The Whiteboard

Jimmy Hoffa

9:00 PM

@WorldEngineer "I could never kill an animal! But I have an excess of deer urine, I know it's useful for something!"

user55340

@AshleyNunn Can I do a "Dances with Wolves" to keep stray dogs out of my yard?

user20683

@Oded I owe you several pints

Oded

Heh. Destroying the second account today did it, I didn't intervene otherwise, @WorldEngineer

user41796

@Oded - indeed, thanks for flushing those accounts

user41796

Still counts as a win

user55340

9:01 PM

@Oded you could probably do a world tour of P.SE regulars and get lots of free beer. And free beer as in free beer.

Robert Harvey

SpamRam™ -- Go Play in Traffic.

Oded

@GlenH7 - WorldEngineer did the first, I did the second, the automated system took the hint, and he is out for 3 days. Unless he manages to get destroyed/block elsewhere on the network... which will kick it higher.

Robert Harvey

[Cue Robocop music]

user55340

Oded

Seems to be coming from the same IP range all the time... so :)

user55340

9:02 PM

( pbfcomics.com/216 )

user41796

So you're saying we should go find other accounts of his? :-)

Oded

Whack an Andy

user55340

Incidentally, I've got one of those for my cat.

user55340

amazon.com/Hugs-Pet-Products-Whack-A-Mouse-Cat/dp/B00C65W0S2

user41796

He would be an interesting case to test the honey pot theory against

Oded

9:03 PM

> hours of fun with this interactive toy

user55340

Do NOT use fingers in place of the mouse on a stick. Bad things happen.

Oded

Really?

user20683

what if I'm wearing a chainmail glove?

user41796

Some have suggested in the past to drop known trolls and spammers into a honey pot where they can see what they posted but it's shunted away from the rest of the site.

Oded

@GlenH7 Such suggestions may have been listened to and acted upon.

user20683

9:04 PM

@GlenH7 then it becomes people whining "but it's on topic on trolland."

user41796

@WorldEngineer Let 'em whinge away all day long to themselves

Oded

Though, I think we have a few posts (different sites on the network) that seem to be spammer targets - we know of them and if someone trying to spam them once more, they go deep into the ban hole

user55340

Hmm... trying to imagine the troll land side of MSO... and that scares me.

Oded

Truth

user41796

And it would be hilarious if there was a separate scoring system for honey pot land. So spammers could up vote each other & answer their own spam

Robert Harvey

9:06 PM

Hmm, there's something I don't quite understand here. I had a question migrate from AVP to the Sound Design site, and got a notification. I didn't have an account on SD, so I created one, and suddenly I have 381 rep.

Is AVP migrating questions to SD en-masse?

user55340

@RobertHarvey Alien Vs Predator?

Robert Harvey

Audio-Video Production.

Oded

@RobertHarvey - yes. The Audio portion of AVP is being moved to Sound Design.

user55340

Btw, I find the irony in this statement amusing:

Robert Harvey

OK.

user55340

9:07 PM

> @RobertHarvey Playing hardball, eh? Looks like I'll have to initiate plan #2. – user115976 9 mins ago

Oded

@MichaelT - yeah, that comment was rather amusing.

Robert Harvey

Yeah, I noticed that. Pfft. I spit on your moley grave. And then dance a jig.

user41796

@MichaelT I was going to ask him to not bother but figured it was wasted electrons

user41796

RH - The last bit got you the star

Oded

@RobertHarvey - Tim Post is handling the migrations, so he will be able to give you more info if you so wish.

Robert Harvey

9:08 PM

Just wondering what all the fuss was about.

Oded

2

Q: The Audio Merge With Sound Design SE Is Now Underway

As previously announced, we're happy to now announce that the merge between Audio in AVP and Sound Design SE is now underway. A system message banner will shortly appear on the main site, alerting folks to what's going on. For the most part, once you go create a linked account on Sound if you ha...

That's where all the noise comes from ^^^

Robert Harvey

Good enough, thanks.

Jimmy Hoffa

That's fine, it's not a beautiful answer nor is it a beautiful question. I think you're misunderstanding my application of strategy pattern to his solution - it is the runtime selection of an implementation to use, please consult the link I referenced. The fact that an interface matters at all is a static-typed methodology to let the caller of the implementation(s) know that the implementation call is consistent. — Kevin 12 mins ago

Heh the problem with patterns is they're tautologies at this point; they're right because they're patterns, and if you don't know that "please consult the documentation" to understand why they're right for all purposes (it's because they'rep patterns and patterns are good).

user41796

@JimmyHoffa So if he calls it the Interface pattern instead of the Strategy pattern will you give him back the vote? :-)

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 I actually might... I wouldn't give him an up-vote but I would at least retract the down vote which was given to him for just blatantly pointing at a dictionary and saying "Look it's a strategy!"

user41796

9:21 PM

His first version of his answer hit the VLQ queue

Jimmy Hoffa

I also like how he says you could use dependency injection for it; because you know, dependency injection frameworks tend to have key/value lookup and the guy was talking about a dictionary so y'know, they're the same thing right?

@GlenH7 That was me. I'm surprised and please he did edit it

from now on I'm going to use unity or ninject for all key-value lookups.

Heh Zeos seems like he's trying to use P.SE to get the help he needs but doesn't know how considering he cross-posted I guess. He needs 11 rep to get in here... then he could be helped in constructing the question he needs to ask

user41796

Today's NSFW music has been a great reminder why I prefer full-enclosure headphones.

3

user41796

@JimmyHoffa You already flagged the cross-posts?

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 Yeah, everytime I listen to Mindless Self Indulgence or 3OH!3 I'm worried my earbuds can be heard away from me

@GlenH7 Super-mod fixed it, I'm assuming it was a cross-post, super-mod did some ninja shit I don't quite understand

user41796

And Zeos has 81 rep on SO, so he can chat in any room

user41796

9:27 PM

@JimmyHoffa There's some stuff that I keep below half-volume because I know some of it can be heard if I crank it loud enough

user41796

buds tend to be much worse for that though. And don't get me started on the standard issue headsets they give out here at work for the VoIP.

user41796

@JimmyHoffa benefits of having someone who is a mod for here and SO

Robert Harvey

I was asked once by Mark Trapp to nominate myself in one of the Programmer elections, as was one of the other SO mods. We both declined on the same grounds: that we would unduly influence a community that, at the time, was still trying to find its way.

@JimmyHoffa People are crazy about the Design Patterns. They think they can throw around these things and it makes them look competent, but they still need to know how to solve problems with code.

user41796

@RobertHarvey I had wondered at the last election if you were going to nominate yourself. Definitely some advantages to having the cross-site mod ability -- the community certainly benefits. But the two sites really do have different cultures.

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey Yeah, it's just like we were talking about the other day, if you focus only on abstractions because we're good at abstractions and don't know our domains so much, you end up with a programming language when you set out to create a program.

Robert Harvey

9:33 PM

@GlenH7 If they held another election today, I would nominate. I think the community has gotten stable enough now. It was the instability that was mostly the reason Mark left. I didn't witness it personally, but I have it on good authority that he resigned just before his head exploded.

user41796

@RobertHarvey He took a lot more heat than he deserved while guiding the community through its personality change.

user41796

There are hints and allegations littered throughout old comments and meta posts

Robert Harvey

I think the straw was certain people insisting on keeping things the old way, months after the change had already become ingrained.

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey I was arguing with him in comments on a meta post, after like the 8th comment he deleted all of his comments and his account disappeared. Oops; my bad.

user20683

I was on hiatus being massacred by finals or some such when he left

user41796

9:36 PM

Finals. pfffft.

Jimmy Hoffa

I don't frankly recall the post or subject exactly... and my comments are deleted as well so I can't pull it up, though a 10k could liably stumble across it..

user41796

only mods can see deleted comments.

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 oh?

user41796

likewise, only mods can search for deleted questions

Robert Harvey

@JimmyHoffa Mark had no hard feelings. He was willing to take the hits, and happy to see the community mature.

I think he felt like the time he put in was worth it.

But eventually you have to set the bird free.

That's how he looked at it.

user41796

9:40 PM

I wonder if that birdie will ever return to the roost

Robert Harvey

Not in its original form, no. :)

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 P.SE is more of a flying cat than a bird

oo there's a scary thought...

Robert Harvey

A herd of flying cats.

With lemming tendencies.

user41796

Definitely a herd. Hopefully he'll consider returning under a different alias

Robert Harvey

Maybe he's Andy Harglesis. Getting his revenge.

Jimmy Hoffa

9:42 PM

@GlenH7 he has. It's Andy. O gods what happened to you??

user41796

I would've thunk Mark to be smarter than that though

user41796

I mean, Andy's making rookie troll mistakes.

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 Leslar? Baiting @RobertHarvey to get revenge for him refusing to nominate

user41796

And Mark knows a lot about the inner workings of the system; so he'd be much harder to catch as a troll.

user41796

@JimmyHoffa - Andy was confirmed to be Leslar.

user41796

9:43 PM

Goma's identity is still unknown afaik

user41796

IMO, Goma had some amazing trolling questions. Definitely not a rookie

Robert Harvey

You Have the Right to Disappear

user41796

(reading that now). I never liked Atwood's post on rage-quitting.

user20683

@RobertHarvey I may have disagreed with him but I always respected him.

Robert Harvey

On Account Deletions and Leaving Stack Exchange

Jimmy Hoffa

9:56 PM

After reading a bit of Atwood's blog there about Aaron Schwartz and such; I gotta say that's some pretty terrible things he's saying in there. "Feeling suicidal? You're such a quitter." The empathy just exudes across the internet...

user41796

@JimmyHoffa Not one of Jeff's best posts

user20683

Jeff generally does best when talking about tech specifically

user20683

rather than the social issues surrounding

Robert Harvey

Atwood's post is a bit heavy-handed, but I think his point is that people come to sites like SE with their own preconceived expectations about what it is, and then decide to pick up their marbles and go home when the site doesn't meet those expectations. This is particularly distressing when said ragequitter is someone who has contributed a lot to the community. It feels like they're trying to punish the community, and comes off as immature.

user41796

I would have to agree. Like many technologists, his social viewpoint can be quite myopic.

Jimmy Hoffa

10:02 PM

@GlenH7 I tend to be a bit mycotopic myself, I just love mushrooms on my pizza.

Robert Harvey

You are referring to this article, right? codinghorror.com/blog/2013/01/the-end-of-ragequitting.html

user41796

@RobertHarvey I was, yes

Robert Harvey

Well, the person who commits suicide is not the one who suffers. It's all the people he leaves behind.

user41796

@RobertHarvey You may find this an interesting viewing: ted.com/talks/…

enderland

that blog is not one anyone familiar on a personal level with depression nor suicidal people would write, that's for sure

Robert Harvey

10:07 PM

@GlenH7 Yes, thanks. I will watch that when I have the time. I'm familiar with depression on a personal level; if you've never been depressed (hard to imagine), it's impossible to relate to the crushing pressure and isolation it inflicts.

That's why so many depressed people never get diagnosed with it. People don't know how to respond to it.

user41796

Solomon's premise of vitality instead of happiness being the opposite of depression is a very astute observation.

user20683

being sad != depressed

user41796

@WorldEngineer but many people, including those suffering from depression, don't realize that

Robert Harvey

Depression is what happens when you can't lift yourself out of that sadness. When the sadness becomes the new normal.

Well... That was uplifting. :P

user41796

@RobertHarvey yeah, the room conversation can die on the oddest notes.

user41796

10:11 PM

and that was probably a bad way of phrasing things given the previous conversation....

enderland

@GlenH7 yeah pretty much. Depression is an awkward topic for most people because of the implications of "screwing up" and so most people just back away IRL from people who have any inclination towards it

user41796

@enderland Solomon's talk has some interesting parts where he mocks Western society for those types of failings

user41796

It's also a subject where there are a wide range of opinions and feelings, all of which are equally valid. Each person is unique and so the circumstances of any particular situation will also be unique. And all of that is perfectly valid (and a bit confusing sometimes)

user41796

My martial arts studies have really exposed me to the duality of we are all the same and we are all unique

enderland

plenty of idiots also have an assinine "oh get over it" attitude - which is not helped by lots of people realizing "omg depression" is a huge attention getting card

Robert Harvey

10:16 PM

Where I work (a facility with about 1000 people) we had three suicides in one year. After years of having none. The director called an all-hands meeting, and basically stated "We can't have this happen anymore." He then introduced "the counselor," with her standard poodle therapy dog, and made the whole "counseling is confidential and free" speech.

user41796

@RobertHarvey Oy y vay. IMO, meetings like that are worse than saying nothing.

Robert Harvey

Well, I just checked recently, and she and her dog have moved on. Thankfully, we've had no more suicides.

user20683

@RobertHarvey Any cases of Cocci? I hear Lancaster is like ground 0 for that crap.

user15026

@WorldEngineer Oh god no I looked that up once never again

Robert Harvey

@WorldEngineer Not to my knowledge, but lots of sick people lately (mostly flu-like stuff).

No H1N1 cases, to my knowledge.

user41796

10:19 PM

There's a number of illnesses floating around in my area. Some strep; couple of low-grade flus; not sure what else.

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey The IBM office out here was famous for a different health problem; they had the ambulances there for heart attacks so often they literally installed an emergency button that would call the ambulance there. Not really the correct solution to the problem of overworking your employees with bonecrushing pressure but I guess it beats the ambulances showing up another 5 minutes later

Robert Harvey

Holy cow. We do have the AED devices on every floor here. I know of them being used at least once.

There's no emergency facilities on Edwards AFB.

user41796

@JimmyHoffa I wasn't at that location, but that was one of the most demanding companies of my time.

Jimmy Hoffa

@WorldEngineer Cocci?

user20683

@JimmyHoffa lung eating fungus, most people are fine...the rest? not so much.

Robert Harvey

10:22 PM

Room temperature?

user20683

good article in the New Yorker

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 Yeah I knew some people who worked at the one out here. The stories were pretty incredible. Bonecrushing deadlines, people getting fired left and right, and every few months a new floor would get mothballed; people were watching the numbers on the elevators just disappearing

so when you were being told you had to work that weekend, they meant it

enderland

f. that. I will NEVER work at a place like taht

Robert Harvey

@JimmyHoffa The suicides are probably not due to the work environment; we have an excellent work environment here. One of the principal leaders died in a head-on. All in all, not a very good year for the range.

user41796

I remember being on a death-march project where I was already working weekends for quite a while. The new team lead had started coming around to tell people they were on mandatory weekend work. I politely laughed in his face.

user41796

10:24 PM

Asked him to provide me another 2 days in the week so I could work 9 days instead of 7.

Jimmy Hoffa

@WorldEngineer My kid has a secondary lung infection after his RSV, and my wife and I have picked up the RSV (or the secondary infection?) - Don't be talking about brain eating lung fungi right now ya jerk

user20683

@JimmyHoffa Cocci isn't in the part of Colorado where you are I don't think

user20683

fungus only grows in certain parts of the desert southwest

user55340

@JimmyHoffa Typically, they're brain eating amoebas... that get in through the nose.

Jimmy Hoffa

@WorldEngineer Got me thinking we're all catching this

►

user55340

10:26 PM

Naegleria fowleri

Naegleria fowleri (also known as the "brain-eating amoeba") is a free-living, thermophylic excavate form of protist typically found in warm bodies of fresh water, such as ponds, lakes, rivers, and hot springs. It is also found in soil, near warm-water discharges of industrial plants, and in poorly chlorinated, or unchlorinated swimming pools, in an amoeboid or temporary flagellate stage. There is no evidence of this organism living in salt water. It is an amoeba belonging to the phylum Percolozoa. N. fowleri can invade and attack the human nervous system and brain, causing primary amoe...

user20683

@JimmyHoffa Don't play "Last of Us"

user20683

just don't

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT Yeah I did hear about the brain eating amoeba stuff recently, in general any form of amoeba is absolutely horrible

@WorldEngineer Huh?

user55340

@JimmyHoffa That fungus is actually seen as a traditional medicine in China / Tibet...

user20683

@JimmyHoffa take Walking Dead and make the culprit a human jumped cordyceps

Jimmy Hoffa

10:28 PM

@WorldEngineer Sounds like that movie with nicole kidman where the fungi gets in through the nose, and takes you over after you fall asleep

user20683

@JimmyHoffa worse

Jimmy Hoffa

I think it was nicole kidman... good movie

The Invasion (film)

The Invasion is a 2007 science fiction thriller film directed by Oliver Hirschbiegel, starring Nicole Kidman and Daniel Craig. The film had a particularly troubled production, and had its release date postponed several times. At the command of Warner Bros., writer Dave Kajganich's original screenplay was re-written by The Wachowskis during filming, and the studio also ordered a series of re-shoots by director James McTeigue. The Invasion is the fourth film adaptation of the 1955 novel The Body Snatchers by Jack Finney, following Don Siegel's 1956 film Invasion of the Body Snatchers, Phili...

Fun movie if you like horror (which I can't get enough of as a rule)

0

Q: Developing controls around reporting

I am in the stages of doing some planning for a workflow system. I am using VB.NET/VS2010 alongside MS Access. I intend to have reporting mechanisms so my system can generate reports that capture work volumes and metrics. I am putting together a project plan, andI would like to include some con...

sql reporting

You have VS2010 and you're still going at your application with VB and Access??

user41796

@JimmyHoffa I think the appropriate answer is "now you have two problems"

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 I think the appropriate answer is a dull moan following by a high pitched shriek

Robert Harvey

If he's using regex also, he has three problems.

Jimmy Hoffa

10:35 PM

@RobertHarvey Good point, I'll suggest that he use it, then he can just think of himself as a collector

Robert Harvey

Access is a world-class reporting tool, though. The problems people have with it almost always are caused by them trying to share a database on a network.

user41796

@JimmyHoffa don't forget to name a design pattern for him to use

Robert Harvey

I have no idea what he's asking.

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey Yeah it really doesn't make any sense heh

Robert Harvey

What is Rich Domain Design?

Jimmy Hoffa

10:39 PM

@RobertHarvey alternatively their problems are in trying to use typical SQL and not realizing the JET engine doesn't play that.

user55340

I call this the "Bleh" pattern. I let Robert deal with it.

Robert Harvey

More like Blargh.

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey The same thing as *DD, something a manager read about in an industry rag

Robert Harvey

I think the guy is using it as an antonym for Fowler's "Anemic Data Model."

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey You sure he doesn't just work with an architect named Rich?

Robert Harvey

10:40 PM

Heh.

Fowler's Ubiquitous Compression Kontrol.

user20683

another Euler down

user55340

@WorldEngineer Which one?

Jimmy Hoffa

@WorldEngineer Did it go down kicking and screaming? What language?

user20683

36

Robert Harvey

You doing them in Scheme or APL?

user20683

10:43 PM

it had it's moments

user20683

Python atm

Robert Harvey

Pfft.

Jimmy Hoffa

I agree with @RobertHarvey

user20683

python has a disturbingly easy idiom for checking palindromes

user55340

I still think 315 is a fun one if you wanna jump to it.

Jimmy Hoffa

10:45 PM

but then we've been writing imperative code long enough to go into auto-pilot like when you accidentally drive straight home in a car; a day later we have a CRUD app when we were trying to write a text parser.

user20683

@MichaelT 453 makes my brain hate everything

user20683

the more I think about how to do it, the more it hurts

Robert Harvey

Another icanhazinverzionz question

0

Q: Should IoC container be part of portable library?

I am seeing the benefits of Portable Class Libraries for centralizing Models and ViewModels to a single code-base. Where should dependency injection management (IoC container) take place, though? My Models have dependencies that I believe would benefit from being supplied through injection. I'm n...

c# dependency-injection mvvm portability ioc

user55340

Try 262.

user20683

I solved 315, I just never implemented it

user20683

10:46 PM

let me go correct that

user55340

Or 393.

Robert Harvey

Ok. Having conversations using Project Euler codes. I'm leaving now. :P

user55340

@RobertHarvey projecteuler.net/problem=262

user55340

> The following equation represents the continuous topography of a mountainous region, giving the elevation h at any point (x,y):

user55340

Robert Harvey

10:48 PM

Blah de blah. Is that a "traveling salesman" problem?

user55340

Though I know that @RobertHarvey will most enjoy projecteuler.net/problem=308

Jimmy Hoffa

@WorldEngineer Agreed about 453 - I don't even understand it, and I sure as hell am not going to exert the effort required to do so because it appears not insignificant

user55340

> If someone uses the above Fractran program to solve Project Euler Problem 7 (find the 10001st prime), how many iterations would be needed until the program produces 2^10001st prime ?

user20683

@JimmyHoffa It's a matrix rotation problem

Robert Harvey

AAUGH!

user20683

10:48 PM

kinda

user20683

it's technically a vector thing if you do it right. I suspect it might actually just be a combinatorics problem

Robert Harvey

So do you guys do these things in order, or do you pick the most interesting ones to do?

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey The general assumption about all of Euler is that they're never TSP

but then I don't know if that's true or not.

user20683

they have a 1 minute rule

user20683

I think that firmly places all of them in P

Jimmy Hoffa

10:49 PM

Didn't know about that

Robert Harvey

It has to give the solution in less than 60 seconds?

user55340

user20683

a good implementation should be able to do so

user55340

@RobertHarvey It doesn't have to, but it can be implemented so it runs in 60 seconds.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT my problems solve list is considerably less complete... somewhere in the rang of 6 or 8 heh

Robert Harvey

10:50 PM

But it's not considered solved unless you can get it to run in under a minute, yes?

@MichaelT Is that useful to a prospective employer?

Jimmy Hoffa

some on paper, most in Haskell, and some I never even submitted because I came up with the general solution and didn't care to construct the problems dataset as that would be too time consuming and tedious

user55340

@RobertHarvey Depends what the employer does. It can show a certain degree of mathematical know-how.

Robert Harvey

@RobertHarvey dependencies through constructors is the way I'm planning to go, but IoC would fulfill those for me. There's a lot of Model generation going on in the library for a complex object-graph. — Ethan 35 secs ago

Jimmy Hoffa

Most of it is very mathy, the graph stuff is the more software relevant problems

user55340

Btw, this is a really just fun one. projecteuler.net/problem=33

Robert Harvey

10:52 PM

Is the IoC container it's own thing? It doesn't even have to be part of his library, does it?

user55340

And you can use it to mess up your kids math teacher.

user55340

> The fraction 49/98 is a curious fraction, as an inexperienced mathematician in attempting to simplify it may incorrectly believe that 49/98 = 4/8, which is correct, is obtained by cancelling the 9s.

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey Yeah, an IoC framework is usually it's own thing, you create an instance of the container and configure it as you like but it's not a part of your software...

@MichaelT "1"

Ok I just made that up.

I don't understand the question.

user55340

Take 49/98 and reduce it. Its 1/2. (4/8).

user55340

Well, lets start with 10/100 - you can cancel the '0's.

user55340

10:55 PM

And get 1/10th.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT the wording is unclear; it says "incorrectly" believe and then says "which is correct" - that math works out that it's correct so I don't know what was said to be incorrect about it

user55340

Well, 49/98 you can cancel the 9s and get the right answer.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT so what's incorrect?

user55340

The way you got to the answer.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT ?

user55340

10:56 PM

You can't just take 12/23 and get 1/3.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT Oh well yeah

I see

user55340

So the method doesn't work for all numbers. But what numbers does it work for?

user20683

you can normally only cancel the low position

Jimmy Hoffa

Aye I know at least that much

user20683

wait

user20683

10:57 PM

every number fraction like that should be representable as a palindrome

Jimmy Hoffa

no?

Robert Harvey

You should be able to use the IoC container independently of your portable library, but you can use the IoC container with the library by registering the library's interfaces with it. The IoC library can, therefore, live anywhere you want. It seems gratuitous to include a dependency on an IoC container in a portable library, unless you expect IoC to be an integral part of the library's functionality. — Robert Harvey 1 min ago

user55340

How do you mean? 49/98 isn't palindromic.

user20683

sorry brain had a fried

Robert Harvey

@MichaelT That's not really digit canceling, though, is it? It's dividing the numerator and denominator by 10.

user20683

11:00 PM

that's why it's trivial

Robert Harvey

Right.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT the easy solution would be generative; the result will be the permutation of 1-9/1-9, so take each of those and multiply them up to the max(N,D) > 99 and look for where the N%10 == D-(D%10)

Robert Harvey

So it's basically an iteration problem.

user20683

most of them are

user20683

of one kind or another

user55340

11:01 PM

Some of them have tricks to get around the iteration.

Jimmy Hoffa

throw in a heuristic or two from a little inspecting of patterns and you're on your way, but generatively still would be a small enough operation set to fit under 60 seconds

user55340

Some use some fairly standard patterns... the collatz one is painful unless you use memonization.

user20683

@MichaelT I can't recall what I did for that one, let me see if I did and still have the code

Robert Harvey

@gnat: You can't always get what you want. ♫ — Robert Harvey 17 secs ago

Jimmy Hoffa

how many choices are there in 9 choose 2? I am so terrible at remembering the rules of combinatorics...

Is that just 9^2?

user20683

11:05 PM

n!/(k!(n-k)! IIRC

user20683

where n = 9 and 2 = k

user20683

is this a permutation or combination?

Robert Harvey

factorial == permutation.

user20683

right

user20683

okay

Jimmy Hoffa

11:08 PM

@WorldEngineer I can never even remember the difference

But the calculator online says they'res 45 choices

user20683

combination = pick with replacement

user20683

permutation says pick without replacement

Jimmy Hoffa

so it's 45 choices each needs to be multipled up to a maximum of 100 times, but the vast majority being multiplied significantly less

conservatively 4500 operations

(very conservatively)

Robert Harvey

Combinations are always the larger number. I remember it as every possible combination.

Whereas permutations are every significant combination.

Jimmy Hoffa

"they'res" ?? WTH kind of word is that? Fuck this virus and fuck this week. Ugh.

oh nevermind it's 81

I was right the first time

up to 8100 operations then, still easily accomplished in a second

user20683

11:13 PM

user20683

best picture of partial application

Jimmy Hoffa

Mostly I'm just curious how they made such life-like ruffles that are edible

user20683

slideshare.net/drboolean/…

user20683

from that slide show

Robert Harvey

4

A: Why nondeterministic algorithm is used to schedule badge calculation?

The reason we use a random distribution is to distribute the load evenly. If you think about the fact that random is, for all intents and purposes, uniformly distributed, then it becomes clear that over large numbers, this scheduling algorithm has to work. Why don't we create an overall schedule...

Jimmy Hoffa

11:16 PM

Robert Harvey

[aaaaaaaaahhhhhhh]

Jimmy Hoffa

From these pictures you may draw your own conclusions about what causes good people to go to hell.

Robert Harvey

@JimmyHoffa I earned my ticket to hell a long time ago.

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey Killed a proc in reno just to watch it die?

Robert Harvey

@JimmyHoffa My mind is having difficulty processing this. Killed a rhino in Prague?

@JimmyHoffa soundsnap.com/node/53847

@JimmyHoffa soundsnap.com/node/2448

Jimmy Hoffa

11:22 PM

Great slides, thanks @WorldEngineer

user20683

looprecur.com

user20683

The company behind it

Jimmy Hoffa

@WorldEngineer Cool.

Robert Harvey

Are those guys consultants?

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey looks like.

I have a hard time imagining them being all "We make code with your team so they can jump in right away!" and handing over Haskell to some corp dev team

Robert Harvey

11:27 PM

One more intelligent group of individuals to bring in and help us out, so that everyone can ignore them and continue doing things like they've always done them.

Jimmy Hoffa

the Haskell part must be for internal tooling they do

user20683

yeah

user20683

I'd imagine

Jimmy Hoffa

Still, they probably do JavaScript right given that, and they definitely know CPS correctly if they can write Haskell so their Node code is probably clean

Robert Harvey

Oh, wait. They're Rent a Coder?

The Main Languages We Use: Javascript, haskell, clojure, html/css

The Main Frameworks We Use: Node/Express, Snap, SASS/Less/Stylus

Ah, but HTML and CSS are not Turing Complete. Oh, wait...

Jimmy Hoffa

11:36 PM

@WorldEngineer appearances are they are using the absolute edge of JavaScript when I see JavaScript with <- in it...

user20683

yeah

user20683

they seem to be bleeding edge of the Crockfordian School

Jimmy Hoffa

Yeah, cool stuff

"Monads, Monoids, and Make Believe" is linked there too by same guy going over all the typical type classes (functors, applicatives, monoids, monads) in JavaScript which is pretty badass

Robert Harvey

@JimmyHoffa Where are you seeing all that? All I see at looprecur.com is a single web page (with parallax scrolling).

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey slideshare.net/drboolean/…

Robert Harvey

11:41 PM

Ooohhh. Shiny.

Jimmy Hoffa

But following up I found looprecur on github and they have a JavaScript typeclasses repo which has a bunch of code reading much like the code in my machinad...

Cool, I'm not the only one who's done these perverse things to JavaScript

hah they even implemented Either which is the only one I bothered implementing..

Robert Harvey

Hmm. Nothing remarkable in the slides. I think I'd have to hear the audio.

Most of the links 500.

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey Yeah I think so. I understand the broader context so the slides make sense to me but it's pretty clear he's got intermediate steps written in that the compiler would do so one can only assume he explains them since they're not actual valid code

github.com/loop-recur

Robert Harvey

@JimmyHoffa Ah, nice. Another link I'll email to myself, but never read.

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey Not really something to read, just somewhere to poke around if you want to see examples of the fringe of FP done in JavaScript which is pretty uncommon

user20683

11:47 PM

drboolean.tumblr.com

Jimmy Hoffa

@WorldEngineer Yeah that's how I found way to the github

user20683

what's a good unit test/function density? It is entirely subjective?

Robert Harvey

Sure wish these folks would put a brief summary of what their blog/tumblr/whatever is all about. I put DISFUNCTIONAL in an email title, I'll never find it again.

@WorldEngineer Function density?

user20683

unit tests per function

user20683

I assume it varies

user20683

11:50 PM

test your base and edges mainly

Robert Harvey

Whatever achieves adequate code coverage.

It varies with the cyclomatic complexity of the method under test.

Jimmy Hoffa

@WorldEngineer Entirely.

user20683

so Team.min(WTF)

Robert Harvey

Pretty much.

In general, though, the more functional and less complex your methods are, the less tests you will need, and the less complex each test will be.

user20683

five = function(){
return 5;
}

user20683

11:54 PM

something like "assert five, 5)"

Robert Harvey

eep.

Looks like TDD. :P

user20683

and?

user20683

TDD is a likely fate for me

Robert Harvey

And you've just stumbled into a holy war.

user20683

already aware

user20683

11:56 PM

there are at least 5 camps in this one

Robert Harvey

Tests and methods like the one you just illustrated are meaningless. The whole "do the smallest thing that passes the test" thing is a red herring.

user20683

DDD, TDD, BDD, no tests, some tests when we feel like it

Robert Harvey

Have tests. That's the most important thing.

user20683

actually that function is a basis function for something like forth

user20683

it's a trivially stupid example of TDD

Jimmy Hoffa

11:57 PM

@WorldEngineer *DD - AKA "InfoWeek said you should" I didn't get past that part because I was struck blind by the sentence. Better call my wife to pick me up from work today...

user20683

figure out where your points of failure are and test those is my view

Jimmy Hoffa

The real puzzle with TDD is writing tests first or last and the part that's lost in that argument is the language differences that effect technical feasability

user20683

yeah

user20683

I tend to be more of the school of last as a check against my stupidity

Jimmy Hoffa

almost everyone who actively does test first is working in a dynamic language, and then they bitch about people in static languages not doing it and claim this is why static languages are terrible, but that's a whole 'nother holy war (and a decidedly stupider one)

user20683

11:59 PM

aye

user20683

I tend to see advantages to both approaches

user20683

but I'm weird

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