The Whiteboard

user114359

7:06 PM

Sweet, people are looking at my LinkedIn profile. Again.

@Snowman nah, those are robots. That's a mop, not real hair.

user114359

I really want to grab someone at LinkedIn and yell in their face about how I didn't care about the first 4,000 emails they sent telling me that, I don't care about this one, either.

Robert Harvey

@JimmyHoffa Some of these young emo programmers look like mops.

@JimmyHoffa Best thing about owning a house: your rent never goes up.

enderland

@RobertHarvey except taxes.

psr

7:24 PM

I argued so many times with my wife about not buying a house during the bubble. I spent vast amounts of marriage points getting us to buy after the peak, though not yet at the bottom. I heard the "renting is throwing money away" argument so many times - but the money we put into the stock market instead of house payments did much better.

And now I get all kinds of credit for saving us so much money. (Pause for laughter from those who are married.)

user20683

@psr you'd be better of buying grain futures or playing the currency market (not a great plan)

whatsisname

i find it easiest to just make this argument: a house is not an investment, it's a place to live

psr

@WorldEngineer Than what? Sorry, not following.

user20683

@psr than buying a house in a bubble

whatsisname

@RobertHarvey: your "rent" can go up when property taxes go up, or when something breaks and you have to deal with it

or a variety of other things that have the same essential effect

Jimmy Hoffa

7:27 PM

@enderland and ARMs.

psr

@WorldEngineer Oh, yeah. Well, probably. I might well go bankrupt attempting those things - I would be completely clueless.

user114359

@whatsisname I prefer to take a more simplistic approach. Having a place to live costs money, whether owning or renting (its cost). Owning provides a benefit, too, although there is risk. The principle payments increase your vestment in the house, but you can't cash it out right away, it takes a hit in fees when selling, and you might lose it all if the bank takes the house back.

Jimmy Hoffa

@psr he's just trying to sell you some grain, don't listen to him; he let his futures mature and he's trying to repackage them.

user114359

Owning vs. renting is a more complex equation than it appears at first, and must be tailored to a family's specific situation.

user114359

@JimmyHoffa I thought you said "futures manure" and I was thinking "well duh, that is what grain turns into eventually"

psr

7:30 PM

I just wouldn't do an ARM. I'm pretty confident I can't beat a bank in terms of accurately valuing inflation risks (they are really good hedging inflation risk, they just sell ARMS to amateurs).

@Snowman Oh, god, flashing back to all the spreadsheets...

enderland

@whatsisname this is exactly how I think about it, housing is an expense whether you rent/buy..

durron597

> We are working with a client to build their technology team in Portland. Our client is a rapidly growing hedge fund administrator, and is looking for experienced and talented developers at all levels to join their team in building and supporting back office, middle office and front-end systems for a broad range of high performance finance applications that serve leading hedge funds worldwide. Our client is seeking forward thinking individuals that are passionate and experienced at leveraging a combination of new and tried and true technologies to deliver state of the art solutions. The de…

I want to reply to her: don't send inMails that make developers want to punch you in the face

enderland

@durron597 "what do I get for winning buzzword bingo?"

3

user55340

fromscratchradio.com/show/mick-mountz

enderland

ok, this is probably a trivially dumb javascript/jquery question, but if I have a button that has the following attributes:

> <input id="rightsform:removeButton" type="submit" name="rightsform:removeButton" value="Remove" onclick="clearFormHiddenParams_rightsform(this.form.id);return (checkPrincipalLimits() && checkMultiClick());" class="inputButton">

what do I have to do with jquery to fake a button click?

> $("rightsform:removeButton").click();

does not seem to work

durron597

7:36 PM

you know what a hiring manager thinks when they see a resume / cv that isn't remotely tweaked to the person?

whatsisname

massively scalable application services?!?!?!? with agile methodologies? sounds so great, I'll work for free

durron597

> This person doesn't care about this job.

you know what a developer thinks when they see a job posting that isn't remotely tweaked to the person?

> This recruiter doesn't care about you or this job, at all.

I should write a Robert Harvey-esque faceslap response, but I won't because I'm too nice.

user114359

@durron597 I try to be nice on LinkedIn even when dealing with clueless recruiters who only know how to spew an impenetrable wall of buzzwords.

amon

@enderland colons in IDs look iffy. The $("rightsform:removeButton") selector makes no sense, since the :foo syntax is used for CSS pseudo-classes

durron597

@Snowman Plus, like, Amazon has the advantage of being a prestigious company in a decent city. Portland is the asscrack of the PNW and this company is apparently so boring or crappy they won't even tell me the name of it.

user55340

7:41 PM

My favorite linked in recruiter was the one who sent mail to every Java developer in Eau Claire including current and previous employees.

user114359

@durron597 I think they do that to avoid having candidates do an end-run-around and costing them their recruiting bonus/fee.

user114359

@MichaelT I have received LinkedIn mail from a recruiter for my own company before. I asked how much the position pays and cried. That was when I was on the way out from said employer because of... pay.

2

durron597

@MichaelT lol!

enderland

@Snowman that's hilarious

durron597

@Snowman Is this the one you just left?

enderland

7:43 PM

@amon hmmmm

user114359

@enderland my paycheck wasn't. This was right after the economy was improving and most employers were increasing wages after a few years of them being flat, but that employer was not doing so then wondering why all the talent left. @durron597 no this was a couple employers ago.

user41796

@Snowman I have almost never had a recruiter tell me the firm until they had already presented my resume to the client

enderland

@GlenH7 I've seen some for companies in the area, and the description gives it away entirely

user55340

Many of us sent back mail asking for a salary of 2x what we knew Employer^^ would pay (and they did hourly only) and probably wasted about 12h of recruiter time.

amon

74

Q: Handling colon in element ID with jQuery

We are not able to access the div element with ID "test: abc" in JS code using jQuery. <div id="test:abc"> $('#test:abc') It's working fine without colon. We do not have control on ID generation as it is auto generated in Trinidad sub forms because it attaches sub form ID with : to every ele...

jquery

user114359

7:45 PM

@GlenH7 I normally don't have a problem, but then again they look at my CV and know that I don't really need them and will have no problem finding employment on my own. My resume is pretty strong.

durron597

@Snowman If I was already on the way out anyway, I probably would have told the recruiter I was interested, then showed up to the interview after walking over from my desk in the other part of the building

enderland

@amon bam! duped

user114359

@MichaelT epic trolling...

user41796

@Snowman Most recruiters suck. I only keep around the ones that don't. :-)

user114359

@GlenH7 I can usually filter them out based on the initial email.

durron597

7:46 PM

@Snowman "I'm here about the opportunity that pays double what I'm currently making for the same work. I have an advantage over other applicants to this position because the amount of training I need is zero"

enderland

@amon thank you, I should have thought of that >.>

@durron597 "I can start immediately, like, in 30 seconds, and be trained up to speed in the same time!"

Jimmy Hoffa

@psr no one should do an ARM. All of the nobody should do that. Yuck.

enderland

I officially have joined the ranks of those who have created a basic javascript/jquery program, is there a support group?

durron597

@enderland nah, the support group is for PHP programmers only

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland what did you do?

user41796

7:50 PM

Apropos of nothing, anyone familiar with beyerdynamic headphones?

Jimmy Hoffa

How dirty do you feel on a scale of Project Manager to Recruiter?

enderland

@JimmyHoffa I have an app where permissions are maintaine dthrough a web interface, and you can't mass remove groups from items - so I'm going to have to go through and remove like... oh 600 or so items

and I have to click the "remove" button, then the group, then back... over... and... over... and some asshole made this without a keyboard shortcut :(

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland doing this just this once?

gnat

74

A: How can I tell people to get to the point?

You need to forge a new mission statement which establishes brevity as a core value for your organization. Then hold meetings to find stakeholders who will buy in to the innovative paradigm. Be sure to mark down action items for everyone, and track them so that they follow through with their new ...

enderland

@JimmyHoffa who konws

@JimmyHoffa I have something like... let's see, 15x15 on the dev system, 20x15 on both quality and prod systems

so... 225+600 times

durron597

7:55 PM

enderland

@gnat haha. I like my answer there too

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland $('#groupBoxesId option:first').attr('selected', 'selected'); $('#removeButtonsId').click(); <-- do until $('#groupBoxesId') reports no more items, or just 600 times

enderland

@JimmyHoffa except it's on like 15, 20, and 20 individual screens and I'm not removing 100% of them... but this is intriguing

maybe I should make this more involved :D

I can parse based on thename. hmmm

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland f12 in chrome to bring up dev tools and you can do it live right in the console.

enderland

@JimmyHoffa yeah I'm looking into this. I'm skeptical I'll be able to pull it off since I will have to parse the name (I'm not removing 100% of groups, just most of them)

Jimmy Hoffa

7:57 PM

I fiddle with webpages live in JS from the chrome console all the time

@enderland ...I wrote a JavaScript parser combinator library....just saying. :)

otherwise use regexp

yeah I know, that hurt my ears too.

enderland

ugh you are going to make me want to make this a fancy stupid little script! :P

gnat

@enderland yeah your answer wasn't bad either. And accepted one was good and practical. Though it's the rare case where fun answer won hands down over thorough and practical ones. I typically don't fall to crowd-appealing tricks but this was an exception I guess

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland it'd probably be quicker than clicking 600 times. Just take 5 minutes make it close enough and tweak it for each screen and be done.

enderland

no, can't be content saving 90% of the time, need to save 99% of the time

:P

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland must spend 20% of the time saving last 9% of time?

:)

according to the potato paradox 9% of the time is several times longer than the original time so you know, sounds like a good idea I s'pose

durron597

8:04 PM

Don't forget the time you spend finding the chart to look up what you save. And the time spent reading this reminder about the time spent. And the time trying to figure out if either of those actually make sense. Remember, every second counts toward your life total, including these right now.

enderland

yup

Ixrec

my personal experience is that any time I think I'm doing a task often enough to require automation, the odds are high I will no longer need to do it shortly after I set up any form of automation

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ixrec I should hope so; if that's not the case you didn't automate it right ;P

Ixrec

it's only worthwhile when optimizing for time in a much larger sense, e.g. writing a bunch of automated tests so that when refactoring I don't have to spend weeks on manual testing or emergency patching of prod crashes

@JimmyHoffa I mean the need to do it at all disappears and the automation effort is wasted

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ixrec prod crashes are of little or no consequence, pod crashes are the real killer.

Ixrec

8:09 PM

things let setting up a fancy vim macro for instance; whenever I do something like that the purpose of the macro invariably evaporates just after I get the muscle memory for it

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ixrec well of course, that's because you're using vim. :)

Ixrec

lol

user20683

@JimmyHoffa especially if you are working on Istvaan V

Jimmy Hoffa

@WorldEngineer he was the best of the early Moskvite oligarchs.

user20683

@JimmyHoffa Istvan is Hungarian

Jimmy Hoffa

8:13 PM

@WorldEngineer Oh right, I was thinking of Sputnik. I heard they had some Raos

enderland

lol @JimmyHoffa this actually changes the html of the table to be "selectedrow" vs "alternaterow"

user20683

@JimmyHoffa I'm thinking beatnik.

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland do .click() instead of .attr('bblabla')

perhaps. :)

enderland

I don't think I'm wizard enough for that yet

user55340

Btw, @durron597 make sure you get some comfortable warm clothes for Seattle. I'd suggest some flannel.

Jimmy Hoffa

8:15 PM

@WorldEngineer Yeah, Kerouac really put Rasputin in his place

durron597

@MichaelT plaid flannel pants and polka dotted flannel shirt work for you?

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT this isn't the 90s, it's all plaid yoga pants and shoulder piercings in Seattle these days

durron597

@JimmyHoffa surgically attached space heaters are all the rage

user55340

Flannel plaid yoga pants is a disturbing image.

durron597

@MichaelT lululemon #1 bestseller

user15026

8:17 PM

@MichaelT They sound really comfy to me

durron597

you know, i'm starting to have more trouble thinking of room regulars who DIDN'T get a new job in 2015

2

user55340

Lounge - yes. Tight yoga pants... Not really.

durron597

Myself, Ashley, Michael, enderland, Snowman, Robert Harvey, Jimmy Hoffa, Telastyn all have new jobs

enderland

glenh

I don't think at least?

Jimmy Hoffa

@durron597 it's all in how you put it - The Whiteboard increases your desirability to employers!

user55340

8:19 PM

There is still time for @WorldEngineer to escape.

Ixrec

@durron597 I haven't changed jobs

durron597

Glen, Thomas, World, Ixrec, gnat, psr, whatisname, Ampt, ratchet freak, amon all either have the same job or haven't brought it up

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ixrec yeah but you're a sentient mainframe. Some day someone will find out how they made you in the 70s, I'm just hoping you never find any DoD networks to play in.

enderland

I think ampt did, or did he get his current job a year ago?

durron597

I wasn't sure about Ampt.

Jimmy Hoffa

8:21 PM

@durron597 they're in rotation for next year. It's a cycle.

Ixrec

@JimmyHoffa a mainframe programming financial webapps? hmm...

user15026

@MichaelT If yoga pants are tight you're doing them wrong

Thomas Owens

@durron597 I've been with the same company since...July 2011. June 2009 if you ask HR, though.

My job has changed slightly, but it's just normal project transitions and promotions and stuff.

durron597

I know that at least two people on my list above are unhappy and have, at the very least, been looking.

user41796

@enderland Nope, still working the same gig as I have been for the last several years

user41796

8:22 PM

No real desire to leave either

durron597

I'm not sure @gnat has a job outside of trolling Community Managers on SE.

5

Thomas Owens

I'd always be up for talking to the right company, but I haven't been contacted by anyone who has anything close to what I have now.

And I'm not inclined to actively look, either.

Anway, time to go home.

Night, Programmers.

durron597

@ThomasOwens night-o

Jimmy Hoffa

It's a good year for the industry overall. There's murmurs of a bubble these days; who knows. We've seen consistent opportunity growth over the last few years. Not surprising there's been a good bit of transitions this year.

@durron597 you signed on the dotted line I presume? What has been the response today after all was said and done?

durron597

@JimmyHoffa Indeed I did

@JimmyHoffa They're handling it fairly well, no extreme overreactions

whatsisname

8:32 PM

im not planning on switching jobs any time soon

though part-time freelance gigs come and go on occasion

durron597

I had already told them I wanted to spend my next few weeks training the new guy, so the stuff I've been doing hasn't changed much.

enderland

@durron597 needs more drama. no one offered you $100k more? no one went out to drink away their sorrows?

Ampt

@durron597 1.5 Years at the current gig, actively looking for a new one :)

enderland

@Ampt did you look at all at the one I sent you, out of curiousity?

durron597

@enderland They did not try. I didn't present it in a way where there might be a chance for them to try.

user41796

8:34 PM

@Ampt hiring division hasn't managed to claw you back yet?

enderland

@durron597 ah, probably good

gnat

@durron597 I'm not sure Community Managers on SE have a job outside of trolling @gnat

4

durron597

If I had wanted to leave that door open I would have told them a long time ago

@gnat touche

@Ampt Send me your resume, I'll put it at the top of the stack at Amazon if you want

user41796

@durron597 You know there's a user story to the effect of "I want a ____ that maximizes @gnat's aggravation levels."

Ampt

@durron597 I've heard not great things about that place - are they true?

enderland

8:36 PM

One of my friends recently quit and got a new job, and the offers his soon-to-be-not-employer actually made him more annoyed by their counter offers

Ampt

@enderland I did, and while I appreciate it, the GF isn't interested in the locale

user41796

@Ampt he's in the kool-aid phase. Ask him again in a few months

enderland

@Ampt totally fair :)

durron597

@Ampt I promise to answer that question when I know the answer.

Ampt

@GlenH7 despite their best efforts

@durron597 Fair enough :)

@enderland as in, they made him worse offers as an F-U?

or?

user41796

8:38 PM

bummer

enderland

@Ampt no, like, "wait you're offering me this much more money and job flexibility only now? why not like 2 years ago? screw you" type

Ampt

@enderland and I quote "If we're moving further from our families, we have to at least go somewhere where it's fucking warm"

durron597

We're sorry to see you go, but if you decide to stay we'll drop your salary by 10% and take away a week of vacation

enderland

lol

Ampt

@enderland oh, yeah, that's totally how it works - we won't give you a raise until you're halfway out the door

and the worst part is that once you indicate that you're leaving, they all treat you differently until you're practically forced out

durron597

8:40 PM

I also didn't give them enough information to possibly make a reasonable counter

I said "I'm getting a large raise" vs "I'm going to be making X"

enderland

I'm nearly 100% sure my current employer wouldn't make a counter offer if I chose to leave

durron597

@enderland Enormous corporations have typically done so much market research that they know exactly how much you're worth and what they're willing to pay to compete

enderland

yeah, exactly, plus our system is so rigid that it'd be a big snafu if they could go around it

user41796

@enderland Current company has an explicit policy against making counter offers.

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt 1.5? eesh, how the time flies. Did you get 1.5 years worth out of it?

Ampt

8:46 PM

@JimmyHoffa depends - how are we measuring worth?

I figure I've been hanging around this place for just shy of 4 years now

user41796

cold. hard. cash.

Ampt

@GlenH7 oh yeah, then I definitely got my 1.5 years worth out of it

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt that you need to qualify it speaks for itself heh, at least the checks didn't bounce and you've been taken care of.

Ampt

@JimmyHoffa pretty much. I've got shit that I can put on my resume and make it "sound" good, despite the fact that it was pretty worthless

user41796

work experience, job transferable soft skills, and all that are just icing on the cake.

Ampt

8:49 PM

yeah, no checks ever bounced, and I've paid off a solid little chunk of debt

enderland

wooo debt-free-train!

Ampt

and I'm thinking the next job will pay even better - had some soft offers for 15-20k more than I'm making now

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland I prefer the debt-fruit-train, thankyouverymuch.

enderland

@Ampt wow, nice! you were making decent IIRC so that's sweet :D

Ampt

@enderland I have been very fortunate thus far in my career, yes :)

in no small part thanks to the knowledge I've gained here (but don't expect a check in the mail anytime soon)

Jimmy Hoffa

8:50 PM

@Ampt what?? You aren't paying us? Screw all of you guys!

Ampt

LOL!

the log off was the icing on the cake

@durron597 where in the country are you located and working for amazon?

enderland

@Ampt I'm pretty happy with my current pay too all things considered at this point

Ampt

if you don't mind me asking

durron597

@Ampt I am in Houston now but I am moving to Seattle in a few weeks

Ampt

See, I wouldn't mind going to seattle - one of my previous co-workers just started working at MSFT out there on their special projects division (lucky bastard)

user41796

8:52 PM

@Ampt We'd expect bottles of scotch, thank-you-very-much

Ampt

"But it rains too much!" - you know who

@GlenH7 duly noted

durron597

It doesn't rain too much, Seattle has national average level rain

It's just cloudy a lot.

user41796

Can we say "hops around much?"

enderland

too much hops? is that like drinking too much?

user41796

In this case, I'm thinking yeah, it's a bit much

durron597

9:00 PM

@GlenH7 circular file

user41796

Yeah, no kidding

Ampt

@GlenH7 that's what I'm trying to avoid... I'm only at 18 months here

user41796

We'd barely have trained the person and they'd be looking to move to AZ or something

enderland

@Ampt nearly 2 years is a relatively long time

user41796

@Ampt 2-3 hops early on is understandable. 7 - 8, not so much

user41796

9:02 PM

Hell, even a good quadrupel doesn't have that much hops in it

user41796

@enderland Most interviewers I chat with want to see 3 - 5 on a regular basis, with exceptions being okay.

user41796

It's all about getting a return on the investment.

user41796

And yes, the obvious answer is to decrease the technical learning curve so you get faster returns, but that's easier said than done.

enderland

@GlenH7 you guys will never hire someone from Silly Valley, ever :)

user41796

@enderland Nope, not likely

enderland

9:06 PM

lol

Jimmy Hoffa

@durron597 you are utterly selling yourself. You're measuring water level not time. The water volume isn't obscene, it's such a constant low-volume drizzle is what I've heard

user41796

@JimmyHoffa Let the man drink his kool-aid. All of us remember how nice it is to feel when a company is flirting with us and throwing money our way.

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 hey, beats the hell out of Houston.

user41796

exactly

Jimmy Hoffa

anyways, it's been sunny here all day (again, yeesh..) and it's time for me to go out from my sunny windowed office to a sunny drive home with nary a cloud in the sky...

(I pinged my boss again about getting that damn description, but it's like prying teeth..)

user41796

9:10 PM

Can you link to the question on Stack Overflow that you asked about this? I'm not finding it in your profile. — Robert Harvey 39 secs ago

user41796

^^^ Watch out! It's a trap!

Ampt

MWAHAHAH

the trap is set!

psr

@GlenH7 No big deal. I have an explicit policy against taking them.

user41796

Whereas I attempt to solve my current work woes through a little bit of retail therapy

user41796

I'm getting inconclusive feedback on how much more isolating they are past what I've already got.

durron597

9:36 PM

My document is 4.5 pages. Still not close to done. wheeeeeeeeeeeee

user41796

sounds like a bottle of something strong is in order

durron597

gotta run, later all

user114359

9:53 PM

@Snowman all i needed was to know how to do this in order to do something else but I see you are all talk and dont know how to do it thanks for nothing — ShadowKnight077 14 mins ago

user114359

I don't even know where to begin on this one.

user41796

@Snowman Click, click, flags as rude or offensive.

Ixrec

it's already past the point where any further discussion can hope to achieve anything

user114359

@GlenH7 I am not even sure that it is flagworthy. I am more confused than anything.

Ixrec

tbh Graviton kinda ruined it there; that first comment already said everything the OP needed to hear

user114359

9:55 PM

@Ixrec question is closed and will be deleted in short order, that is the only achievement we need at this point.

Ixrec

yep

user41796

@Snowman It's not even a complete code dump for debugging purposes. Just one to VTD and move on.

user114359

@GlenH7 if I had ~5.5k more rep I would. I have been lazy lately, I need to answer more questions so I can VTD as soon as they are put on hold.

user41796

Find some HNQs. Easy way to pick up 200 repz a day. :-)

Robert Harvey

10:31 PM

@Snowman BOOM.

user114359

@RobertHarvey and nothing of value was lost.

Jimmy Hoffa

10:55 PM

@durron597 ? What's "your document" ?

Robert Harvey

needz moar pages.

Jimmy Hoffa

engineers griping about documentation... shit, try working on ISO9001 software. I would write 10-20 pages of documentation for every piddly feature or piece of bug work I did. Documentation is easy.

psr

@JimmyHoffa Did all that documentation help you when you needed work with other people's stuff?

Robert Harvey

It didn't in my experience. Many software engineers aren't that good at writing documentation, and there's so much boilerplate to get through with ISO9001 that has little to do with helping me understand the software better. In addition, the ones that are well-written are not appreciated, so there isn't much motivation to make them better.

@psr Did you ever get your marriage points back?

user55340

Dell to buy EMC

user55340

11:10 PM

Back when I was at Netapp, Dell was a partner on solutions. When things got tight, there was a constant rumor going around that Dell was going to buy Netapp. Looks like it went a different way there.

psr

@RobertHarvey Well, she offered a really good variable rate but due to some unforeseen volatility in some of the currencies it's valued under I'm currently underwater, but since all currencies that aren't crony currencies are self correcting I expect that to turn around soon.

user55340

@GlenH7 if all contracts, not a flag. If FTE, thats a "huh"?

user55340

I had a recruiter ask about my three "hops" early on (about 4 months each) and I pointed out that this was all working for the same contracting company and they were moving me around to increase my resume worth for the next contract.

user55340

And the "2 months" job was a "paycheck bounced" That got an "oh"

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