Game Development

Alex M.

3:00 PM

I'll consider that once I get home, right now it would take too long

Noctrine

What you are asking, is maybe a feature request that the low quality bit be a bit more aggressive towards new users.

Alex M.

I'm at work

SpartanDonut

I would probably suggest we approach it incrementally

Wardy

DAft question but ... What is a "new user"?

SpartanDonut

Implement the form that will never come to be first, and then if we are still having problems with people abusing the form, implement repercussions if necessary

Wardy

3:01 PM

is it defined by time? Rep? Distance from server?

Wind direction

number of times user has logged in ?

SpartanDonut

Phases of the moon, actually

Alex M.

number of questions asked

Wardy

oh ok

Alex M.

and answers posted

Noctrine

According to the system, a user with under 10 rep is a new user.

Wardy

3:02 PM

see i don't answer much

technically i could be classed as a new user

Alex M.

the more a user posted on the site, the more one should expect for him to be more familiarized with the site

Noctrine

But it shouldn't be hard for sites to adjust where necessary.

SpartanDonut

A user will no longer be deemed a new user after the first full moon after the second new moon.

Noctrine

SOs rep requirements are higher than the other sites.

user4704

1

Q: Should merging to a blank tag allow bulk removal of that tag?

I am attempt to obliterate a bad tag (subjective, in this case, although it was originally the chunks tag that ended up this way due to some experimentation; also note that I've since manually cleaned up the tags on each question). When I go to the merge UI for the tag, and leave the merge targe...

Wardy

3:02 PM

but on GD:SE i don't answer because I don't feel knowlegable enough

user4704

Yay!

Noctrine

:O

Alex M.

I have like 1k rep on code golf from a single answer

SpartanDonut

@JoshPetrie oh sure he responds to your posts

Alex M.

but I have no idea how that site actually works and its rules

I'm a new user to that site despite my amount of rep

SpartanDonut

3:03 PM

Still waiting for an update on my paste images to chat feature request...

Alex M.

rep is BAD to test for knowledge of the site

Wardy

I am attempt to obliterate a bad tag

SpartanDonut

I was hoping my script bump would bring it some attention but alas

Wardy

what kind of engrish is that?

Noctrine

@Alex Gotta move progressively, after they make the change we can try and get it improve don

user4704

3:04 PM

heh, fixed

Almo

I don't answer on GDSE because few of the questions are things I could actually help with.

lots of shader questions

SpartanDonut

^

Almo

or stuff from engines I've never used

Noctrine

@Almo I showed you physics questions :p

Wardy

thats better Josh

SpartanDonut

3:04 PM

I'm basically just not qualified for most of this here site

Wardy

lol

Almo

I know physics

not how to use physics engines

big difference

SpartanDonut

Physics engines make me rage. I don't get them :(

Noctrine

I like the black magic quote Icy posted awhile ago.

Almo

they almost do what you want. but never handle the edge conditions right

yeah

that was prime quotage

user4704

3:05 PM

I don't know, there are still lots of questions in the unanswered queue that could be closed as duplicates, or because they're off-topic.

Almo

I'm having a hard time concentrating

Noctrine

Also a ton of questions that can use helpful edits. Every bit helps!

Almo

will have to close this window for a while

Noctrine

I dislike accepted answers for meta discussions.

Icy Defiance

@Noctrine pfft that wasn't a quote. I came up with it myself. *so proud*

Noctrine

3:07 PM

-1

A: Can we please be more friendly to new users?

Let's count the number of ways we show new users how to ask a good question. First, when the user hits the homepage of this website. Second, when he clicks "ask question". Third, after their question is placed on hold. (Not closed. The difference is important.) If a new user can't be ...

:O

Icy Defiance

lol I ranted a little

SpartanDonut

@Noctrine I need review queue privileges D:

user4704

@IcyDefiance You think? :P

Noctrine

That comes at 500 rep, you've got that.

Oh wait, it only gives you two of them. You need close ability for the Close queue.

SpartanDonut

I have first posts and late answers available only

user4704

3:09 PM

Kinda makes sense.

SpartanDonut

And every time I've looked (which honestly isn't often) they are empty

I need to hit that 2k mark so I can review low quality and suggested edits

Though if the greyed out numbers I see are correct... those are empty too xD

user4704

Almost all our queues are empty most of the time, except for the close queue.

user4704

Which is usually huge.

user4704

~20 to 30.

Icy Defiance

eh, if the queues are empty, that just means more people need to hit the unanswered list to put more things into those queues.

Alex M.

3:13 PM

@Noctrine btw, looking at that deepika guy yesterday

I kinda wondered

what should we do in the hypothetical situation where a user who is not able to ask proper questions because of language barriers keeps on asking questions?

like, it's pretty obvious we can't teach him English

and he won't ever output proper questions until he learns it

Almo

then we can't have him on the site since English a requirement.

user4704

"I'm building an MMO game at the moment, starting from scratch (both in resources and knowledge related to Unity and all things Unity)." Ouch.

Alex M.

MMO lol

Almo

why does everyone think they can build an MMO?

o_0

they're hideously complex things

(yes i came back I need to stop)

SpartanDonut

I'd like to create a heavily instanced MMO

Does that help? :P

Alex M.

3:17 PM

the guys with

Icy Defiance

here's an interesting question: gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/82260/…

at first, I thought there's just not enough info there, but it sounds like a bug with unity

Alex M.

"I want to make a MMO and I'm not sure what kind of hardware I'll need. I'm expecting tens of millions of players."

Icy Defiance

and googling around, I find hints toward his problem in a few places

but no solid bug reports

user4704

It could very well be a problem with Unity -- many games (and game engines) actually handle tabbing out quite poorly.

user4704

And can't recover.

Noctrine

3:19 PM

He's not actually making a MMO, he just believes he is.

user4704

Do you have Unity? You could try to reproduce it in the simplest game you can make.

Icy Defiance

I do have it, but probably not the version he's using. I'll ask him for that.

Wardy

@AlexM. Even the biggest MMO's dont have that many ... at leat not concurrently anyway

user4704

If you can, it's probably a bug. Alternatively we can migrate the question to the Unity site.

Noctrine

I thought Unity ran in a kind of Windowed Fullscreen setup.

Wardy

3:20 PM

theres a unity site ?

user4704

Well, not an official SE one.

Alex M.

stop sending people to the unity Q&A btw

unity is ontopic here

user4704

But Unity Answers uses a SE clone.

Alex M.

there's still no valid reason to send them there

user4704

Sure there is.

Alex M.

3:21 PM

it's like sending people from pets.SE to yahoo answers

Wardy

any game dev related chat is surely on topic

unity's SE equiv is balls

Alex M.

it's not that it's bad

Wardy

no1 replies there

user4704

There's nothing wrong with sending people to alternative resources, especially when it doesn't seem likely they'll get an answer here.

user4704

We do it all the time.

Almo

3:22 PM

I've found decent info at unity answers

Alex M.

doesn't seem likely

user4704

Even within SE sites, because there are so many with overlapping domains.

Almo

i used to be front page in rep there

Alex M.

there are many !unity questions that are never answered

user4704

It doesn't hurt anything to send him there.

Alex M.

3:22 PM

yet we don't send those people to other resources

no it doesn't

but it makes the question and the site feel inappropriate

Wardy

i keep getting corrected when i tag something with "unity"

should be "Unity3D"

Alex M.

an unanswered question is better than an unanswered question with "we're not good enough, please go somewhere else"

user4704

We do it all the time.

Wardy

M$ released some frameworky thing called Unity

Alex M.

@JoshPetrie you keep telling me that

are you hoping that will make it better or something?

Noctrine

3:23 PM

The benefit of UnityAnswers is that the developers are there, and when they see something that is a real actual problem in their work - they are responsive.

Alex M.

the thing is

user4704

No, I'm telling you what the policy is. You can't change that policy by complaining about it in chat.

Alex M.

to a visitor an unanswered question might seem like something that didn't receive attention

if he sees someone telling OP to go to some other resource because gd.se is not good enough

SpartanDonut

I find Unity Answers to be significantly lower quality in their answers than here. I really like the policing that we do

user4704

We send people asking mod questions to other sites, we send people asking questions about specific software to other sites, we send people asking questions that are too broad and discussion-oriented to other sites.

Alex M.

3:24 PM

he will most likely go to that resource directly and forget about gd.se

user4704

Only the last are off-topic.

PsychO PhobiA

Hi all!

SpartanDonut

Hey you

user4704

The rest stay open.

PsychO PhobiA

Still working on pong.

Alex M.

3:25 PM

the difference between too broad and stuff

is that unity questions are ontopic

SpartanDonut

@PsychOPhobiA awesome

Alex M.

and should be answered here

user4704

So are mod questions.

Pip

Go work on it more!

Noctrine

Awesome. Can't wait to see your finished result. @PsychO

SpartanDonut

3:25 PM

@AlexM. ++

user4704

If you have a problem with this, post on meta.

Alex M.

ok

I'll be sure to post on meta

so that you will reply :A

and everything will end there

Wardy

@Noctrine Thats also the biggest issue with it ... they only support that type of question, never anything more "How do I ..."

Alex M.

except for maybe two people, everyone who's active on meta is currently in this chatroom

like, right now

SpartanDonut

@AlexM. he just posts his opinion on the matter, generally backed up by policy and people can vote on it. Anyone with a differing opinion should answer and/or vote on answers they agree with

Wardy

3:27 PM

@JoshPetrie Other sites in that context is usually some other SE site

Not completely off the SE network

SpartanDonut

I had a differing opinion than Josh yesterday and the vote is split pretty well

Alex M.

@SpartanDonut it just seems like lame bureaucracy to me

but ok

user4704

@Wardy No, there is no "Minecraft modding" SE site, or "Skyrim modding" SE site.

user4704

We've left comments for people posting such questions suggesting that they try asking over at appropriate forums for those sites.

Alex M.

I do like sending people to meta

it's a good way to end a discussion

Noctrine

3:30 PM

The ideal way that this plays out is, a person comes back and gets some fake internet points for posting how they solved the problem.

user4704

@AlexM. That doesn't matter. Meta is where policy is set; it's far more suitable to preserving the discussion and engaging users (lots more users visit meta than here) than chat is.

Alex M.

I also use it

Seth Battin

@trevorpowell I can't believe you're missing your chance to pimp your engine as a solution to that glowy-line question. Even though the person wants android...but that's a minor thing

SpartanDonut

Meta is the one area I have sending me emails when there are new posts

Alex M.

Aug 10 at 12:19, by Alex M.

post on meta

SpartanDonut

3:30 PM

I love meta... which is somewhat ironic because I have opinions on how the site should be used but I don't really used the site....

Maybe I shouldn't meta :I

Alex M.

@JoshPetrie tbh, I'd rather reach a conclusion here then start a debate based on it on meta

than just end a discussion in the middle

SpartanDonut

@AlexM. I think hashing out ideas in chat is great but the discussion should conclude in meta

Wardy

Answer<T> : "Ask if its ok to ask on meta then ask"

user4704

@AlexM. Okay, post about that on meta too.

Pip

@JohnMcDonald nice "Skippy Fish Water Sound Collection" :)

Wardy

3:31 PM

maybe we should add that to the template close reasons

user4704

@Wardy We're full; we'd have to remove or combine some.

user4704

(Pretty sure we're full.)

Wardy

Full ?

its a db

lol

Noctrine

It has a limit :\

user4704

You only get a handful of custom close reasons.

Alex M.

3:33 PM

@JoshPetrie damn

you really like this, ok

SpartanDonut

What's not to like?

Alex M.

well as I said

it's a good way to make people shut up and stop annoying you with things you don't like to talk about

so I used it too

user4704

@Wardy Just checked, three is the limit.

SpartanDonut

On the flip side its easier to get all your thoughts out into one manageable piece in Meta than it is in chat

Wardy

seems like a stupid limit

Answer<T> : "Ask if its ok to ask on meta then ask"

Noctrine

3:35 PM

Even if a discussion changes his mind, it doesn't set policy :\

Posting on meta is like getting two birds with one stone.

user4704

You can get SE to give you more if you really have a compelling need.

Alex M.

it doesn't

user4704

We don't.

Alex M.

but there's no reason to end a discussion with it like that

when it's something serious

user4704

The custom-close reasons are supposed to be used to address systematic problem questions -- things that come often and result in laborious explaination every time.

Alex M.

3:36 PM

and you're a fucking moderator

at least bring it to a conclusion then post on meta

user4704

That's not how the site works.

user4704

I'm sorry you don't like it.

user4704

But you have to remember that this site is not about the chat.

user4704

The chat is a third-class citizen on SE, at best.

Alex M.

it's not about chat man, it's about people talking

user4704

3:37 PM

Which they can do on meta.

user4704

Where they are supposed to.

user4704

So they don't have to repeat themselves on meta later.

Alex M.

my god

user4704

So that the rest of the community can vote on the presented options and decide which is the best.

Alex M.

I'm not dismissing posting on meta

user4704

3:38 PM

You're welcome to keep trying to have that discussion here if you really want, but it won't change how the site works until you post it on meta.

user4704

And until it gets a consensus.

Alex M.

I'm dismissing stopping discussions in the middle to post them on meta

which is what you always do

wait until we post on meta and don't join if you don't want to discuss

user4704

Meta is for discussion about the site. By the same token, questions that are appropriate for the site should be asked on the site, not here.

user4704

Like I said, you can keep talking about it here if you want.

Alex M.

I'd facepalm, but there are people around me

user4704

3:39 PM

I feel like that's a waste of your time and everybody else's, but you can do it.

Alex M.

and I thought SO meta where they discuss if an answer should end with a period or an exclamation mark was bad

user4704

I am not forbidding you from talking about it, I'm telling you meta is where it's supposed to go.

Alex M.

here we let some unwritten rigid rules to eat us whole

Seth Battin

@AlexM. it's not obvious what is bothering you here. Go on meta if you want to complain for real. Or stay here and have it mean nothing. Your call.

Pip

hey Seth!

Alex M.

3:41 PM

thanks for your contribution

really helpful

@JoshPetrie and I'm telling you I'd post it on meta

Batophobia

Are we having a meta discussion about the meta?

user4704

Okay.

Alex M.

but your approach with stopping a discussion in the middle just to continue it on meta is not very productive, it just stops all trains of thought

we can post something we come up with here on meta, and if someone from outside the chat thinks it's wrong, they can post an answer there too

Noctrine

The way that it was originally posted, just made me think of when we tell people to post on the real site when they have an actual question.

Not a full point of outrage. He wasn't saying, Stop talking about this now and go to meta

SpartanDonut

I can't speak for Josh but I don't think you should take every time he tells you to post it on meta as ending the discussion... I think it's good to encourage us to use the tools we're supposed to so that instead of just complaining about it we can make it happen

Alex M.

3:43 PM

I've seen instances of people posting the question after getting an answer here

SpartanDonut

Just because someone says "Post about it on meta" doesn't mean the discussion has to end in chat

Alex M.

and the original answerer posting his answer

it works just as well

the SE indexes knowledge

Noctrine

@SpartanDonut This (sorry about reply)

Alex M.

it doesn't care if the knowledge was generated somewhere else prior to posting it

SpartanDonut

replies don't bother me

Seth Battin

3:44 PM

@Noctrine Same. Sorry for the reply reply.

Batophobia

I think I might have to side with Alex here, after all when comments get out of hand we encourage the discussion to move to chat

that's another thing

here we go...

no we don't "go"

(guys discussion is good. lets not get too upset that we are discussing how we should discuss. let's be civil :P)

Noctrine

3:45 PM

@AlexM. This is ultimately why we recommend other places where people can get information from.

Seth Battin

:)

Alex M.

@Noctrine do we bring it back?

Noctrine

@AlexM. Where possible. Ideally.

Alex M.

does someone go on unity answers to get the answer to a question that was not answered here

and post it here

Seth Battin

@Pip HEya, how's it going? Did that school project work out? (That was you, right?)

Alex M.

3:46 PM

@SethBattin please calm down

Noctrine

There have been a few times where questions have been crossposted on Unity Answers and here

Almo

@SpartanDonut But how should we discuss the way we discuss discussing?!?

Alex M.

I'm not really sure you understand the nature of this discussion

but that's ok, you just jumped out and said nothing really

Almo

I mean really, that's the real question here.

Alex M.

so no effects were done

SpartanDonut

3:47 PM

@Almo [mind blown meme]

user4704

@AlexM. Keep it civil.

Alex M.

I am

I'm not insulting anyone, I hope

and note that I did not even swear once :D

Seth Battin

Batophobia

@JoshPetrie This is the most civil I've seen Alex. Not a single vulgar term in a surprisingly long time

Alex M.

of course you are calmer than I am, you joined at the end and only threw 2 lines

user4704

3:49 PM

@Batophobia Vulgarity is not the only way a discussion can turn uncivil.

Alex M.

it's like sitting on a bench then going to someone who ran a race to tell them you're less exhausted

Seth Battin

I'm good at jumping into conversations in the middle. That's why I like SE.

Batophobia

throw line;

Noctrine

And without being specific, we get a decent amount of visitors directly from the unity answers site. Along with other sites that we refer people to.

Seth Battin

@AlexM. It's more like hearing someone repeat the same point 5 times, but not listen to a single person trying to answer them

Alex M.

3:50 PM

@JoshPetrie I don't see how telling someone they're not contributing with anything to the discussion is uncivil, but ok

Batophobia

@JoshPetrie True, but consider the target audience

Alex M.

@SethBattin if you would have actually read our messages, you would have seen josh was not exactly answering my question

user4704

@AlexM. It has nothing to do with your argument, and it's also (potentially) totally wrong anyway, because somebody can be observing the entire discussion without having necessarily said anything yet.

Alex M.

I had an issue with his approach towards not wanting to discuss anything here

and he thought I had an issue with posting on meta

SpartanDonut

This need for clarification reinforces my comment on meta being good for getting your thoughts out in one manageable piece without the discussion going in multiple directions

Alex M.

3:53 PM

basically I was telling josh to try to stop not wanting to talk here about serious things

because it's really... not useful

SpartanDonut

I don't think anyone here has a problem with talking about serious things here

The take away is if you want to take action on things you talk about, post about it on meta

Alex M.

well I definitely tried to talk about serious things, and all I got from josh was "post it on meta"

Icy Defiance

@Batophobia I'd argue that vulgarity does nothing to make a discussion uncivil. If you take offense just because someone used a strong word, even though his argument is perfectly rational, then the problem is with you, not him.

Alex M.

this is the third time at least when I tried to talk to him and he told me to "post it on meta"

Almo

meta is the best place for it since many people interested in meta are not here.

it's not that it shouldn't be discussed here.

user4704

3:54 PM

I didn't say you had to stop talking about it here.

Almo

just that it will more likely have impact at meta

Seth Battin

@AlexM. I got that part. And then I said you can do whatever you like (except telling Josh what to "want").

Almo

he's trying to help you reach your objective not hinder you.

Christoph

I need to do something different. Any gamedev who needs a head-up display?

user4704

@Christoph You might try looking at the Classified section of www.gamedev.net.

Alex M.

3:55 PM

whatever, I've already wasted enough time on this

user4704

There's usually a bunch of people there who need help on projects.

Noctrine

In conclusion - "Post it on meta" doesn't = "Stop discussion"

Alex M.

I'll be sure to only address josh on meta from now on

user4704

Maybe somebody who needs a HUD built.

Alex M.

and that's that

SpartanDonut

3:55 PM

@AlexM. that's not productive

Alex M.

it's still better than trying to talk to him about something and being sent to meta

to him

not to everyone

Pip

@SethBattin that was @hasherr, who I actually have not seen in a while

Christoph

@JoshPetrie oh that looks more serious than I expected

Icy Defiance

@AlexM. yourlogicalfallacyis.com/black-or-white

user4704

Why do you want to only talk to me about the issue? I am not the site.

Almo

3:57 PM

you're not? I want my money back!

Alex M.

you're not, but you've clearly entered the discussion I started, and we exchanged replies

Batophobia

grabs popcorn

Alex M.

then you promptly ended it

I don't feel it's productive to switch environments just so I can send you more replies

user4704

I don't think we can continue this conversation because we cannot agree on the basic principles under which we are having this conversation.

Alex M.

hey, todders continued it

I was willing to let it go

user4704

3:58 PM

I did not forbid you from doing anything.

SpartanDonut

My bad

user4704

@Christoph Yea, it can be.

user4704

What did you have in mind instead?

Almo

-1

Q: I am clueless why my variable keeps resetting to 0?

I'm studying C++ atm but i stumbled on something i just can't declare why it is happening. For no reason i am looking here for the exact solution of what i'm trying to do, just a explanation will be much appreciated! It's about his piece of code here: int Factorial(int x) { if (x = 0) { ...

c++

Icy Defiance

btw @Batophobia, are you the person who's been reporting Alex just for swearing and getting him autosuspended? You've been online every time I've seen him suspended (yes I've been recording it) and you're the only person who has verbally objected specifically to swearing.

Batophobia

3:59 PM

@IcyDefiance Nope, I've never reported anyone

takes much more than that to offend me

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