the background thanks to the Googoracle integration! YOU'RE WELCOME CITIZEN. (Upgrades are mandatory, conform.)
 
@Dragonrage It's not like I called them little monsters. I call all the other kids little monsters.
 
@Sterno Plot twist, im one of your kids from the future who time traveled back to try and get you to admit that they are monsters so that they dont have to take care of you.
 
I tried to figure out what happened earlier and now that I get back to the present I'm confused by you all being goofy as hell
Just another regular day
 
9:27 PM
@twobugs dont try to understand the workings of the bridge, it will drive you insane, and then the bridge will consume you and you will never be heard from again
 
7
I2P

Proposed Q&A site for developers and users of the I2P private Internet router project.

Currently in definition.

 
> followers active in
100.0% Bitcoin
10 views, 7 follows
sure is suspicious
 
i'd forgotten that you can get both an enlightened badge and a good answer badge from the same answer
 
Also all except proposer is under 100rep
 
Meh, if it gets boosted to commit, it won't make it
Oh snaaaaaaaaap
 
9:34 PM
im ~59% of the way to my goal for the end of the year
 
Adriana is amazing
If you like vocal arrangements of VGM, this is the channel for you
 
Hm, I think my keyboard might have been damaged a bit when my dumb coworker tripped on my Surface power cable
 
Ugh, now I'm depressed that I have to wait another week for the next chapter in this manga because this week's chapter was SO DAMN GOOD
 
user15026
9:49 PM
I have two monitors at work noooow :D
 
Ooooo, congrats :D
 
Two monitors is amazing
 
@AshleyNunn Customer problems on the left, stack chat on the right. :D
 
2
Q: What are all the friendly and enemy ultimate sounds?

BonniciWhen ultimates are used in Overwatch, a unique voice line sound effect is played, and it sounds different depending on which team used the ability. Does anyone have a list of what the two voice lines are for each character? Also some enemy voice lines seem to be much harder to hear (Widowmaker, S...

 

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