The Comms Room

12:00 AM

@HopelessN00b I found out they were removed, when the VPN tunnel to Azure stopped letting traffic through, and I never got a notification about it...

a vpn tunnel that's also monitored by solarwinds

im setting up some RRAS servers for redundancy now...

HopelessN00b

Alright, I gotta go get a Dr.'s note for ~~mommy~~ HR/boss. BBIAB.

mossy

12:14 AM

My instructor is annoying.

All my assignments are similar lol

GIVE ME FULL CREDIT YOU SON OF A BITCH

Mark Henderson

@mossy I had a teacher like that. Their theory was "There is always room for improvement"

So you could never get full marks from him

mossy

Making me MAD Mark

Hold me back

Mark Henderson

@mossy Hell no; destroy him

Mathias R. Jessen

@MarkHenderson Up until the point where the students realize that this is in fact the case, I believe that this is a perfect motivational scheme - forcing them to chase the dragon :D

►

mossy

lol

Mathias R. Jessen

12:23 AM

And up until then, @mossy will be all like "No, no, I can get the 21 mark, I know I can"

ewwhite

1:06 AM

I just learned today that people still read Slashdot. In other news, people still run Gentoo. And BSD still is not dead.

Tweeted by AaronToponce on February 5, 2014 at 11:56 PM

Joel E Salas

@ewwhite Do you feel old sir

HopelessN00b

@ewwhite Well, what's out there that tops slashdot? (Even in its current, shadow-of-its-former-glory self.)

ewwhite

I AM old @joel.

voretaq7

@HopelessN00b news.google.com and Twitter.

ewwhite

Netcraft says BSD is dead!!

Joel E Salas

1:13 AM

@HopelessN00b reddit, hackernews, etc etc

MDMarra

@JoelESalas HN is great to learn how to expand your verticals while bootstrapping your startup with the laser focus to disrupt the major players in your industry while securing a high valuation in your angel round.

5

jscott

Flagged

voretaq7

@MDMarra Stop trying to set off the spam ram.

MDMarra

:(

Jacob

I am so confused

MDMarra

1:20 AM

news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-57618407-83/…

Andrew

@MDMarra There's something in the wifi!

MDMarra

Middle of nowhere Russia - who thought that would be a good idea to host an Olympics

Andrew

@MDMarra The IOC, what would they know about running Olympics?

MDMarra

Apparently not a lot

Have you seen some of the reports?

One of the Yahoo! sports guys just tweeted "I have three light bulbs - looking to trade for a door handle. Yes I'm serious"

To anyone in Sochi: I am now in possession of three light bulbs. Will trade for a door handle. This offer is real: http://t.co/7AeesqDi8Y

Tweeted by DanWetzel on February 4, 2014 at 10:23 PM

voretaq7

Here: thinkgeek.com/product/1107

You're all welcome.

Joel E Salas

1:29 AM

@MDMarra There's no such thing as privacy in russia

HopelessN00b

@JoelESalas "Eww," "eww," and "?" Reddit's social media blech, and hackernews.... I made better looking, more usable webpages in 1994. When I was 12, so it's not really possible to take it seriously. :p

Joel E Salas

@HopelessN00b So don't use them?

Only the crustiest of old technologists use slashdot

HopelessN00b

@JoelESalas Well, I don't. Leaves me with the original question of "what beats slashdot?"

Joel E Salas

I'm saying these days anything beats slashdot, none of the thought leaders use it anymore

they've moved on to the aforementioned services

HopelessN00b

@JoelESalas So, it's like the dark ages, when the thought leaders gave up civilization and "moved on" to cowering in feudal manors, for fear of the rampaging barbarians? :p I guess I can get on board with that description. :)

Jacob

1:35 AM

foxnews.com/politics/2014/02/05/…

HopelessN00b

@Jacob That a judge actually had to say this is a serious indictment of our country.

Joel E Salas

@HopelessN00b In my case, avoiding speed traps can mean avoiding an ass-beating

Jacob

@HopelessN00b no a judge said that free speech is free speech

HopelessN00b

@JoelESalas Right, it's a public service. I'm also far less likely to shoot a ~~despicable piece of human trash, highway-robber~~ cop in the face 17 times if I don't get pulled over, so it's really better for everyone.

@Jacob Right. That a judge actually had to issue that ruling in the first place is a serious indictment of our country. Because some piece of shit actually tried to argue that it should be illegal to tell others where the cops are.

voretaq7

@HopelessN00b Not really. Now there's a clear precedent that it's not "Interference with a law enforcement officer in the performance of his/her duties"

HopelessN00b

1:40 AM

@voretaq7 Which was the implicit understanding everyone had for decades before some piece of shit cop/DA said otherwise.

Joel E Salas

right, if I spot cops ahead and I decide I don't want to get hassled today, why not just pull over or even turn around and head home?

Mind you, I haven't broken any laws yet or done anything wrong

voretaq7

@HopelessN00b and you think this was an isolated incident?

MDMarra

The guy that just joined the room is my new hero

aaaand he's gone

voretaq7

This is how the legal system works: A suit is filed, it is taken to verdict, and a precedent is established.

Joel E Salas

@MDMarra ??

MDMarra

1:42 AM

@JoelESalas chat.stackexchange.com/users/108256/pliz-make-me-cum-in-ur-haus

Joel E Salas

@MDMarra Oh yes, this guy

HopelessN00b

@voretaq7 No. There have been similar rulings in my state, and undoubtedly others. Also an indictment of our country that the opposing position was ever taken seriously in a court of law.

See what I'm saying?

voretaq7

@HopelessN00b yes, but I don't agree with it. (I agree that the position is bogus, but again: this is how the legal system works - the government overreaches and the courts slap them down)

HopelessN00b

"Judge rules that foreigners have the right not to be curb-stomped for talking to a white person" would be a serious indictment of our country, because the existence of that ruling is predicated on someone seriously arguing the opposite position in a court of law, (without summary dismissal and threats of being held in contempt of court.)

Joel E Salas

@HopelessN00b I don't know man, it said that they backed down but the ACLU filed a lawsuit anyway

so it was the ACLU extra-badgering them, not that it became a matter of justice

HopelessN00b

1:45 AM

@JoelESalas Well, because if the ACLU didn't, the cops would pull the same BS on the next motorist (and probably get away with it).

Joel E Salas

@HopelessN00b I agree, I'm sure they would. I'm just saying the police department DID back down from their standpoint before bringing the courts into it

HopelessN00b

@JoelESalas Doesn't really count as backing down, IMO, if you're just baking down so you can do it again as soon as someone's not looking. And more to the point, it speaks to a systematic corruption in the system when police are routinely pulling over motorists for non-offenses, and then committing a felony (perjury or whatever it is when it's written) by writing a phony ticket... and then getting off scot-free after doing so.

I mean, technically, since we're at war, it's even a capital offense (abuse of the flag/color of authority during wartime), not that any cop's even gonna have their pay docked over doing it.

..meanwhile, you've got a guy doing 3 and a half years in federal prison for running a [non-malicious] script against the AT&T website. Hurrah for the American legal system.

kce

@MDMarra - What's the deal with this guy?

ewwhite

@HopelessN00b Let's move to Norway!

MDMarra

no clue

I'd imagine hes attempting to troll but doesnt have enough rep

HopelessN00b

1:53 AM

@ewwhite Meh. Had enough of long, cold winters in Canada. Switzerland, mbe.

kce

Not enough rep to troll, dang times are tough.

HopelessN00b

@MDMarra Yeah, Mark was in here earlier saying he was a repeat offender. Used to have a Nazi nick and gravatar, and something else vulgar before that.

MDMarra

He must have a lot of free time

jscott

Does "ignore user" also hide the user's posts?

voretaq7

@HopelessN00b don't feed (or mention) the troll please.

HopelessN00b

1:56 AM

Yup. Not that he has any posts to worry about.

voretaq7

it only encourages them.

I'll keep punting him periodically but he's basically just working his way up to a network-wide ban at this point

HopelessN00b

@voretaq7 It's... career development? I'm exercising my precognitive abilities, which are in never-ending demand in the IT profession.

voretaq7

@HopelessN00b "The server is going to crash."

Pay me. :)

HopelessN00b

@voretaq7 I was thinking more along the lines of "why the hell didn't you fix it before it broke?!?!?!" but I guess that works too.

voretaq7

Then how would I ever look like a hero?!

Andrew

2:00 AM

So... Iron Mountain might not be a good choice for archival

If you don't have 2 copies, you have 0 copies.

HopelessN00b

No, by that point, it's usually all I can do to walk away without showing someone's head through the nearest Ethernet port/jack.

Joel E Salas

@Andrew That's wholly unfortunate, lots of places in south america don't have the same building codes we do

voretaq7

@Andrew oh...oh my

Joel E Salas

Also real talk for a second: There's no fucking way I'm risking my life to save documents

voretaq7

@JoelESalas seriously.

Let it burn.

MDMarra

2:02 AM

People are crazy

HopelessN00b

@Andrew Well, isn't Iron Mountain supposed to be just an off-site storage facility.. where you send your other backup disks?

Joel E Salas

@HopelessN00b glacier

HopelessN00b

@JoelESalas Yeah, I don't think that's been around since 1997, though.

MDMarra

@voretaq7 cant you chatban that fellow?

Joel E Salas

@MDMarra his main profile is on anime and manga, is anyone at all surprised

voretaq7

2:04 AM

@MDMarra he is chatbanned, apparently it doesn't prevent him from joining rooms, so just ignore him

HopelessN00b

@JoelESalas I guess I'm a horrible human being, because the first thing I think of reading that article is "why couldn't that happen at the local IRS or courthouse building?"

@voretaq7 mSO feature request?

voretaq7

@HopelessN00b For chat? 6-8 years.

jscott

Really? askubuntu.com/questions/417031/…

HopelessN00b

Lazy devs. >:/ "Fix my fucking server NOW, gawddammit!!!"

Hmm. That feels good... I can see why users say it to IT all the time.

@jscott Kid obviously hasn't yet discovered that the internet can be used to download porn. It's almost sweet when you think of it like that.

MDMarra

If anyone cares meta.stackoverflow.com/q/219815/143112

HopelessN00b

2:12 AM

If you're a praying man, I recommend this. — HopelessN00b 29 secs ago

I even cared enough to spend 7 seconds on Google regarding the issue. You should feel honored. Or something.

MDMarra

#blessed

Andrew

#bless

@MDMarra FTFY

Ryan Ries

Ugh... so busy

Just when I thought I was starting to get this AD shit on lockdown, now I'm wondering why my DC is not outbound replicating, even though DISABLE_OUTBOUND_REPL is not set. -__-

Andrew

2:28 AM

Free e-book! jeena.net/images/2012/PHP-The-Good-Parts.pdf

HopelessN00b

@MDMarra lol. Well, if no one else does, at least the troll cares. And he's pissing in the SE devs' sandbox now!

@Andrew Not sure the first good thing about PHP is really a good thing. Cancer is also widely available, to provide a counter-point.

Andrew

@DennisKaarsemaker look, it got "printed"!

I wonder what works as ~~clickbait~~ starbait in SF chat...

HopelessN00b

@Andrew Same things as always. Penises, boobies, 55-gallon drums of lube and particularly good examples of that jaded-sysadmin outlook we all share.

Shane Madden

2:55 AM

So, having a client's system send several thousand DNS queries per second for random uncachable subdomains of some chinese domain is pretty good fun.

HopelessN00b

@ShaneMadden Blackhole *.cn and its IP blocks, take a nap, bill for 6 hours?

Shane Madden

@HopelessN00b Heh. Queries coming from inside the local network.. probably a botnet zombie gone crazy on that client's system. So yeah, dropping all of their queries did the job just fine.

Surprisingly small amount of traffic completely destroyed that recursor, though. Too many outstanding recursions going at once (waiting for the timeout from the chinese NS before sending a servfail) I think.

HopelessN00b

Another example of why DNS amplification attacks work. Hmmm... guess there's really no way to prevent that if the botnet gets its hooks inside your network.

Shane Madden

It wasn't even trying to amplify, gotta hit a big cached entry for that. These were all A queries for broken names, but none of them were cachable since it was a different random subdomain for each query.

Andrew

3:12 AM

welovephp.tumblr.com

HopelessN00b

@ShaneMadden Hmm. So what do you figure the malware was actually trying to accomplish?

Shane Madden

@HopelessN00b My best guess is it was a bug. A lot of them use an algorithm for selection of DNS names for where the command and control servers will be at a certain time - guessing it went crazy and got into an infinite loop of trying candidate names.

It was a surprisingly effective DoS against that DNS server, but that was pretty clearly not the goal or it would have been from more than just those couple hosts in the client's net - these are public recursors.

Shane Madden

3:39 AM

Oof. It's cold.

-8F at 8PM is a little ridiculous.

HopelessN00b

4:07 AM

Heh. Just asked my first question on workplace.SE... I'm feeling an odd mixture of self-amusement and mild shame that seems vaguely reminiscent of masturbation.

0

Q: Is it generally appropriate to expense the cost of getting a work excuse/doctor's note?

The company I work for has a policy in effect that is ridiculous, but somewhat commonplace in my experience, where an employee who misses three days of work in a week (or in a row) is required to supply a doctor's note/work excuse upon returning to work. The company also, incidentally, provides ...

Mark Henderson

@HopelessN00b That's a ridiculous policy? Here that's basically par for the course, everywhere I've ever worked has required it

Of course, here a trip to the doctor is completely free...

Also I suspect you are still under the influence of strong painkillers when you wrote it

HopelessN00b

@MarkHenderson I think it is. I subscribe to the theory of hiring that states if you can't trust your employees, you made a mistake hiring them in the first place. (And should probably cut your loses.) Doubly so because the doctor's note (for liability reasons) is literally a form letter stating that the patient (me) went to a doctor and claimed to be sick enough to miss X days of work. There's absolutely no diagnosis or medical work involved.

@MarkHenderson Nothing stronger than DayQuil, which I last took 14 hours ago or so.

(So sadly, we can't blame that on drugs. That post is just me being me.)

Mark Henderson

@HopelessN00b This was what caught my eye

> For what it's worth, I fully intend to file this expense report tomorrow, and if I wake up on the wrong side of the bed, will probably add the .89 cents to replace the key I lost on the way, and probably the ~$4.50 in mileage too. ...and yeah, that does strike me as at least a bit unreasonable, but am still unsure about whether or not trying to expense the doctor's visit itself is unreasonable/inappropriate.

Shane Madden

I think I might have worked at one place that had that policy.

Mark Henderson

Something about 89c for a key?

Shane Madden

4:14 AM

Though for the most part I've worked at places where sick time and vacation time are the same bucket, so it doesn't matter if it's sick time or not.

HopelessN00b

@MarkHenderson Yeah, a key fell off my keyring (somehow) between here and getting back from the Dr.'s. And yeah, I am pissy and dickish enough that if I wake up in a bad mood, I'll put that on the expense report too.

Mark Henderson

@HopelessN00b ... you got a key copied for 89 cents?

Fuck here that's like 3 bucks

HopelessN00b

Well, I may have to pay more for doctor's visits, but at least I save almost 70% on small chunks of metal.

Hopefully your next job will be with a company that supplies better-than-normal health benefits - and I suspect you'll need to start looking for that job sooner rather than later if you file this expense claim tomorrow. — Carson63000 2 mins ago

^^ Amused. :) ^^

Mark Henderson

They'd fire you over an expense claim?

Surely they would just say "Yeah, no..." and move on

HopelessN00b

@MarkHenderson No. And, amusingly, part of the background I chopped out was that I have practically absolute job security, on top of the fact that we just don't fire people. Like, the lady who's been caught red-handed twice (and confronted about it, twice) fabricating her time sheets. She still works there, and I don't think they even docked her pay. It would have been funny if it was someone else digging through the firewall logs to get the evidence.

Actually, it still was funny. I did chuckle a little when I found out that nothing happened.

Mark Henderson

4:25 AM

@HopelessN00b Haha I get in trouble for timesheets too, but usually because I don't bother filling them in and then go and back-fill them at the end of the week

HopelessN00b

@MarkHenderson You know, now that you mention it, it reminds me... we did fire a contractor once, for under-reporting his hours. That was decidedly not amusing, and the boss man got quite a few earfuls from a few people about that decision.

Mark Henderson

@HopelessN00b What what?

That... doesn't make sense

HopelessN00b

Yeah, and it doesn't make sense after having the boss try to explain it several times, either.

We really turn office dysfunction into an art form... or at least performance theater.

2

Well, 'night Mark. I've got a busy day ahead of me, filing unreasonable expense reports, and I don't want to be tired for it. :)

Mark Henderson

4:44 AM

haha fair enough

Night

Chris S

Speaking of GoDaddy, "How I Lost My $50,000 Twitter Username: A story of how PayPal and GoDaddy allowed the attack and caused me to lose my $50,000 Twitter username." Don't use GoDaddy, and at the very least, do your client a service by sending them that link. — HopelessN00b 34 mins ago

I just read that. This is EXACTLY why I hate recovery questions.

I always fill in such recovery crap with randomly generated crap.

And so few places will let you lock your account. I don't want anyone, not even me, "recovering" my accounts.

I know the passwords. And they're crazy secure. Nobody else should get in, ever.

Also worth noting, name.com (who I'm using despite lacking good DNSSEC support) allows you to set your account to disable e-mail recovery. Not sure what they'd do over the phone, might have to contact their support and see if there's options available.

Magellan

5:01 AM

is there any sane reason to set DNS timeouts to 1 network-wide?

Andrew

@ChrisS the insanity there is how many places just assume that people are who they say they are. including most corporate "internal-facing" helpdesks...

Chris S

@Andrew Eh, I'm good with that assumption, until there's evidence otherwise. Eg, you should not be allowed to guess CC numbers, nor should it be a form of identification in the first place.

HopelessN00b

5:25 AM

Yeah, I do that too, but I doubt it'll actually do me any good, because when push comes to shove, they'll let someone else "recover" my account with my SSN or CC or whatever.

Oh, and I guess I lied about going to sleep. I tried, it's not happening, so, I'm gonna see about maybe doing something productive or amusing instead.

Shane Madden

@Magellan Nope. Most caches won't respect that, anyway.

If something's gonna cache DNS, it's gonna do so for at least a minute. Usually 5.

HopelessN00b

Oh yeah, and I read that story on slashdot before it was anywhere else, to all the slashdot haters in here. :p

Andrew

@HopelessN00b I still read slashdot, but I'm really hating the beta layout

HopelessN00b

Likewise. I'm pretty sure I've said it up above, but in case not... it's definitely a shadow of its former self, but I haven't been able to find anything better.I can't get away with just reading it anymore, and don't bother commenting, but don't understand the hatred for it..

Maybe the beta layout is an attempt to kill it off, and force everyone somewhere else, though. Seems to be the only logical explanation, given all the feedback I've seen about the new layout.

Like Windows 8.

Andrew

5:50 AM

like the ars technica "new layout", too.

Websites trying to use "tiles" can go jump. Off a cliff. Into Mount Doom.

HopelessN00b

Yeah... but as much as I've read it, I've always thought the Ars layout sucked. Don't think they've ever had one I'd describe in terms other than more or less sucky.

MikeyB

6:23 AM

Wow... an oldie, but someone needs to learn the difference between encoding and encrypting

0

Q: SMTP hacked by spammer using base64 encoding to authenticate

Over the past day we've detected someone from China using our server to send spam email. It's very likely that he's using a weak username/password to access our SMTP server, but the problem is that he appears to be using base64 encoding to prevent us from finding out which account he's using. Her...

security email smtp spam hacking

HopelessN00b

@MikeyB Pffft. Says you. I've been encrypting my emails with ROT13 for years.

Dammit, encoding. I've been encoding my emails with ROT13 for years. Can't even be witty with this fucking bug in my system. >:/ Damn nature.

voretaq7

@HopelessN00b encoding, encrypting, what's the difference? Most people are too stupid to understand English so anything worth talking about is pretty much secure as plaintext anyway!

HopelessN00b

@voretaq7 Well, the difference is that I need to get it right so that I can quip at other people for getting it wrong.

It's hard to feel high-and-mighty when you're down in the gutters with the common folk, after all.

ewwhite

7:14 AM

Any VPN gurus here?

HopelessN00b

7:27 AM

Nope. And it looks like the network guy I work with is sleeping.

Journeyman Geek

waken him with fire?

@HopelessN00b I liked the old, pre corporate overlord version

HopelessN00b

@JourneymanGeek Well, I kinda like the guy, and also have this stance that I'll kill anyone in the morning who wakes me up in the middle of the night for BS. And God knows I hate a hypocrite...

Journeyman Geek

(annoyingly the mobile site is perfect)

HopelessN00b

@JourneymanGeek Yeah, I'm not sure what I didn't like about some of the previous Ars layouts... (like the corporate overlord one) I just know I thought they all sucked to some significant degree.

Journeyman Geek

@HopelessN00b: I'm thinking waaaay back

HopelessN00b

7:36 AM

@JourneymanGeek Yeah, I think I remember the one you're talking about. Didn't like it either, but can't remember why. :)

Journeyman Geek

oh, yeah, anyone else run your own TTRSS instance?

HopelessN00b

8:02 AM

Fuck. I think I just wrote some kid's homework assignment for him. :(

Falcon Momot

8:12 AM

oi

Iain

@FalconMomot how're your magnets ?

Falcon Momot

@Iain Much better. It was excruciating on the plane back; now they just sting a bit, and I can kind of feel my laptop fan. Still not typing with those fingers though.

thanks for asking :)

Iain

@FalconMomot which fingers did you have done ?

Falcon Momot

@Iain both my ring fingers

Iain

I was just reading up on them

Falcon Momot

8:24 AM

I'm insanely excited for when they heal up

Iain

I'm sure :)

HopelessN00b

@FalconMomot What's this, now? You have magnets implanted into your fingers?

Falcon Momot

@HopelessN00b yeah, since last night

Iain

How do they numb your fingers for the procedure ?

HopelessN00b

@FalconMomot Noice! I'd be interested in how that turns out... sounds like it could be a pretty nifty thing to have done.

Falcon Momot

8:32 AM

@HopelessN00b the people I know who have them really like them

HopelessN00b

Of course, you can't get a doctor to do anything like that in this country.... and I'm not about to go hacking at my body with a scalpel and some antiseptic. It just wouldn't end well. :(

Falcon Momot

@Iain lots of ice

Iain

interesting - why not a local anaesthetic ?

Falcon Momot

@Iain the law, alas.

it's a really dumb law

you'd need to subdermally inject it to be effective as they do go rather deep

HopelessN00b

@FalconMomot Oh, sounds like the same legal situation we have over here, where it's not really legal for a medical professional to do it, or use the proper medications for the task, because drugs are evil. Well, some are. Sometimes.

Falcon Momot

8:41 AM

@HopelessN00b I keep forgetting where everyone is

HopelessN00b

USA

Falcon Momot

aah! I am there right now myself.

HopelessN00b

@FalconMomot Oh, I see I'm an ex-pat of yours. Thought you were Euro.

Falcon Momot

TSA agents are so nice. I have no idea why people hate on them so much. You should try CATSA agents!

@HopelessN00b you're a Canadian living in the US? or...

also, I work European hours sometimes :P

HopelessN00b

@FalconMomot I don't like being pornographed or groped (by large men), and resent the government abrogation of our constitutionally guaranteed in rights. Some combination of those factors is usually the answer for most 'Muricans.

@FalconMomot Yup. Grew up in Canada, spent the 2nd half of my life south of the 49th.

Falcon Momot

8:45 AM

@HopelessN00b that only happens to me when entering US federal buildings

I'm exempt from the millimeter-wave stripping machine, which helps

In Canada I think the argument about rights is stronger in this case. In the US, do you have the constitutional right to move between states and reside in whichever you choose?

HopelessN00b

@FalconMomot Lucky you, I suppose... (and yet another reason to avoid government buildings when possible) but that's not the experience of most Americans. For most Americans, the TSA are the pain-in-the-ass causing long lines at the airports, without adding any security, who may possibly steal cash from your wallet, racially profile you or any one of sozens of other well-publicized scandals the TSA's been at the center of around here.

Falcon Momot

@HopelessN00b aah.

HopelessN00b

@FalconMomot Yes. No. Depends on how the government decides to contort the interstate commerce clause on any particular issue or day of the week. But the expectation is that it's one country, and I have the right to pack up and move to the other side of it on a whim.

Falcon Momot

it took me less than 2 minutes to clear security both going to and from phoenix yesterday.

also, flying only in the middle of the week helps

@HopelessN00b that interstate commerce phrasing is fucked up

HopelessN00b

Yeah, last few times I flew it was decent for that reason... but to me, they're still the blatantly unconstitutional organization reminding me of the new American police state... so at the very best, I'm going to strongly resent their mere existence, let alone when I have to interact with them.

Falcon Momot

8:52 AM

I think the checkpoints in federal buildings are a worse sin

or courthouses

because these are places I can be legally compelled to go to, or the avoidance of which means not having a bank account or some similar privation.

HopelessN00b

Agreed. But the exposure to courthouses and federal buildings among the general population is much lower than the exposure to airports. ... Hence the TSA being made bigger deal of, because it's more visible, and more people are in contact with it.

Falcon Momot

yeah.

I also hate it when toll transponders are interrogated for tracking purposes

HopelessN00b

Heh. Worry about the GPS tracker in your pocket instead. :)

Falcon Momot

that one isn't linked in a government database to my name and address.

HopelessN00b

@FalconMomot I wouldn't be so sure about that. It's linked in your cell provider's database, and we all know the government has open, unfettered access to that anytime they want it.

Falcon Momot

8:56 AM

now, to be technical, that part isn't GPS

anyway, there is a gulf between private information the government can get access to, and government information

HopelessN00b

Right, but the GPS tracker part is still physically connected to the other part. :)

Falcon Momot

the former requires more justification and at least creates controversy when it is used.

the latter could be used in court without a warrant.

well, in canadian law anyway... no idea about here

HopelessN00b

@FalconMomot Well, down here, the Snowden leaks proved what everyone's known for decades - that the government can and routinely does use NSA/CIA/DIA/CSS-gathered information in court without a warrant. I think it's called probable construction, or some euphemism for the practice of calling it in to the cops, who then commit perjury regarding the source of the information.

Falcon Momot

@HopelessN00b disgusting.

I was slightly shocked to hear the NSA was making anonymous tips to the IRS

HopelessN00b

Yeah. Honestly, I can see both sides of it... sometimes (real-life anecdote time)...

You're on an intelligence agency tap for an expected narco-terrorism meeting taking place at a domestic motel, and because of the technical limitations of the [excuse for a] PBX they're running, you can't tap just one line, you have to tap them all. So you do, intending trace the org hierarchy back to the Haji calling the shots back in Afghanistan... and inadvertently hear some grandmother pimping out her preteen granddaughter for crack. It's not like you can just let that go, so somehow, the local PD g…

...and worst of all, it's only gonna get worse, and at some point we'll be left with only the faintest notion of what "freedom" is or used to mean. After we fought WWII and the Cold War to precisely rid the world of this type of tyranny... abroad, anyway. :(

Falcon Momot

9:11 AM

well

HopelessN00b

(sorry.. I think I'm done ranting.)

Falcon Momot

the real problem is that the law impugns things that shouldn't be impugned.

it's silly to defend people's right to break the law in anonymity

however, the real outrage is that people are being prosecuted for things and given disproportionate consequences for those things, when perhaps there should be no consequence at all.

that the government is apparently stepping out of its way to facilitate this overreach is even worse

HopelessN00b

@FalconMomot Definitely one of them. You'd think this country would have learned it's lesson with alcohol prohibition, at least. That got us organized crime, but we weren't satisfied, so we tried it again and got nacro-terrorist organizations with more more than some nation states for our troubles. I can only cringe at imagining what hell we'll unleash on ourselves next.

Falcon Momot

the other aspect is that we don't like to be watched, axiomatically.

HopelessN00b

...but I can take some small solace in the thought that I might not live to see it. :)

Falcon Momot

9:14 AM

lol

who knows?

HopelessN00b

@FalconMomot Well, back in the day, they used to say it's better to let 100 guilty men go free, than imprison 1 innocent man. These days, it seems that we're willing to imprison 100 innocents to get one guilty man.... no surprise shit's all fucked up.

(RICO, for starters.)

Falcon Momot

well, also, define innocent.

Dennis Kaarsemaker

I'm innocent

Falcon Momot

jailing 100 people for $1000 of tax evasion to catch one terrorist is quite nasty also.

HopelessN00b

@FalconMomot I'm strictly speaking about people who aren't guilty of what they're accused of.. not even getting into the thousands of crimes that shouldn't be crimes thing.

Falcon Momot

9:16 AM

I'd like to see the governments of the first world, and their civil services, to take a step back and ask "why are we doing this?"

HopelessN00b

@FalconMomot Might not like the answer...

Falcon Momot

in Canada things are quite forward thinking in this

HopelessN00b

How's that go? "What's the point of having power? To get more power."

Falcon Momot

like, if you cheat on your taxes and get caught, it's usually enough to pay the taxes plus interest... and we have almost automatic pardons.

because people asked "what is the point of disenfranchising someone for life over minor crimes?" and effectively slapped a time limit on it.

HopelessN00b

@FalconMomot (Not that that's even an easy feat with the levels of taxation up there. When I left, the average Canadian family - wife, husband, 2.1 kids - paid 51% of their gross income in taxation.)

Falcon Momot

9:19 AM

but yes, the domestic intelligence thing is worse and has a much stronger power motive.

...man, typing is difficult

@HopelessN00b as an Albertan resident, even making 100k a year and being single, it's more like 35%

HopelessN00b

@FalconMomot Yeah, Google's gotta get that neural computer interface thing working already. My fingers get tired.

Falcon Momot

@HopelessN00b it's really hard to avoid pressing any buttons with either of my ring fingers.

actually... try it for a line or so. you may notice it is a pain in the ass.

entirely self-inflicted I know, but a pain in the ass nonetheless.

HopelessN00b

@FalconMomot Includes all forms of taxation, including GST, PST, income tax (federal/provincial), gas taxes, property taxes, etc, etc. It was a big feature in MacLeans magazine in 1999, anyway.

Falcon Momot

@HopelessN00b oh, yeah. if you include gas taxes, booze taxes, property taxes, and sales tax, it's more like 42.5%

HopelessN00b

But yeah, gonna be at least a few % lower if you live in a province lucky enough to have no PST.

Falcon Momot

9:22 AM

yes

and the gst is only 5% now

HopelessN00b

Damn. Been years since I bothered to check that particular rate. :)

Economy still... lethargic, though?

Falcon Momot

nope

it's doing fine

I think I'm going to move to seattle though

HopelessN00b

Underemployment? Brain drain? They ever figure out a solution to those?

Falcon Momot

well...

no

more research might help

HopelessN00b

@FalconMomot Want to work for Ballmer's replacement, or something? :)

Falcon Momot

9:24 AM

@HopelessN00b no, my company's head office is in seattle

and I fit in a lot better here

HopelessN00b

@FalconMomot Bummer, though I can't say I'm surprised.

Falcon Momot

calgary is just so very stodgy

HopelessN00b

@FalconMomot Yeah, that's what I found out after I moved down here. I make a much better American than I do a Canadian.

Falcon Momot

I don't think I would make a very good citizen of salt lake city

but here, in particular, I think, is the right place.

HopelessN00b

@FalconMomot Neither would I. Then again, that might have something to do with why I don't choose to live surrounded by Mormons.

Falcon Momot

9:26 AM

heh

yeah

I flew through it recently... I was honestly surprised there was no statue of moroni visible from the plane.

HopelessN00b

You looking to do the TN thing, or the H1-B thing, to get to Seattle?

Falcon Momot

@HopelessN00b I have a TN now

I'm looking for an immigrant visa

HopelessN00b

Much better deal, especially now that it's a 3 year (max) term.

Falcon Momot

oh, the term is effectively unlimited, except that they request you not use it as a substitute for permanent residency.

HopelessN00b

@FalconMomot You and me both, but you can live indefinitely on TNs, if you need. I've been doing that for pushing a decade now, strictly on TNs, and I know guys who've been doing it for longer, too.

Falcon Momot

9:28 AM

and also I don't think time spent in TN status counts for naturalization years

HopelessN00b

@FalconMomot It is, but it was a pretty big pain in the ass having to head back to the border every year to get it renew, especially if you don't live right next to the border.

@FalconMomot They don't.

Falcon Momot

fortunately my company is small enough that I can just go to the executives and nag them to put together the paperwork.

HopelessN00b

@FalconMomot Good deal, then. I'm still waiting in the "my parents are [finally] naturalized citizens" line. Probably about the same waiting period... half 'til forever, give or take.

Falcon Momot

I think I have second preference due to employment

so I'm hoping it shouldn't take too terribly long

we shall see.

HopelessN00b

@FalconMomot Don't wanna burst your bubble, but I'm gonna dig up a graphic from a libertarian org on the topic. It's depressing.

But, like I said, you can live on a TN basically indefinitely, worst-case-scenario.

Falcon Momot

9:37 AM

@HopelessN00b yeah, it isn't a great concern

but I understand the timelines to be somewhat better lately.

6 years since the publication of that.

the naturalization period for me would also be only 4 years

HopelessN00b

A little. 9/11 backed it up a lot more than "normal," but even at "normal" the actual wait time was about 50% higher than the stated wait times. I think we're back down to about where it was, pre-9/11, so that a 5 year wait'll really take you 7, and like that there.

@FalconMomot Yeah, doesn't include wait times. Like, after 4 years, you apply to be naturalized, which could theoretically be instantaneous, but actually involves a few years of waiting on federal organizations to do their homework on you, and then shuffle papers between each other.

There's always a backlog, and polticians don't like to spend money on people who can't even vote for them. :)

Tom O'Connor

@HopelessN00b So the best way is to marry an american.

Or be good enough for an O-1

HopelessN00b

INS, for example, was the only federal agency still using typewriters when 9/11 happened. :O

@TomO'Connor Yup. And even that isn't like in the movies. There's a 6 month hold/wait period for the fiancee-visa, and then another 6 months for the green card after marriage, at least last I checked a couple years ago.

(You can, of course, live with your spouse/spouse-to-be on a temporary visa while you're waiting.)

Falcon Momot

@HopelessN00b according to USCIS, in my particular circumstances, there isn't a waiting list

@HopelessN00b also, who can't vote for them yet. I think "you can vote because of me; won't you vote for me?" is at least worth something :P

Tom O'Connor

@HopelessN00b Here's a question. What does the INS make of "quick" weddings.. Like if you haven't been together for 4-odd years beforehand?

Falcon Momot

9:45 AM

but yes, I know how long it takes the government to process stuff.

HopelessN00b

@FalconMomot Well, lucky you. Hopefully that mean was it sounds like it means. It could also mean that there's no wait at the USCIS... but be a backlog at the FBI/DHS to do your background check and the like. (I think that's where my green card's being held up ATM).

Falcon Momot

@TomO'Connor they do differentiate at the 2nd anniversary mark, but I forget in what cases

HopelessN00b

@FalconMomot That's after marriage.

Falcon Momot

yes, obviously.

Tom O'Connor

@FalconMomot The british immigration service prettty much deny you a spouse visa if you got married after meeting on the internet last week.

I think.

HopelessN00b

9:47 AM

@TomO'Connor Not a whole lot. As long as you don't give the impression you just met and are mainly hooking up for the visa, short engagements aren't generally a problem.

Falcon Momot

@HopelessN00b there is a good chance that might not take long in my case either...

anyway, I'll see how long it takes

pauska

@HopelessN00b will you marry me?

3

HopelessN00b

(Of course, there's a difference between a short courtship before engagement and meeting on the internet last week.)

@FalconMomot Well, good luck.

@pauska I don't have a green card yet. Check back again next year (actually, in November, I think). :p

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