The Bridge

@GrumpyLazers P. Sure this is second only to AUGH LYDIA for most duped skyrim topic

kalina

ok sleepy time nn

SaintWacko

Hmm

@kalina G'night

I just accidentally sent off a scan of 40k files on one of the production servers

I hope that's not too much of a problem

Ben Brocka

9:35 PM

Lydia pls

@BenBrocka You wouldn't steal a roundabout

user15026

Time to redownload and redo my ubuntu installlll

►

Sad Johnny Five Montage. :(

@AshleyNunn What version?

(or reason)

user15026

@badp 13.04

user15026

9:40 PM

I broke it terribly

user15026

To the point where my SO was like....sweetie, you are getting errors you should never ever get

@AshleyNunn surely that's more a problem for Ask Ubuntu than SO?

user15026

@DanHulme ....significant other

@AshleyNunn daww your computer calls you sweetie?

(but they are likely to give you the same answer)

@AshleyNunn O rly.

9:43 PM

(in Italian SO means OS)

@badp it means Ordnance Survey?

Operative System :|

user15026

@badp It likes me :D

OK, that's enough silliness for one night

user15026

@DanHulme mhm

9:44 PM

@badp That's nothing: it also cuddles her when she's trying to type on her partner.

At least if I understood the picture correctly

user15026

@DanHulme ......oh lord

minecraft minecraft-feed-the-beast

evil

Better

SaintWacko

Purely hypothetical, of course, right? — SaintWacko 1 min ago

Grumpy Lazers

10:00 PM

0

Q: Can I Force Feed someone?

Say, hypothetically, I had someone trapped in an inescapable cage of warded blocks. Say also that I had removed their items and armor before transporting them there. They would eventually starve to death though. Could I prevent this by force feeding them in some way?

0

Q: What constitutes a top-down game?

Normally, when you think of a game "top-down" perspective, you most likely think of something like the old 2D Zelda games, Civilization, or perhaps Starcraft. These are top-down in the sense that the camera is mainly facing down. However, I don't see many games that have their cameras facing dir...

terminology

spugsley

@Wipqozn I though this was really pretty....but then I saw it was you who linked it. So blech

4

@spugsley Understandable.

Something is off about that picture, I can't put my finger on it. And it has nothing to do with Wipqozn.

@GraceNote Oh, I think it has everything to do with @Wipqozn

Fluttershy

10:15 PM

10 hours ago, by Wipqozn

Does anyone else star messages about themselves which only have one star just so people don't think you were the one that starred it first?

I think that the fact that @Wipqozn linked it makes it better.

@NightExcessive THank you! At least somebody appreciates me!

@NightExcessive You would, you sycophant.

@Fluttershy Goood point, I better star that so everyone knows it got 2 real stars.

I think @Wipqozn gave me bad luck. My Gerber just opened into my hand and made a big gash!

10:19 PM

@NightExcessive That'll reach ya.

@NightExcessive Never underestimate the @spugsley.

Hohum.

wat

@fredley I think you have to continue wating for a whole moment there, just one won't do.

@GraceNote I'm not sure how I managed to take a screenshot while the monitor was still starting, adding to the number of wats.

10:23 PM

Stupid hand. Stop bleeding. You're not supposed to do that!

Really? I'm doing something wrong then.

@fredley I was under the impression it meant like, a statistical monitor, not a display monitor. Though this makes me wonder, since you can actually operate a computer with the display off, if you took a screenshot, would it be of what's supposed to be shown or would it be empty?

Logic to me dictates it should be the former, but I've never really tried.

That depends entirely on whether or not the graphics card has already determined what it will show.

@GraceNote I'd imagine that it depends on the API used to capture the desktop.

10:28 PM

"It depends" is a totally legitimate answer.

Yes!

You'd probably get a low-res pseudo-screencap if it's prior to determining available hardware, and the proper one after.

Or you could do something like force Windows to re-render the desktop just for your screencap

Or rather: You'd get whatever is pushed to VGA by default.

Or get the graphics card's output

10:30 PM

guys is this even remotely correct or am I messing level 2 up?

In short, level 1 is about the medium (copper/air); level 2 is about sending data through it to a local recipient (ethernet/wifi); level 3 is about sending them to remote recipients (ip); level 4 is about doing so reliably (tcp/udp); level 5 (and above) are the handled by the game itself. — badp 2 mins ago

Then again, we're talking about Windows. You never know what it does behind the scenes, so ... Whether or not any of the display settings persist while no hardware is available is entirely up to whatever Microsoft cooked up.

@FEichinger Always expect Windows to explode!

@badp I have no idea.

@NightExcessive This is why I'm a Linux user.

@badp Now, if I wasn't drunk and tired, I could answer that.

Actually, I'm supposed to know that even while drunk ... lemme think.

@FEichinger It's why I'm primarily a Linux user :)

10:33 PM

I mostly can't remember if iEEE 108.whatever is level 1 or level 2

same with Ethernet frames

But I do have to think, even if wifi is 1-2 while networking tends to be 3-5, why do we actually need to separate them from each other at the tag level?

@badp Then just go with this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model

the MAC stuff is what's throwing me off

@badp Basically, you got it pretty wrong.

I mean, I can see that the logical divide exists, it certainly does. But do we need it? Does it help us to narrow down in that fashion?

10:34 PM

@GraceNote They're completely different issues that you can have wifi or not, NAT or not

I don't see the usefulness of putting them all in the same bucket

Might as well merge directly into technical-issues

(and then wipe that tag because it's too broad to be useful.)

I think it's a pretty simple and reasonable splitting point.

Mmkay.

@FEichinger Dude, it says I was right :P just wifi does both levels 1 and 2

user43095

Yay, the Reddit hat

From my perspective, it's all about getting online - the methodology isn't too important, but if the distinction feels specific enough to warrant it separated, then so is as it is.

@badp Wifi/Ethernet are in no way whatsoever the correct terms here >.<

10:37 PM

I was typing a really long answer to @badp 's question about OSI levels and then I died.

@GraceNote that's how it feels to me

@FEichinger that's nitpicking to my level of tiredness

if I tell somebody "iEEE 802.11e" they just spit in my face

1 is basically the signal itself. 2 is physical adressing (MAC adresses and the such). 3 is pathing (IP). 4 is for packet control and the such (TCP). The rest is meta stuff noone cares about anymore.

As a netadmin, I care :(

@FEichinger Ethernet frames are level 2 stuff afaik

...does wifi actually use mac addresses?

Q: Now where do I get my wood?

@badp Yes.

Grumpy Lazers

10:39 PM

0

Q: How much does death cost?

In Saints Row: The Third, having your health drop to 0 is called getting Smoked. The tool-tip said that I lose a bit of money to pay for my hospital bill. How much do I lose exactly?

saints-row-the-third

0

I just got Hearthfire for Skyrim and I was going to buy wood for my house when a blood dragon attacked me! I killed it but I had seen him bite and throw someone. That someone was the person I get the wood from! Now what?

skyrim

okay.

@badp Yer opinion is still an opinion. I was challenging the base premise instead of the justification, not really trying to force the issue one way or the other. More of a confidence approach, if that makes sense.

@badp Yes, very much in fact.

@FEichinger That's an argument for my thesis where level 2 isn't just about MAC

:P

@badp I said physical adressing. Which is exactly what 2 is. :P

10:40 PM

@FEichinger So where's Ethernet frames and wifi retransmissions in there? :P

@badp Back down on level 1, I believe.

@Coronus Level 1 is more about "the cable is made like this, can be long up to this, and you modulate signals like this."

Doesn't it get pushed back down the stack for transmission?

or in wifi's case, beacons and stuff to discover APs

Retransmission usually happens at layer 4

Unless, for example, it's happening during Wi-Fi's connection process

10:42 PM

Ethernet can also do retransmissions when both ends try and talk over each other right?

random backoff and the like

Why didn't I link this earlier? youtube.com/watch?v=reXS_e3fTAk

@badp In half-duplex, sometimes. If you design a half-duplex ethernet system in modern times then you should probably be burned at the stake.

I'm back to my web dev world. It's safe there.

@FEichinger that's @BenBrocka's clone obviously

> "My mother believed and my father believed that if I wanted to be president of the United States, I could be, I could be Vice President!"

Joe Biden.

user20683

10:45 PM

Achievement Get!

user20683

"Good Morning" in PvZ

At any rate, I'd put the ethernet frame itself on 3 or 4. It uses all lower levels, including its own, to get the message to the target.

So LinkedIn's internal messaging system can't cope with multiple Re: instances.

Also it changes case randomly

I'm going to bed. Good night, bridge!

> RE: Re: Re: Join my network on LinkedIn

Bizarre

10:46 PM

G'nite.

You could definitely make a case for it being on 2, as it usually has no IP data as part of its own definition.

@NightExcessive nite

@FEichinger Ethernet frames are layer 2.

@FEichinger wat?!

Also people who stalk you on LinkedIn are weird, even for stalkers.

10:47 PM

Ethernet frames are layer 2 below MAC which is also layer 2 but above, for the simple reason that wifi also uses MAC

and the choice of Ethernet or Wifi is layer 1 specific

Gaming Topics From Outside

@NightExcessive Yep. I was talking about the Wifi part here. Less alcohol for me.

3

Q: How to start freecell, installed from software center

Freecell Solitarire won't load on Ubuntu 13.04. In the software center it appears as Installed but doesn't appear in Search. Uninstalling and reinstalling did not help. As a workaround, would it be possible to start FreeCell from Terminal and then make a shortcut on it to my desktop. What com...

command-line software-center 13.04 games

user43095

Nerd Talk Get

Obviously where level 2 is crowded, levels 5 and 6 are just wishful thinking

user43095

@fredley Have you stopped watching My Little Pony Friendship is Magic?

10:49 PM

@jeffreylin_ N...no

NO YOU WILL NOT DERAIL THIS AWESOME CONVERSATION WITH PONIES

Wasn't there a more pragmatic stack system where level 5 was just application?

I WANT TO GO TO SLEEP BUT YOU PEOPLE KEEP TALKING ABOUT THINGS THAT I DO FOR A LIVING AND IT MAKES ME WANT TO WATCH

user43095

or is it just informal talk?

My caps lock key loves me.

2

user43095

10:50 PM

@NightExcessive Check out the chat transcript tomorrow morning.

@NightExcessive It ip routes all its love to your finger interfaces

@badp As I said, noone cares about 5+ :P

user43095

@BADP LIKE THIS?

@FEichinger well 7 is pretty important, having to pick up the slack

user43095

10:51 PM

@Ullallulloo lolz

@Ullallulloo whyyyyyyyyy

user43095

@NightExcessive That's what happens when you don't go to sleep.

:|

user43095

@Ullallulloo Quick! Spread it all around the interwebs.

breaks the interwebs

10:52 PM

@jeffreylin_ That's what happens when people talk for extended period of times about stuff you don't care about. like ponies.

user43095

Also, quick thing: Is Mario pronounced Mareoh or Marryoh?

@NightExcessive ssh NightExcessive@arqade.com 'sleep 28800'

user43095

@badp Once of these days someone will hack your account and change your profile picture to a pony.

►

I considered breaking the interwebs once. And then I realized that I'd probably get a summary execution by the interwebs.

user43095

10:53 PM

@Ullallulloo EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW‌WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

user43095

Slices off a piece of @NightExcessive's head to use as deli meats

@badp Well, unless you get into rather specific analysis, they all fulfill more or less the same purpose in terms of the connection itself: an end point. Anything that further happens within those layers is just meta stuff, as far as the network is concerned.

@FEichinger The idea was that we were supposed to get standard app-unaware session and security protocols

and either that was too complicated or too useless or not practical enough

@badp The web doesn't work well with pre-established ideas.

10:55 PM

@FEichinger HTTP could've really used a session protocol honestly

@badp But layer 5 and 6 protocols do exist and are in use

@NightExcessive You don't want to done goofed.

@NightExcessive I wasn't aware. Maybe in the world of dist software?

the fabulous world of so-called "middleware"

@badp An example of a layer 6 protocol would be something like TLS or SSL. SPDY would be an alright example of a layer 5 protocol.

@NightExcessive It's all just tubes at the end of the day.

10:57 PM

@NightExcessive it doesn't help that they're rather specific/specialized with HTTP though.

user43095

No, we're gonna talk about ponies.

@jeffreylin_ No, they're gonna talk about the thing I don't understand.

@badp SPDY is. TLS and SSL are proper examples of layer 6, though.

I actually don't know how much truth is in there

I'm gonna talk about talking.

user43095

10:57 PM

@Ullallulloo We cannot allow this to happen.

@NightExcessive Trying to think about non HTTP stuff that uses them. Maybe more proprietary "webby" stuff like iTunes?

@Ullallulloo So meta!

SSH uses its own "stuff" right?

@badp XMPP, IRC, more that I could think about if I weren't half-brain dead

@NightExcessive Fair enough.

10:58 PM

@badp Yeah. SSH uses its own layer 6 standard.

Thanks for the enlightenment.

I'll now leave you to your sleep and the unwashed masses to their fandoms

AHAHAHAHA JUST KIDDING LOCKING THE ROOM FOR EIGHT HOURS

2

I secretly starred that to push the screenshot of me down the list. Don't tell anyone, though.

2

9 mins ago, by jeffreylin_

@Ullallulloo Quick! Spread it all around the interwebs.

@NightExcessive what screenshot?

user43095

Well if you're locking the room the last picture must be a pony.

user43095

11:01 PM

THE LAST PICTURE WAS ALREADY A PONY

I think the screenshot needs to be pinned.

user43095

I second that.

I divide that by two.

@LessPop_MoreFizz I trust you

11:01 PM

I multiply by 1

user43095

@fredley You suck.

@jeffreylin_ At least I'm secure in my identity

Yawus

I divide by ze... oh wait, never mind.

user43095

I multiply by 29090342342790234241390420957340955734573953405730593057273059730957230573059732‌0573205723059723059723045972057340957205973409573405943.

Yawus

qwe?

user43095

11:02 PM

@Yawus DIVIDE bY ZERO ERROR. @OrigamiRobot KILL HIM!

I multiply by ...

fredley makes a Math joke, nobody gets it :-(

user43095

@fredley Haha, very funny...

Yawus

I got it. I just wasn't sure if I should say, "I see what you did there."

@fredley Math is hard.

11:03 PM

@fredley No, everyone sabotages it.

Lesson of the day: Math poisons everything.

user43095

Maths is meab to my brain

Wait what why am I being trusted?

@LessPop_MoreFizz Just do your thing. I trust that doing your thing will be doing the right thing, and that you won't stand up to the sirens of the wrong thing (see following message for an example)

user43095

@LessPop_MoreFizz BECAUSE YOU LOVE PONIES! SAY IT! SAY IT BEFORE @BADP KILLS YOUR BRAIN WITH TECHNOLOGIES

11:05 PM

poof

user43095

@badp MEABIE

Portal has a SteamPipe / Linux beta now

MBraedley

Okay, hockey time. Later all

@pow nice!

Which one, 1 or 2?

11:12 PM

@badp 1

Portal 2 wouldn't need a SteamPipe beta as it's already SteamPipe. Of course, it'd still need a Linux beta...

Also, CapCom needs to learn what people mean when they say they want a new MegaMan on the 3DS.

That isn't what they meant.

That doesn't make it any less awesome, however.

@FEichinger No, the fact that CapCom cancelled two (or was that three) MegaMan games does.

That's Capcom. Just gotta roll with it.

@Powerlord That's the old MegaMan anyway.

So, anyway, Valve is doing their damndest to screw up SourceMod on TF2.

11:19 PM

@Ullallulloo Old Megaman is best megaman. Either that or X.

SourceMod devs get to pick: Is SourceMod compatible with the mandatory SteamPipe update that happened one day before the SteamPipe rollout, the optional update yesterday, or the optional update today.

user20683

Is KotOR II worth owning?

@WorldEngineer Yes, if you get the mod.

user20683

@FEichinger it's windows only, I'll wait on it

@WorldEngineer Well, here's the thing ... Kotor II on its own is great, but glaringly unfinished. I really recommend only playing it with the restoration mod, if one hasn't played it yet.

user20683

11:26 PM

@FEichinger that much I know

KOTOR 3 is unnecessarily long, though.

user20683

as far as the unfinished bit

Ben Brocka

11:38 PM

@Powerlord Megaman ZX 3 on 3DS please :(

@GraceNote there's a Tsundere blue idea chip! I will make a game with it and call it Super Noire Sisters