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7:00 PM
@NathanC Oh.
 
@NathanC int maine(int argc, char** argv)
 
@DennisKaarsemaker Rewrite that in Python
 
def main()
 
@KevinSoviero Is it dark? Is it quiet? Tried breathing/relaxation/meditation exercises? Masturbation? Reading a boring book by dim LED light?
 
@Wesley How's it going then? Gotten any contracts or a perm job?
 
7:02 PM
@pauska He went to the stylist yesterday and they offered him a perm job, but it would have cost too much.
 
@Skyhawk While it's dark, I can't have quiet due to my tinnitus, I have lots of white noise going as I sleep, I have a relaxation technique where I count +=1 with every breath in and out... In for odd, and out for even numbers.
 
Crystal Reports should be renamed to Crystal Meth Reports
4
 
I remember Borland Paradox. That was aptly named software.
 
@Skyhawk Also, I live with my parents, and kid siblings, and have a glass bedroom door, so that latter one is out of the question.
 
@TheCleaner Hasn't been truth in naming things for many, many years.
 
7:05 PM
We use a scheduling program here called "Time and Chaos". Every once in awhile it really lives up to the latter part of it's name.
 
@KevinSoviero Wait, so you can't sleep because you have nowhere to release your sexual tension?
 
@pauska Going okay - held on to my mainstay client which keeps my bills paid but nothing more. Looking for jobs but it's either do MSP work and lose my soul, or get denied because I'm not devops enough.
So I'm re-tooling my skills.
 
@KevinSoviero And did you say $70K and "with my parents" in the same hour?
 
@Skyhawk I don't think that's the issue... ;)
 
Yay, windows update issues fixed
 
7:06 PM
I'm becoming devops, so I'll still lose my soul, but at least I'll have trendy facial hair and a salary that I can buy hard liquor with.
 
@Skyhawk I was unemployed until recently... Cest la vie and all that jazz.
 
...and I just lost RDP. Nifty.
 
@Wesley And plaid. Everyone's doing it.
 
And my security server just went down...wut
 
@Skyhawk Really? I lived in plaid and corduroy in my early 90s grunge phase. Is it coming back?
 
7:07 PM
ruh roh
 
@HopelessN00b I just dislike dealing with something so powerful and yet so rarely necessary at my work. So I end up not wanting to become an expert in it and instead enjoy cursing at my screen for hours on end until I get a simple table join to work correctly with other tables and actually get RESULTS on the screen. :) (takes a hit)
 
@Wesley Now it's hipster.
 
@Skyhawk Ohhh, right.
@Skyhawk Is corduroy really coming back up there?
Because I could totally rock some thick row cords.
 
@Wesley I have a new inventory of short-sleeved plaid collared shirts, purchased because snaps not buttons (one-handed people like snaps).
 
/me remembers raver days with perpetually high friends and pink corduroy pants.
 
7:08 PM
heh, wtf...
 
How can I force sendmail to flush it's queue at any cost, even when sendmail -q isn't enough?
 
@TheCleaner I really loathe those custom, niche apps. It's a fucking database, with a shiny web-frontend. Use SQL, with a shiny web-frontend, FFS.
 
A bunch of stuff just exploded...and all I did was fix windows update for one server
 
@Wesley Corduroy will never die. Except that I can't even find it at Goodwill anymore.
 
@Skyhawk Oh wow. I have a snap plaid flannel jacket with scalloped shoulder seems. It's vintage too.
I was hipster before hipsters were hipsters. (Back then they just called it "being lame")
 
7:09 PM
@Wesley What is it called if you wear normal clothes today, future hipster?
 
@Wesley Safety in numbers, my friend. What's lame in Dallas is trendy in Portland.
 
@KevinSoviero reboot -force should do it, no?
 
@HopelessN00b my issue is I don't speak DBAgrish. So I read things like inner join, outer join, table links, etc. when trying to get table data and I think "I don't Fing know! Just give me the dang data and if it still doesn't look right I'll try again!"
 
@Skyhawk If I move to Seattle do I need to grow a taste for chia seeds or can I stick with flax?
 
@HopelessN00b Um... They frown on reboots here, and -force is... just no.
 
7:10 PM
@TheCleaner Show me on the execution plan where the bad query joined you.
5
 
@TheCleaner That's why I pull data from databases as simply Python lists, and then do the manipulation myself.
 
@TheCleaner Reeks of COBOL. Too complicated for normal users... too... shit for people who know what they're doing. Like I said, it's SQL, with a web-frontend, so just gimmie SQL with a web-front, FFS.
 
@HopelessN00b shutdown -h 0 "WHO'S THE GOD NOW?!"
 
@Wesley It joined me on my unindexed columns!
 
@Wesley, flax is forever. Our time machines have flax capacitors and our WW2 vets wore flax jackets in B-17s over Europe.
 
7:12 PM
@Wesley I would laugh if I got the joke... :D
 
@Wesley shutdown -r +0 "Sending the server to it's happy place."
 
@KevinSoviero kill sendmail processes? Unplug server? Or do they frown on those things too?
 
@TheCleaner The inner/outer join all has to do with when you do wackier stuff like joins including missing records.
 
@KevinSoviero why do they frown on reboots?
 
@TheCleaner Let's just table this discussion.
 
7:12 PM
@Wesley moving to Seattle? good times
 
@KevinSoviero sendmail -qR -v
 
@Wesley When faced with irregularity, we take flaxatives.
 
@TheCleaner Any join can always be replicated with a complex series of sub-selects
 
@voretaq7 Clearly your denormalized data was asking to be joined. Next time cover up with some Mongo and JSON documents.
 
(and then you show that code to a DBA, they shriek like a banshee, and rewrite it for you)
@Wesley We will be storing JSON in the database in our next product. Postgres has a JSON primary datatype.
 
7:14 PM
@RyJones Really, my options to move are Vancouver BC, Seattle, Portland (kinda bleh), ot San Fran.
 
SUCK IT, ORACLE!
 
@MikeyB I read stuff along that lines but the examples given sucked in their help files. So I chose the one that said "most common" :)
 
@voretaq7 Wow that's cool, didn't know that.
 
Any SCOM users in the hizzouse?
 
@MikeyB Why do people still use sendmail, over say... something less horrific? Is it one of those things that's more powerful if you can survive the configuration process, or something?
 
7:14 PM
@TheCleaner SQL is really easy. It's like learning the Korean alphabet. Give it a solid day and you'll amaze yourself.
 
@BigHomie I think @pauska is a SCOMbag.
 
@TheCleaner SELECT a, b from table1 join table2 using(key) or somesuch.
 
@BigHomie used to be...@MDMarra is...
 
@HopelessN00b exim4lyf
 
@Wesley that's hilarious
 
7:15 PM
@Wesley exim > *
 
Nothing *wrong* with sendmail. But: it does everything. Which makes it very powerful and complex. Usually seen on legacy installs.
Yeah, postfix is so much nicer nowadays.
 
@pauska @MDMarra @TheCleaner how do you recommend client deployment w/ SCOM
 
@RyJones troof
 
@MikeyB sendmail isn't that complex. You don't turn on what you don't need.
 
@MikeyB Sendmail is banned from export on the grounds of weapons sanctions.
@voretaq7 Sounds like good dating advice too.
 
7:17 PM
my sendmail.mc is something like 20 lines, most of which is enabling SSL and SASL (and I really don't care what sendmail.cf looks like because nobody ever reads that).
Disclaimer: I once had to read (and write) sendmail.cf files directly. 'twas back in my Sun days, and the machines didn't have working m4.
 
@MikeyB I had to do this via GUI...table linking without a clue what I'm doing. Auto-arrange and autolink didn't work...kept reporting errors afterwards. So I had to manually link each table. Silly ERP system.
 
@voretaq7 M4 is for wimps.
 
along with having to MANUALLY figure out which Fing table and/or views I needed to extract the right data from.
 
@Wesley "The M stands for Masochism!"
@TheCleaner that looks terrible
 
7:19 PM
@RyJones Good thing I only use PPTP for my VPNs!
Suck it heartbleed!
@voretaq7 "I find your lack of key constraints... disturbing."
 
@voretaq7 Hence me punching the desk multiple times today and walking away in frustration.
 
@TheCleaner FUCK. THAT. SHIT.
 
@PatoSáinz Dude, your headware. Put an easter bunny on or something.
 
@Wesley I don't. I've seen inside Great Plains CRM.
 
@RyJones Like really? All of my OpenVPN installs have been patched for a week. Way to go
 
7:21 PM
Great Plains CRM has a string-mapping table.
>A< string-mapping table.
As in one.
With every mapped string/enumerated value pair stored in it.
And there are no foreign keys.
 
@voretaq7 D=
 
nor primary keys
nor keys of any kind, save "the whole record is a default key" keys.
 
@voretaq7 Great Pains CRM, amirite?
 
but there are ID numbers, assigned sequentially (by the front-end)
 
When did knowing how to ask for help become such a rare talent? Was I out sick that week?
 
7:22 PM
I ran this rm -f /var/spool/mail/* command I found on a forum and it worked! Empty queue!
 
@BigHomie the server agent that reports in to SCOM?
 
@Wesley let's just say I'm glad all I had to do was get the app/dev team to write queries to hand me back XML for what I needed :)
 
@HopelessN00b Plz to be helping how do I server.
2
 
@KevinSoviero Indeed. indiscriminately empty.
 
@TheCleaner The agent I mean
yeah
I'm using it for my clients
 
7:23 PM
@Wesley rm -fr --no-preserve-root /
 
proactive monitoring
or will be once I install the agent
 
@DennisKaarsemaker I see you found my data protection script.
 
@voretaq7 Well, I was joking, but ya, that's basically what I ended up doing (after backing them up of course)
 
@BigHomie I always used the Discovery Wizard to deploy it. That way you can manage the agent from the console (patches, uninstall, etc.)
 
@TheCleaner Alright, I suppose I could give that a try
 
7:24 PM
@DennisKaarsemaker I really don't get that. How did you type --no-preserve-root on accident?!?
 
@BigHomie Proactive monitoring: Go from "Shit, what broke?" to "Shit, that broke?!" for a minimal monthly fee of licensing, CALs, support, retainer fees, and on-call help desk support.
2
 
@Wesley Well, that too... but I've seen a number of decently thought out posts lately, with some time attention given to them, decent background, and explanation of what they're trying to do, until they get to... "and then I do [thing] and I can't/it won't work." Like, ... the hell? why are the only details missing the ones that matter?
 
@Jacob by being a fucking moron
 
@KevinSoviero if I have a sendmail queue of >5000 messages that's usually my approach too
 
7:25 PM
@DennisKaarsemaker Hey, look, accidents happen. I thought --no-preserve-root was the flag that reset all .php file permissions to root:root 4777
 
Actually pretty much any mail system that's my approach -- very rarely would the queue be longer than that for any legit reason.
 
@Wesley Yep. Good thing we're a Uni and it's relatively cheap
 
@Wesley Proactive monitoring: Go from "Shit, what broke?" to "Yeah I F'ing know it's broke, I got the monitoring email. You ALL don't have to call IT!"
 
@KevinSoviero sendmail -qR -v will run through the queue in the foreground and then you can really easily see why they're still there.
 
@TheCleaner Pretty much.
 
Unless you use Nagios, in which case you go from "Shit, what broke?" to "Shit, Nagios broke AND WHAT ARE ALL THESE EMAILS?!"
 
@Jacob Kind of like "I cheated on you by accident... I was trying to put it in... um.. the freezer?"
 
@voretaq7 my mail queue reached 80k the other day.
 
@BigHomie SCCM or push
Thats what we do
 
rm is the Routine Maintenance tool for Unix computers. Sounds legit
 
7:27 PM
@DennisKaarsemaker It was 10K yesterday
 
@HopelessN00b "The Freezer" is a weird name for a stripper
 
@MDMarra that's what I was thinking for mainstream of course. I'm assuming the agent is an msi somewhere? How can I find it
 
@DennisKaarsemaker FUCKING SPAMMER!
 
actually, our mail queue reaches double-digit millions regularly
 
@BigHomie Its in the install media and on the SCOM server somewhere
 
7:28 PM
@MDMarra assuming there are install switches I need
 
yeah
not sure what they are, but it supports completely silent/unattended install
It's been a while
How come no one ever asks Service Manager questions. Those I can answer! :)
 
@DennisKaarsemaker FILTHY fucking spammer! :)
 
Well that was fun
ESXi had its glorious pink screen of death
 
@voretaq7 only filthy while fucking
 
@DennisKaarsemaker Don't put the spam THERE!
 
TIL that @DennisKaarsemaker was actually not an admin at Booking.com, but infact a spammer for the Russian Business Network.
 
@MDMarra Can you convince my cheap-ass bosses to use Service Center and ditch our shitty ticketing system?
 
@Jacob I'm not the spammer, I just support our email marketing team
 
@Jacob Hey @dennis would probably make more money if he did.
 
7:30 PM
@HopelessN00b Service Manager, and it's also a shitty ticketing system, all ticketing systems are shitty
 
@DennisKaarsemaker Could you maybe, uhhh, insert some affiliate links of mine into the next few email blasts?
 
the mailing list mailservers are fun
 
But at least Service Manager brings value to a Windows environment
 
they have their mailspool on a ramdisk for extra speed
 
@DennisKaarsemaker Oh yeah I looked into doing that with exim.
 
7:31 PM
@Wesley don't. You loose your mailspool when rebooting :)
not a problem for this system (losing 1% of a single mail shot is fine), but you don't want that for important mail :)
 
@MDMarra Damn. Well maybe that's why no one asks questions about it, then. We all have shitty ticketing systems already. Why would anyone want a new, shitty ticketing system? :p
 
TIL that sometimes you have to ramdisk mailspool. Wait, is it just me or does that sound like a VERY BAD IDEA??
 
@DennisKaarsemaker It's just email, it's not that important.
 
@HopelessN00b Because you tie it into Orchestrator and fire up the self-service portal and then let IT run itself
 
@Jacob Email in general is a very bad idea. Implemented even more badly.
 
7:32 PM
@Jacob it is in general. I wouldn't do it unless I'm 100% sure the mail is discardable
 
@DennisKaarsemaker Also you can commit it to disk on a best effort basis, and do full commits on graceful reboots, so unless you totally lose power you're fine.
 
@HopelessN00b it's far less shitty than the alternatives when you tie it into other System Center products
 
but when attempting ludicrous speed, ludicrous hacks are sometimes needed
 
@DennisKaarsemaker Although, as everyone knows, one in a million is next Tuesday so a business critical email will likely be in the 0.0000001% of email that gets lost per year.
 
7:34 PM
@MDMarra Oh, right... well, that's that. It'd be a tough enough fight getting them to turn up Service Manager. Let alone SCOM and ... um, the other ones that would make Service Manager useful. :(
 
@Jacob I wouldn't put anything on a ramdisk, not even tmp, if data goes away I want it to be because I finally got angry enough to take a shotgun to my server rack.
 
@TheCleaner Thanks, slowly trawling my way through their documentation and while in the comms there's nothing wrong w/ working in parallel ;)
 
@KevinSoviero but /tmp clears on reboot....
 
@voretaq7 I know... Nevermind.
 
@KevinSoviero Thinking about it wrong. I'm gonna put all our Access databases and .PSTs on a ramdisk. Next time the power goes out, I'll have made the environment here a billion times better.
 
7:36 PM
@voretaq7 TMPTIME=9999 cackles
 
Ramdisk is awesome
 
...now, if only I could figure out a way to get management loaded onto a RAMdisk...
 
not even trolling
 
@BigHomie not "even" trolling, does that mean you're doing more than trolling?
 
@KevinSoviero Or that he's "odd" trolling. Trolling oddly, perhaps?
 
7:37 PM
@KevinSoviero that means ramdisk is awesome
 
@Wesley . . . doesn't matter. clear_tmp_enable="YES" -- /tmp clears on reboot
@BigHomie ramdisk is awesome for certain things
 
@voretaq7 agreed, that means at least some of the time it's......
 
@voretaq7 Oops, sorry, it's TMPTIME=-1, and Debian honors it over everything else afaik. CentOS too I think.
 
we use it to store tempfiles that have a really short lifetime (like <10sec). Really we should be malloc()ing and using RAM directly, but that requires the developers to do work, and this gave us a 100% performance boost (on top of the 300% performance boost from the developers refactoring)
@Wesley doesn't matter on *BSD. the RC scripts don't check time, they just check if they should clear /tmp or not.
 
@voretaq7 I use ramdisk for Mongo shards because it's eventually consistent... right? That's what that means, right?
 
7:39 PM
@Wesley hashtag-#SeemsLegit. hashtag-#NoSQLNoIntegrity hashtag-#HateYourData
 
So this is an actual question I just found:
> I know /tmp as it named is a temporary dircory, Debian policy is to clean /tmp at boot. However, I'd like to configure my Ubuntu Server to stop deleting files from /tmp on boot due to custom configuration issue. How do I configure behavior of boot scripts to stop deleting files on boot?
I died.
I'd like to configure my Ubuntu Server to stop deleting files from /tmp on boot due to custom configuration issue.
 
lulz
 
On that note, is it just me or is this whole BigData/NoSQL/etc. a fad?
 
@Wesley "Don't configure it that way shithead."
@KevinSoviero Big Data is real
NoSQL is.... not really useful if you have Big Data (IMHO)
 
7:42 PM
Ok, fine is the use of BigData/NoSQL/etc. in start ups a fad?
 
What with SQL being based on this thing called Relational Algebra, and having mathematical proofs that say "This is how you should store your shit", I tend to think it's better suited to - ya know - storing my shit.
@KevinSoviero "Startups don't have Big Data" :-)
 
^ wat
dammit
 
@voretaq7 They seem to love MongoDB, ElasticSearch, Cassandra, and nearly anything else in the BigData party.
 
IDK if it's a fad, but I'm not a fan of the idea.
 
It was 30F here this morning.
In Texas...
 
7:43 PM
@KevinSoviero they love buzzwords.
 
@voretaq7 not true at all. My sql database has a table with almost 20k rows and it takes 300 megs of disk space - that's big data right there
 
It snowed in New York. Fuck you all.
@RyJones 1980 called, they want their removable disk packs back :-)
 
@Wesley Think of all the zebras you saved by posting that!
 
@voretaq7 I think we're the fuckers and you're the fuckee mate
 
@RyJones I'm mailing you a groundhog. Don't open the box until it stops making noise.
 
7:44 PM
@voretaq7 that's almost, word for word, what I got out of someone mewling about big data
I had multi-terabyte data sets in a star configuration in the 90s when the largest spindle you could buy was 4 god damn gigabytes don't talk to me about big data
 
@RyJones This is when I'd usually whip out my 4M row 2GB table and say "This isn't even CLOSE to big yet", but when we refactored our software we got rid of that table.
(on the bright side our backups run faster now!)
 
@KevinSoviero To take the alternate position, BigData might be a fad... but if it is, it's only because we're so bad at using it properly. If you can achieve results with BigData, you can make mountains of money. Search and Social Networking are the first to do that well enough to make obscene fortunes... but won't be the last.
 
@HopelessN00b Worth noting that Search is still largely SQL backed, and Social.... isn't.
 
BigData + medical sector... gotta figure that's worth more than the billions made form better searches and ... imaginary friends on a website.
 
@HopelessN00b Medical Big Data is hard
everything is silo'd
and you're legally proscribed from looking into anyone else's silo
 
7:48 PM
I think my biggest issue with big data is that I don't want to have to learn a whole bunch of new shit.
 
@KevinSoviero do you know SQL?
 
@voretaq7 Only a little, not sure what a join is.
 
@KevinSoviero Go learn SQL :)
 
@KevinSoviero IT is nothing but learning a whole buncha new shit. Preferably while getting paid. And without pants.
 
@voretaq7 Why? That's why we have DBAs.
 
7:48 PM
it'll be more globally useful than "NoSQL" and you can pick that shit up as you need it
 
@voretaq7 Tru that, but take even something as "simple" as mapping the human genome, and correlating genes to diseases and risk and new medicines... big monies, and you don't need to get through HIPPA or whatever to bank off that.
 
@KevinSoviero because DBAs are slow
 
@KevinSoviero And what's wrong with DBAing? More money for less work.
 
@HopelessN00b no but you need the raw data, and the only way to get that is with a few million in research grants to establish your own silo (which you won't be allowed to share with anyone else)
 
2014-04-16T18:16:10.672Z cpu15:42281)ScsiDeviceIO: 2337: Cmd(0x412fc3e23100) 0x85, CmdSN 0x898102 from world 34559 to dev "naa.60026b902cd02000197bbc06062eb897" failed H:0x0 D:0x2 P:0x0 Valid sense data: 0x5 0x20 0x0
all over my vkernel log...
 
7:50 PM
@HopelessN00b Maybe I should go be a Python dev...
 
@voretaq7 Learn SQL? What's there to learn? All I need to know is SELECT * FROM * and I'm good
/sarc
 
@voretaq7 Go to Africa, give the locals 10 cents for a DNA sample, show results, the red tape will clear itself.
 
@HopelessN00b that's just establishing your own silo on the cheap, with one small subset of the population
 
@BigHomie Yeah, there better not be more to SQL than that.. or I've been lying on my resume for years.
@voretaq7 Well, upload your silo to TPB. Not siloed anymore. :p
 
@HopelessN00b Aaaaaand now you have a legal problem :)
that's really all you need to know
 
7:54 PM
our remote dev team keeps blaming everything they do on git having bugs
no, you're incompetent
2
 
@voretaq7 All my SQL tables are square, not circle-shaped. What the hell am I supposed to do with all that circle bullshit?
 
@HopelessN00b You need to upgrade SQL obviously.
Round tables were introduced in SQL:2003
 
I still don't understand SQL joins, what are those diagrams telling me?
 
@voretaq7 Glass tables were introduced in 2k8
 
@voretaq7 That's why you do your initial data collection in Africa (or China, or w/e) where they don't have the same innovation-crushing legal environment we do in the "civilized" world.
 
7:57 PM
@BigHomie Glass tables are a NoSQL thing :)
@HopelessN00b when you bring the data here it becomes subject to our laws
i.e. you can't release any "medical records" without properly anonymizing them to the point of non-utility
 
So...how's it possible that a misbehaving VM could bring down the entire ESXi host...?
 
@voretaq7 ...which is exactly why the revolutionary biotech is coming out of emerging economies, rather than ours. Progress won't stop for our laws, it will flee where they don't apply. :(
 
nevermind...buggy E1008e drivers apparently.
 

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