The Comms Room

growse

1:02 PM

Bash is, quite literally, amazing.

Iain

@growse you can probably substitute some of your pipes with sed 1,14d

growse

@Iain probably, but sed fills me with fear.

I'm still figuring out where 'sudo' goes

Kenny Rasschaert

<3 sed

growse

I want to love sed

Kenny Rasschaert

mastering sed is on the to-do list though

currently improving my awk-fu

Iain

1:04 PM

@growse I'm not good with zfs, does zfs list ... list them in a particular order ?

growse

not guaranteed iirc

hence sort

Iain

@KennyRasschaert SO is the place for you then

Kenny Rasschaert

I feel out of place there

All those kids with their C# and RoR

Iain

@KennyRasschaert there are a few sed/awk/bash questions there each day

Kenny Rasschaert

AWK is an elegant weapon from a more civilized age.

growse

1:06 PM

If only bash did associative arrays

Chopper3

Pity we can't get 'its_me a' to help EA/Origin - they've fucked up enormously in the last day or so and could do with a wide-eyed teen coder

Dan

Cruel

Rob Moir

what have they done?

oh.. having googled a bit. That sounds like a typical EA cockup

Shads0

It's EA...a fuckup is expected

Rob Moir

EA as a company are so crap and unlucky that they could fall into a barrel of boobies and come out sucking their thumb

3

Chopper3

1:10 PM

crashed in a heap having launched a new BF3 expansion - they've charged me 3 times but don't think I've bought it once - still can't get the expansion, their online help chat is screwed, their phone number goes to a dead tone and the one girl on reception at their head office started crying when I was speaking with her

Shads0

no

it'd be a cock, not their thumb

SpacemanSpiff

lol, probably have thousands of gamers calling their corporate office line

BF3 was the game that made me decide to give up FPS gaming entirely

Rob Moir

sounds like a bad day for the poor receptionist. Probably been having that all day

EA were the company that made me give up on EA games

3

SpacemanSpiff

though I did enjoy it, the ratio of enjoyment to frustration was so far out of balance that I stood up, boxed up all my xbox equipment and traded it at gamestop or a gameboy for when i travel

Shads0

@RobMoir With that, I'm debating if I should extend my boycott to include EA. ME3 might be more important to me than SC2:HotS

Rob Moir

1:14 PM

i think you should even if i'm not sure what SC":HoTS is

Shads0

Starcraft 2: Heart of the Swarm

Rob Moir

ah ok

Shads0

I'm on a boycott of all Activision/Blizzard games because of the declining state of WoW + the real-money auction of D3. I know one person boycotting won't do much in terms of...well anything but I can sleep at night knowing I'm not giving money to the company that is exploiting it's customer base worse than EA

Rob Moir

that seems fair enough to me. I do like to try and stop giving money to companies that piss me off, so I approve... for what little my opinion is worth ;-)

Like you say, you might only be one person but its crazy to keep on supporting companies that wind you up

Chris S

1:29 PM

@Chopper3 You seem to have that effect on people.

Chopper3

I was nice!

Chris S

Chopper nice, or normal person nice? =]

Chopper3

no basis for comment

Rob Moir

imgur.com/52OEz

tombull89

@Chopper3 yeah, there's been a lot of "Origin Support Horror" images over at Reddit. Seems the outsourcing of origins support to india wasn't the best idea.

Chopper3

1:35 PM

is it ever?

MarkM

'morning nerds

Bart De Vos

Afternoon @MarkM

MarkM

What the hell does ^WR on twitter mean?

Dan

I watched Kick Ass again the other night - that film actually gets better each time

MarkM

I'm going to spam three tweets here, bear with me

How often do you want to hear from us on Twitter? A few times a week, once a day, 2 times a day, 3 times a day?

Tweeted by firefox on December 14, 2011 at 12:17 AM

@firefox when you have an msi installer and gpo templates.

Tweeted by mdmarra on December 14, 2011 at 12:20 AM in reply to firefox

@mdmarra we're working on it. Thanks! ^WR

Tweeted by firefox on December 14, 2011 at 12:21 AM in reply to mdmarra

Dan

1:39 PM

It means "Wanker"

SpacemanSpiff

warm regards?

Chris S

@MarkM I means in our day at least the acronyms were somewhat standardized so everyone could understand them, and if you didn't you could probably find a complete list somewhere and just look it up.. but today's generation of half-whits and general idiots have no pretension of communicability nor thought of their fellow human beings... Some days I think we should just wipe and reinstall.

Bart De Vos

They are using Cotweet

WR is a user/ff representative

Scott Pack

MarkM

Ahhh

Thanks @BartDeVos

That's the first i've heard of them working on that though

I wonder if they were just trying to shut me up haha

Scott Pack

1:44 PM

@MarkM Are they working on it like they're working on TLS 1.2?

MarkM

@ScottPack That should be ready for version 96. It'll launch in 8 weeks

Dan

:D

Bart De Vos

:)

Scott Pack

@MarkM I'll queueueueueueueueue up a 'Fuck Yeah' for the appropriate moment.

SpacemanSpiff

I am quite amused when someone says something like "I've managed huge networks" but then admits then says they have no idea how to use monitoring tools.

MarkM

1:46 PM

Their rapid release schedule is a pain in the dick

2

SpacemanSpiff

Maybe their definition of "huge" is 300 desktops behind daisy chained hubs

Chris S

0

Q: Ping returns "ip no resources"

One of my clients networks keeps losing connectivity, either the network or the PC they are trying to connect to. I am running a ping from the PC to the router which runs fine most of the time and occasionally returns: Reply from 192.168.1.254 bytes=32 ip no resources What does the ip no reso...

Shads0

@tombull89 not sure if full of lulz, or should get the pitchforks

Rob Moir

speaking of lulz...
1. our CCTV system was specified, installed and configured by the people who built our new campus building
2. our CCTV system runs on its own VLAN over our network infrastructure.
3. our network infrastructure is all nicely subnetted and routed between each part of the campus
4. Panasonic (CCTV manufacturers) guru came out on site monday to see why we're still having problems 18 months after go live and has determined that all the cameras and camera monitor connections are being served by the same network port, which is

Dan

That's epic

Rob Moir

1:59 PM

that wasn't the word I used when I read their report, oddly enough

SpacemanSpiff

how big a campus?

Rob Moir

nor was it what my boss said when I showed him the report and explained what it meant to him

pfo

will still be tough legal battle ...

i imagine

Rob Moir

not that big spacemanspiff, but big enough that we've got over 20 edge switches with their own set of subnets and vlans

Dan

VLAN's are overrated. What you need is a large collection of 10Mb hubs. No drama, no config. Fit and forget - exactly what IT all about

SpacemanSpiff

2:01 PM

gotcha.... L3 links between then :)

Rob Moir

yes

pfo

@Dan true, even batter than having VTP ;)

SpacemanSpiff

funfun :) tell them to go pound sand yet?

Rob Moir

tell whom? Panasonic? Or the fitters?

SpacemanSpiff

not sure haha

Rob Moir

2:03 PM

i mean the panasonic guy was a nice chap, very reasonable, and helpful. Now you might wonder about a system that doesn't support routing in this day and age, but their documentation is very clear about this requirement and about how to set it up and about how and how not to configure their gear

so not really their fault

Dan

Serious, and maybe stupid question, I don't quite get it. Do you have different VLANs for the CCTV in different parts of the building?

pfo

@RobMoir i guess it is multicast that is causing that, right?

Rob Moir

@pfo no its all unicast

tho panasonic support multicast

@Dan yes. They're all the same vlan number but seperate vlans on each edge switch with a /24 ip range of their own

Dan

@RobMoir Right!

Rob Moir

so there's an obvious answer there

Dan

2:07 PM

To be fair, apart from the obvious work involved, what would be the issue in making it a 'flat' VLAN

You shouldn't get any performance issues, and if that's all they support...

Rob Moir

absolutely

its just a pita

Dan

Oh yeah - I'd be far from happy

And 18 months to get this answer is criminal

MarkM

@RobMoir I saw your tweet at firefox. Too funny

Did you hear that they announced an enterprise deployment schedule at LISA11?

Rob Moir

well 18 months after which we got a new company in to support our CCTV infrastructure who took one look at what the old lot had done, went "what is this, I don't even..." and phoned panasonic, hence this visit by the panasonic guru who nearly cried at some of what the old lot did

@markm :) and yes. 1 year.

as if that helps

Dan

Bad times, Rob

pfo

2:13 PM

@MarkM and it will be available by firefox 87, right?

MarkM

@pfo Yeah. That's the version set for release in January, right?

Rob Moir

And I have precisely zero point none resources to spend sorting this reconfiguration out plus the number of bugs that it will throw up even though it shouldn't because we're short of staff and putting all our shoulders behind our windows 7 thing.

MarkM

@RobMoir Are you in higher ed, or k-12?

Rob Moir

further education, which is 16-19

year olds i mean

Chris S

@MarkM Their grade system is almost completely different from ours...

MarkM

2:15 PM

So I see

tombull89

I'm so glad that we didn't do the whole "upgrade from XP to 7" path. We just had the new school built and Win 7 as standard...apart from the Digital Signage, which is XP.

MarkM

@tombull89 That's what we did too

pfo

serverfault.com/questions/340853/… what is wrong with that guy? 1000 physical servers and they are asking how to measure egress bandwith out of their DC... WTF?!

Dan

I've managed to avoid any migrations to 7 - I just treat them as Greenfield sites and they get what they're given

MarkM

At the start of one semester, all labs and classroom PCs were magically Win7 and all new computers going out were Win 7

Rob Moir

2:16 PM

@tombull89 I'm stuck trying to migrate our domain from XP with RM CC3 on top to Windows 7.

MarkM

There are some XP still in offices, but all new machines over the last 1.5 yrs have been deployed with 7

Dan

@RobMoir Hahahahah, aahahahaha hahaha haha aahhhh :(

pfo

@RobMoir what is CC3?

Dan

@pfo The devil itself in nearly every form

MarkM

I've never heard of it either

Shads0

2:17 PM

Wish I could get my boss in gear and give me the money for all the Win7 boxes I need. Sick of hearing about how slow the 10 year old boxes are

Rob Moir

Oh it'll be a "big bang" release during the summer break so it'll be a case from the user's point of view that at the start of 2012/2013 academic year, in september all the users will see their machines have magically turned into windows 7 ones during the holidays

jscott

By the time FF gets ADMX/MSI support, we'll have migrated everyone to Chrome ENT.

Rob Moir

CC3 is a middleware layer thats used quite a bit in UK education

Shads0

Command & Conquer 3?

tombull89

@RobMoir Huurk. When I was on my apprenticeship I worked with XP and CC3, on an "upgrade" to CC4.

pfo

2:17 PM

middleware for doing what?

Dan

RM is a UK educational IT supplier, and they write a piece of software called "Community Connect". They have version 3, the latest is version 4. It's used for managing the network, basically to 'hide' AD from everything

pfo

i personally think that the term "middleware" is even more abused than "cloud" and "virtualization".

Dan

I'll stick my neck out and say 4 is okay in the right circumstances - think primary school with no IT staff

MarkM

@Dan What do you mean "Hide AD"

pfo

@Dan why would you want to do that?

Rob Moir

2:18 PM

managing the network. It's designed to "de-skill" a lot of management tasks to enable cheaper/lower end technicians to do more complex tasks than they'd normally be able to on a more normal network

MarkM

ohhhhh

So it's like a fucked up management/delegation interface?

tombull89

Instead (or as well as) using GPO's to manage the network and deploy packages CC3 makes it "easier" to define policies and whatnot.

Rob Moir

thats precisely what it is. Including the fucked up bit.

MarkM

That's a bummer

Rob Moir

Actually that's not fair. It's aimed at lower level schools

tombull89

2:19 PM

Luckily, my boss where I am now is 100% vanilla Windows.

Rob Moir

and for those kinds of places that have 100 machines tops and maybe 2 servers and no skilled staff to speak of, its good stuff

Dan

Yeah, it still has its place to be entirely fair

I tell you what, though, for the benefit of those who've never seen it - it is NOT something that you want to pick apart

MarkM

Our windows stuff is vanilla as well, though there are talks of extending the schema to support Apple WGM without Open Directory. The thought of importing an ldf from Apple into my AD scares the living shit out of me though.

Dan

Most people think of it as simply sitting on top of AD - but it's more like a cancer

Rob Moir

but for a place like we are here, where CC3 (or for that matter, their newer version, CC4) wasn't really designed to scale to and which does have skilled admins working for it which have knocked holes in all their config in order to make it work for a network this size, its a horrible mess

Shads0

2:21 PM

@MarkM Could be worse, could be like my High School and go all Mac :)

Dan

I've seen a few schools go 100% Mac

pfo

@MarkM luckily you could try it on a separate machine - but the schema is officially not defined and can change any time!

tombull89

@MarkM We've got an xServe to provide AD linkin for our Macs. Not that they work, though. Yet.

Rob Moir

all mac would be better than CC3 or CC4 for a lot of places

Dan

And by seen, I mean, I'm normally installing a Windows Citrix box so that they can run the stuff they need!

Rob Moir

2:21 PM

like dan says, that kind of thing does have its place

MarkM

@tombull89 We do now, but we have no plan for when it gets decomissioned since, you know, Apple DOESNT HAVE A FUCKING SERVER LINEUP

pfo

@MarkM the light approach would be to use something like puppet and distributed the managed preference files that WGM can generate to your clients.

MarkM

@pfo Yeah, that's certainly worth a look. It's been brought up but then everyone looks to me to implement it

tombull89

@MarkM sure you do, you can buy a load of mac minis or a overkill Powerma-oh, wait.

Rob Moir

we have about 80 mac clients plus a couple of servers and i'm trying to pull that back given that apple have stopped selling real servers. Like the ones we need.

Dan

2:23 PM

@tombull89 Ask any veteren RMer about the Leeds CC4 rollout if you want a giggle

MarkM

I'm already drowning in home rolled solutions since money is tight

Rob Moir

bwahahahahahahaha

tombull89

Seriously WHY would you use a Mac Mini as a server? stabby stab

Rob Moir

haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa‌aaaaaaahahaha

MarkM

I know for (almost) a fact that OS X 10.7 Server can run unmodified on vSphere 5 with the right magic.

pfo

2:24 PM

@MarkM there's actually a book that describes that approach in quite detail - Enterprise Mac Managed Preferences by Marczak et al.

Rob Moir

or about a certain college in leicester that I don't want to name as this chat is logged, whose network manager all but started crying while telling me about their CC4 rollout

MarkM

I just need to get Chop to break his NDA and we'll be good.

@pfo Awesome

pfo

@MarkM but you still need a Mac Pro or Xserve to run Lion ontop vSphere

MarkM

Thanks for the heads up, I'll give it a look

Dan

@RobMoir It was a bad year

MarkM

2:25 PM

@pfo From what I understand, Apple isn't doing that in their Maiden DC

Rob Moir

@Dan wasn't that for the BSF managed solution? Leeds I mean

Dan

@RobMoir I wouldn't possibly know, Rob...

tombull89

@RobMoir I think I heard about that...maybe? It all went so epically kablastafucked that they didn't have IT systems for a year?

pfo

@MarkM i would love to hear from chopper what Apple backend really looks like, but he is under NDA afair.

MarkM

yeah

tombull89

2:26 PM

(just say the name of the place, and then delete the message?)

MarkM

he gave a couple winks about some stuff around the time of icloud

Rob Moir

edugeek has a lot of horror stories. I've seen a few horrors close up

Dan

@tombull89 TBH, when it comes to the initial CC4 rollout, it could be anywhere

pfo

@MarkM do they run OS X at all :P ?

MarkM

@pfo For some front end stuff it sounded like

The rest was some commercial Unix that he wouldn't disclose

I'd imagine HP-UX given his close ties to HP and the fact that he consulted on it

pfo

2:27 PM

wth?

Rob Moir

we had one of the first CC3 roll outs @dan - we also have a multi-domain forest. RM stopped supporting those, for a while at least, after rolling CC3 out here with us.

Chopper3

@Dan I know RM - from YEARS back but I know them

pfo

HP-UX nowadays?!?! :P

MarkM

Just a guess

Could jsut as well be solaris

pfo

Solaris nowadays??!!? :P

MarkM

2:27 PM

haha

We have a small solaris installation

7ish servers

Rob Moir

we got a quote for moving to CC4 even though I had already decided not to. About 4 times what I felt we could do a normal rollout for, and the sales engineer pretty much did their best to talk us out of it anyway

Chopper3

@pfo it's not actually an NDA as such as they have time limits, this is more of a 'never talk about' thing sorry - all I wil say is there's nothing in there that'd surprise anyone here

Bart De Vos

Good thing @Kenny isn't here

he would rage

Rob Moir

which wasn't a difficult thing for him to do on my part. I needed little persuasion to ditch CC4

Bart De Vos

I think he manages some solaris servers everyday

kills his inner child

MarkM

2:29 PM

@Chopper3 We need to transplant your brain into a different body that doesn't hold secrets so well

pfo

managing solaris makes you dead inside, that is true...

Bart De Vos

fun fact from yesterday

Rob Moir

Solaris is the OS/2 of the unix world...

Bart De Vos

he ran hostname -s

hoping to get the short hostname...

Nope...

He changed the hostname to '-s'

MarkM

hahahahahahah

Rob Moir

2:30 PM

hehehe

Chopper3

I do tell you about lots of stuff, i.e. when I know other big customers of company X have got test/trial kit at the same time as me - then I don't mind dropping details

Rob Moir

god i love solaris. The bit where other people use it and I get to hear about it afterwards, I mean.

pfo

it was good in the 90s, but that was 20 years ago ...

Rob Moir

some stuff you just can't talk about

Dan

Guys - can I ask a question of you all?

pfo

2:32 PM

shoot

MarkM

GUN! RUN!

Bart De Vos

I'm about to leave for home, so make it quick

growse

I'm pre-emptively going with an answer of: "It's not possible"

Actually I'll hedge that with the answer: "7.2"

MarkM

Purple

Chris S

@growse Surely you mean 42

pfo

2:33 PM

i'd say "it depends".

Rob Moir

i'd just ask if I were you dan.

Dan

Bring Your Own PC
Consumerisation of IT

Whatever you want to call it.....Is it it just me that hates the idea?

growse

@ChrisS 42 isn't as fun as 7.2 though :)

Dan

(It took so long due to a phone call)

growse

We're going throught this whole thing in my company

Dan

2:34 PM

I hate the idea of having to deal with people bring in or purchasing their own equipment

Chris S

@Dan F- No. I hate the idea.

growse

It's limited to mobiles at the moment though

MarkM

@Dan Laptops/PCs - fuck that. Phones/Tablets - fair game

growse

Surely the attitude should be "bring your own, fine. Don't expect support." ?

Bart De Vos

@MarkM WHat he said

tombull89

2:35 PM

@Dan This is like staff/students brining in their own laptops/iDevice and wanting to use it on the network?

my answer: lol, no.

Dan

Thank god - it's such a huge buzzphrase at the minute

Chris S

@Dan This is my network (where "my" means "owned by the business"). Thou shalt not connect thyn unmanaged device!

Bart De Vos

We don't offer phones anymore to lower then management-level

Rob Moir

No, I hate it too. I don't mind students bring their own laptops in to work in our library but I couldn't imagine liking the idea of it being formally used as part of anyone's business

Bart De Vos

So, they can bring their own

Dan

2:36 PM

@tombull89 It is, but the idea is for the company to support and encourage it. The theory is you provide a virtual desktop and let them install the client and connect

Bart De Vos

and connect to exchange an what not, but don't expect support if it doesn't work

growse

There's not a problem with connecting anything to my network, as long as the business understands the risks and funds the implementation of technical controls

tombull89

@Dan Ah that's not as bad

Dan

I can see the idea

But I just think it'll become a nightmare as time goes on

MarkM

We have about 200 phones that are university supports. Anyone else wanting email that's not important enough to get a blackberry can buy a phone that does activesync, opt into us being able to wipe their phone remotely, and use without support

pfo

2:37 PM

i'd be glad if users here would drag in their own multi-million storage arrays and various nexus switches and some DL380s ;)

but best effort support only of course :P

Chris S

If they want me to make it work (and guarantee it works) it's going to be my device, controlled/managed by me, and I get the final say in basically every way. That may sound Machiavellian, but I'm easy going and very reasonable.

MarkM

@pfo You don't really mean that. "What do you mean you just 'tossed' it in the back of your truck and drove it over here?"

Dan

Well, this has made me feel better

pfo

how dumb of me, yes - you right.

growse

@ChrisS I agree in theory, but a lot of IT support shops are stepping back from the device level and just making sure the service works

Dan

2:38 PM

It's just mentioned everywhere at the minute

MarkM

@Dan Because everyone on the planet is pushing their MDM solution

they can all suck it

Rob Moir

i like the idea of providing a VDI infrastructure and remote connectivity so people can work on their own devices, whether at home or elsewhere. I just can't imagine being able to provide support for their home devices or buy less computers because of it

Chris S

@growse We've tip toed in that direction and got burnt by device inconsistencies. Perhaps it's different for me where every minute a device isn't working gets put on someone's time sheet and 5 managers sign-off that their device was the reason for the lack of productivity...

Rob Moir

I wonder how much of the hype is down to freshly minted graduate journalists in IT mags who hate being told they can't install their own spyware on their work PC. The same place those yearly rants about how draconian network admins are bad for the workplace comes from

growse

@ChrisS absolutely, it depends on the environment

Dan

2:40 PM

@RobMoir Absolutely - I love VDI, I'd just rather be in charge of the things connecting to it on the business floor. If you want to connect from home, great - but if it doesn't work I'm sending you to Google

Rob Moir

yes

Chris S

@RobMoir We do allow people to connect form their home computers to our VDI. But only after they've explicitly agreed that it's not guaranteed to work under any circumstances and they should have no expectation of it working...

growse

If the business says "We want anyone to be able to use any phone to connect to the Exchange servers, from anywhere in the world", that should be subject to a bunch of smart people sayiing "Here's your risks, and here's how much it's going to cost"

Rob Moir

@ChrisS yeah and we provide a RD Gateway for home working under much the same conditions

growse

If someone's phone doesn't work, isn't supported because it's their own device, and the service is up, that's their own problem

Rob Moir

2:43 PM

@growse that's how i've learnt to manage my managers. I never say "no" now, unless the question is about tech that could only have come from watching the sci fi channel, just a variation of "We can do whatever you want, here's the costs and here's the risks of your idea. Let me know what you think"

growse

@RobMoir If only more places thought like that.

MarkM

A little OT, but can people with enough rep to vote-close peek over here and sort by 4x close and 3x close and try and clean up some of the old crap?

growse

I've seen too many IT departments that think they own the business

Rob Moir

the IT tail should never wag the business dog

Dan

@growse I must admit, ironically, this is another pet hate

IT is there to enable the business to carry out its role, whatever that may be and we should do everything we can to improve that

growse

2:44 PM

My favourite implementation was a while back where a group basically wanted to break the SOX law. I said "you can absolutely do that, but our CEO will probably go to prison". They didn't do it.

pauska

our aruba AP's are funny when they are installed for the first time.. they reboot like 7 times. Each one is similar to "rebooting after installing certificate", "rebooting after being provisioned" etc

You'd think that a windows 2000 admin created these boxes.. funny enough - they run linux

Chris S

interesting

I suppose it's a good way to ensure the changes will be stable across reboots.

pauska

probably.. but it's still a bit old fashion. You don't have to reboot an ESXi host after installing it to make an example :)

btw regarding bring your own PC: Many of the offices in the corp I work in are franchise, so they have to buy their own pc's and maintan them.. we only provide RDS to them. It works pretty good, allthough we do get the occasional question if we can fix their computer (which we won't).

Chris S

True, and I agree with what you're saying... Sounds a bit lazy to me, but I don't make hardware either.

Rob Moir

actually the one area we don't do is breaking the law. We won't do it or support anyone else doing it.

pauska

2:52 PM

I'm pretty confident that most of us are supporting it in a few years.. people want to bring their penis extension (apple macbook) to work cause its cool and all that.. as long as those clients stay on a highly locked and secure network with only RDP/VDI access internally then its fine by me

Scott Pack

@RobMoir Too high a liability for doing things like that. I'm still young. I want to be able to get a respectable job later.

Chris S

Complete subject change. Who owns reusable grocery/shopping bags, and uses them at least once a week?

pauska

Just have a few thin clients here and there so that they can get work done when their $300 acer laptop dies

Scott Pack

@ChrisS I have gobs of them and use them frequently.

pauska

@ChrisS I have like 8 of those blue ikea bags.. I use them when I wash clothes

Scott Pack

2:53 PM

Typically at least twice. Once at the farmer's market and then at the grocery store.

pauska

they are fucking great.. you could carry a person in them without it breaking

Chris S

@pauska You mean a dead body?

Scott Pack

@pauska Those ikea things are amazing. I've got two, but don't use them for shopping.

All of mine are various qualities of canvas.

Chris S

That's the standard way to measure the size of a car's trunk here... how many dead bodies it'll fit.

I don't have any of the ikea bags, my sisters have some, for the same reason, laundry. I've got a bunch of the canvas bags that I use all the time.

Scott Pack

@ChrisS Why do you ask about bags?

Shads0

2:55 PM

I assume XKCD

pauska

@ScottPack Yeah they are a bit too large for shopping, unless you're going to buy something big

Chris S

MarkM

@ChrisS I have half a dozen fabric shopping bags

We hang them on a hook by the door so that we don't forget them on our way out

Rob Moir

I use recyclable bags when I remember to - which is all the time when walking to the shop 300 yards away and less so when driving to to grocery shop

MarkM

We tried keeping them in a closet for a while and ended up never remembering them

Scott Pack

2:57 PM

My wife's business had some printed up for marketing. Now that they've merged with another company...well...we're pretty well stocked in bags.

Chris S

I know a lot of people who own them and never use them.... Makes me sad.

MarkM

Webex with VMware about View now (how fitting). Back in a bit

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