The Bridge - 2011-09-01 (page 3 of 5)

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5:02 PM

very cool.

Most anti-climatic thing ever.

I had fired all my weapons on him, shotgun, laser rifle, rocket launcher

Then after all my ammo was finished, in my dying breath, I combined a gas grenade with a mine template and primed the mine. The gas killed him.

lol nice.. what if you were non lethal stealth :?

thats what I am

Boss fights don't count.

oh I know I mean weapon wise

all I have is tranq/stungun/peps

The more non-lethal stealth you are, the more ammo you have.

5:06 PM

@Oak I know, I want to see us create an ad for it like we did for ComicCon. But it sounds like Brett has some announcements about the future of the program coming soon.

That makes me nervous, man. WHAT IF IT NO LONGER WORKS OUT?!

@Mana I have to say that I think that program has some really good results

@bwarner We're probably going to cut down the frequency and turn more attention to bigger titles.

I think the switch from 10 to 4 people per week was a good idea.

@GraceNote That makes sense.

Mostly, y'know, so we don't blow the entire budget to pieces so quickly.

5:10 PM

I'd still like to see us putting some of that venture capital goodness towards pulling users in from other gaming sites.

FallenAngelEyes

@GraceNote 'tis just a shame people likely won't get a shot at the non-AAA stuff then

@FallenAngelEyes Well, on the one hand, the ultimate goal isn't really for the people who are already here, but to get traffic from outside.

Hmm, looks like Diablo 3 beta starts this month

at least, in a limited form

FallenAngelEyes

@GraceNote Yeah, but I mean exposure for those lesser known titles and pulling people out of their insular communities they usually go to for those things

Somehow I don't really see any angle for us to get in, though :(

5:12 PM

@GraceNote I thought it was mostly meant to ensure coverage on-site for new titles ASAP.

@ArdaXi Which, in doing so, provides aforementioned traffic from outside.

@Oak You don't think we can get Brett to spring for some keys on Ebay? =)

@FallenAngelEyes I'd like to see more of that, too, but alas.

FallenAngelEyes

Ah well

Hey, did any noteworthy game come out between July 24th and August 1st?

5:15 PM

@Mana Depends, do you consider The Baconing to be noteworthy?

@Powerlord That's coming out now, not last month, right?

@bwarner Came out Tuesday.

@bwarner we do have around a million views for SC2 questions, maybe that's worth something...

Or at least it did in North America.

vgreleases.com/ReleaseDates/All-7-2011.aspx?OrderBy=sortdate

El Shaddai, Catherine, From Dust, Chantelise

5:17 PM

@bwarner I thought Catherine and Chantelise were already out.

Mana only asked about the past week, not the past month...

@Powerlord Mana's question asked about July 24th to August 1st. That would be one month ago

Oh, whoops.

PSYDUUUUUCK

I was thinking he said August 24th through September 1st.

5:21 PM

GAH

Just lost two KoTH rounds in a row at 0 seconds to 0 seconds

sucks so much

@Oak I want that beta so much lol

In all seriousness, we'd probably draw more traffic by having some regulars be in the Diablo 3 beta than we would from the last couple promotional grants combined.

also

user image

@Rapida I hear you. But looks like it's only going to be distributed to the biggest fan sites

why is Pyro driving a F1 car?

5:23 PM

Woah, I just downed two bottles of vodka. Sooo blurry.

@bwarner Keep prodding Brett, see what could happen, I say.

user30

@Arda lol.

But it makes for kind of an unfair situation, where only a few select people are able to ask/answer questions and reap all the benefits therein.

@bwarner the site as a whole benefits

besides who says they're the only two people in here on the beta?

@bwarner yes, it will translate for traffic

5:23 PM

that said it depends on the terms

And will draw other beta users, who might end up being valuable members

@bwarner Besides, it's not like that's completely different from how the site normally functions with non-popular games

@Mana Hey! I got a bronze badge for Minecraft without actually owning it!

lol

@Mana Sure, but non-popular games don't generate that much rep, where Diablo 3 has the potential to generate LOTS of rep

5:25 PM

@badp you don't own minecraft?

(I didn't pirate it. Notch gave a version of the game away when the auth servers went down. He called it a 'free weekend'...)

@Oak Agreed, I'm definitely for it. Just trying to anticipate the arguments against

True, true. Still, there's going to be a lot of potential traffic during the D3 beta.

@Oak At some point, Fosco gifted it to me.

That was after the badge though.

There's also the issue that buying beta keys isn't strictly legal, which makes it kind of difficult if we aren't given them by Blizzard

5:26 PM

Now lay down the pitchfork.

@Mana the problem though, assuming we don't get beta keys (which is pretty definite), we're unlikely to draw any beta users because they are already inside a strong D3 community

user30

c'mon tests

Oh man.

@Oak Yah, we're not going to pull users away from DiabloFans and their daily coverage of the beta. But do we have to? Their site is great for putting out information, but it still sucks for getting questions answered.

I'm now the proud owner of the two most useless TF2 items: the Mantreads and the Market Gardener.

Also, the bazaar bargain is pretty useless in my hands.

5:28 PM

@badp I don't see Crit-a-Cola as one of those two...

user30

y u no mock?!

@Powerlord I have that too though.

I think everyone on the site that owns a Blizzard game should signup for a beta key, and then whoever gets a key should gift it to the users with the higest Diablo 2 rep.

;-)

Pain Train is arguably the most useless melee weapon.

@bwarner Hold on a second while I check my diablo 2 rep, and I may agree

Yep I'm good with it

5:30 PM

First origin question!

user30

@Oak great...

0

Q: Double click executable file and nothing happens

I'm trying to install a game for Linux called Myth 2. Autorun doesn't run when I insert the CD. When I double-click or right-click and the select "Open" on the Setup file, a box appears saying that it's an executable file, and what I want to do. I click on "Run", but nothing happens after that. I...

executable game

@Powerlord What?

+1 to capture rate is awesome.

@badp and the 10% bullet vulnerability sucks.

so it's balanced, that doesn't make it useless

I still think it's better than the shovel

5:38 PM

1

Q: BFBC2 "Unable to login" when entering serial number

So I installed this "Origin" crap, bought, downloaded and installed Battlefield: Bad Company 2. Now, when I launch the game and login with the same account I use to buy it in Origin, I'm asked to enter my serial number, which I do, but after hitting the submit button I get the "Unable to login" ...

bad-company-2 battlefield origin

2x cap rate doesn't make that much of a difference, but it makes you more vulnerable to Sentries, Engineers, Scouts, Heavies, Snipers, and Spies (using guns).

lol, from the Origin FAQ

Q: What happens if EA goes out of business?
A: Origin is powered by EA, the leading publisher of the world's best games, and we're not going away anytime soon.

Actually, I think one of Origin's biggest selling point is that, as opposed to Steam, you don't need the client to be running to play games

You just need it to download them

Now that's a satisfying proposition

@Oak Yeah? If you don't download anything in two years your account goes poof.

@Oak That would be Impulse's biggest selling point.

5:40 PM

(AFAIK)

You know, the one owned by the other evil corporation, GameStop.

user30

baaaaah

@badp no, if you don't join Origin in 2 years, your old, pre-origin EA-download-manager account goes poof

Though, to be honest, I just read a little about it, don't have it installed myself

And I love Steam

But any competition is good

And right now there's no real competition to Steam

The two years thing was a massive over-reaction to people misreading the TOS

As long as we don't get too many exclusive games, I'm all for more distribution platforms

Exclusives are a pain, though :(

5:43 PM

@Oak and yet, there are a lot of other download services for games. Games for Windows Live (Microsoft), Impulse (GameStop), and now Origin (EA). Why would Origin be any more popular than the other two?

@Powerlord I don't know, but maybe they will

And then there will be competition :)

That's not even counting certain other ones like Good Old Games.

btw their games are so popular that if they do take the exclusive approach, it might just work

And GOG had cookies

@Powerlord to remind you, the only reason why Steam worked, at the beginning, was that it was required for the hugely-anticipated Half-Life 2

It wouldn't have gotten anywhere without this requirement

5:45 PM

@Oak Funny you should say that. My Steam account is older than HL2.

@Powerlord yours, maybe

But in general?

@Oak And while we're at it, GfWL is required for various Rockstar games, like GTA4.

No way it could have succeeded otherwise

and that hasn't taken off.

@Powerlord I have GTA4 and don't recall anything about GfWL

user30

5:46 PM

@Powerlord because it's crap

Oh wait, you're right, it auto-logged-in based on something I did with an older game

@Mana Well, there's always the EA policy of shutting down online servers after 18 months. I wonder what little will remain of titles such as Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit afterwards. Still, this is not relevant.

That was annoying

Batman, maybe

But it was all through Steam games, I didn't have to use any other store

I tried getting a demo off GfWL. The download couldn't be paused or resumed. I wiped it before it was too late

Also, something makes me think that NFS:Run is going to be Origin only, but I dunno why I would think that

user30

woop, tests passing

6:01 PM

@RonanForman I don't think the cartoonist knows how babies are made

Is it wrong to ask a question that I already know the answer to, with the purpose of pointing out a cool feature?

is battlefield being misused?

@Rapida Nope.

@badp has done it before.

It's usually bad manner to answer it extremely quickly

Ya, I wouldn't answer for a couple days at best

6:05 PM

If I know the answer I typically do the legwork and provide both the question and the answer

However, I start typing the answer only after I'm done submitting the question :)

@badp That is considered bad form.

I consider it deduplication of effort

I know.

You're wrong.

write a blog post

Blog posts take days to go through the queue.

It's not like I haven't written blog posts.

Also blog posts don't allow others to write their own answer.

Just because I provide my own answer, it doesn't mean I'm not going to accept somebody else's.

6:07 PM

@badp Posting your own answer immediately discourages it. A lot.

By all means, post a question you know the answer to.

@ArdaXi If you have nothing to add then yes.

But allow for longer than 5 seconds to let someone else answer it.

2 mins ago, by badp

However, I start typing the answer only after I'm done submitting the question :)

I have had questions like this where I had something to add.

I don't type answers in 5 seconds, or 5 minutes

6:08 PM

But I figured "oh, he answered it himself, not going to bother"

11

A: What combination of TF2 store items totals exactly $5/5€?

Here's one such combination for us Europeans: 2× 0.39€ item (e.g. kritzkrieg and backburner) 1× 0.74€ item (e.g. a map stamp, comes with free hat!) 1× 1.49€ item (e.g. the pyro glove hat) 1× 1.99€ item (e.g. a key) Total: € 5.00 precisely for three hats, a key and a couple oddities.

Posted a question, found an answer 10 minutes later, shared it and accepted Powerlord's answer.

5 answers, too.

Well, yes, if your answer is inherently flawed, I can imagine that happening.

But if it is merely incomplete, then the chances of that are much more slim.

My answer is technically correct. The best kind of correct.™

Perhaps you mean, my question is flawed

@badp Both.

or, my answer is incomplete

6:11 PM

Which merely happened because the author of the question answered it.

The answer suffers the same problems the question has.

@ArdaXi Is the sum exactly €5 yes or no? Then it's the correct answer to the question.

@badp So it's just a bad example.

I was talking more along the lines of this.

Regardless, that's my idea of being fair to the community

8

Q: How do you turn on "fake fullscreen" in TF2 and other Source games?

I'm sure Arda mentioned this in chat, and it was mentioned in the site too, but for the life of me I wasted 15 minutes trying to get back into TF2 after alt-tabbing out, then wasted 15 minutes trying to find the relevant piece of information again. So I'll ask: how do you turn "fake fullscreen" ...

source-engine fullscreen

Yeah, see, I was young and uncertain and made the answer CW needlessly

6:14 PM

Which you answered within 1 minute.

@badp u bad mannar :(

That answer took 1 minute to write. shrugs

Would've taken somebody else exactly as much time.

@badp Which is why your rule of starting to write the answer as soon as you've posted the question is flawed.

Figured I'd put the extra legwork myself.

Q: How do you kill someone in CS? A: BUY AN AWP NOOB

can I make QAs like that? :P

6:15 PM

@badp We've had a discussion about that question before. I still have a better answer to it.

Is it bad that I'm sitting at my new answer refreshing....and refreshing....and refreshing......?

@John yes. Let it go.

OR

@NickT If you asked this question and you gave this answer and the question didn't get closed and/or you didn't get a different, better answer, then I'd be pretty sad.

At least install some method of pushing rep changes to you

Instead of you polling for them :)

@Oak But what if I'm downvoted?

6:16 PM

There are 3rd-party tools and browser extensions available

@Oak Hmm, that's a good idea...

@John ask @badp, I think he uses one

Psh, everyone gets downvoted. I even just got downvoted for my answer on the rails shooter question.

Even the question Arda gave as an example of how self-answers discourage other people from answering has an upvoted addendum

@GraceNote Actually I just opened that question.

6:17 PM

I wish there was a way to sort users by the downvotes they received...

but I somehow doubt that's available in the dumps

@badp Which isn't exactly an answer.

@Oak Nope. Individual up/down votes are not exposed.

@ArdaXi It's 90% there. It just needs to copy paste my bit.

@badp Nothing in that answer answers the question.

If you would do that, only the bit you copied would answer the question.

Actually, rather than leaving that answer CW I'd rather do the copy paste myself and switch the accept

@badp ...

I give up.

6:19 PM

figuring that if I removed my own CW (per Grace's latest blog post) then you'd get to cry 'mod abuse' for that 90 rep

@badp Arda totally would.

@badp Allow me to quote someone very knowledgeable on this subject. "Well, it's not part of the answer, but that's what comments are for!"

0

Q: Is there a Bukkit plug-in that will prevent Ghasts from spawning?

We planned to create some big buildings in the Nether but to make it challenging on the earth too, we do enable enemies. However, we don't want to enable Ghasts as we find them very annoying since they destroy everything. Is there a Bukkit plug-in that allows me to disable ghasts?

minecraft bukkit

0

Q: How to connect an N64 to a an Apple Thunderbolt display?

I have an Apple Thunderbolt display and an N64. Is there any way I can hook these up together? I don't have a TV.

apple display n64

That is the most illogical thing I have ever seen you do @badp

Diplomacy.

6:22 PM

It seems like you're just trying to rebel against people calling you out for mod abuse.

@Oak I found one

What's going on @badp @Arda?

I'm just trying to avoid conflict of interest while solving a problem I noticed on the site.

Then I got disappointed when I realized that I can't set it faster than every 5 minutes. :(

Alright, I have a notifier installed. Someone go upvote me and see if it works. :P

@Mana I dug up an old question, @badp was afraid he'd be called out for mod abuse so instead of turning a CW answer unCW, he added his answer to another answer that didn't answer the question and should thus have otherwise be converted to a comment.

6:25 PM

@Mana Arda pointed me to a question I'd self answered. My self answer has CW; that's a broken window because answers that don't need collaborative editing shouldn't be CW'ed. Instead of removing CW, which would grant me 90 reputation from upvotes, I took the non-answer addendum that was posted, merged the two answers, deleted mine and gave him the accept. One stone, two birds.

If the answer would've been somebody else's, I'd have just left him the surprise reputation.

So I was right then.

@ArdaXi CW answer, not question

@badp Sorry.

So yes, I'm careful about avoiding conflict of interest.

If you think that's a defect...

@badp Commendable resolution.

6:27 PM

shrug

@badp I do.

You're over-compensating.

Question - is this one of those CW answers that was already stated that we don't want to de-convert, from our last Meta thread?

@GraceNote I don't think it was listed

5

Q: Community Wiki Review - Reverting Some Of Our Old Answers

As pointed out by badp, we now have the ability as moderators to revert Community Wiki posts! We won't do this often (in essence, it needs to be convincing to allow reversion), but right now we've got a backlog of "maybes" that I think can be addressed. I'm putting to review a selected bunch of...

discussion community-wiki

Link, then, to the answer in question?

gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/18029/…

6:30 PM

@badp I think it's a defect to apply a different standard to yourself than you do to others.

You might've done the query with the data explorer, so that one question was too fresh for you to catch it

I wish there was a way I could get Frozen Synapse on my non-steam computer without having to buy it again.

Oh, that one we were just talking about.

@badp Psh, I do everything by hand

@GraceNote You went through every single question?

You just acted on that one just now because when I last looked I didn't see that answer being deleted.

@badp wiki:1

6:31 PM

Good point

@GraceNote Yep, see above (and the post history)

Then just sift through all the non-rec, non-ident answers and see which ones were worth it.

@ArdaXi And now I finally understand the context of this

Since that was not "Self-answering is the most illogical[...]", but that the whole delmerge was, aye?

Yeah

@ArdaXi If I couldn't have fixed this myself, I'd have raised a flag for other moderators to look at. shrug

@Yi Jiang Lol...

@GraceNote Yes.

Hm...

6:34 PM

@badp That answer should've been converted to a comment rather than promoted to a real answer.

@ArdaXi Again, I decided to put in the legwork myself, giving up on 90 reputation.

The reason you didn't is because the only other option would be to unCW your own answer.

Wait, I only just got the Pundit badge now?

@badp You think it's commendable to give up on that reputation, but the rep involved is irrelevant.

Trying to avoid the parallel of this discussion where I'm blamed for gifting myself reputation

6:35 PM

@GnomeSliceツ You don't comment nearly as often as you post.

@badp See, so you are over-compensating just because you are afraid of people calling you out for mod abuse.

@ArdaXi I think it's the solution that makes the most happy

@badp If you truly wanted to fix it, you could've deleted your answer and posted a new one.

@ArdaXi Yes, I don't want to have another meta thread about people angry at me

@ArdaXi That wouldn't fix anything.

@badp Then your little trick just now didn't 'fix anything' either.

6:36 PM

@GraceNote I thought I commented MORE often...

Because what you're trying to fix is the CW.

I just find it happy that you're angry at my attempts to not make anybody angry

@GnomeSliceツ Here in chat, maybe, but not all that often in the Q&A site

I guess it did work then!

@badp I'm not angry with you, I'm saying your fear of making people angry is affecting your moderation.

6:37 PM

Well, CW has gone downhill since the days of WB and UPN.

In a few corner cases it does. I'm not a one man team.

How can I see how many comments I've posted?

I do what I can, and if I can I often try and do.

@GnomeSliceツ Profile, Activity, Comments. Then brute force counting.

@GraceNote Gah, no way I'm counting this.

6:38 PM

You could also use Data Explorer but that'd require you to know SQL

@badp No you're not, you're doing whatever you think won't reflect on your negatively.

0

Q: Can I play Assassin's Creed 2 or use Ubisoft's Uplay offline?

Late last night (around midnight EDT), I tried to play Assassin's Creed 2 on the PC via Steam. I was unable to even get past the Uplay login screen because Ubisoft's service was down. Not only that but their entire website was down including support. Service was restored eventually, and things lo...

assassins-creed-2

I guess I could do a Ctrl+F in my browser on each page for "comment" and add up the page totals.

It's 30 per page

Actually, it looks like it's 30 comments per page..

6:40 PM

So, at maximum, you have 360 comments.

@GraceNote Dang, ninja'd.

@GraceNote That's far more than my question+answer total.

@GnomeSliceツ Yeah, but not every comment is important. Some are exchanges on the aforementioned questions and answers which are used for clarity, not to get votes.

@GraceNote Well... see, remember who you're talking to, here.

@GnomeSliceツ Yeah. No one pays attention to what you say, remember?

@GraceNote Well, I suppose that would account for it.

6:42 PM

(I'm sorry if that came off extra-harsh or anything, but you totally walked into that one)

@GraceNote You'd think I'd have learned to see those coming by now. :P

@GnomeSliceツ It's like that guy who walks into a bar.

2

Oh dear, it seems the entirety of the support staff at my college has gone on strike.

@GraceNote I always felt a special kinship with that guy.

Although I don't drink.

Then you've got a kinship with me!

If we were the drinking types, we would totally have to grab a drink together. Except our kinship is that we don't drink, which means, alas, we are fated never to meet.

user30

couple of shots of tequila never hurt anyone

user30

6:46 PM

anyway, you could get a coffee instead

FallenAngelEyes

@GraceNote I really don't understand why

@ThomasMcDonald I can imagine there's at least one gun for hire out there nicknamed Tequila that would disagree.

@GraceNote ...People only ever meet in bars?

...Maybe where you come from...

@FallenAngelEyes I've long since given up on comprehending my downvotes.

@GnomeSliceツ No, we meet for a lot of reasons over here. My strength is in meeting and knowing people. That's how I have gotten where I am now.

@GraceNote Maybe the downvoter gave up on comprehending your answer?

@GraceNote I'm terrible at both of those things.

6:49 PM

@GnomeSliceツ Wouldn't be the first time, and I do know Pop didn't understand one of mine once.

@GnomeSliceツ Well, I know a guy who could help you with that. Except he could possibly end your existence, too.

user30

oh yeah, that reminds me

People are cool.

@GraceNote Uh. That sounds possibly unideal.

user30

I need to write a html -> markdown converter

@GnomeSliceツ It is very unideal.

6:51 PM

I really do need to work on my people skills.

0

Q: Can I get Frozen Synapse on my non-Steam computer without having to buy it again?

I recently received a Steam gift activation for Frozen Synapse. It downloaded without any issues, and I registered my account to be able to play the game online. However, I have another computer, that doesn't have Steam on it, and I don't intend to install Steam on it, at least not in the fores...

steam frozen-synapse

@GnomeSlice Thankfully, you're friends with one of the best people talkers.

@Fallen What's a good poster size?

FallenAngelEyes

@GraceNote For a Gaming.SE one?

@Mana ...'People Talkers'?

@GnomeSlice Quite the thing, 'innit?

6:53 PM

For a Stack Exchange site in general, but asking you since you had (unfortunately had...) plans with posters before.

@GraceNote 700x1000mm?

@GnomeSliceツ Even if I like metric scale, the designer lives in New York.

CANADA POWER

But if that's a good size, I'll forward it.

US standard is [not] 20x30

FallenAngelEyes

6:54 PM

@GraceNote Well, for ease of use and handing out, A4 would probably be cheap.

Wait, no it's not, I'm dumb.

A4 being...?

Us Standard is 27x41

FallenAngelEyes

I'd say A3 would be a good size on average for something larger than A4 to stand out and still not be obnoxious

But I think that's for like a full-size poster.

FallenAngelEyes

6:55 PM

{| class="wikitable" style="float:right; margin-left: 0.5em; text-align: center;" |+ ISO 269 sizes(mm × mm) |- !colspan="2"| C Series |- | C0 || 917 × 1297 |- | C1 || 648 × 917 |- | C2 || 458 × 648 |- | C3 || 324 × 458 |- | C4 || 229 × 324 |- | C5 || 162 × 229 |- | C6 || 114 × 162 |- | C7/6 || 81 × 162 |- | C7 || 81 × 114 |- | C8 || 57 × 81 |- | C9 || 40 × 57 |- | C10 || 28 × 40 |- | DLE || 110 × 220 |} {| class="wikitable" style="float:right; margin-left: 0.5em; text-align: center;" |+ ISO 216 sizes(mm × mm) |- !colspan="2"| B Series |- | B0 || 1000 × 1414 |- | B1 || 707 × 1000 |- | B...

A4 is very very close to the standard letter size in the US of 11"x8.5"

Sigh

@Gracenote, we're talking this sort of poster, right?

user image

@GnomeSliceツ I don't think we have nearly enough verbiage to take up that space

1

Q: BFBC2 "Unable to login" when entering serial number

So I installed this "Origin" crap, bought, downloaded and installed Battlefield: Bad Company 2. Now, when I launch the game and login with the same account I use to buy it in Origin, I'm asked to enter my serial number, which I do, but after hitting the submit button I get the "Unable to login" ...

bad-company-2 battlefield origin

What should we do with this question?

user30

@GnomeSlice Going on that tour, naaah-naaah.

6:57 PM

Cupcake asked, I pointed him to support, he commented that something support told him to do fixed it and then he accepted my answer.

@badp I think we should send witches to deal with it.

It's basically one of those "oh, okay, nevermind, I got it" situations SE was built against

Perhaps wait a few hours to give him time to contribute an answer, then delete?

@GraceNote I mean that style of poster. Like the kind you go around stapling to things, vs a full-sized poster.

@badp Did you tell him to post what his answer was and accept that?

@GraceNote Yes

6:58 PM

@ThomasMcDonald ಠ_ಠ

@GnomeSliceツ It's for distributing at a convention.

@Powerlord I have half a mind to erase the charge from the post.

(Namely, his brilliant opening calling Origin crap. Even if it is, no need to editorialize a support request on an unaligned site)

FallenAngelEyes

@GraceNote If it's for distribution, I'd probably go something around A3 size. That way it's bigger than just standard letter size, which people tend to gloss over and also not find impressive or interesting for a poster size.

@GraceNote Aha. ...Flyers, then?

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Transcript for

Sep '111

The Bridge

General Arqade Chat. We tried to leave once, but the door lock...

--gaming jin-fanclub lazers murder -politics -stars

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