The Whiteboard

user114359

8:00 PM

@MichaelT math.stackexchange.com ? There are several math sites

user55340

1

A: dice biased such that a 3 comes up twice as often as each other number?

Hint: Dice number | Relative Probability ------------+--------------------- 1 | 1 2 | 1 3 | 2 4 | 1 5 | 1 6 | 1 ------------+--------------------- Total | 7

user55340

3

A: How to make a perpendicular construction in 3 moves?

Hint:

user55340

2

A: Integral greater than $0$ implies the function greater than $0$?

Hint:${{{{{{{{{{{{{{{}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}$

user55340

1

A: Minimal Trigonometry

Hint:

user41796

Math: Where the >! markdown is the most frequently used decorator

Thomas Owens

8:03 PM

I'm half temped to flag all of them as NAA.

user55340

@ThomasOwens it's acceptable there apparently.

durron597

It's actually preferred

Thomas Owens

How does that meet the SE network guidelines?

Ixrec

man, meta feels very unproductive today

Thomas Owens

It doesn't.

durron597

8:04 PM

Math thinks of itself as a homework help site.

Ixrec

it almost feels like none of the CMs have ever actually visited this site, or even its meta

durron597

33

Q: Old questions with hint-only answers. Can we provide whole answers?

Summary I'm encouraging users to provide whole answers to sufficiently old questions that have only received hints thus far. I argue that the reasons to give hint-only answers are no longer (sufficiently) relevant after a period of time (e.g. 3 months). I encourage: Users who have given hint...

21

Q: Do hints belong in answers or comments?

If the OP doesn't indicate whether they'd prefer a hint, a sketch, or a full answer, and you'd like to leave just a hint, should it be an answer or a comment? Should one option be encouraged? If so, should the other option be flagged? There's been a lot of previous discussion on Meta concerning ...

discussion comment answers hint

user55340

Compare the answers and scores in

user55340

14

Q: $ \tan 1^\circ \cdot \tan 2^\circ \cdot \tan 3^\circ \cdots \tan 89^\circ$

How can I find the following product using elementary trigonometry? $$ \tan 1^\circ \cdot \tan 2^\circ \cdot \tan 3^\circ \cdots \tan 89^\circ.$$ I have tried using a substitution, but nothing has worked.

algebra-precalculus trigonometry products

durron597

8

Q: Answering questions with a hint

Scenario: someone asks: "Let such-and-such. How do I prove X?". I answer "Hint: because blah, blah, blah, all you have to prove is Y". Their response is to ask a new question: "Let such-and-such. How do I prove Y?". See Proving a property of a Logic Formal Language and Proving some property of ...

discussion closing hint

user55340

8:06 PM

So when Robert suggested math as a model, I was rather offended.

durron597

The prevailing philosophy on Math.SE is that giving people hints does a better job of helping people learn than giving them the answer.

user55340

But why should it remain open? Curation of existing content for questions that are off topic, primarily opinion, or too broad is most easily done when the question is closed. Mathematics has their own host of problems and hint we don't want to have answers like theirs. And every time we've had a big list type question (that the Apple.SE community has done well), its turned into holy wars and excessive comment threads here. For some reason, those people who read those questions are not as disciplined in answering and it puts a greater amount of community curation on us. — MichaelT 18 hours ago

enderland

@durron597 honestly though that is a great thing for SE as a whole - a community has decided to have their Q/A site be... different and SE the company doesn't seem to care

user41796

@MichaelT They at least get 50 close votes per day

Ixrec

comparing PSE to any other SE is almost automatically counterproductive

user55340

8:09 PM

Comparing any SE to any other is counterproductive.

enderland

@Ixrec not really, just ones that have different guiding philosophies of the regular uses

the same basic principles are true on many sites

Ixrec

@enderland I mean we have a unique one because we have the whole NPR mess, that still isn't gone

that whole meta thread just screams "we're talking past each other", and my best guess as to why is that Robert/Shog are trying to apply the general SE principles to us while conveniently forgetting about all the reasons we have unique problems the other SEs don't

enderland

@Ixrec I don't think they are though. they have, or at least robert, a different understanding of the scope of p.se

Robert Harvey

But keeping a bikeshed question open so it can get more answers and serve as a broken window isn't a policy anywhere on the network. It's that same old "why is this question closed" song and dance.

user20683

I have a different understanding of the scope but I bow to the community since I'm an elected official, not an autocrat.

Ixrec

8:12 PM

@enderland where does he say anything about site scope?

he's only talking about how to deal with popular questions that get abnormally good answers

Robert Harvey

You close them and not delete them. Why is that so hard to understand?

Ixrec

@RobertHarvey this, exactly this

enderland

@Ixrec robert's entire answer is basically, "this is a good question and good content"

user55340

... And completely forgets the trouble with popularity blog post.

enderland

@RobertHarvey no one in here will disagree with this... :)

Ixrec

8:13 PM

@enderland exactly, that's not a statement about site scope

durron597

@RobertHarvey Or, you could lock them.

Which no one seems to want to do. I have no idea why.

I don't understand why locking must imply controversy first. I know that's how they're currently used, but I don't agree with limiting their scope to that.

enderland

@Ixrec sure it is. he's saying, "this question is good enough for p.se standards and has good enough quality content that it should be open - not closed"

user41796

@RobertHarvey Shog's answer implies that a VTC is equivalent to a VTD, which is why I was trying to point out that context matters.

user55340

Locking isn't needed 90% of the time and makes a mess that retains distortions and prevents any future curation.

Ixrec

@durron597 when I do cleanup I regularly flag questions that should be closed but have an insanely high view count

user41796

8:15 PM

@WorldEngineer I had that problem on Engr late this past weekend. Had to walk away from the site and specifically tell myself it was up to the community to vote.

user55340

If you look at the past 19h of questions, I would hope a close is a delete.

durron597

What about a state that prevents deletion but allows edits from users above a certain rep threshold, maybe 5k

(much higher than normal edit threshold)

user55340

But that distorts the historical questions we review.

user41796

@MichaelT which is why it's unfair to lump a high-vote / high-view question in statistically with low quality, ought-to-be deleted garbage

user41796

There's lies, damn lies, and statistics.

user20683

8:16 PM

@GlenH7 I'm much more like Math in terms of my views on things.

user55340

@WorldEngineer I expect our answer quality to be much higher than maths.

user55340

Answer things fully, or not at all.

user41796

@WorldEngineer That's a direction I hope Engr doesn't go down. The noise drowns out the high quality questions that come through.

user55340

If it can't be answered fully, providing an endless stream of pointers and hints makes us no better than a forum.

user55340

At that point, Reddit provides better and more consistent quality.

user114359

8:22 PM

@durron597 I like the idea of a 10k lock. Can't delete the question, only 10k can edit. Answers and comments can be deleted. Voting is still allowed.

user55340

Given maths hint policy, reluctance to close, and difficulty with dups, Reddit would be a better solution for most users there - especially if there was additional gamified points.

user114359

So I guess the only restrictions are while locked, the question cannot be deleted and only high rep users can edit anything.

Robert Harvey

Locking is a blunt instrument. Locked questions cannot be maintained. Even the "canonical answer" lock requires a lot of massaging to get it to work right.

user55340

@Snowman I would add a restriction that you can't do it on a question you posted or have an answer in.

Ixrec

I'm not sure I understand the point of having additional lock tiers, or tbh any motivation for locking other than too many inbound links; if we actually had the drive to edit these questions and their answers into shape we would already be doing that, locking them (in addition to closing) isn't going to suddenly make us start doing that more often

user55340

8:24 PM

As there are some users who reopen / undelete every question they answer regardless of the quality of the question.

Ixrec

usually if I answer a question I abstain from any voting on it

it's so hard to tell the difference between a close-worthy and an answer-worthy question sometimes I simply can't trust myself not to be biased by that

user55340

(Btw, I love watching my question score vary between +14 and +10)

user114359

@Ixrec off-topic questions that have value and are worth keeping. We should be able to edit the question and its answers as new information becomes available over time.

Ixrec

@Snowman such as?

(like we always say on meta: need specific examples)

user114359

For example, maybe a question on Java is technically off-topic, and a few years later some new feature is added to the language which changes what is possible. I have seen a few here and on SO but I don't have any links handy

Ixrec

8:27 PM

I don't see how that would make an off-topic question become on-topic

Robert Harvey

@Ixrec Plenty of fodder here

user55340

programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/206149/…

user55340

Need to make that one a blog post.

user55340

Side bit - notice delete votes.

user55340

Off topic, but good answer.

user55340

8:29 PM

Problem: blogging is hard.

user114359

@Ixrec I did not say it would be on-topic, only that the answers have value worth keeping.

Ixrec

moving unanswerable but valuable content to blog posts does seem like a good idea, any idea why it was claimed in today's meta thread that it didn't work?

user55340

Look at the first blog posts.

user55340

See how many like it since.

user114359

@Ixrec Do you have any idea where this "blog" is? Do you have a link? Any way of getting from the main site to the blog?

user55340

8:31 PM

Problem: blogging is hard.

user114359

Or are you presented with a list of questions and an "ask" button instead?

Ixrec

@Snowman yep, this is the main problem with blogs, SE forgot to tell anyone they existed after they implemented them

user55340

@Snowman right next to the chat link in drop down.

user55340

Also on the all site list on SE n

Ixrec

@MichaelT that link is the ultimate example of hiding something in plain sight where no one will ever notice it

user114359

8:33 PM

@MichaelT Ah, I never knew that was there. I also see our most recent blog post is almost two years old.

user55340

There was a soapbox period of posts I start snoring after the first paragraph.

enderland

BLogging takes time, energy, and dedication

user55340

And people with a strong command of English.

Ixrec

what an appropriate time for a "please close me now" question to show up in the feed

user41796

@WaïlShudar - Presumably, you came to this chat room to get advice on your question. If you would please delete off your question on the main site, one of the mods can give you write access to this room.

enderland

8:36 PM

@MichaelT you mean like documentation?

Robert Harvey

Self-answered questions are a great way to "blog." They are subject to the usual vetting tools, and can sometimes get a pass that other questions won't, if the answer is good enough.

enderland

@WaïlShudar you should be able to talk now? I think

Ixrec

g2g now unfortunately

enderland

@GlenH7 you can do so too :P

user55340

@RobertHarvey my dfa types wouldn't be a good self answered question.

user55340

8:37 PM

Silly blue namers.

Robert Harvey

Tag Wiki, then.

user41796

@enderland Yep, I know. Was hoping to get the question on main deleted

Robert Harvey

what's a dfa type?

user41796

And I just added explicit write access to the room for @WaïlShudar

user55340

Even less tag wikiable for that one. Not a practical problem at all.

user55340

8:38 PM

My crazy implementation of a DFA in the Java type system.

user114359

@RobertHarvey he was implementing a DFA using a type system

user114359

@MichaelT Your next assignment is to create a DFA using C++ templates.

user55340

I wonder if I can do more in scala as its type system can implement a Turing machine.

user114359

Then by definition it should work, because a Turing machine can implement a DFA and a PDA

user55340

I think c++ templates are Turing capable too.

Robert Harvey

8:40 PM

Dairy Farmers of America, Dynamic Fabric Automation, Departoment of Foreign Affairs...

user55340

It's still a matter of using it.

enderland

we use DFA on a project name here too

user114359

55

Q: C++ templates Turing-complete?

I'm told that the template system in C++ is Turing-complete at compile time. This is mentioned in this post and also on wikipedia. Can you provide a nontrivial example of a computation that exploits this property? Is this fact useful in practice?

c++ templates

user55340

While Turing complete, if it can't be used practically it isn't useful.

user114359

@MichaelT which describes C++ templates for almost any purpose other than generic type specification.

user55340

8:42 PM

Yep.

user114359

Every time I see someone implement factorials using C++ templates I want to ~~throat punch them through my monitor~~ give them a hug and explain why it is a bad idea.

user55340

Java DFA types are able to be reasoned about and can implement a DSL of a regular language.

user41796

@Snowman no spaces between the --- and the text

user55340

Now, if I could implement a cfg in scala types, that would be even more useful.

enderland

three ---

user114359

8:44 PM

worst part of markdown syntax

user114359

cfg?

user55340

Context free grammar

user55340

Recognized by a push down finite state automata. Can balance parens.

user114359

I cannot brain today. I thought you typed context-sensitive grammar

user114359

Yes, PDA --> context-free

user55340

8:46 PM

9

A: How to make sure people call methods in the right order?

The fluent interface for a inner domain specific language is built on top of the Builder pattern. Ultimately, you are building up a representation that is to be used. The solution is to then use a stateful builder (related: How should I handle incompatible configurations with the Bulider pattern...

enderland

@GlenH7 I guess he didn't want to discuss it?

user41796

apparently. And there goes the special access.

user55340

@Snowman you can see the evolution of my thoughts on playing with types in my earlier linked question. Simpler structure - only three states with no loops.

user55340

7

A: How should I handle incompatible configurations with the Bulider pattern?

You've got your Builder. However, at this point you need some interfaces. There is a FileBuilder interface that defines one subset of methods (not setSize) and a SizeBuilder interface that defines another subset of methods (not setFilename). You may wish to have a GenericBuilder interface exte...

user55340

And then there is playing with abstract classes in there too github.com/shagie/StatefulBuilder

user114359

9:02 PM

@MichaelT I like the idea of multiple builder objects working together to enforce correctness at compile time. I always enforced that in the creation logic, e.g. throwing an exception if all required methods are not called. But for complex objects that need a builder to begin with, that might save some headaches.

user55340

As I said... An interesting avenue to explore.

user114359

Now I understand why you are interested in implementing a PDA using the type system - you could essentially implement a SQL expression with nested expressions using method calls.

user114359

I don't think you could just chain method calls, you would need to use the nested builder in one of your answers.

user41796

I didn't fully realize that LINQ allows you to treat two generic lists the same way you'd treat two tables within SQL for the purposes of joining and filtering

user55340

9:35 PM

@Snowman in Java yes. I'm certain Java type system is only regular. Makes for things you can better reason about.

user55340

Now... Can I write a DSL in the type system of scala that is both practical and usable.

user55340

Because I can call scala from Java.

user55340

And retain the compile time checking of the language.

user41796

9:54 PM

When your last hope is to crowd-source your problem, then you're kind of up sh!t creek in a bad way.

user55340

?

Ixrec

well, that is basically an admission that you don't have the resources to solve the problem yourself

user41796

> Please I need your help in solving it.

user55340

@Snowman that war ear question is going down the scary path of "which class loader" and version fun (similar to what @durron597 encountered recently)

user114359

@MichaelT exactly, that is the first thing I thought of, so I decided to try to deescalate: can we not use an EAR, knowing they just make things more complex?

user114359

10:05 PM

Sometimes you really do need the power and complexity of JBoss/EAR, but not often.

user55340

here, we have one war per ear (must have ear from other department that manages servers)

user55340

I'm working on trying to do multiple wars in the ear to make some things easier.

Jimmy Hoffa

10:41 PM

Guinness Blonde official rating, Thumbs Up.

far better than expected.

@Snowman this is precisely why I have the slightest knowledge of automata. DSL stuff / data grubbling (technical term) is very easy and nice to deal with using automata

@MichaelT playing with DFA in a type system? Zah? heh

where was this and how did I miss it?

stupid busy work stuff

Robert Harvey

Seriously considering getting a Pluralsight subscription. I am discovering that I can't learn a new technology from a book. I fall asleep after 5 minutes. Could be my age, or maybe I was always like that.

Ampt

9

A: $ \tan 1^\circ \cdot \tan 2^\circ \cdot \tan 3^\circ \cdots \tan 89^\circ$

First, let's re-arrange these terms so that we can make use of the hints in other answers. $$\tan(1^\circ) \cdot \tan(89^\circ) \cdot \tan(2^\circ) \cdot \tan(88^\circ) \cdot\cdot\cdot \tan(44^\circ) \cdot \tan(46^\circ) \cdot \tan(45^\circ)$$ Here, we can see a clear pattern of $$\tan(x) \cdot...

still the only actual answer

and still getting upvotes

not that I'm bitter at all

Shog9

10:57 PM

I really don't want to be unkind about this, @gnat, so I'm not gonna respond to your latest comment... I don't know what threshold you think is gonna start making your point, but... There really isn't one. Progse has a rough couple of years starting out, deletion stats are pretty high for almost any slice you wanna make.

gnat

@Shog9 I picked the threshold I typically use in my flags for historical locks. Over 2K views, over 2 years old, valuable content in answers => I typically flag for lock (and it usually gets h/l)

Shog9

3K+ drops it to about 11% deleted

somewhat less than that locked

HL is, of course, reasonable for questions that can't be fixed and can't be deleted... But it is essentially death; no one will ever improve a HL question, no one will ever contribute a better answer, it is as good or not bad as it ever will be.

When Progse first launched - as NPR - it was our HL; a way to get rid of all the accumulated cruft without actually deleting it. Turned out to be not such a great foundation for a site.

I wouldn't lean on HL too heavily either.

gnat

@Shog9 scope change, don't forget. Yet another thing that Programmers have which is absent at SO (save for code-golf). Polishing questions that went out of scope won't work: "I come here to learn and contribute to Programmers topics" (and I am not alone in that). Deleting them is unfair. Hence, HL

Shog9

Deleting is a kindness in many cases.

Most of the questions I asked or answered in the early days of the site are gone - not just closed. And the site and those who came after me are better for that.

Much as I hate to admit it, the world probably doesn't need yet another anti-VB rant

enderland

@Shog9 do you see closing a question as a "going to be deleted eventually" thing?

Shog9

11:10 PM

"Unfair" is deleting an oft-referenced question with a useful answer because you can't be bothered to update the question. Absent such an answer, the question is merely a popular nuisance.

gnat

@Shog9 Not in this case, note that NPR /off isn't the only change. Career topics went to TWP, software recommendations went to SR.SE, code review to CR.SE. While Programmers was the only home for them, we were getting reasonable quality questions

Shog9

@enderland Hold on, I have an answer for you somewhere...

@gnat you know you don't actually have to close everything that another site says is on-topic, right?

gnat

@Shog9 yes I can't be bothered to update career topics, software recommendations and code review questions. Even reasonable ones, even with good questions. "I come here to learn and contribute to Programmers topics"

@Shog9 sure, I learned most useful idea on this from you. "Topics overlap, accept that and mark natural boundaries". I vote close only what's off-topic over here

enderland

@Shog9 I guess I'm not sure whether you think that's a [by-design] thing or a [unintentional-but-inevitable] thing

Shog9

@gnat good. A few sites have gotten... over-enthusiastic with that, which really hurt them.

@enderland does it matter?

enderland

11:16 PM

@Shog9 I guess to me the big... disagreement here is that you and Robert feel closing a question dooms it to deletion, but none of the people who voted to close it (well, presumably) feel that way - it's more a "this isn't on topic" thing

Shog9

You have essentially three outcomes for a closed question:
1. Reopening
2. Deletion
3. Deletion, but in the future

enderland

I'm trying to understand a bit why there is such a disconnect between your thoughts and those commenting on your post, because it seems unlikely anyone really wants that question to go completely away

Shog9

I haven't even read the question. It might be awful. Doesn't change reality.

enderland

Ah, so I think that people discussing this with you think that "4. Useful for the Internet, but closed as off topic" is an option, too

Shog9

You pick one of those three outcomes based on what you think should happen to a question. And... You may have noticed... Given a long enough period of time, there are only two outcomes.

enderland

11:18 PM

@Shog9 assuming enough people VTD, yes, but if not, then (4) is what happens (again not sure if by design or just in effect)

user55340

20 hours ago, by MichaelT

Ok... that mod 3 thing. Got it working. Its kind of neat.

Shog9

@enderland do you recall the reason for close vote aging?

enderland

@Shog9 I don't actually, I vaguely recall reading a meta post about it though :)

Shog9

There is, I think, a succinct description from Jeff around somewhere

but I can't find it

so here's a really long one instead

user55340

@Shog9 Its tied into the announcement of the queues IIRC.

Shog9

11:20 PM

> One can easily imagine situations where, given sufficient time, any question might be closed due to the gradual accumulation of votes from a tiny minority of voters, and indeed this does happen.

If votes didn't age, then given enough time every question would eventually be closed, because sooner or later someone's gonna think it's bad and vote and if one person does then sooner or later someone else will too, and... up to 5.

So votes age. You make a decision or you don't.

But delete votes do not age.

It doesn't matter if no one on the site today would even think of voting to delete a given closed question.

In 10 years, maybe someone does.

In another 10 years, someone else does.

Eventually, enough votes accumulate to delete the post. Heck, when I joined the company, I deleted questions I'd voted to delete years prior...

user55340

31

A: What Happened Here? Voted to Close 4 Days Ago, but No Close Votes Today?

We now use a form of sliding expiration, so as long as close/reopen votes keep arriving at the rate of at least one every 4 days, they will not expire. Once the votes do expire, vote aging happens every 24 hours, so you can expect the remaining very old close/reopen votes to expire at the rate o...

Shog9

Hmm... no why though.

enderland

This is interesting to me (sorry, not sure what to respond, but don't want to be lurking that well)

Shog9

Anyway, this no-aging behavior is ok for delete votes, since close votes do age.

To get to the point where you can even cast a delete vote, you have to convince folks that it's worth closing first.

user55340

51

A: Close Votes expire too soon for low-traffic tags

Brock, this is GENIUS! I am hereby using my super-upvote on this feature-request: Close votes (and probably reopen votes) only expire after all of these conditions are met: 4 days have passed since the last close vote. The question has more than 100 views. (#3 is kind of impos...

Shog9

11:25 PM

@MichaelT the birth of the close queue!

user55340

@Shog9 I think we should instead just go with this (10k link) suggestion though.

Shog9

So yeah: those two outcomes for closed questions... They're mutually-exclusive, sorta (there's a weird thing where you can actually reopen a deleted question, but... It doesn't accomplish much).

user55340

Jan 24 '14 at 22:39, by MichaelT

I call this the "Bleh" pattern. I let Robert deal with it.

user55340

Apr 1 '14 at 17:02, by MichaelT

I know... I need to go flag things on SO as "Because Unicorns - let Robert fix it"

user55340

(for the non-10k on MSE...)

enderland

11:27 PM

Hm. So basically the problem is that historical lock is really the only mechanism for sites which have relatively significant scope changes - close/delete voting are... not well equipped to handle "want to not delete, but not leave open" at all

user55340

Shog9

And I gotta be perfectly honest: the close/reopen system is not something I'm a big fan of, nevermind that I seem to have spent half of my life dealing with it by now.

enderland

by design

Shog9

I think it has too much overhead, is too confusing, and mostly doesn't work for the worst questions.

But... Like democracy... It's better than all those other things we've tried.

enderland

just give everyone mod privileges and see what happens!

I'm... actually curious what would happen if that took place

user55340

11:29 PM

Backup the database March 31, April 1 give everyone a diamond, April 2 restore from backup.

Shog9

@enderland when I first earned close/reopen privileges, they were actually close/reopen privileges: no voting. I missed that ever since. Which probably explains a lot of my distaste for how voting works and also my frequent disagreements with folks who enjoy voting.

@enderland well... Or delete. I mean, let's face it: if you're marking a non-trivial amount of a site as off-topic, it'd better have some really pervasive, hard-core problems... You probably want to delete most of it.

'cause if you don't, well... why make it off-topic?

enderland

I think this gets at the "make the internet a better place"

user55340

@Shog9 part of the reason I am paticuarlly likely to close vote a old too broad is because it leads to very poor experiences for new users who answer it with their $0.02 worth and two sentence answer.

enderland

If you had 1000 questions and 20 turned out great, by accident so to speak, you don't necessarily want to ax all 1000 if you can leave the 20 around later

Shog9

@enderland again, we come up against practical considerations vs. idealism: if you don't have enough folks willing and wanting to get rid of a topic, can you really say it's off-topic?

user55340

11:31 PM

It goes to "should anyone be answering this now" that is a "protection vs close vote"

user55340

because we know how much people love proactive protection of questions.

enderland

@Shog9 well this is why I was asking about the "CV to delete" - intended feature, or unexpected outcome side of things

I've never really thought of closing a question as a pipeline to deletion before

at least in the certainty and finality you are suggesting

Shog9

@enderland Jeff called closing a "nomination for deletion", and explicitly laid out this lifecycle so it is almost certainly by-design.

still catches quite a few people off-guard

enderland

to be fair, that was six years ago

Shog9

Including, by my last count, literally everyone reading Progse's meta site

@enderland not like we've redesigned deletion in that time

user55340

11:34 PM

> The mental cost of processing these closed questions is not zero, particularly for users who are actively engaged and scanning questions to find things they can help answer.

If users see a lot of closed questions, they'll note that we don't enforce the guidelines, so why should they? Without any final resolution, asking questions that get closed becomes something we are implicitly encouraging -- a broken windows problem. If this goes on for long enough, we're no longer a community of programmers who ask and answer programming questions, we're a community of random people discussing.. wha…

Shog9

closing, maybe... for 5 days after the closure... but not deletion.

enderland

@Shog9 no, but it's not exactly the most clear/intuitive UX design either for people (such as myself, who apparently have missed this [status-by-design] feature for years :P)

user55340

from elsewhere... seen in a tech company restroom - don't groan too loudly.

Shog9

@enderland don't forget, that "lifecycle" blog post was motivated by a certain executive at SO also missing the point.

@MichaelT ahhh-hahah. I was totally caught off-guard, since my experience with SOAP indicates the first request inevitably produces a parse error.

I still think my idea for renaming closure to "nominated for deletion THIS POST WILL SELF-DESTRUCT IN 10...9..." was rejected without proper consideration.

user55340

Aside - has there been any work on making it easier (non-wordpressy) for sites to have a blog? or is the blogoverflow going to go the way of the dodo some day?

user55340

11:45 PM

This is tangent to the "don't delete good content" - because sometimes the content is good, but the format isn't one that fits within the Q&A structure... and it would be nice to be able to more easily move the answers that are blog posts to questions that get closed as too broad or primary opinion out to other content space... like a blog post.

user55340

> He made a null soap request, not sure that's going to get him where he wants to go. He should try the URInal.

user55340

@GlenH7 'fun' question over on woodworking to think about:

user55340

1

Q: Is there a safe way to make a plunge cut with a chainsaw?

Having looked up chainsaw safety videos on the internet it seems that a big danger with chainsaws is kickback - where the tip of the chainsaw contacts something unexpected and throws the blade back up towards the users head/neck. Is there a way to make a plunge cut with a chainsaw into thick woo...

safety chain-saw

enderland

@Shog9 I will be honest too, given my background in HCI... it's frustrating to see systems designed for one outcome (in theory) give the tools to do something completely separate :\

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