@RoryAlsop Win 10 kinda merges Win7+bits of Win8+ bits of phone OS' In general it's good (things like the console are a lot better than they used to be) but the privacy stuff sucks (in common with most modern mobile OS') so needs tweaking to be reasonable (i.e. don't take the defaults)

@RоryMcCune yeah - that's the one bit I have on my red list :-)

I'm not up there with the people saying it's awful terrible, 'cause frankly it's the same or similar as Android and IOS

but needs work.

@RoryAlsop I bet if you ask @kalina nicely, she will outline everything that needs to be disabled/hit with a hammer to disable all of the privacy stuff.

for?

right

@RоryMcCune Nothing compares to 7, and it's tons better than 8.

@DavidFreitag haha this is an operating system people actually use

it's not rocket science, anybody could do it

not to unix beard but holy shiiiiiit why is that an accepted thing

there are more reasons to dislike Windows 10 than that though

@Ohnana wat

@Ohnana people want shiney features, shiney features need data...

@DavidFreitag i'm a linux user and this is completely unthinkable

@DavidFreitag I quite like XP...

@RoryAlsop XP wasn't bad in its day, it's faaaaar too slow now.

@Ohnana If I could play all the games happily on one of my *nix boxen, I would

@DavidFreitag agreed

@RoryAlsop i can play most of the games i like

Anybody who thinks that the primary motivation to all of this stuff is privacy violation needs to remove their tinfoil hats, sit back and imagine how some of this functionality would actually be implemented and the information it would need to work

@Ohnana think about it like this. If someone said to americans " you will carry a network connected tracking devices at all times and report your location" there would be riots.. Give people a smartphone and they love it

Also, that 32bit limitation is crap.

And I am beginning to like Win7 now I know how to configure it to look and feel like XP

@Ohnana what smart phone do you carry?

@RоryMcCune yea but if you want to use your phone without being tracked you can put it in airplane mode

@RоryMcCune doesn't even need to be a smartphone, any mobile phone requires a signal at the very least and that in itself can be tracked

@Ohnana and all the shiney stops working. win10 is the same

@RoryAlsop Out of curiosity, why didn't you get a 7 license?

@RоryMcCune samsung galaxy s4... and no i do not do anything sensitive on it for the exact reason we're mentioning

@Ohnana erm...that isn't necessarily going to stop you being tracked...

@DavidFreitag couldn't find a place to buy 7

@Ohnana still tracks you whereever you go

@RoryAlsop ebay

@RoryAlsop the phone stops communicating with cell towers and disables gps

You can get a 7 pro license for like $40

@DavidFreitag I don't buy anything from ebay. I buy windows stuff from microsoft

this win 10 stuff is the exact same as the mobile stuff and no-one cares about that

@RоryMcCune location services -> disabled

@Ohnana do you?

@RоryMcCune yes

does anyone?

@kalina well You do.. that's not a surprise

@Ohnana not all the time

@RоryMcCune i do! srsly. it's disabled account side and device side

but I'll bet you're in < 1% of people

@RоryMcCune no I agreed with your previous comment

@Ohnana If you actually cared you'd have rooted your phone and removed those packages.

If you are on a track list, you can do all you want to try and disable those functions, but certain agencies can still use them without you knowing about it - aside from possible battery usage

and in all honesty I have all of the location tracking without permission off but I still use Google Now on my Android device

@Ohnana good stuff, join @kalina in the <1% who value privacy more than shiney

my point is your computer does not need to collect this information. phones have a semi valid reasoning (cell towers need to route to you) but PCs shouldn't give a fuck about where you are and what you're doing

@RoryAlsop Above that, you can still be triangulated because the cellular chip still pings the towers when in airplane mode.

I am okay with certain things accessing my location. Like Ingress, maps, tripadvisor, tom-tom...

@Ohnana Your point is not invalid, computers don't need to collect this information, you could use Windows 95 if you wanted as well

@DavidFreitag yep, that too

@Ohnana nah I disagree look at the win privacy stuff and they lay out why they want eachg bit.

@kalina hey 95 was my first OS

however, a personal assistant like cortana, siri, google now... they require enough information to actually work

and that information is your location, your likes, etc

heck anyone who uses chrome has a keystroke logger running in their URL bar

@Ohnana oh dear - way to make Rories feel old...thanks

IE too

Firefox is the only one that doesn't do that

it can't tell you sports scores unless it knows what team you support, it can't tell you about restaurants in your location without your location

@kalina I disable them - not because of privacy worries, but because they annoy me

@RоryMcCune evil autocomplete that can be turned off?

it can't tell you about events without access to your calendar and it can't track conversions without access to your email/messaging/etc

you can either deal with it or opt out...

@kalina true, and i make informed decisions about these

@kalina Google Now doesn't work for me, said something like "Not enough information available" I think it's trying to say I have no friends or soemthing.

@Ohnana possibly I just avoid chrome/IE :)

I don't like personal assistant functions

even the "well it should be private by default" is a stupid argument

I'd prefer a live PA

what you're saying is "the vast majority of people (99%+) should have to enable it instead of me disabling it"

and that's ridiculous

i dunno if you let me into your house should you have to explicitly tell me to not rummage through your bedroom?

ask first, it's the polite thing to do!

@Ohnana that's not an apt analogy

@Ohnana No, I would explicitly encourage you

the correct analogy would be inviting you into my house to be my personal assistant, in which case, no - I would expect that you'd get to know this information because it's your job.

@Ohnana apologies if I get a bit heated on this stuff, but I've seen most people just accept hideous privacy invasion for 8-9 years now (obv. you're not one of them), and then suddenly get indignant with Win10

@RоryMcCune haha yeah. i stopped using windows around the end of xP

maybe what is missing is you wearing a tshirt that says "HEY I NEED YOUR INFOS" in big red letters so it's obvious what your purpose is

but that doesn't look "pretty" and pretty wins in the mass market

@kalina note to self: personal assistants are silly

yeah...

and tbh

collecting crash reports without permission might be considered a bit dodgy but it's better than them not getting them since overall it will result in a better experience

@Ohnana I ran desktop linux as my primary OS from Redhat 9 --> FC7-8 ish before the constant breakage irritated me too much

@kalina depends on the info in the crash dupm

I can see it would be an issue if you were dealing with confidential documents but you can disable it in an enterprise environment so just get yourself connected to a domain

true. a lot of crash reports are pretty benign

I'm sure they'll be pressured to relax that more in time

I'm more annoyed that after reinstalling it won't reboot for updates on a schedule

@Ohnana if you are so worried about your privacy, why don't you use PunchCard OS?

like "real security", "real privacy" is an illusion

@DavidFreitag don't get smart with me mister

a myth to lull in the weak

@Ohnana You are right, I much rather prefer to stay dumb.

oh dear

ya'd think people would know better than that..

er what

trustwave that is, not the tweeter

how tf is that legal

@Ohnana it's probably not, but they're gambling that most people won't want to be the ones to test it...

@RоryMcCune lol i'd fucking smash them as soon as I saw that shit. just to spite them

and then get a job with people who aren't nutters

yeah large tech. companies can be weird...

Pretty sure this one needs to be closed, and the one that's linked at the end. The guy's last sentence pretty much exemplifies why these questions aren't a fit on SE.

(Ping @RoryAlsop @JeffFerland @AviD @schroeder)

@Iszi because it was asked in 2010. I'm of a mind to keep those really old questions alive (but potentially locked) for historical reasons. The community might have had a different standard back then and it isn't fair to penalize the votes based on current standards.

@schroeder Closure doesn't negate rep, right?

doesn't the question get deleted after 30 days?

@schroeder I don't think there's an auto-delete. It becomes eligible for non-mod delete votes after 2.

And the one I posted above is only an hour old. That one should definitely get shut down.

@AviD if you could modify your answer to security.stackexchange.com/a/81/6253 to include a reference to a place to find what is recommended, we might make that oldie a more canonical answer.

@Iszi sure - here's what I propose: modify the 2010 Answer (@Avid) to be generalized, and close the recent one as a duplicate (with explanation).

and I just educated myself on the close -> delete process

Pretty sure @AviD could still edit his answer after the old one is closed, even without having to (ab)use mod powers.

@Iszi I would close as a dupe to point the user to a source of an answer (hence my suggestion to modify the 2010 answer).

Hello everyone my name is Evan Carroll. I'm running for moderator in Server Fault. My keen senses threw me off to a few disturbing comments in this channel that I'd like to take the time to address.

Hi Evan

@kalina on the subject of adorableness, you've been beat. I have no idea what you look like but you're clearly a bitter envious person and that's not a good foundation to challenge me.

@kalina You should only be lucky enough to be in the same group as me. If I was in it, it'd be an awesome group.

Hello @schroeder.

If anyone has any questions about my explosive campaign to make Server Fault great again, feel free to ask them while I'm here. Alternatively, you can find me in the election room awaiting the news of my victory. chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/27357/…

@EvanCarroll go home

:3

No, I'm at a coffee shop now, and I rather like it. I'm signing autographs.

(Also, I hear you get a trophy for winning)

I have no more room for trophies. They just create clutter.

If Server Fault sends me a trophy in 2015. I fully intend to sell it on eBay to fund cancer research for children. Help me win. Together, we can beat cancer once and for all, for all the children.

@schroeder For this case, that makes sense enough. But what about the general case?

@Iszi I would do the same. It would allow us to track what questions are popular, what gets routinely asked, and it would allow us to create a canonical answer for them (by editing the original question)

@schroeder But why are we worried about canonical answers for off-topic/unfit questions?

"This is off-topic/unfit - take it somewhere else" is the answer.

@Iszi you are absolutely correct, but if we become the place people go for the answers, it provides value to supply those answers, even if they are off-topic. Maybe ther is no other source for the answer. We hope that people would do a search before posting a question, but if it is common that the same off-topic question is being asked again and again, we might head off future off-topic postings by supplying at least something that could help.

@Iszi the 2010 question is now closed.

@Iszi you around? gimme a downboat here please space.stackexchange.com/a/10892/49

@TildalWave on space.SE I expected upboats, I'd go to deepsea.SE for downboats.

@Gilles you'd be surprised :))

@Gilles Is there even such a thing as deepsea.SE?

I actually once got to ask the NOAA Nautilus team if they were ever contacted by NASA regarding the submersible vehicle design for future Europa missions

@TildalWave And what was their answer?

I mean, space is like everywhere man!

@DavidFreitag They weren't but liked the question

@TildalWave That's only, like, your opinion, man.

@TildalWave I almost find it surprising that NASA didn't ask them.

indeed

it usually goes the other way around, NASA building satellites for NOAA, I guess they never considered it could be NOAA giving their expertise to NASA too

@TildalWave Either that or NASA is the silverback of the engineering world and refused to seek outside help.

Personally, I lean towards the latter because it is a bit scary to think NASA overlooked something.

@DavidFreitag no, for some reason space gets a lot more attention than deep seas

NASA should totally run deep sea missions, at least they could say with a straight face that there's water there

@Gilles That's only because deep sea explorers don't have an Elon Musk.

ay who the fuck summoned evan

@DavidFreitag neah I doubt that, many missions are integrated into NASA's budget through AOs (announcement of opportunity) and I think they're preparing an AO for Europa ice penetrating submersible too (once funds are approved, which might take a while, first the "clipper" mission, then orbiter,... and so on)

@TildalWave Hmm, that makes sense, more of a they haven't asked yet.

each new mission type is usually also upgraded in terms of budget for it

@DavidFreitag it's probably more that it's not their business to ask any specific providers, they propose a mission and give rough constraints, then anyone is free to suggest solution for it, including the Nautilus team if they would want

direct invitations are possible, but those are usually for international cooperation

@TildalWave I wouldn't expect the Nautilus team to suggest a solution, there would be too many variables that they aren't used to dealing with, but I would expect at least some correspondence between NASA and them on a submersible.

@DavidFreitag Well it's usually JPL building such hardware and as it happens that's CalTech and they're each year competing in various DARPA robotics challenges, including AUVs

@TildalWave Why downvote? Why don't you just delete it and drop a comment on the question if you're worried about anyone wondering what happened? It'll still be there for the >10k crowd.

@Iszi because I want to finally get that peer pressure badge?

I needed a score of -3 for that... got -4 so cheers all!

@TildalWave Peer pressure?

@DavidFreitag space.stackexchange.com/help/badges/38/peer-pressure

@TildalWave nurd

:))

@Gilles where couldn't they? water is bloody everywhere, including on the sun... oh wait, did you mean one you could drink? heck, it's kinda unclear how deuteriated or contaminated with perchlorates water on Mars might be, but if you don't plan on procreating you should be just fine.... tea?

We know with 100% certainty that there's water wherever NASA has ever said there is... we don't know with much certainty for many places if there's liquid water that could support life as we know it... then explaining that takes a couple of sentences and yellow press tends to lose patience and confuses the masses with vague sensationalism. Quite intentionally I might add. Not NASA's fault tho.

@EvanCarroll haha you're so funny

NOW I get it!

so... anyway

@kalina who?