/dev/chat - 2014-08-23

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12:44 AM

@derobert or you could just give up and do it on either Sarge or Sid :P

@slm ah.

@mikeserv on a technical level, yes

but it's not a conventional file, though, right?

(I assume we're talking about the separate socket namespaces)

I mean, it's not like you can ls it.

@mikeserv btw, you should star that link

because 1. I like being starred and 2. other people will probably be interested by it as well

here's a shortcut

2 days ago, by strugee

http://pappp.net/?p=969 is an absolute, 100% must-read

1:08 AM

@derobert \o/

GUYS GUYS GUYS GUYS

microsoft.com/enterprise/solutions/modernization/unix.aspx

aHAHAHAHAHAHA

@FaheemMitha WikiMedia has an Etherpad? cool!

reopen pls unix.stackexchange.com/q/89003/41104

@Braiam you want to switch them? so that the duped one is closed and that one is open?

because it is a dupe

@strugee nope, if you read slm's comment in the other question you notice there are differences in the objective of the asker

one ask where's the fork command in the fork bomb, the other ask what is a fork bomb. Related, yes, duplicates, nope

@Braiam yeah, I read slm's comment. I'll buy that.

nominated.

@strugee - are you sire I didn't already star it? Every time I click your link the little star thing on the right sure makes it look like it...

Guess I didn't. What's an etherpad?

1 hour later…

2:50 AM

how is possible that 5 users read an message totally wrong askubuntu.com/q/223237/169736

3:47 AM

ugh unix.stackexchange.com/q/2434/41104

I need 10k NAO!

4:45 AM

@Braiam why?

@slm wanted to check some stuff before voting

what did you want to know?

I can help

@Braiam - would you elaborate, please? I'm confused, too. Though I don't much like the questions everyone rushes to answer. Feels cheap.

that's an old Q, someones been going through and voting to close these as optioned based

@slm check whenever some questions have deleted answers... about 60 of them

4:48 AM

ah it's you

;)

@slm - awesome fork answer. I like the [s]leep bit - I love using that stuff. If you've still got your glob on the known you know the unknown is false.

I'm always uncomfortable closing these old ones

I'm just enforcing the saying in meta meta.unix.stackexchange.com/a/2659/41104

OK, closed

4:53 AM

anyone feels bad with applying the current policy retroactively about learning materials and tutorial requests?

mm... maybe as meta Q

That meta is all the reason we need.

What's the policy?

4 mins ago, by Braiam

I'm just enforcing the saying in meta http://meta.unix.stackexchange.com/a/2659/41104

+ linked questions

4 minutes? Geez man - you're taxing my attention span to the limits.

mm... 40 seconds here

btw, some food for through unix.stackexchange.com/search?q=is%3Aq+tutorial+closed%3Ano

5:00 AM

Yeah. That q/a is pretty right on. While the docs should be in every answer/question - they should be cited. This place is about content generation - not review.

@Patrick o/

@Braiam I'm not gonna close all those

I only gave a place where to start... not that you should close them ;)

1 hour later…

6:13 AM

@strugee Why?

1 hour later…

7:17 AM

@FaheemMitha cause Etherpad is cool!

GUESS WHO'S PACKING FOR DEBCONF '14

3

it's your favourite 15-year-old Unix geek

7:56 AM

@mikeserv github.com/ether/etherpad-lite/wiki/…

etherpad.org

it's a little like Google Docs

@strugee Sure, but who cares whether WM has it or not?

@strugee Hey, you don't use Debian. :-)

@FaheemMitha shrugs I dunno. they're cool. Etherpad is cool.

@FaheemMitha yes I do

on strugee.net I do

:P

@strugee Oh. I thought it was "stale"?

@FaheemMitha hush

it's a server

I like the idea of Etherpad too. And of course, it's free software, which is good by defn

8:05 AM

stale is good

Though written in Java. Not so cool.

@strugee Hmm

Still awake? Must be like 2am?

@FaheemMitha 1 AM

I'm putting together my schedule

although I'm probably gonna take a break now and pack

How expensive is Debconf these days? Is there an entry fee?

And where is it?

@FaheemMitha nope. it's free for individual attendance.

@FaheemMitha Portland. ~3 hours from here.

@strugee That's good, but what about accomodation? You find your own?

@strugee That's convenient. Anyway, have a nice time.

8:08 AM

@FaheemMitha no, it's on Portland State University campus, and they offer rooming in the PSU dorms

it's super nice

@FaheemMitha thank you!

@strugee For free?

this is the only year I'll get to go, since it's so close

@FaheemMitha no, the rooms cost money

@strugee Right

@strugee I figured. How much?

@FaheemMitha not sure

Semester not started yet? Hmm, guess it is still August.

8:09 AM

@FaheemMitha nope. it starts the day after I get back :(

Well, you certainly know how to enjoy yourself.

and, s/semester/trimester/

Taking any of your classmates along? :-)

@FaheemMitha nope

@strugee Oh

8:09 AM

most of them have never heard of Debian haha

@FaheemMitha most are semesters. my school's weird.

so how are you?

@strugee I actually meant PSU. If their dorms are occupied, Debian can't use them. :-)

@strugee Doing Ok. Too busy.

@FaheemMitha oooooohhh

hah

And I'm too slow... :-(

apparently not

@FaheemMitha ?

@FaheemMitha that's good

@strugee Too slow at doing stuff.

8:11 AM

@FaheemMitha ah

Everything takes too long.

I really need to try to be more organized.

I've heard good things about Portland. I think.

What is PSU like?

@FaheemMitha no idea

it's an adventure!

@strugee Adventures are good. But stay away from disease-infested Third World countries.

/me grins

Your parents seem very supportive. Good for them.

8:26 AM

@FaheemMitha yeah, it's nice

they barely let me come to DebConf though

since it's like 9 days

@strugee But they did eventually.

@FaheemMitha yup

@strugee So, when does it start?

@FaheemMitha tomorrow

I may miss a little of the social stuff at the beginning since I didn't drive up today

8:44 AM

@strugee Oh. Do you know any Debian people?

If I went to one of these, it would be quite strange, because I have corresponded with quite a lot of these people over the years, but have met nobody. Well, one person. In 2012 it was.

One DD.

9:17 AM

the aggressive mikeserv is back for good :( it was good while it lasted

I think you read me in chat, @mikeserv (I don't), so: why can't you just let other people be wrong?

I'm not even asking you to recognize that they're actually right. Just let it go.

9:51 AM

Geez man, that's a rather fair assessment.

Probably its mostly because I prefer to treat others as I like to be treated. I like correction. I don't intend aggression - but to share knowledge. Cause I like to know.

I am not at all opposed to discussing it - but you have to acknowledge the negative connotation of you should do what I say, but I won't bother even to hear you.

10:10 AM

@mikeserv Are you around?

1 hour later…

11:40 AM

@Gilles Wow, that's one popular cartoon.

12:14 PM

@FaheemMitha - yeah, lots of people out there linking me to it.

@mikeserv :-) If you want to me link you to it as well, just say the word.

pretty please?

i like how both of the slm say my name quotes are still on the star wall from the other day. he was testing some chat app but reading it looked dirty. it still does.

and strugee just did. i had a chuckle.

12:31 PM

@slm what's the default shell on RHEL? Isn't it bash?

@terdon yeah

@slm OK, I was wondering because of this Q:

2

Q: Echo difference between Ubuntu and Red Hat

I have mostly been experimenting with Ubuntu but recently was using a Red Hat Enterprise system and was surprised at a difference I found setting and displaying env variables. In Ubuntu I might have an interaction like this: acomber@mail:~$ export MY_VAR=i686-linux acomber@mail:~$ echo $MY_VAR ...

command-line bash environment-variables

12:57 PM

@slm echo $SHELL just prints the default system shell AFAIK, not the shell currently being used by the user which could be a different one.

Yeah that was a guess on my part

I found how to know, I'll edit that

echo $0

-bash

it doesn't matter anyway, all shells behave in the same way with what's shown there

@Gilles - that's what I thought too, any ideas for the difference then?

@terdon - you using 1 monitor or 2 w/ Cinnamon?

@slm PEBKAC

@slm 2.

1:03 PM

A user error is an error made by the human user of a complex system, usually a computer system, in interacting with it. Although the term is sometimes used by human-computer interaction practitioners, the more formal human error term is used in the context of human reliability. User error and related phrases such as PEBKAC ("Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair"), ID-10T error ("Idiot error") and other similar terms are also used as slang in technical circles with potentially derogatory meaning. This usage implies a lack of computer savvy, asserting that problems arising when using a device...

does it put both monitors to sleep on the laptop + 2nd monitor?

mine does not

both monitors stay on indefintely, if I turn the 2nd monitor off then it works

I'm getting these msgs but can't tell if they're related or not.

Aug 23 09:07:29 dufresne /etc/gdm/Xsession[31007]: (cinnamon:8542): CinnamonDesktop-WARNING **: Failed to set the background '/home/slm/Pictures/wallpaper/2k1_1600/fcitadel21600.jpg': GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.UnknownMethod: No such method 'SetBackgroundFile'

these occur in journalctl while the system has the screen saver up (the default one with the clock + a background image)

@terdon ^^^^

Hmmm, yes it puts both screens to sleep for me.

It sometimes fails to wake my laptop's screen up and I have to refresh with xrandr but they both sleep OK.

I've tried with a VGA and a DisplayPort screen and both work @slm.

Can it put the 2nd screen to sleep if its the only one that's active?

I'm guessing it's something to do with the screen hardware not being handled correctly by cinnamon.

I'm using hdmi, that's my current suspicion too, I'm gonna do a test w/ a diff. monitor

1:20 PM

Note that there are tools which will help you download all dependencies recursively, so you could get the stuff you need and all dependencies in one download. I don't recall how to do this offhand, but I think it has come up on this site. You could ask in the chat. — Faheem Mitha 9 secs ago

Anyone recall how this works?

I had a weird problem that only happened with a VGA screen once, so you might be hitting an HDMI-specific bug.

@FaheemMitha I think I had an answer on that, hang on.

@mikeserv Well, since you asked nicely, here you go...

What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!

Someone is wrong on THE NET!!! DAMMIT!!! Can't let them GET AWAY WITH THAT!!!

@terdon Ok, thanks.

@mikeserv Personally, I think life is too short to argue with strangers on the net.

Even arguing, period, is overrated. You could be doing something else more fun.

Unless one happens to be one of those strange people who enjoy argument for its own sake.

Ah, yes. @FaheemMitha, look at point 2 here. apt-offline can do this I think.

@terdon Ok, added a link to your answer as a comment. Thanks.

Here is what I wrote, in case you want to add anything.

@terdon kindly pointed me to unix.stackexchange.com/a/112358/4671 Maybe that will work for you? Bottom line - use apt-offline. — Faheem Mitha 1 min ago

I'm tempted to be a bad, mean person, and say this is OT. What does PCI have to do with unix? unix.stackexchange.com/q/151731/4671

1:36 PM

@FaheemMitha technically, “What are PCI devices? Does this relate to PCI bus (or PCI slot)?” makes it on-topic.

but it's a bit of a silly question — yes, PCI devices are devices connected via a PCI bus. Duh.

@Gilles How so? Does one understand PCI device here to mean device at the kernel level?

1 hour later…

2:58 PM

Another person complaining about Debian.

3.2.8 is only a year old (released 2014-02-19 according to download.mono-project.com/sources/mono), then 3.4 (2014-03-31), and the new release was just announced (2014-08-12), so I really don't think this is so unreasonable. Remember, Debian packagers are typically unpaid volunteers. It is possible to assist with packaging, and I am sure they would be glad of your help. — Faheem Mitha 4 mins ago

Personally, I'd stear clear of Mono.

@FaheemMitha removes wheezy tag, then read the post

@Braiam :-)

You have a little obsession there, don't you?

Actually, it does seem unsuitable here. He is not particularly talking about wheezy..

2 hours later…

4:38 PM

If I want to do a recursive grep for a string through a directory, what is the right syntax?

grep -r 3.2.8 *

doesn't seem to do it.

@FaheemMitha -R

@Braiam Would this pick up everything?

grep -R 3.2.8

@FaheemMitha current directory and childs

@Braiam ok. No *?

nope

4:46 PM

@Braiam Ok, thanks.

1 hour later…

6:05 PM

where's the post that explain what double dots are in the shell? unix.stackexchange.com/posts/151805/revisions

6:32 PM

@FaheemMitha them's fightin' words!

@mikeserv Heh

i might be one those odd ones, though.

I like argument. and I usually won't even enter into it with people I don't respect enough to accept their opinion.

Personally, I don't like to argue.

well, you're missing out... hehe

However, a phrase I sometimes do hear from people is "I'm not going to argue with you".

They're wrong. I'm not arguing with them. I'm trying to explain why they're wrong.

6:35 PM

haha.

@FaheemMitha how come? I have no opinion - or knowledge - on the subject and only vaguely associate it with ms .NET. But I'm curious.

@mikeserv It's a reimplementation of .NET.

See the WP page.

ok.

I don't really know much about it. Never used either it or .NET, but anything made by MS is best avoided.

Though some of their hardware branded stuff is (or was) quite good. I had a good MS branded mouse once. Possibly a keyboard. I forget. Mostly I use Logitech though.

@FaheemMitha seconded. a quarter century of compounded closed source is scary.

@mikeserv Agreed. Also, they are declared enemies of freedom. They are talking more softly these days, but some things don't change.

6:43 PM

wikipedia seems to be calling it an open standard

did you see the link derobert posted yesterday?

@mikeserv There are some patent issues. See the WP page. Also see the FSF page. Stallman has written about it.

@mikeserv No, I don't think so.

my bad it was strugee I guess.

18 hours ago, by strugee

GUYS GUYS GUYS GUYS

@Braiam Why? Not a dupe?

@mikeserv I think you want one down.

@FaheemMitha no, he asked two questions

Nice comedy effort by MS - microsoft.com/enterprise/solutions/modernization/…

MS is the enemy of software freedom, rather in the same way Philip Morris is the enemy of life. And for the same reason, profits.

@Braiam Can you break it down? Maybe edit it?

6:50 PM

@FaheemMitha check it...

@Braiam I did

then

Fine, voted to reopen. I think it is close, but the nominated dupe doesn't actually ask where the fork occurs. and slm explains it in the answer to that question.

"The definition of this function includes a call to itself (:) "

Hmm. Not familar with this. The : calls the function itself? Is this bash syntax?

I don't see why Alex gets to go to Debconf and I don't.

5

Life is so unfair.

7:35 PM

@FaheemMitha what reopen?

@Braiam See above.

48 mins ago, by Braiam

@FaheemMitha no, he asked two questions

@FaheemMitha what were you replying to?

I'm talking about this unix.stackexchange.com/posts/151805/revisions

@Braiam Follow the links.

18 hours ago, by Braiam

reopen pls http://unix.stackexchange.com/q/89003/41104

@FaheemMitha oh, yeah, it should be reopened

@Braiam Already voted

Currently at 4. One more needed. Anyone?

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