Ask Ubuntu General Room

not news, but the answer is "Extremely Painfully"

makes me sad :(

also thanks for grabbing that NAA, thomas

@KazWolfe yes. it is evil.

@Seth wat? systemd is awesome

no, no it is not.

9:45 PM

because it does everything instead of calling other things that do everything?

systemd is clean, effective, simple, and powerful.

plus i find it easier to configure and add/create services

@KazWolfe firewalld and resolved for SystemD break things

like NetworkManager VPN DNS routing/servers

I had to resort to the old ways

(well, that's probably because networkmanager is really dumb)

@KazWolfe actually?

it was because there's no connection between SystemD and Network Manager for DNS server updates

it likes doing dumb things, that's for sure.

so I disabled firewalld and resolved

put iptables back into place

and put my bind9 + dnsmasq setup back into place

all works fine now.

Byte Commander

9:48 PM

systemd hasn't bitten me so far, I can't state that I have any reason to dislike it.

Other than those little evils, SystemD is a friend

and boots and works far faster than my old 14.04 system :P

yeah, so far systemd has done two bad things to me, both of which were pretty much my own fault.

@KazWolfe like a dictator.

@Seth which was also what upstart did.

um, no. upstart didn't replace everything.

9:50 PM

systemd is just faster because it handles more things internally as opposed to having to constantly relegate to everything else.

right, which means that now it is a single point of failure and even more control of your system is left up to 2 guys (although I'm sure they have more people helping them now).

Ubuntu User

google.ca/…

it has a far less complicated workflow that is still completely auditable.

Ubuntu User

The xp image then and now.

BDFL only works if you're actually smart. Which is why it doesn't work in governments. Guess what, lots of people aren't smart.

9:53 PM

if upstart/init failed, your system would still fail.

yes, but they were less likely to fail and bring the whole system down, because they had less footprint.

and if you don't use the features systemd provide, they won't be in the footprint.

@KazWolfe How to really annoy someone in a data centre: Let loose a female and male squirrel under the raised floor... >:-)

If DBus failed through upstart or something, nothing would work anyways. If systemd's DBus failed, the system will halt and try to let you fix it.

@Fabby That's how you get murdered by datacenter ops.

@NathanOsman Not enough jobs

9:55 PM

@KazWolfe that's stupid. They didn't "provide" anything that wasn't essential.

@KazWolfe I never said to do it in sight of cameras nor while they're watching...

Plus, the lack of complex shell scripts which are a huge pain to maintain is definitely a plus.

@Seth Nor did upstart.

Hey, no one said upstart/SystemV weren't bad systems. But systemd is worse.

2

It seems as though your complaint against systemd is that it does literally everything it can. But, why does NetworkManager not cause the same complaints, then?

@KazWolfe yes but it provided 1 essential thing vs what, 8 now? Stop repeating the same red herring.

9:57 PM

@KazWolfe I misread that as "I like doing dumb things!" :D

@ByteCommander Starred!

@Seth wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/…

specifically, here.

@Seth Stared, because that's exactly what it is

@KazWolfe I don't have time for this, but I'm just going to leave this here:

> systemd flies in the face of the Unix philosophy: “do one thing and do it well,” representing a complex collection of dozens of tightly coupled binaries1. Its responsibilities grossly exceed that of an init system, as it goes on to handle power management, device management, mount points, cron, > disk encryption, socket API/inetd, syslog, network configuration, login/session management, readahead, GPT partition discovery, container registration, hostname/locale/time management, and other things. Keep it simple, stupid.

don't put all your eggs in one basket. It will break. Every time.

Scope creep is undeniably evil.

either way, i like systemd and it does good things for me, so i'll continue to use and support it. others might not want to, and they can go set up a system without systemd, just like i set up a system with it.

10:15 PM

Guy walks in , says "You gotta keep it down"

I'm like wat ?

"You guys are making too much noise" I look over at the empty lab, lol. The guy has sense of humor

systemd is like Trump. We're stuck with it so we might as well make the best of it.

5

@NathanOsman I hope that there will come around something much better than systemd

Yes.

@NathanOsman but systemd is actually useful

That's debatable.

10:18 PM

@KazWolfe Trump will probably do some useful things too. Like kill TPP.

@Serg was he really joking? haha.

sudo apt purge systemd && sudo apt install upstart

Sorry. Somehow I made the systemd discussion political :(

@KazWolfe that's like saying move to Mexico.

@KazWolfe sudo apt install emacs

@NathanOsman well I almost did it several times myself.. oh wait, I just did.

10:20 PM

@Seth well if you want to get rid of upstart, you can easily get rid of it. so.

I really should close this tab and finish my homework.

@Seth Yeah, he was. HE was like "I heard you breathing". He works in office accross the hall and came out to stretch out. The labs on the weekends can get really quiet. As in horror-movie style quiet

@Serg Well that's nice

@Serg I can be scary quiet.

@NathanOsman You'lle fit in perfectly here. Come to Denver, lol

10:21 PM

LOL, GRID, runs at 150-200 FPS on my computer...

<+mOrphz> damn it :/
<@Lego> damn it :/
<+mOrphz> stop that
<@Lego> stop that
<+mOrphz> :D
<@Lego> :D
<+mOrphz> Lego smells
<@Lego> Lego smells
<+mOrphz> /quit
quit: (Lego) (~leet@apex|Lego.user.gamesnet) (Quit)

ah, bash.org

@TheXed it runs fine on my laptop with Intel graphics :P

@NathanOsman I know, but 200 FPS is awesome..

10:41 PM

more bash.org

<xterm> The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

holly terminals, I haven't seen bash.org stuff since high school

bash.org is funny as hell

10:58 PM

hunter2

edwinksl

*******

weird

Don't you hate , when you're trying to insert a sentence and the other guy just keeps talking at the same time as you do ? Constant collisions

@TheXed useless on a 60Hz monitor...

***********

hmm, it works for me.

(or my anonymous transcript window doesn't show it)

also, i want an IRC client for this room.

and i just got mortarboard on meta.

@KazWolfe write one. can't be too hard considering all the chat bots people make.

11:09 PM

@Seth but i'm lazy :(

and i have no idea how irc works

11:24 PM

@KazWolfe IRC forever!

@NathanOsman 75hz :-P

11:42 PM

@Serg Human communication doesn't have TCP's reliable, ordered, and error-checked delivery of a stream of data!!! :P ;-)

2

True

I knew you were going to star that!!! :D

@Fabby but you can negotiate TCP

@KazWolfe Maybe you can, but my head is missing an RJ45 port! :P

@Fabby SYN

11:46 PM

@KazWolfe Fúçk!

:D

still, humans can negotiate TCP connections over UDP

chaskes

@Seth @NathanOsman My openSUSE tumbleweed install blew up during an upgrade. X died and couldn't restart, and I had no interest in taking time to figure it out. I'm getting fed up with rolling distros <cough> Arch too </cough>

That's why I use ubuntu :)

chaskes

@Seth :), but I used to think Ubuntu should go rolling. No more.

Humans need to negotiate their own brains first

11:53 PM

1 rep answers = free flags

chaskes

Oh, yeah, I just watch the recent activity for answers by names I've never seen before.