Game Development

I can imagine apple, microsoft and google being persons who compete with each others' patent stupidity "ohhhhhhhhh that's good one, apple" like the rappers do on the mocking contests

Jon

5:19 PM

But then if you can't have software patents, it opens the door to well, what is the point of patents in the first place?

MickLH

I'm just gonna sign off lol

user4704

patents are broken

Seth Battin

yah

user4704

but Apple/MS/Google aren't evil here

user4704

They generally only engage in litigation with eachother, almost certainly as part of the requirement-to-defend they have to satisify in order to keep the patent.

Seth Battin

5:24 PM

also a problem, the patent system is heirarchy, and everything in software is derivative of something else

user4704

They have limited-to-no history of actually going after smaller companies over patents (especially compared to patent troll companies) and have frequently gone to bat for smaller companies.

Seth Battin

there is a patent on jetpack

user4704

e.g., the Lodsys case

OMGtechy

@SethBattin oh god

Seth Battin

@JoshPetrie i buy that

@OMGtechy well, it's interesting, because that patent doesn't cover a workign device, and patents don't have to

Noctrine

5:25 PM

The Uncle who works for Nintendo - A choose your own adventure game correlatedcontents.com/misc/UWWFN/UWWFN.html

user4704

The government and it's machinery are the issue. :(

Seth Battin

but anyone who does invent a workign device can also get a patent on that invention, becuase it's novel

but they may never have freedome to operate (build their device) because they need rights from the holder of "jetpack"

so it's kind of a license holder system, in a wacky way

apply those same rules to software: we know how well licenses work out

rather, how they can work out badly

Noctrine

I don' t know why, but this game feels slightly scary to me

Jon

doesn't really seem like a game to me

more of a interactive story

each page just presents a single option most of the time

Noctrine

Isn't that what a Choose your own adventure is?

Wait till 7

Lasse

5:38 PM

oh, found the first ending it seems

seemed too boring though, I doubt I want to find out about the rest :P

Noctrine

I've got two, but I can't figure out how to do anymore

Jon

yeah i'm not a big fan of text heavy games :)

Noctrine

Oh, it explains how to get the others

or gives a hint

Seth Battin

Has anyone tried to play that massive space horror twine game?

Jon

naw too busy writing code

Seth Battin

5:50 PM

oh, it's for sale now

well, it used to be free

jgwaltneiv.itch.io/the-terror-aboard-the-speedwell

Almo

fuck.

xcode crashes when it tries to unlock the interface project in p4

i'm so annoyed they removed P4 support from xcode

it's just git now

Jon

programmer frustration sucks man

Seth Battin

found that jetpack patent: google.com/patents/US3443775

Jon

so lets say you write software that simulates a physical patent.. are you breaching patent laws?

Noctrine

Finished. That game was pretty cool - if you like text games I recommend it.

Lasse

6:05 PM

so I implemented this geometry shader culling, but it halved my framerate

I guess it's too naive implementation to do AABB collision for each polygon

#version 330

layout(triangles) in;
layout(triangle_strip, max_vertices = 3) out;

in vec2 texcoord[];
in vec4 vColor[];
in vec3 vNormal[];

out vec2 fTexcoord;
out vec4 fColor;
out vec3 fNormal;

bool TestCollision(vec3 aCenter, vec3 aSize, vec3 bCenter, vec3 bSize)
{
	vec3 center = abs(aCenter - bCenter);
	vec3 size = aSize + bSize;
	return !(center.x > size.x || center.y > size.y || center.z > size.z);
}

void main() {

	// Generate AABB
	vec3 minValue = gl_in[0].gl_Position.xyz / gl_in[0].gl_Position.w;

Jon

if you only check polygons that are close it would shave a lot of cpu

Lasse

I culled the whole meshes first from octree by filtering the octree node with frustum

I guess that wasn't enough

Jon

well don't you have like million of polys?

Lasse

well, yeah

I guess it's faster to draw a million polygons instead of culling them off polygon-by-polygon?

Jon

parallax is in

well, horizontal parallax.. I want to also add a subtle verticle parallax effect

need to find better colors too

or...

or just have one outline?

Lasse

6:17 PM

I think two are fine, but I think I should see it moving first

Jon

k hold on

oscar.rpr

Hello, I just finished my first released game (Arkanoid clone with Unity in 2D) (I made three other games but never released them), and I'm not sure where to go from here, should I keep making simple games in 2D? Or a simple game in 3D? what should be my next step? any suggestions? thanks

Jon

oh, I fixed a bug in the monogame framework today

SpartanDonut

@oscar.rpr work on something you are passionate about

Jon

@oscar.rpr do what feels right man. you already achieved something most do not, and that is releasing a game.

Roy T.

6:20 PM

gamasutra.com/view/feature/134829/…

"Carmack on Rage"

Jon

looks better in game.. but yeah

that is zoomed out, and moving pretty fast.

i think i need to slow down the back mountains more

Lasse

yeah I think they're too fast

oscar.rpr

That's the problem, I'm out of ideas, I don't know if I should do another clone with some modifications or try a new idea.

because I got an idea, but it seems like already existed something too similar, and I want to learn something different in each game

Jon

what should move faster.. clouds or mountains?

Lasse

I think the mountains should move a bit slower

do the clouds move when the screen doesn't?

Roy T.

6:25 PM

Isnt the parallax the wrong way around?

Things at a larger distance move slower, not faster

Jon

yeah, fixing the speed.. i just finished putting in the parallax

thanks

Roy T.

Unless you want to go for 'rotation'

And I'd say clouds are further away than mountains... but thats debatable :)

Jon

yeah, well that is what I was asking

in the gifs, there are 4 layers.. 2 mountains, 2 clouds.. first mountain is fastest.. down to cloud 2 which is slowest

Seth Battin

the clouds ought ot occupy more than a single depth

top close, bottom distant

Jon

3

Seth Battin

6:31 PM

er... i didn't notice them having more than one, at least

DwarfSlice

@Jon The background should move slower than the foreground.

Jon

slower

you are right @DwarfSlice

DwarfSlice

@Jon Yes.

Jon

That is the advice I was looking for :D

DwarfSlice

Basically the further forward it is, the faster it should move. The further back it is, the slower it should move.

John McDonald

6:32 PM

The sun moves?

Jon

yeah, i have day/night cycles

trees grow, clouds move

dynamic world :)

John McDonald

ok, so it's not moving with the camera, it's moving because it's moving toward night-time

Jon

yeah

I think I should draw the clouds different colors too

since you can't really see the layering

so basically, I should barely be moving the background at all

Seth Battin

i think the distant items should be near 0

the sun should be 0, of course

but the mountains should be barely above that

Lasse

I don't see any difference for using the geometry shader face culling when there are about 8k triangles in the rendering queue with some of them outside of screen, the draw call always takes about 4.5ms

which is weirdly much

Seth Battin

6:48 PM

most of the proprietary hardware of a graphics card is involved in culling

perhaps it's happening on your behalf whether you like it or not

Lasse

yeah, and it's really inefficient when the triangle count is about 10 million

framerate drops from 60+ to about 20-30

I guess I need to scrap the idea of face culling in shader :D

it was just a fun test anyways

Jon

?

Lasse

that's a lot better

Seth Battin

it still looks like the ground is moving the slowest

Jon

maybe the first layer should just be static.

like the backmost mountain

Seth Battin

6:56 PM

are the clouds moving in the scene even when the camera is static?

Jon

yeah, but not right now

Seth Battin

ah, maybe that's what it is

Jon

i turned off the wind to test parallax

so it isn't that right now

Seth Battin

no...the mountains are moving faster the ground

maybe i have the wrong idea here, but i feel like if the ground moves 10 pixels to the left, the mountains should move, say 2 pixels left

Jon

ok wait

i think I know why this is looking weird

Seth Battin

6:58 PM

but right now it looks like the ground moves 10 and the mountains move 12

Lasse

rastergrid.com/blog/2010/02/…

I don't understand how that would be any faster than to just cull them in single pass and render them right away

or am I misunderstanding something there

Jon

yeah, its going the wrong way

lol

Pip

@MickLH so true

Anyhow, some jokes are in order

Swag* &;

Get the reference?

Swag() { Swag() }

Swag overflow

Anyhow, I need a name to put on the back of my robotics shirt, and those two are already taken

Someone else suggested Codethulu, but idk

DwarfSlice

@Pip Robocalypse

Pip

ooh, adding it to the list

thanks

Jon

7:09 PM

does that make sense?

I don't get what you guys mean by making the background move slower than the foreground

if i do that, then it goes backwards

Pip

which looks good

DwarfSlice

@Jon Still not quite right. The middle layer is moving slower than the background layer

give me a few minutes and I'll make a quick anim in AE and show you what I mean

Pip

if the background seems to go backwards it suggests a change in perspective

but yeah, Dwarf is correct

Jon

What is wrong with this?

Seth Battin

@Jon It does make sense, and Dawrfslice is right that the back layer looks wrong because it's moving to fast

so say you move a camera left,and everything it sees moves corsepondingly right in its view

but things that are farther away will move less to the right

in absolutely screen distance

Jon

7:13 PM

yeah.. so in the above gif.. isn't the mountains in front moving faster than the mountains behind?

Seth Battin

for the same reason that a given distance far away appears smaller in the scene than that same distance does up close

DwarfSlice

@Jon No, it's moving slower

Jon

but it isn't though

DwarfSlice

googled that gif

only has 2 layers though

Jon

ok

i think i see now

Seth Battin

7:15 PM

worth a thousand words, as always

Jon

you are not seeing my foreground

consider the buildings and trees my ground tiles

Seth Battin

yup

Jon

ok the mountains need to move the same way

Seth Battin

but less

they need to move less than the ground does

DwarfSlice

@Jon how many parallax layers do you have? 3?

I see the foreground, but it looks to me like there's three layers, the middle one is the one I was talking about

Seth Battin

7:16 PM

there's two mountain layers, and what appears to be a single cloud layer

and the sun, which is hopefully at infinite distance and odesn't move at all

Jon

two clouds

DwarfSlice

@SethBattin including the foreground, or in addition to?

Seth Battin

in addition to the foreground

the different cloud layer distances are indistinguishable, imo

DwarfSlice

give me a sec

►

also a good example

Lasse

I've never seen such extreme normal map, is this really how it should be? dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/27198869/plasma_norm.png

MickLH

7:20 PM

looks right to me

Lasse

I thought the normals were usually more subtle in those maps

MickLH

Looks like there's some minor glitches

DwarfSlice

@Jon here we go, this is a great example:

Seth Battin

god damnit, image uploads never work for me

DwarfSlice

see how the middle layer moves slower than the foreground, and the furthest back layer moves slower still

Seth Battin

7:21 PM

MickLH

@Lasse who wants subtle, everyone loves that hyper exaggerated bump mapping and specular

Lasse

lol

well I was thinking more like this: forum.openframeworks.cc/uploads/default/5497/…

not that much extreme green or red color

Jon

ok thanks guys

MickLH

that one looks extreme-ly fine to me lol

Lasse

lol

Jon

7:22 PM

I was thinking about it all wrong

DwarfSlice

@SethBattin put ! in front of it and just paste it by itself, that forces it to render as an image

@SethBattin yeah that's a good parallax

Seth Battin

brilliant, thanks

Jon

whoa that one @SethBattin really illustrates it

Seth Battin

yeah, it's really hard to describe

obviously

it's like scaling the translation

i think in that one, the bushes are moving at a scale greater than 1

the sidewalk is probably at 1

and then everything else gets less and less

Jon

yeah i overcomplicated everything basically.

Pip

7:32 PM

yep

MickLH

there are multiple foreground bush layers

each sparsely populated

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

What's the condition for chatrooms to freeze? Inactivity in a prolonged period?

DwarfSlice

@William'MindWorX'Mariager Yes.

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

Alrighty

Pip

yep

hey Mindy :)

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

7:35 PM

Heya Pippy

Jon

the pipmeister

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

The Pi(m)pster

MickLH

damn inefficient stomach, burned all my fuel already G2G

Pip

ey

Any more ideas for names btw? I have Codethulu and Robocalypse (the latter from Todders) so far

MickLH

So why are you still looking? Robocalypse. Done

jk jk but that one is pretty good lol

Pip

7:40 PM

was looking for a more programmer-esque name

An example is: Swag* &;

get the reference? :P

Shroeder

Name for what @Pip

Pip

not really a name, just something to put on the back of my robotics shirt

Shroeder

Jonny5

Done

Favorite Robot NA

MickLH

@Pip I'm gonna tell on you to Mr Donut!

Pip

Might call the robot that, thanks for the suggestion

@MickLH why?

Shroeder

7:43 PM

I always liked the name If Not is Nothing

Pip

ooh, I like that one

Shroeder

Only a programmer would get that

DwarfSlice

@Pip Did somebody not-me suggest robocalypse first

coderobo

MickLH

no he's obviously referring to you

Pip

lol

Shroeder

7:44 PM

toddler programmer?

who

Pip

Toddlers

(@SpartanDonut)

Shroeder

ahh

MickLH

pip why do you tag people just to get me in trouble

SpartanDonut

Ah... everyone's favorite mispronunciation of my former name

@MickLH <3

Shroeder

So last night I spent a few hours on the pants for my game, and realized later that I hadn't made a slot for pants on my equipment screen but instead had a back slot for a cape there:( woops

MickLH

7:45 PM

@SpartanDonut <3 :D does this mean ..

Shroeder

Hello @JoshPetrie

user4704

Does anybody think the 'indie' tag adds any useful information?

Shroeder

It seems implied @JoshPetrie

MickLH

@JoshPetrie I think useful is the word to italicize there

@Shroeder link to your game

SpartanDonut

I think it potentially can but I think it's being misused

Roy T.

7:47 PM

I'd say it doesn't add any info

Seth Battin

@JoshPetrie not in the way it is most frequently used, no

Shroeder

github.com/shroeder/GameRPG

user4704

Hm.

user4704

Interesting.

Seth Battin

perhaps to distinguish a question about industry or jobs

SpartanDonut

7:47 PM

^

Shroeder

Is anyone on the site developing a non-indie game?

SpartanDonut

That was my thought

Seth Battin

but that's not common and definitely not the way the tag gets applied

SpartanDonut

But then at the same time it's like you would need an AAA tag or something so I dunno

Probably not worth having

MickLH

@Shroeder Indies are sortof taboo here

You should at least have worked on CoD or something to be here

Shroeder

7:48 PM

Whats the difference between a game created by an individual, and an 'Indie' game

Pip

@MickLH :)

user4704

Going to post to meta about it.

Shroeder

I have played enough CoD to qualify

lol

MickLH

@JoshPetrie Don't forget to link it!

Shroeder

I am frustrated with cs

MickLH

7:50 PM

Do you think CS is a game?

Shroeder

Why haven't they added a user option through steam to disable avatar pictures...

Pip

idk

user4704

0

Q: What value does the "indie" tag provide?

As of this writing, 18 questions are tagged indie. What value does this tag provide (if any), and what guidelines should we provide in its wiki to encourage correct use?

Shroeder

Letting 14 year olds set their profile pictures and make everyone else have to deal with it

Noctrine

Why does that tag keep coming back :|

Shroeder

7:53 PM

Can you decommission a tag permanently?

Seth Battin

i was going to ask, if a tag is banished, can it just be re-added by the next OP who wants to use it?

Noctrine

We can't :\

SpartanDonut

Woohoo! I might be done for the weekend! Or until someone emails me needing something...

user4704

We can't do it, tags can be blacklisted but only by SE.

SpartanDonut

What to do with my time

Seth Battin

7:54 PM

if there was a tag/null, you could make it a synonym

user4704

I can remove it easily.

Seth Battin

you know...like /dev/null

user4704

Tag migration to the empty tag.

Seth Battin

things tagged thusly are not actually tagged at all

Noctrine

nuke, nuke, nuke, nuke!

user4704

7:55 PM

@Pip Durp. :(

Pip

:P

user4704

Stupid site remembering my stupid filter selections.

Pip

lol

no probs :)

Lasse

what's a chrome map on 3d model? searching google for chrome maps is not that useful......

Pip

It is really hard to type with a dog's head on your arm.... she's too cute to push off though :)

Seth Battin

7:57 PM

it sounds like a specular map

Shroeder

why does google insert / into c# when typed in the browser window

Lasse

there's separate specular map, and it's almost identical, but the chrome map has some things blacked out

Seth Battin

@Shroeder because it needs to be url encoded

MickLH

@Lasse It might be a roughness / smoothness map

Lasse

hmm

Seth Battin

7:58 PM

# is an important symbol in a full uri

Shroeder

really?

Seth Battin

oh yes

Lasse

yeah, see wikipedia heading links

user4704

Yeah, it's an anchor reference.

Seth Battin

Fragment identifier

In computer hypertext, a fragment identifier is a short string of characters that refers to a resource that is subordinate to another, primary resource. The primary resource is identified by a Uniform Resource Identifier (URI), and the fragment identifier points to the subordinate resource. The fragment identifier introduced by a hash mark # is the optional last part of a URL for a document. It is typically used to identify a portion of that document. The generic syntax is specified in RFC 3986. The hash mark separator in URIs does not belong to the fragment identifier. == Basics == In UR...

Shroeder

7:59 PM

uri is the mapping path for ajax calls and server requests?

the uri template?

Lasse

HTML element

An HTML element is an individual component of an HTML document or web page, once this has been parsed into the Document Object Model. HTML is composed of a tree of HTML elements and other nodes, such as text nodes. Each element can have HTML attributes specified. Elements can also have content, including other elements and text. HTML elements represent semantics, or meaning. For example, the title element represents the title of the document. In the HTML syntax, most elements are written with a start tag and an end tag, with the content in between. An HTML tag is composed of the name of the element...

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