Root Access

@HassanAlthaf Anyway. No, compilers are not "fed with BNF". Compilers usually incorporate the output of a parser generator, of which there are many, outputting many different types of parsers. The input to the parser generator might be BNF, or EBNF, or some other metalanguage.

Burgi

Bob

But even that only makes up a rather small portion of a modern compiler.

Burgi

this was at the turn of the century btw

Journeyman Geek

3:04 PM

@Burgi I don't think schools had computers till I got to roughly @HassanAlthaf's age for me

Hell we used OHPs for much of it

Bob

@HassanAlthaf Of course, the bigger/more-complex compilers now are largely handwritten or evolved over a very long time. Parser generators give you a bit of a starting point.

@HassanAlthaf Oh, almost forgot. BNF describes a context-free grammar. Many programming languages (including C) are not context-free.

bwDraco

I started out with C++ in college. Not the best language by a long shot but still widely used for desktop applications and backend programming.

Hassan Althaf

@JourneymanGeek Wait were you 16 when your school got computers?

@Bob Wait, is BNF actual code?

Bob

@HassanAlthaf Define "code".

Journeyman Geek

@HassanAlthaf around there, yeah

Bob

3:09 PM

BNF describes a grammar, so might be considered "source code" for a parser generator (and for legal purposes, e.g. for GPL).

Journeyman Geek

I mean there were probably labs, but we never used them in class

Hassan Althaf

@Bob In my questions context, can it be translated into some form that the compilers use to define the syntax?

@JourneymanGeek I see. I feel lucky to have access to a computer since I was 3.

Thanks to the guy who delivered the PC.

Burgi

#beeroclock

Journeyman Geek

I had an XT when I was 5

Burgi

Journeyman Geek

3:11 PM

Built my first PC when I was 13

Bob

@HassanAlthaf Technically, BNF describes a syntax that can be translated into, say, a parser for that syntax. A compiler can then use that parser.

Hassan Althaf

Oh.

But is it used still?

Burgi

a freshly squeezed elvis :)

Bob

@HassanAlthaf Eh... sometimes.

Hassan Althaf

I see.

Bob

3:14 PM

Apparently the C11 standard still includes a BNF grammar in an appendix.

Hassan Althaf

Oh

Whats the latest standard for C?

And should I learn C in 2016 if I want to get into developing enterprise solutions

Bob

But it's not complete - many (most?) programming languages are not context-free and therefore their syntax cannot be completely described by BNF.

@HassanAlthaf Eh... "enterprise solutions" is such a vague term.

IMO? Don't learn a specific language in hopes for a job.

Hassan Althaf

Stuff like ERP

I try to learn as many

That I will find useful

Bob

Java is still a very popular, probably the most popular, "enterprisey" language these days.

Journeyman Geek

lol

Bob

3:16 PM

C# is also very popular.

Hassan Althaf

Apparently C# is. Also, paying more.

Journeyman Geek

A lot of mission critical stuff at work... runs on an old IBM mainframe ;p

Bob

C and C++ are best avoided. Unless you intend to do something low-level.

Hassan Althaf

What would you develop using C or C++ for an app like ERP

I do not get their application

Bob

@HassanAlthaf Of common open-source ones, most are Java. Some Python.

Journeyman Geek

3:18 PM

you can develop anything in anything.

Bob

@JourneymanGeek eh.......................................................... if only

Hassan Althaf

@JourneymanGeek Whats the main usage of C or c++

Journeyman Geek

@Bob in theory you could write an OS in brainf***. Assuming you weren't institutionalised half way

Bob

C is a fairly thin abstraction over assembly, and great for embedded processors, hardware drivers, etc. C++ is rather more complex and very versatile - can be used for just about anything, but also great at shooting yourself in the foot.

Journeyman Geek

@HassanAlthaf a good massive chunk of OSes are C or C++ based

Bob

3:20 PM

Of course, nothing technical stopping you from developing a desktop app in C.

meh.

Burgi

anyone remember BeOS?

Journeyman Geek

@Burgi I had a running install at one point

Hassan Althaf

I see. I thought C or c++ is used to develop something that cannot be done in high lwvel languages. I cannot think of what it could be

Bob

Most native Windows programs are VC++

Journeyman Geek

@HassanAlthaf Its kinda like...

Bob

3:21 PM

Most native Linux programs are still C or C++

Burgi

me too

Journeyman Geek

In the hands of a skilled programmer, you can do lots of crazy, awesome stuff in C or C++

Hassan Althaf

Oh. Just cannot imagien what

Journeyman Geek

hmm

Lets see

Your OS? C and C++

CausingUnderflowsEverywhere

I am torn, I AM SILLY!

Bob

3:22 PM

@JourneymanGeek Problem there is "OS" is also rather vague :P

Linux kernel, pure C.

Journeyman Geek

quite a lot of desktop apps are also written in it. Your browser might be to a large extent

Bob

Windows kernel, dunno, but probably a mix. Maybe pure C.

Journeyman Geek

@Bob kernel pure C, userland, C and C++ ...

CausingUnderflowsEverywhere

why am I trying to do micro optimizations to something that rarely gets called LOL! thats what happens when you're up at night figuring it out

Burgi

i thought Firefox was written in Rust

Bob

3:23 PM

GNU/Linux userland is a massive amalgamation of C, C++, Python, Perl, Tcl, Bash...

CausingUnderflowsEverywhere

define bash

Bob

Windows userland (Win8/Win10) is mostly VC++ and C# (.NET). Oh, and VBScript. Ever used slmgr?

Burgi

@CausingUnderflowsEverywhere its the shell that most linux distros run

DavidPostill

@JourneymanGeek 3 spam answers so far from superuser.com/u/649741

CausingUnderflowsEverywhere

why did cat leave :( cat doesn't like me :(

Bob

3:25 PM

@JourneymanGeek Browser is another one of those things that incorporates a large number of components.

CausingUnderflowsEverywhere

Keeping a low profile.

This user hasn't posted... yet.

Bob

Rendering engines are currently mostly C++.

Same with JS engines.

But the UI? In Firefox that's partially XUL and partially JS.

Burgi

i thought they had retired XUL

Bob

@Burgi Phasing it out but afaik the browser itself is still in XUL

Journeyman Geek

"to a large extent"

Bob

3:26 PM

I think they were primarily phasing it out of addons, not the browser itself

Journeyman Geek

I qualified my statement!

@CausingUnderflowsEverywhere all his posts were flagged to /dev/null

CausingUnderflowsEverywhere

oh Pixels, @DavidPostill I remember looking at the school monitors and they had a rainbow effect going on they probably used
XO-1 display (left)

oh the famous null file

Burgi

CausingUnderflowsEverywhere

I redirect my output to null

Guitar Shoe Dave

@Burgi: thanks thats interesting

CausingUnderflowsEverywhere

3:29 PM

so now I must think of the best way to generate a random number thta does not repeat in java using 2.1 billion possibilities

imagine having a list with 2.1billion 32 bit integers

that's...

Journeyman Geek

if it does not repeat ever, it is not truely random

CausingUnderflowsEverywhere

4 bytes times 2.1billion is it scary?

8 billion is it just me or is that 8GB

I'd be introducing an 8 GB object into a 200mb jvm

Guitar Shoe Dave

not much of a java guy. I have no input on entropy related java questions :/

CausingUnderflowsEverywhere

so in order to remedy this 8GB I need to

oh we can pretend its c++ if you want

Guitar Shoe Dave

haha

CausingUnderflowsEverywhere

3:32 PM

I need to make it remember up to like you know 20 numbers, and they cannot repeat within the 20.

Guitar Shoe Dave

@allquicatic probably would be the best resource for your question.

DavidPostill

@HassanAlthaf There's nothing wrong with Pascal, apart from the fact nobody uses it any more ...

CausingUnderflowsEverywhere

basically, I just need to securely identify clients. I'll be like he you you're this random number

and then later one when I have no clue who's sending me info they will send me the random number and Im like hey you're this guy! thanks for coming through

DavidPostill

@Burgi You're lucky. We didn't have computers in school. One a week we went in a minibus to some other school that had one teletype to a time share system that 25 pupils had to share ...

@Burgi You drink beer at work? Or are you leaving early?

@Bob You can shoot yourself in the foot in almost any programming language :)

@CausingUnderflowsEverywhere That's because all of his spam has been deleted. The user hasn't been nuked so he can post more later ...

CausingUnderflowsEverywhere

yup I could shoot myself in the foot by using numerous declarations instead of pointing to a single declaration of the same thing, and I can redesign the entire system using threads in a way that everything is hard coded then I need to change something under all of that hard code and it's impossible without re programming the entire thing unless I use reflection and creatively modify that part during runtime

you haven't formatted his hard drive? cool I cant wait to see more

Burgi

3:47 PM

@DavidPostill we have beer o'clock on fridays

4-5

then we bugger off early

allquicatic

hello

CausingUnderflowsEverywhere

with Ada.Text_IO; use Ada.Text_IO;
procedure Hello is
begin
Put_Line ("Hello, world!");
end Hello;

DavidPostill

@allquicatic world

Burgi

i'm now just skiving until 5

then i'm going to the pub

and then i'm going to fail to chat up any girls

DavidPostill

@Burgi One place I worked Friday afternoon was beer and pool - organised by the little boss. Big boss was always away on Fridays. I got quite good at pool :)

Burgi

3:51 PM

heh

we are going to have a conker tournament in a couple of weeks

CausingUnderflowsEverywhere

match the programming language without using find tools.

You shoot yourself in the foot and then brag for hours about how much more elegantly you did it than if you had been using C or (God forbid) Perl.

sky dibing?!

Omg! LOL

You can't remember the syntax for anything so you spend five hours reading man pages before giving up. You then shoot the computer and switch to C.

okay bye guys Im going to make that random number generate with a

while ( Enum(randomNum) == true ) {
new random
}
return random number

if I figure out how enums work and if I can even assign values to an enum if not Ill use lets see I can use a hashmap or somethinbg or a string or array or something there's probably contains methods

not sure why I typo that much, I must be jumping from thought to thought while writing the output stream

bwDraco

@CausingUnderflowsEverywhere Not too familiar with C/C++ enumeration types, but if I'm not mistaken, they basically let you assign names to numerical values.

en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/enum

DavidPostill

@CausingUnderflowsEverywhere I think you misunderstand what a Java Enum is ...

CausingUnderflowsEverywhere

I've used an enum with constant values before

thanks @bwDraco actually using java here

DavidPostill

4:06 PM

@CausingUnderflowsEverywhere Exactly. Are you going to define an Enum, for every possible random value?

djsmiley2k

still the chat is broked :'(

CausingUnderflowsEverywhere

nope that would have 2.1 billion entries, I'm going to use 20 and overwrite the oldest value recorded every new random number

that means I can use a buffer

how do I keep easy indexes in the buffer hmm, I wonder if checking the existance of a value in a hashmap or other similar type is faster than reading off 20 ints from a buffer

does it even matter what's faster? nah code readibility is good here

DavidPostill

@CausingUnderflowsEverywhere So that has nothing to do with Enums ... please try and think before you post :)

CausingUnderflowsEverywhere

ohhhhhhhhhhhh ho ho. not a possibility.

I can enumerate if my random number is one of the last 20 rand numbers drawn :)

bwDraco

You'd need some sort of associative array structure. In C++, there's the STL map class.

CausingUnderflowsEverywhere

4:12 PM

uhm :( I'm using java :( chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/32780519#32780519

DavidPostill

@CausingUnderflowsEverywhere Why don't you just look on Stack Overflow?

Instead of wasting our time?

CausingUnderflowsEverywhere

because

DavidPostill

31

Q: Generating Unique Random Numbers in Java

I'm trying to get random numbers between 0 and 100. But I want them to be unique, not repeated in a sequence. For example if I got 5 numbers, they should be 82,12,53,64,32 and not 82,12,53,12,32 I used this, but it generates same numbers in a sequence. Random rand = new Random(); selected = rand...

bwDraco

I know but I can only point you to concepts because I don't know Java.

CausingUnderflowsEverywhere

maybe I wasn't intending for your help maybe I just wanted company. sorry for my useless visit then

bwDraco

4:14 PM

4

Q: Does Java support associative arrays?

I'm wondering if arrays in Java could do something like this: int[] a = new int[10]; a["index0"] = 100; a["index1"] = 100; I know I've seen similar features in other languages, but I'm not really familiar with any specifics... Just that there are ways to associate values with string constants ...

java arrays

djsmiley2k

have an array of digits 1-100

pick digit at [$rand]

remove it from array

pick from array[99]

DavidPostill

1

Q: How to generate 6 different random numbers in java

I want to generate 6 different random numbers by using Math.random and store them into an array. How can I make sure that they are different? I know I need to use for-loop to check the array but how... This is the range. I only need numbers between 1 and 49. ( 1 + (int) (Math.random() * 49) )

java arrays math random

djsmiley2k

repeat

DavidPostill

Generate Unique Random Numbers Without Repeating In Java

jokerdino

4:40 PM

very random

DavidPostill

@jokerdino lol. The idea was to give him things to look at and think about. Teach a man to fish and all that ...

djsmiley2k

3

Q: Chat in Chrome on Windows suddenly doesn't scroll anymore

In the last 24-48 hours the chat in Chrome on Windows has stopped auto scrolling once it goes off the bottom of the screen. I tried all the usual fixes after suspecting my cats had hit some key combo breaking things, until a number of other people in Root Access confirmed they were seeing the sa...

bug chat

DavidPostill

Hmm. Testing ...

@djsmiley2k No repro on Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit, Chrome 53.0.2785.143 m

djsmiley2k

even happens in incognito mode with extensions disabled

DavidPostill

4:56 PM

@djsmiley2k Have you tried a complete reinstall of Chrome?

djsmiley2k

thats next :/

brb

not sure if thats worked, we shall see

nope :/

Potato Cat

@Burgi this is the first message at the top of my chat page on mobile... O_o

The dumber two Canadians are critiquing each others make up in preparation to meet some tattoo artist and a random person off tinder.

Oh joy.

djsmiley2k

5:12 PM

is the scrolling javascript controlleed?

DavidPostill

@djsmiley2k No idea

Rahul2001

Visit this link!

http://🍐🌊🍩🐱🍎🎣🍈🍵.🍕💩.ws/

djsmiley2k

oh lord

Rahul2001

lol

@djsmiley2k Yep

djsmiley2k

shoot me#

i vcannee scroll no moor

Rahul2001

5:21 PM

This is the code I think: var i={},a=e-$(window).scrollLeft(),o=t-$(window).scrollTop();

Or maybe this: i.css("top",$(window).scrollTop()+$(window).height()/20))

I don't know JS very well

@djsmiley2k view-source:cdn-chat.sstatic.net/chat/Js/master-chat.js?v=9f97de77735a

Potato Cat

@Rahul2001 not a valid link in my browser, thankfully

Rahul2001

Seriously though, this is a real URL: http://🍐🌊🍩🐱🍎🎣🍈🍵.🍕💩.ws/

@PotatoCat Which browser do you use?

Potato Cat

@Rahul2001 chrome on Android

Also you're a bit late for the party, that link has been going round for days

Rahul2001

@PotatoCat Ah, yeah, probably doesn't work on mobile

@PotatoCat I don't think so, considering that I just created it :P

Potato Cat

Well <pile of emojis>.pizza poop.ws has been going round for days.

Rahul2001

5:27 PM

lol, yeah

djsmiley2k

window.initAsteroids,Eggs.Current&&Eggs.Current.init&&Eggs.Current.init()

bwDraco

Aww......

yesterday, by Bob

23

Q: How do I debug an emoticon-based URL?

I came across this URL and need to convert this to puny code. As an experiment, I'll paste this URL here, but not sure if this will save. http://🐒🍵🍱🍋🎩🍣🍕🍊.🍕💩.ws/ How can I convert this URL to a standard DNS name so I can whois the IP space?

dns phishing url unicode

in The Loop, Jul 10 '15 at 15:59, by Sven

Turn any URL into a linkmoji - http://xn--vi8hiv.ws/⚽🐊😱🎺😸🍖⛳🐢 - http://www.xn--vi8hiv.ws/submit

Tweeted by semblance_er on July 10, 2015 at 3:48 PM

That's cute.

New emoji commands

Oct 2 at 3:18, 13 minutes total – 36 messages, 2 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked Oct 2 at 3:31 by bwDraco

linkmoji.parseapp.com

Potato Cat

6:15 PM

Arf

Well well well, that may be the first time Google ad tracking has actually done something good

Rahul2001

Uh... right

I could really do with relationships.SE right now

Potato Cat

Got an advert for a dedicated server company I hadn't heard of, who just happen to have exactly what I want and be cheaper than everywhere else I've looked

And they've even called it "PerfectServer"

Ben N

@Rahul2001 To Area 51!

Potato Cat

@Rahul2001 No you don't

Rahul2001

@BenN I really don't see a relationship advice site ever becoming a SE site

@PotatoCat Why so?

djsmiley2k

6:25 PM

@PotatoCat ovh no good?

Rahul2001

Hm... /r/relationships

Potato Cat

@Rahul2001 Because you kids are meant to figure it out by trial and error

Rahul2001

@PotatoCat Eh, fair enough

Potato Cat

Oct 3 at 18:14, by Potato Cat

WTF OVH

Ben N

Hmm, it looks like a Relationships.SE was tried

djsmiley2k

6:26 PM

@Rahul2001 yup every question closed as too localised :D

Rahul2001

@djsmiley2k or opinion-based...

Potato Cat

@Rahul2001 Once you get to an age where your relationships matter then maybe it's worth actually... doing stuff that isn't just "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks"

Ben N

I would look at why the site failed, but it's missing a data dump, huh

Rahul2001

@PotatoCat lol, okay

Potato Cat

> Guaranteed server delivery within 30 min

djsmiley2k

6:27 PM

@BenNno visitors

Potato Cat

Lol everything that's wrong with the regular providers these guys explicitly say they're the oposite

Ben N

@djsmiley2k That's probably it; there's only one user above 1K after 12 days

djsmiley2k

@PotatoCat did u ever explain this btw?

also if it souns too good to be true, someone is phishing.

Potato Cat

@djsmiley2k Click and scroll down

Oct 3 at 18:34, by Potato Cat

@allquicatic While everyone else has Xeon v4 servers and are introducing v5's right now, OVH only have Xeon v3's and are pushing "new" Xeon v2 boxes...

Oct 3 at 19:09, by Potato Cat

And the pricing on the E5's is... nonsensical... 4c #79, 6c #111, 16c $129... wtf?

Oct 3 at 19:13, by Potato Cat

All I want is a Broadwell-E 6-core with 32+GB of RAM that doesn't cost triple that of a Skylake 4-core with 64GB of RAM

Oct 3 at 19:15, by Potato Cat

Closest thing OVH has? 64GB 6-core v2 at double the price of a 128GB 6-core v3 at Hetzner.

Oct 3 at 19:22, by Potato Cat

Heck, Online sells a proper Dell Poweredge with dual 6-core v3's and 128GB DDR4 at the price of OVH's 6-core v2 with 64GB DDR3.

djsmiley2k

i think ovh just buy in whats cheap that week

Potato Cat

6:31 PM

And they have a US datacentre too wink @allquicatic wink

@allquicatic Close enough, why sorry?

@djsmiley2k Well I wish they'd get on with buying some more this week, since their current shit is 3 years out of date

That Brazilian Guy

7:10 PM

@PotatoCat This at the place you're staying?

bwDraco

9:27 PM

0

Q: Will 14.5 v @ 2.0 Amps harm my MacBook 12

I'd like to charge my MacBook 12 using my PowerBank. I have a PowerBank with adjustable voltage control it has USB output too. Though when I use USB output it draws only 0.5A @ 4.75V on average and reports that the "battery is not charging". I've also noticed that my Apple 29W USB-C PowerAdapter ...

laptop usb power-supply macbook battery

USB Type-C, but just why does Apple insist on using a nonstandard voltage?!

...probably an artifact of the old MagSafe charging system, which used 14.5V.

bwDraco

10:25 PM

tomshardware.com/news/…

Interesting change. No more svchost grouping on machines with more RAM. That would increase performance and reliability, and make individual services easier to manage (e.g. no more hunting for a particular service causing high resource usage by svchost), but doing this will significantly increase memory usage.

With the old approach, if one service in a given instance of the service host crashes, all services in that instance crash. This change limits the damage caused by a service crash.

blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2016/10/07/…

Well, I'm just not willing to join the Insider Program just yet...

Hennes

11:40 PM

MInd boggles. Chinese ?

Ben N

That reminds me of this chart:

(source, text probably NSFW)

New emoji commands

Transcript for