Kuroneko's Den

@user1306322 They are tutorials through either wikis or other players, so the cost of making a tutorial is not so high. That along with the fact that most people know how mmorpgs work, makes the tutorial a less important part of the average mmo

Prix

if it per chance starts looking cool

we can just throw a kickstart

and its not like we will have it done in week or a month

to begin with I doubt me or @user1306322 have any design skill to make original graphs

so we would start using tiles and pre made stuff around

which wouldn't make it look cool

user1306322

ok guys are we talking concrete things or just musing about what could and couldn't be done theoretically?

Prix

I am talking about concrete things we can do

we can do a MMORPG

Asada Shino

Well, when thinking of these sorts of things, first thing would be a brainstorm, right?

Prix

6:05 PM

obviously it won't be a WOW at start just something basic for a few friends to play while we dev it

user1306322

it won't look good with no budget and skill in making games

Asada Shino

To see what we can come up with and weigh in ideas between eachother

Prix

@user1306322 exactly

its a experience

per say

or rather learning?

user1306322

I've already made a Terraria clone once, so I've got that experience going for me, which is something

Asada Shino

@Prix edutainment or learning for the devs?

Nice

Prix

6:07 PM

learning I mean I have made private servers clone

for lineage and Aion

Asada Shino

Just to say this right off the get go, the only 'game' I've ever made was a battleship clone x3

Prix

but never made a real game myself

Asada Shino

I mean that board game, without anything graphical apart from some ship sprites I plucked off google

Prix

so here is what I am throwing, we could try making a 2d game with isometric map for multi player

from what I was looking around these doesn't seem too hard to do

and there are plenty of graphs/texture we can use

what game type etc we can further discuss

there are N possibilities and I would rather see some everyone agrees on

its a side project work we would contribute when we have time to privately between us

user1306322

personally, I don't think making yet another Diablo clone is going to make anyone interested

Prix

6:09 PM

if at some point it looks cool or its potential grows we can think of kickstart or something

it's not a clone nor does it need to be like diablo we can talk this over

but doesn't automatically make it a new idea as we don't even know how far we can get with it

Asada Shino

@user1306322 Lots of different companies make shooters, and people are still interested. 'cloning' doesn't mean straight up copying, but taking an idea and adding something new to it is what makes it work

Prix

@AsadaShino u mean the one you pinpoint ship position to blow it like b1, z3

Asada Shino

@Prix yeah xD

user1306322

normally I wouldn't even consider it a possibility to kickstart anything with anyone, but when it comes to @Prix and his magical ability to make even SE updates roll… I might just try it

Asada Shino

You click somewhere on the opponent's grid and it says hit or miss and if you sunk a ship it says so

Prix

6:12 PM

lol

don't expect much from me, I am just a greedy bastard

well I was thinking about a 2d isometric game because it is really easy to make one

specially the way you move from block to block etc

so I was not considering a genre or how the game would be or about what in first place

but just make something functional you know?

just to see how far we can get

user1306322

let's flesh out at least 2-3 core game mechanics and see what game it looks like most and try to figure out what parts of it we could make

Asada Shino

Hmm, this is harder than I expected xD

I've seen quite a few videos from some professional game designers, but that doesn't make it any easier

Prix

flesh out? you mean look into some game engines available for c# and what they can do ?

Asada Shino

I think he means more thoroughly work them out

Prix

there are quite a few engines out there

user1306322

6:17 PM

I mean let's figure out what exactly is going to be happening in a usual game sesion

Asada Shino

not in practice, but describe them

user1306322

are we gonna kill some enemies?

are we gonna find items?

Asada Shino

And if so, how

Prix

yes there will definitively be fight(action)

user1306322

will there be boss fights?

Asada Shino

6:18 PM

Of what sort, physical, ranged, is magic involved?

user1306322

what kinds of attacks are involved?

Asada Shino

Okay, let's go at them one at a time

Before we just ask questions, and not answer any xD

Prix

@user1306322 its an option but could be just monsters/enemy fight for instance boss would depend on what we make

user1306322

what type of combat is it? Real-time, turn-based?

Asada Shino

So, there will be 'action'

Of what sort? Fighting something yourself or more something like pokemon/yugioh, where the player's character does not fight, himself

Prix

6:19 PM

@AsadaShino could have all those but perhaps too complicated to do it all so we can just pick 1 of those to start with

as if we pick magic for example we need to worry about effects for spells and the such and if we just pick physical with simple weapons it would be easier

I would like to try real time action

but its up to u guys on this

Asada Shino

real time action sounds fine, but imo it depends on the type of fighting

Prix

@AsadaShino no pvp to begin with so mainly monsters or enemies or whatever we make to fight against

I did like to entail magic, unarmed, swords and the such and fire weapon but it would be too much to begin with

Asada Shino

@Prix No, I mean will the mc fight monsters/enemies himself or will it be like pokemon where he has helpers/minions/monsters to fight for him

Prix

that is discussable

we could do mc fights or we could do a pet or we could do both being pet an assitant

I am open to your point of view as well

so don't make me decide on everything otherwise it will be a game I want to play

lol

Asada Shino

@Prix Well, we can think big now and start development small. If you leave room in the way the combat is handled in code, to include differrent types of attacks or moves, you can start small and as you progress add new things. But that does add a new level of difficulty as you'll make starting up a bit harder

user1306322

6:23 PM

have you guys seen Transistor?

Asada Shino

@Prix This would be something like how ni no kuni handles it?

user1306322

store.steampowered.com/app/237930

Asada Shino

@user1306322 I have seen it, but not played it

The combat sounds pretty cool though

user1306322

@AsadaShino oh, you should!

it's got a very cool soundtrack

Asada Shino

A lot of choice and passive effects

user1306322

6:24 PM

it's like half of the game's worth

and the combat mechanics are nice too

Asada Shino

Instead of "these are the skills you get, level them up as you want but they only do more damage and may get one special effect in the end"

Prix

@AsadaShino hum?

Asada Shino

It's "This is what you have, you can choose to use them actively, add them to other skills or to your own character for buffs, there's plenty to play with so see what you can work with"

@Prix Ni no kuni has a system where you can recruit up to three creatures to fight with you, but you can only fight with 1 of those creatures as your sidekick, at a time, so the MC fights, with the help of one of his creatures

Prix

@user1306322 is there an official site of an actual gmae play video of that?

Asada Shino

You can switch them around in combat, but you can't control both of them, you have to set them to either go aggressive, defensive or passive

user1306322

6:26 PM

►

Asada Shino

@Prix So then the question becomes, if you allow the player to have an assistant to help him fight, does this assistant actively help, by fighting on its own or is it there to help the player by giving him buffs, depending on something like the fighting style or type of creature that is used.

Next to that, Does it get chose for him or is the player free to choose what sort of creature assists them, by being given a tutorial ish lesson on how to find one and then sent into a starter area where he can recruit one, something like a 'rites of passage quest', where you can't leave if you don't recruit one.

But I'm going too far into details about this

Prix

@user1306322 not bad the graphs would be similar perhaps not in the same place like a city or town could be else where but that how it would look like

but that is far from where we are right now

Asada Shino

We haven't even decided how deep combat goes

Prix

we won't have such a graph from the start nor game play

user1306322

we aren't anywhere even :D

now that's the thing

we can have that gameplay now

Prix

6:30 PM

@AsadaShino like mixmaster I see, that's nice too but that is again ahead of it

user1306322

any gameplay we want in fact

the main problem is the high-quality game assets, not game mechanics

Prix

yes, that is why I am not trying to think of anything over complicated yet

Asada Shino

We don't have to be tied down to currently popular or known types of gameplay, but thinking up a new sort of gameplay and making it interesting is not easy

Prix

just a very simple single player

user1306322

look at all the indie ames with marvelous game mechanics and poor assets

Prix

6:31 PM

to see how far we can get

if we can work well together and actually get something nice done with a basic game

we could move into something more challenging

not sure you get what i meant

user1306322

@AsadaShino no need to invent a new gameplay, you could just rehash an old one and add some novelty features to it

the mood of the game can change everything

Asada Shino

@user1306322 That's more what I meant, I think I explained it too broadly and made it sound like thinking up an entirely new type, I mean adding something new and fresh to it. But even that is not easy, since you'd have to still make it feel natural and appealing

Prix

all I would like to try right now honestly is like a very simple single player in 2d with a single map were we kill things and move around etc

user1306322

if it's overly serious but doesn't meet the quality expectations, it's bad

Prix

if we can make that as a team we could try something bigger and cooler

user1306322

6:33 PM

but if you make a joke about every flaw of it, it's suddenly a mega hit

@Prix let's not set the bar too low, ok?

Asada Shino

@Prix Yeah, I guess that's the best thing to start with. Once you know you can do something like that, together, you can think of new things and have a good idea of eachother's strengths and weaknesses, so you know how far you can go

user1306322

we'd end up proving to ourselves that we can do what we already know we can do

Asada Shino

It's more about showing eachother what you can and can't do, moreso than yourself.

user1306322

!translate henshin

Asada Shino

Code quality and just the way it is written says quite a bit about a person's experience and skill.

Ruri

6:35 PM

@user1306322 Reply

Prix

@user1306322 it's not what I meant is just that working as a team is no so simple so if we make something real simple first we can see how it would work out and from there we would see how everyone does things and we could possible move into something bigger and more challenging.

@user1306322 transform, transformation

user1306322

oh

Asada Shino

@Prix You'll get there :P

Prix

ore no henshin wa kakkoi

Asada Shino

dane, pengin ga sugoi desu yo!

Prix

6:36 PM

!translate kawaii desu

Ruri

@Prix Cute

Asada Shino

Either way.

user1306322

@AsadaShino lol I know what I can do

I just wanna do cool things at low cost and with great returns

Asada Shino

@user1306322 And that is why I said that "moreso than yourself". Do you know what Prix can do and how well he can do it?

user1306322

easy, but fun, cheap and useful

Asada Shino

6:37 PM

Do you know how well you can work together?

Prix

lol

user1306322

it doesn't matter what we know, it's having fun

Prix

you're thinking of profit before existence

user1306322

profit as in fun

usefulness

Prix

where you don't even know if we can code together and make it work out

user1306322

6:38 PM

if we can make chat bots, we can pretty much do anything

Prix

coding as a team is not just know how the other codes or being able to follow standards and shit its like how we can delegate stuff and get it done as well

Asada Shino

If you have different ways of coding, you might create codebases that are almost incompatible, due to design decisions differing

user1306322

gotta define essential functionality first

just like the game design

Prix

@AsadaShino that is something one can learn so I honestly don't see that as a problem specially we know none here are pro's

Asada Shino

@Prix I see

Prix

6:40 PM

@user1306322 that's why I said you're far too ahead thinking on profit :P

I just want to see if we can get something done together

user1306322

by profit I mean fun

Prix

before we can decide and move into a bigger step

user1306322

if it's not going to be any fun whatsoever for a very long time, I don't think this is going to work

Prix

well it does needs to be fun, but just coding alone won't be that fun

it gets cool when we actually see it taking form like being able to test and play

or so I think

but if we set the bar too high and we aren't even good working together we won't get anywhere

if we just try making something simple we will sort of see how it goes first

user1306322

well, this is where many game developers stop being game developers

Asada Shino

6:43 PM

What do they become?

Superheroes?

Prix

that's not what I am saying

I know we can make a snake game

but making what I had early mentioned is not a snake game

it involves the basis of everything we are discussing

it will involve mechanics, movement, real time action logic

constructing a 2d isometric map

having AI for monsters or enemies

I did say its something basic, but its basic in terms of how big the game is its going to be a 1 map single player game at first

so we don't have to over think story or anything else other than the basic

and as u saw above the basic is not "a snake game" is a lot of code and logic

how the monster logic will be reusable to construct other monsters based on different stats

how their AI will function based on different enemies

how the fight system will work, movements will work

if you think that is easy to then tell me ;)

user1306322

if we make if all from scratch, it's gonna take a lot of time, but we should really google some ready-to-go game engines like that and not reinvent the wheel

Prix

of couse we are not reinventing the wheel

there are tons of game engines out there but they don't give you everything otherwise it wouldn't be your game

user1306322

they give a whole lot

Asada Shino

Can't they be expanded? Or are they usualy pretty sturdy when it comes to expanding mechanics?

user1306322

6:48 PM

I bet you could reskin Transistor and it'd be something like what you have in mind

Prix

yes but you still need to think navigation path, enemies logic

Asada Shino

Ehm, not sturdy, rugged maybe?

Prix

and so forth

what is/was Trasnsistor made on?

user1306322

MonoGame

Prix

I am not looking into using Unity to make the a game but C# and some opensource engine with some library at best

user1306322

6:49 PM

MonoGame

MonoGame is free software used by game developers to make their Windows and Windows Phone games run on other systems. It currently supports Mac OS, Linux, iOS, Android, PlayStation Mobile, and the OUYA console. It implements the Microsoft XNA 4 Application programming interface. It has been used for several bestselling games, including Bastion and Fez. == History == MonoGame is the evolution of XNA Touch (September 2009) started by Jose Antonio Farias and Silver Sprite by Bill Reiss. The first official release of MonoGame was version 2.0 with a downloadable version 0.7 that was available ...

why not Unity?

it's awesome

if you can use it >.>

Prix

because then you did be scripting at best inside their system which also have plenty of limitations

MonoGame for instance is a nice cross platform option

only worry I would have with Mono is what sort of image library they use

but you do know there are other engines out there for c# right?

user1306322

yes, but I haven't heard a lot about them

it's not like I have anyone or anywhere to hear about them from lol

Prix

if I was to make a game first thing I would do would be searching around c# for game engines and libraries

like you have opentk, slimdx, directx which basically are graphical libraries

user1306322

monogame looks like a prime choice

Prix

for example an engine deltaengine.net/games/showcases

here is another paradox3d.net/features/features-main.html

user1306322

6:58 PM

never heard of these games

Prix

waveengine.net

they are engines

user1306322

in the showcases

soulcraft

arena wars 2

so far these are all 3D-centric game engines

Prix

oh, but it does show you sort of what can be done

user1306322

and for 3D we have Unity which is the best

but we're talking about 2D, right?

Prix

I was just pointing that a there are many options

user1306322

7:00 PM

yes, but they are all inferior

Prix

yes 2d so we should look around before deciding

user1306322

monogame is probably the best choice from what little I know

Asada Shino

That means an engine more designed for working with sprites, than polygons?

user1306322

it means it has tools better suited for making 3D/2D games

Asada Shino

Also, just because a game is 2d, that does not mean you are forced to use a 2d-only engine, if you ignore the third dimension in your game and fix your camera's perspective, would you not get the same effect? Or am I thinking about this in the wrong way, since 3d games use polygons over sprites for graphics

user1306322

7:03 PM

basically, yes

you don't even use 3D models and corresponding "lighting" and such options if you're making a 2D game

Asada Shino

I see

Prix

@user1306322 do you know any game that had/have a massive game player base and uses unity3 not for single player games?

user1306322

@AsadaShino it's basically how Unity3D does 2D games, but with a bunch of very important performance tweaks

Prix

I don't know any or remember

but Unreal Engine I know some

user1306322

@Prix Blitzkrieg

Prix

7:05 PM

unrealengine.com

user1306322

Blitzkrieg 3

Blitzkrieg 3 (Russian: Блицкриг III) is an in-development massively multiplayer online real-time strategy game computer game based on the events of World War II a sequel to Blitzkrieg 2 and is the third and latest title in the Blitzkrieg series. The game will feature a single player campaign with free-to-play online multiplayer where subscriptions are optional. Nival published the first trailer for the game on YouTube on August 13, 2013 featuring live action footage mixed with concept artwork and actual in-game footage and renders. == See also == Blitzkrieg (video game series) Blitzkrieg (video...

Prix

what is the site

user1306322

of unity?

Prix

blizweirdname

is it live already? global or local or what

user1306322

4 mins ago, by user1306322

Blitzkrieg 3

Blitzkrieg 3 (Russian: Блицкриг III) is an in-development massively multiplayer online real-time strategy game computer game based on the events of World War II a sequel to Blitzkrieg 2 and is the third and latest title in the Blitzkrieg series. The game will feature a single player campaign with free-to-play online multiplayer where subscriptions are optional. Nival published the first trailer for the game on YouTube on August 13, 2013 featuring live action footage mixed with concept artwork and actual in-game footage and renders. == See also == Blitzkrieg (video game series) Blitzkrieg (video...

Prix

7:11 PM

you took the time to send me a wiki and not their site :(

user1306322

it's on the wiki's page

in the references

wiki always has official site links in the references

blitzkrieg.com

Asada Shino

Only in russian though :P Hope chrome can translate it well enough

user1306322

"Cool game with lots of combat about war and tanks"

Prix

so its local

have you played it its there a map limit or how it is mmo?

like battle field 32 player or w/e

user1306322

List of Unity Engine games

This is a list of games using the Unity Engine. == Simulations using Unity == Eyes on the Solar System (2010) Universe Sandbox == References == == External links == Official Unity Game List...

Prix

7:14 PM

there is a list on their site

unity3d.com/showcase/gallery

user1306322

ok what are we doing again?

Prix

I was talking about the fact there are multiple usable engines and you focused on the "I want Unity" because it looks cool ;)

user1306322

it's good for 3D but we're not doing that so it doesn't even matter

their toolset for 2D is still very poor

MonoGame is basically an extension of XNA and is compatible with MSVS

Prix

the only worry I have with XNA is that microsoft ~~might drop it~~ have dropped developments on it to some extent

but monogame does look like a nice option specially because it would be cross platform

user1306322

XNA is already not supported, so no worries there

most XNA devs have switched over to Mono

Prix

7:19 PM

is it like XNA have you tried it?

user1306322

I have not tried it, but it's supposed to be fully compatible with XNA

Prix

I mean, it seems to be a installer, does it go like XNA is for VS studio

like you get to see the interface etc like on we do with XNA

user1306322

I've just seen a nuget script for installation

Prix

ok my internet is borking is I stop responding for a few don't wory I will be back

user1306322

I'll go make some tea then

Prix

7:25 PM

so I guess a good start would be download it and see if you feel comfortable with it, then we can define on what to start with and make a SVN

Asada Shino

Hitsumon!

When you asked about my experience, was that also asking if I wanted to join or seeing if I would be suited to, or are you two planning to do this together?

user1306322

I wouldn't mind if you wanted to help

but we're still trying to figure out what we're gonna be doing and only then we could find out what kind of help we could use

Asada Shino

I see ^^

user1306322

for now… monogame.net/documentation/?page=Tutorials

@Prix it's basically XNA

everything is extremely similar

@Prix check out Bastion, it was made before Transistor and also uses MonoGame

the two games are similar

Prix

7:45 PM

@AsadaShino hitsumon te nanda? ore no 1 sizu

Asada Shino

Look up :P

Prix

looks nice for a 2d

@AsadaShino I can see the roof

Asada Shino

@Prix Sorry, the question was about my involvement in all this.

Was a bit busy just now

Prix

honestly the more the happier but that is if we can make it work out which at this point I have no idea until we actually make something

god my internet is fucked up

!help

oh

!help

SE sites are going extremly slow for me :(

user1306322

8:02 PM

something broke

Prix

hum?

!help

Ruri

@Prix the current working commands are: !say, !greeting, !star, !unstar, !ignore, !unignore, !delete, !about, !help, !summon, !unsummon, !loli, !shiritori, !wiki, !define, !youtube, !yt, !translate, !chuck, !urban, !eightball -- Use !help [command] for more information. -- NOTE: To avoid flooding, please edit your messages with desired commands, by pressing [up arrow] key!

user1306322

you could probably remove the ! from every command's name

not that it would be a lot better, but maybe a bit

Prix

you mean from the help message or from needing the ! altogether.

I will just make it read !help !command with and without the ! instead would be easier

and people would have less to worry about for using the !help

user1306322

I meant the help message with the list of commands

let's maybe talk a bit more about that game?

Prix

8:13 PM

!help saya

Ruri

@Prix sorry, there is not information here yet!

Prix

@user1306322 well not sure how we can get it going from here yet so I am thinking but if you have anything to say go ahead

!help !saya

Ruri

@Prix sorry, there is not information here yet!

user1306322

!help say

Ruri

@user1306322 sorry, there is not information here yet!

Prix

8:15 PM

!help greeting

Ruri

@Prix sorry, there is not information here yet!

user1306322

I don't know what we're even planning to do yet

Prix

now I just need to fill up each usage

user1306322

some anime-themed game

Prix

for the time being a very simple single game with basic mech or so I guess

user1306322

8:17 PM

ok but which game mechs

Prix

a dude that fights against enemy using his hands and perhaps sword or some simple weapon he goes around on a randomly generated map killing monsters that respawn with different level difficult and patterns

user1306322

doesn't sound very fun

just that, I mean

many games are built on that mechanic

you could add items, abilities, special stats, items and character customization…

and it would still be pretty boring if not for the setting

gotta think of an interesting setting…

or maybe make combat interesting somehow

Prix

what I have just mentioned is to define how well we can do together I'm not going to tell you we will make the next world of Warcraft if we don't even know how we will mix together, need to be a bit realistic too

user1306322

WoW is not made to be fun, it's made to be profitable

I have very little experience in making truly fun things

Prix

@user1306322 nope when they first created, it was just 4 fun.

user1306322

8:23 PM

not sure

Prix

and regardless that was just an hypothetical example of what I meant

user1306322

Blizzard is… not that type of company anymore

I mean we could probably make a Diablo 3 clone in 2D if we spent ~8 hours every weekend on it for a year

@Prix let's try to figure out the setting

I could see Kyoukai no Kanata made into a hack'n'slash game

assuming we're talking about hack'n'slash genre

Prix

After I see today's anime

I can think some more

but I don't think there is much of a setting to decide right now since we won't have any fancy graphs, textures and the such to use

user1306322

8:48 PM

first let's decide on the genre (and thus the main game mechanics and their extensions)

do you want something very much like Diablo? Or are there any important deviations from that gameplay in your mind?

goddamn the MonoGame tutorial is a copypaste of XNA tutorial >.<

Prix

10:18 PM

!say live?

Ruri

live?

Prix

@user1306322 if its based of XNA it should as it would hardly change on its core functionality and mono is in the end just for portability and doesn't change much from that, for instance I don't have to code anything differently then I would to make Ruri multiple platform

user1306322

10:50 PM

in any case

if we're gonna actually make something, it's better to keep a design document handy somewhere

I suggest using google docs

Prix

@user1306322 what is the definition for the 8 ball game I have on ruri? I can only find the reference to the pool game

user1306322

Magic 8-Ball

The Magic 8 Ball is a toy used for fortune-telling or seeking advice, manufactured by Mattel and developed in the 1950s. It is often used in fiction, often for humor related to it giving very accurate, very inaccurate, or otherwise statistically improbable answers. == Origin == An 8-ball was used as a fortune telling device in the 1940 Three Stooges short, You Nazty Spy, in which it was referred to as a "magic ball". While Magic 8 Ball didn't exist in its current form until 1950, the functional component was invented by Albert C. Carter, who was inspired by a spirit writing device that was used...

it's eight ball, just magic

:D

Prix

OH right magic eight ball

that's what I was missing

!help

Ruri

@Prix the current working commands are: !say, !greeting, !star, !unstar, !ignore, !unignore, !delete, !about, !help, !summon, !unsummon, !loli, !shiritori, !wiki, !define, !youtube, !yt, !translate, !chuck, !urban, !eightball -- Use !help [command] for more information. -- NOTE: To avoid flooding, please edit your messages with desired commands, by pressing [up arrow] key!

Prix

!help unsummon

Ruri

10:59 PM

@Prix Usage: !unsummon 1234 -- Ruri will leave the selected chat room. This command requires elevated access to be performed!

Transcript for