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user55340
12:22 AM
Is there such a thing as good poutine? - podcast @ Splendid Table.
 
user55340
And I got out of the car before I could listen to it - Hard cider revival
 
user114359
1:21 AM
Could someone (somepeople) please check the meta tools? I VTD'd a few closed questions and they are still sitting at one vote: meta.programmers.stackexchange.com/tools
 
gnat
gnat
8:56 AM
-2
A: Can I ask about a programming trend or culture on Stack Overflow?

PowertiekeWouldn't this be a good fit for programmers.stackexchange.com ?

^^^ yeah sure
@Snowman that's a tough call, I for one am generally very reluctant to VtD on meta
 
Duga
Duga
9:43 AM
This has been migrated to Programmers. I had to clear the actual migration history (which deleted the automated migration link) to deal with some technical nonsense (migrations getting locked upon rejection, etc). — Yannis 36 secs ago
 
 
4 hours later…
gnat
gnat
1:27 PM
@MichaelT this time is hardly about learning Haskess, more likely sort of "balancing act" to counter his recent slippery reopens of closed hot questions. Which is fair enough - if moderator decides to burden site community with maintaining bikesheddig stuff exposed at hot list, they can at least do something to decrease their burden somewhere else, in this case in very low quality questions
 
enderland
enderland
@enderland Could the question's on-hold status please be removed now as it is entirely about requirements to build a tool, and has nothing to do with recommendations? — Yogesch 7 hours ago
 
 
3 hours later…
Stack Exchange
Stack Exchange
4:04 PM
-1
Q: cyclos 4 going live to paypal keep getting error

mike allen0 down vote favorite so here are the four scripts I am using to go live on paypal. Everything works in sandbox but when I change credentials to live I get this error: link http://www.cyclos.org/documentation/cyclos-scripting/paypal Error compiling script CustomScript#2: Buy units with PayPal, f...

discussion programmers-se payment
 
Duga
Duga
I'm not sure if this fits on Stack Overflow. It feels as a design question that might fit on Programmers.se but make sure to read their on topic page or ask on their meta first before you even consider re-posting.. — rene 30 secs ago
 
gnat
gnat
@RobertCartaino since it's not the first time you're doing questionable reopens, could you please give a read to our meta: On discussions and why they don't make good questions — gnat 1 min ago
 
Duga
Duga
4:34 PM
,Thanks. Your reply came in just as I was reading some meta posts on mechanism to move this question to programmers.SE :-) On Q2, Do you always use services for ingesting the data from the legacy system to the microservice system. While I understand that, the recommendation is to not allow anybody to access the microservice repository directly, I wonder how this works for the initial dataload when the records are in the millions. There might even be some daily delta updates from legacy that needs to be brought in which could be in the thousands. — user132797 42 secs ago
 
user114359
@gnat I can understand the sentiment, but some questions are pretty worthless to keep around.
 
gnat
gnat
@Snowman one of the questions you voted on looks indeed worthless, I added my vote on it. Other two, less so, I checked them and decided I need more time to make my mind on them. Folks on "big metas" (MSE/MSO) are certainly not reluctant to delete, as for smaller ones I haven't yet though about these
 
user55340
Don't worry, I'm writing a rant.
 
user55340
4:52 PM
(referring to the reopen thing)
 
user55340
Btw, anyone have the stats on how many locked questions there are on each site? Or the big ones?
 
gnat
gnat
@MichaelT note please that it has been re-closed
 
user55340
@gnat Yep, just pointing out the conflicting messages we're getting from StackExchange about what should be open and not.
 
gnat
gnat
@MichaelT quoting self, "almost 2,500 locked questions at SO and almost 700 at Programmers"
 
user55340
And that as long as we have open questions like that, people on Stack Overflow are confused about it.
 
user55340
4:54 PM
@MetaFight my apologies. I see lots of these kinds of questions over there and didn't realize they weren't acceptable. — Ed Cottrell 24 hours ago
 
user55340
 
gnat
gnat
@MichaelT yeah, I'm only making sure that your rant is accurate :)
 
user55340
@gnat That doesn't quite get the real numbers because that includes migrated messes.
 
user55340
(and given that he's only been around for less than three years, he can't claim NPR memories)
 
gnat
gnat
@MichaelT I know, it's just a rough estimate. Possibly adding lower limit on views (prerequisite to h/lock) would make it better. Something like views:20000 at Programmers and views:50000 at SO
 
user55340
4:58 PM
Digging into data.SE.
 
user55340
Btw, some interesting reading on /r/javahelp reddit.com/r/javahelp/comments/3nc9xp/…
 
gnat
gnat
@MichaelT for Programmers, 10000 or even 5000 views may make it, I once started flagging for h/lock quite generously views wise and moderators didn't mind it (for a site with scope change like ours, I believe we needn't be as strict as SO)
 
dhblah
dhblah
5:19 PM
@Ixrec hi, remember I've been asking about binary search. I finally got the idea. I.e. converted 3 predicates solution to a single predicate solution. Also I have a sort of step by step conversion instruction. Planning to make a page on github on it.
I mean, there are several tricks along the way.
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
cool
 
gnat
gnat
5:31 PM
@MichaelT shagie is you :)
 
user55340
@gnat That is my standard nickname.
 
user55340
Just that 'shagie' was taken as a name.
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
7:18 PM
Cation?
 
user55340
I fixed it.
 
user55340
0
Q: To Robert Cartaino, who reopens broad questions

MichaelTEvery day we get opinionated questions asked here. People seem to think that this is the place to ask them. New users point to the old open questions that have fallen through the cracks of time as reason that their question should be open too. Old Stack Overflow users continue to suggest repos...

discussion specific-question scope site-definition
 
user1667423
user1667423
is O(2^n) = O(3^n)?
how I prove that?
3^n = e^(n*log(3))
2^n = e^(n*log(2))
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
do you know the definition of O()?
 
user55340
2^n is a subset of 3^n.
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
7:19 PM
the e stuff doesn't really matter
 
user1667423
user1667423
They differ by a constant factor for sufficiently large n?
 
user55340
I don't know if that constant makes a difference in the big O definition.
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
in this case, because O() is an upper bound, any algorithm that is O(2^n) is also automatically O(3^n), just as any O(1) algorithm is also O(3^n)
 
user1667423
user1667423
Yeah, what I meant is is O(3^n) in O(2^n)?
 
user55340
That would be something to ask on CS.SE.
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
7:20 PM
but the difference between 2^n and 3^n is not a constant factor, so if you were using big-theta they would be completely separate complexity classes
 
user1667423
user1667423
2^(n+1) = 2*2^n in O(2^n) for example, right?
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
that would be correct yes
 
user114359
@MichaelT I haven't done as much digging as you have, but I noticed something fishy going on with some of those old questions.
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
I believe that big-theta(a^n) is a distinct complexity class for every positive value of a, non-integers included, though I doubt I could produce the proof right now
 
user55340
@Snowman There is at least one user who will cast a reopen vote or undelete vote on any post that is deleted or closed that he has answered, irregardless of the content of the question itself.
 
user114359
7:27 PM
@Ixrec Having been through M.S.-level algorithms including recurrence relations and other brain-breaking math, I have concluded there is one thing to remember about exponential time algorithms. Comparing them to figure out the least bad is a waste of time. Instead, try to find a way to adapt at least a portion of the algorithm to polynomial time.
 
amon
amon
@user1667423 I think you can prove by induction over n that 2^n < c · 3^n for all n >= 1 for all c > 0. Therefore, O(3^n) is not a subset O(2^n)
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
@Snowman agreed, I'm definitely not suggesting that working out the proof would be a productive activity during my day-to-day programming job
 
user114359
@MichaelT rep is grandfathered in on those old Q/As, so it is basically done for pride.
 
user55340
The key thing I remember from college on O(k^n) algorithms is "don't write them"
 
user55340
@Snowman Yep.
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
7:28 PM
pretty much, it seems like you can almost always avoid them if you get sufficiently creative
 
user55340
@Ixrec or explain to the boss that "no, this will take 2 days to run" and then get the business requirements changed.
 
user114359
What I have found is in the Real World, there is either a way to change the requirement or filter the data to the point that the run time is acceptable. O(crap) is a worst-case on a large input: reduce the input and it might be good enough.
 
user114359
Oddly enough, going through Project Euler I have found a few algorithms that could be simplified from exponential to polynomial. But that is not an accurate reflection of "real" programs (i.e. the ones I get paid to write).
 
user114359
Which reminds me... this is my last week at work!
 
user55340
> A mosquito intends to fly from A(200,200) to B(1400,1400), without leaving the area given by 0 ≤ x, y ≤ 1600.

Because of the intervening mountains, it first rises straight up to a point A', having elevation f. Then, while remaining at the same elevation f, it flies around any obstacles until it arrives at a point B' directly above B.

First, determine fmin which is the minimum constant elevation allowing such a trip from A to B, while remaining in the specified area.
Then, find the length of the shortest path between A' and B', while flying at that constant elevation fmin.
 
user55340
7:32 PM
Come on, you know you write code like that.
 
user55340
 
ratchet freak
ratchet freak
that's A*
 
user55340
 
user1667423
user1667423
What about O(1/n)?
Is that even legitimate?
 
user55340
@user1667423 It is only illegitimate if you don't know the parent function.
 
user114359
7:35 PM
@user1667423 Wouldn't that just be O(1), constant time? As n approaches infinity, it approaches the X-axis as an asymptote. In other words, "it does not grow"
 
ratchet freak
ratchet freak
and calling a function is O(1) so it'll end up being O(1+1/n) which is O(1)
 
user114359
Odell Beckham Jr just did it again, made an impossible catch. He was out of bounds so it was technically incomplete, but he grabbed it one-handed and reeled it in. Even if you don't like (American) football you have to admit that guy is amazing.
 
user55340
 
user114359
This guy:
 
user114359
 
user114359
7:43 PM
@MichaelT I had never seen that. Those trick plays with multiple lateral/backward passes are pretty entertaining, but they don't usually end as well as that one.
 
user55340
@Snowman Stanford's band may have caused the team to lose.
 
user55340
 
user55340
The Play (Stanford vs. California)
The Play refers to a last-second kickoff return during a college football game between the University of California Golden Bears and the Stanford Cardinal on Saturday, November 20, 1982. Given the circumstances and rivalry, the wild game that preceded it, the very unusual way in which The Play unfolded, and its lingering aftermath on players and fans, it is recognized as one of the most memorable plays in college football history and among the most memorable in American sports. After Stanford had taken a 20–19 lead on a field goal with four seconds left in the game, the Golden Bears used five lateral...
 
user1667423
user1667423
I'm a bit confused
I suppose O(n^2 + n) is in O(n^2)?
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
yes
again, do you know the definition of O()?
 
user1667423
user1667423
7:50 PM
I'm probably confused about it
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
this does all feel very arbitrary if you haven't worked through the actual math
 
user1667423
user1667423
My understanding is
f(n) is in O(g(n)) iff f(n) is a constant multiple of g(n) for sufficiently large n.
Is that right?
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
less than or equal to, but otherwise yes
 
user1667423
user1667423
right
How does that apply to O(n^2 + n) being in O(n^2)?
Is n^2+n = k*n^2?
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
so for instance, f(n) = n^2 + n would be O(n^2) because 2(n^2) > n^2 + n for all n
 
user1667423
user1667423
7:52 PM
Ah, that makes sense
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
(given the assumption that n is a positive integer, of course)
 
user1667423
user1667423
Thanks
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
np
it takes some effort to generalize that proof but I believe that any k-degree polynomial is O(n^k)
 
user1667423
user1667423
Yeah, that's what I've read
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
and of course this is not true of exponentials; k*2^n is most certainly not greater than 3^n for all n, no matter how large a k you pick
and now it's bugging the heck out of me that I have no idea how to prove that
 
user1667423
user1667423
8:00 PM
Perhaps you can use k*2^n=exp(n log 2 + log k) whereas 3^n = exp(n log 3)?
 
user55340
@Ixrec ask on CS.SE?
 
ratchet freak
ratchet freak
@user1667423 and exp(a+b) = exp(a)*exp(b)
 
user1667423
user1667423
Since exp is monotonically increasing, you would only have to show that n log 2 + log k < n log 3 for sufficiently large n (I think).
 
ratchet freak
ratchet freak
log 2 / log 3 + log k / n log 3 < n
 
 
2 hours later…
user55340
9:59 PM
 
ratchet freak
ratchet freak
@MichaelT someone has misplaced a sign there
 
user55340
@ratchetfreak South Carolina.
 
user55340
 
ratchet freak
ratchet freak
correction someone misplaced some water there
 
user55340
@ratchetfreak of note, South Carolina has alligators.
 
user114359
10:16 PM
We have family down there and they shared some pictures with us. That reminds me why I choose to live where natural disasters are minimized. For example, my current house is on top of a really big hill. It would be pretty much impossible for it to flood unless global warming melts both polar ice caps.
 
ratchet freak
ratchet freak
the north cap is a non issue because that's floating ice
 
user114359
@ratchetfreak correct, but there is land-ice on northern Canada, Greenland, et al that would also melt and run into the oceans
 
ratchet freak
ratchet freak
besides heavy rain could destabilize the hill and turn it into a mudslide
 
user55340
 
user55340
(It doesn't list blizzards)
 
user55340
10:20 PM
 
user55340
Las Vegas is the safe place.
 
user114359
@ratchetfreak eh, not a regular hill. I am several hundred feet above one of the great lakes at the top of the slope into the lake. The ground around here is full of clay that is pretty much impervious to water.
 

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