Root Access

allquixotic

3:00 AM

@JourneymanGeek mandatory SSL anyway and they won't have any idea it's IRC

Bob

@JourneymanGeek ...why?

Journeyman Geek

Beats me

Bob

brb in X hours

allquixotic

i wouldn't mind a "special" TLD that disallows all HTTP(S) traffic... I mean... you could practically claim a domain name for free, because NO ONE would want them

Journeyman Geek

lol

Darth Android

3:01 AM

Ugh, I hate registrars that return NXDOMAIN for domains that are registered

Journeyman Geek

.nsa?

Braiam

HA!

allquixotic

i wonder if TLDs can be more than 3 letters

i know about .co.uk, etc, but what about .ireallydontknowwhythistldissogoddamnfuckinglong

Braiam

.com.do... is my country "TLD"

Bob

@allquixotic Not ccTLDs by convention, I think.

I mean, the DNS system probably wouldn't care.

allquixotic

3:04 AM

that TLD would really suck for Android package names

ireallydontknowwhythistldissogoddamnfuckinglong.jesuschristijustwantowriteanapp.‌foo

Bob

sigh

Ariane

Hey, I have a question. Just popped up into my mind. .something.ca domains "recently" stopped being distributed, because apparently that kind of thing is not standard, but those that were there before remain. So the Quebec government's website, gouv.qc.ca, is there. But if I look at that, gouv is a subdomain, qc is the domain and ca is the extension. Yet why does there exist no "http://qc.ca" website?

Braiam

apparently I am wrong... again

Bob

fancy designs like this might look nice, but I honestly don't think they're very practical

allquixotic

@Ariane interesting

Bob

3:07 AM

@Ariane Because no one bothered to set an A record on qc.ca. pointing to a webserver hosting a HTTP server on port 80.

(or a CNAME or something)

Also, "extension" isn't really a technical term in this context

allquixotic

@Bob I got my GateOne working well on my server, everything going well EXCEPT waiting for my SSL cert

Ariane

@Bob But qc.ca DOES exist, right? Like, someone owns it, and it COULD be a website? I mean, two-step domain extensions don't actually exist, right?

Bob

and everything is a subdomain of something else, except the root domain forgotwhatit'scalled

allquixotic

►

Bob

@allquixotic is it just a standard HTTPS cert?

I think I already have one from StartSSL :P

Darth Android

3:08 AM

@Ariane It depends on the registrar

Bob

@Ariane I don't know what "domain extensions" is supposed ot mean

any domain could point to any IP

Ariane

@Bob .com, .ca, .ca, .name, .travel, .aero........

Darth Android

Registrars typically do second-level (*.tld) and third-level (*.sld.tld) registrations, depeneding on what they want

Bob

a FQDN like com. could point to some IP hosting a webserver

Darth Android

I think the .to actually pointed to a personal webserver at one point

Ariane

3:09 AM

So basically there's indeed something at qc.ca, owned by whoever, and there, there's a server that redirects all the subdomains to the right websites?

Is that it?

Bob

A FQDN has a dot at the end to signify the root zone

Darth Android

@Ariane Yeah.

Bob

qc.ca actually could be any numebr of domains

Ariane

I get some contradictory answers, some of which I don't really understand.x.x

Bob

qc.ca. is a very specific domain

the extra dot at the end if very important if you want to be precise

!!wiki FQDN

ChatBot John Cavil

3:11 AM

Fully qualified domain name

A fully qualified domain name (FQDN), sometimes also referred as an absolute domain name, is a domain name that specifies its exact location in the tree hierarchy of the Domain Name System (DNS). It specifies all domain levels, including the top-level domain and the root zone. A fully qualified domain name is distinguished by its lack of ambiguity: it can only be interpreted one way. FQDNs first arose out of the need for uniformity as the Internet was quickly growing in size in the late 1980s. For example, given a device with a local hostname myhost and a parent domain name example.com, t...

Darth Android

@Ariane Bob is just being technically correct.

When you have third-level domain registrations

such as mydomain.co.uk

That's just the Uk registrar reserving the co.uk domain, and also doing registrations for the subdomains of it.

Bob

because a DNS server could append any domain to the end of a request - e.g. qc.ca.somedomain.com.

Ariane

Oh okay. And "in practice" we call those domains but actually they're subdomains. Good, I get it.

Bob

but if you specify a single dot at the end, that's saying look in the root zone only

Darth Android

Yeah. In practice, anything to the left of a . is a subdomain to what is to the right of the .

Bob

3:13 AM

!!tell Ariane wiki DNS root zone

Darth Android

Which is what Bob was getting at earlier. There is a domain root, ., and technically, even the "top level domains" (TLDs) are subdomains of that

ChatBot John Cavil

@Ariane en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNS_root_zone

Darth Android

ICANN hosts a DNS server that says, for example, the com. domain is managed by Verisign

Ariane

But there's no dot at the end of ".com", is there?

Darth Android

Verisign, in turn, manages the rigistrations for *.com. domains, such as superuser.com.

@Ariane Usually, it's implied

When you type in superuser.com, you're really going to superuser.com.

Ariane

3:15 AM

Oh.

Bob

@DarthAndroid Unless your DNS server has its own search zones set

which is quite common in company networks

Ariane

Heeeeeey. So domains are managed by companies? I'd have thought they'd be neutral non-government organisms or something.

Bob

@Ariane "organisms"

:P

(organisations?)

Darth Android

@Ariane Nope, every domain is managed by a registrar

sometimes, those are NGOs

the major ones are all handled by large companies though

Bob

There are certain rules for registrars that ICANN sets out

Ariane

3:17 AM

@Bob Organism can't mean organisation in English?

Darth Android

I think Verisign does .com, GoDaddy does .net

Bob

most ccTLDs 'belong' to specific countries, who can do whatever (following ICANN rules)

Ariane

@DarthAndroid That's..... fucked-up. I don't like something so basic to be managed by a private corporation.

Darth Android

( ccTLDs being "country-code" TLDs, such as .uk, .us, .au, .de, .ru, etc.)

Bob

@Ariane again, there are basic rules they have to follow

Darth Android

3:18 AM

@Ariane Well, as long as they play within the rules set out by ICANN, it's not a problem

Bob

I think the US or someone imposes even tougher rules on the .com/.org/.net domains

Darth Android

and if they broke the rules, I imagine ICANN would revoke that privilege from them

Bob

basically, we have thigns called authoritative nameservers

those are the ones that translate a domain name to an IP address

Darth Android

So, it's more like "Hey verisign, manage this for me, the way I want. If you're not cool with that, that's fine, I'll find someone else."

Bob

when you make a request, say to chat.stackexchange.com., you first look up the root nameserver

Braiam

3:19 AM

the 13 domains of doom >:D

Bob

they'll tell you (with a NS record) to go to the com. nameserver

who will tell you to go to a stackexchange.com. nameserver (which might be something like ns1.godaddy.com, if they don't host it themselves)

Ariane

I still don't like it. Just theoretically, I think nothing "important" should be private.

Bob

NS records are basically saying "I can tell you who manages that subdomain, but I don't know the end result"

Braiam

is more like, they were in the wide open but nobody bothered to search

Darth Android

@Ariane Sorry, anything important in the US is managed/owned by some corporation. Our congressmen... our judges... /cynical

Ariane

3:21 AM

Yeah. I don't like much about how the US work.

Darth Android

If you don't like domains being managed by a registrar, then you should register a *.bit domain

Ariane

I don't like the principle, but not enough to go out of my way for such a relatively minor thing.

Journeyman Geek

.bit?

Ariane

3:38 AM

.bit

.bit is a domain that was created outside of the most commonly used domain name system of the Internet and is not sanctioned by ICANN. The .bit domain is served via the Namecoin infrastructure, which acts as an alternative, decentralized domain name system. The current number of .bit domains is 104489. Use Use of the .bit domain requires a copy of the Namecoin blockchain, a supporting public DNS server, or a proxy; because .bit domains are not currently awarded. For a full list of methods see the [http://dot-bit.org/How_To_Browse_Bit_Domains dot bit] website. See also * Namecoin * Bitcoi...

Bob

where'd everyone go

Ariane

To bed?

Bob

@Ariane it's only 3pm here, so that sounds odd to me :P

Ariane

Well here it's 23 so I' mgetting rather sleepy.

So I'm gonna go get in the shower now.

allquixotic

4:08 AM

@Bob just watching TotalBiscuit's hearthstone vid

hehehe

i turned on my space heater that is very similar to this but a different color: walmart.com/ip/…

my kitty is laying right in front of it, i think she loves the warmth

i told her "Nikki likes waaaarm!" and she meowed back at me like "yeah!"

trying not to burn through my HD7970 @JourneymanGeek otherwise I'd bitcoin

just seems a tragic waste of compute power to burn it down by running something like that that isn't providing me any real gain

running it at 100% utilization for hours can't be good for card longevity

why burn down my GPU when i can perhaps more efficiently convert electricity into heat using a $50 space heater, which, when the element burns out in that, i buy a new one for the same low price

Bob

@all are there dedi servers with graphics cards, and would they be better suited for yoru simulator?

granted, it would probably cost an arm and a leg

allquixotic

@Bob there are dedi servers with graphics cards. they exist. they are very expensive, unless you get a modern desktop GPU with an iGPU, which isn't nearly as fast as a dedicated compute card

a GPU with proper OpenCL drivers for Linux would be able to significantly accelerate the Bullet physics in OpenSimulator, IF the software support for doing that were in place, but AFAIK it's not; they're working on integrating the GPU acceleration support that's in Bullet itself, into OpenSimulator

offloading physics to the GPU would bring CPU usage down significantly, but there's still the issue of scripts, which are too branchy to be a suitable workload for OpenCL

Ariane

@allquixotic Is your heating bad?

allquixotic

4:23 AM

@Ariane central heating is off because I live with people who are temperature-challenged -- when it's hot outside, they want the air conditioning off, and when it's cold outside, they want the heat off... I don't pretend to understand

they will say "I'm hot" in the winter when it's below freezing outside

Ariane

Odd.

allquixotic

so I can't turn the heat on lest they whine even worse

Ariane

But well I'm not so normal myself. I'm usually cold below 25.

allquixotic

but I have a fairly normal sense of hot and cold in that I'm generally cold in winter and generally hot in summer

I'm especially cold in a house that hasn't had its central heating on for 10+ hours of consecutive outside temperatures hovering around freezing

Ariane

Lol. That's beyond normal.

allquixotic

4:25 AM

the house is significantly warmer than outside, because of things like good insulation, the heat having been on in the morning, and stovetop and oven usage this evening for dinner

but it's nowhere near as warm as I'd like if the heat were on, and now it's getting late and the heat of dinner is mostly dissipated

so I have a small space heater sucking down watts to heat my room specifically

Ariane

Yup, weird people.

My apartment is cold simply because the insulation is beyond bad.

allquixotic

i think my parents get hot when they eat hot dinner while being in the hot kitchen due to the stove and oven, and they keep that perception of being hot for the whole evening, and don't turn on the heat

Ariane

So I turn my heating on, but then it's too hot from about 1m20 of altitude and too cold below.

allquixotic

usually when i wake up if i don't leave my space heater on, I'm freezing cold, and so are my parents, so they turn the heat on in the morning when they wake up

Ariane

Lol, I wish I could be warm just out of memory.

allquixotic

4:28 AM

but our central heating takes a long time to heat the house, so i end up being freezing cold when i have to take off my clothes to take a shower

that's pretty uncomfortable, moreso than just having my feet and arms cold when i'm dressed

and my cat is usually not one to cling to me very much, but tonight she's spending a LOT of time just laying happily in front of my space heater... ha ha ha... she must be cold too

Ariane

Oooh, I know the feeling. In my previous apartment, which was in the basement, my bathroom, a small room in the back of the place with nice cold ceramic on the floor, didn't have heating. It was intense.

allquixotic

i felt the temperature of the air right up against the unit to make sure it wouldn't burn her -- it feels like it's coming out at about 80 Fahrenheit, but it adjusts the temperature of the air coming out depending on how cold it measures the room temperature by the thermometer.. it isn't near hot enough to burn her though

she's put her nose up to it and sniffed it a few times, like "wut? why is this thing making noise and heat?"

Ariane

Sounds good. Too lazy to go convert that temperature though.

but I wouldn't worry. I seriously don't think she'd let herself be burned.

allquixotic

80 is a very comfortable temperature for air going over your skin coming from a fairly directional heat source when your room and the greater part of the house is about 10 - 12 degrees colder

on the other hand, if the entire environment is 80 degrees, that's a little warm for me to be comfortable

Ariane

I'm perplexed about how you could make the effort to think of that explanation and describe it in detail instead of just going to convert it, haha.

allquixotic

4:33 AM

it's all about context -- I like warm air when the overall perception is chilly, but if the overall perception is warm and muggy, 80 is just a few degrees beyond comfortable

Ariane

Ended up doing it. 26. That's an overall comfy temperature for me I think.

allquixotic

the space heater isn't enough wattage to consistently keep my room at a high temperature, it just doesn't put out enough BTUs of heat. so I have to keep it constantly on and keep it kind of near me in order for it to have any effect

at least I'm not burning through a ridiculous amount of power

it really is a low-end unit in terms of its output

Ariane

Like a mini campfire. Without the smoke.

allquixotic

yeah

i have a personal space heater AND a powerful air circulating fan in my room -- you can tell I live in a house where the controllers of the central A/C and I don't agree on what a reasonable temperature is, lol

in the summer I was running that fan on high, trying to get heat out of my room and into the hallway, because the A/C would be on but the cold air wasn't circulating into my room enough

Ariane

My school is about that smart. There are rooms where you'll always be cold, and rooms where you'll always be hot. Never found one where you can be okay. Except one computer rooms, between when it's cold and when the running computers make the room too hot.

allquixotic

4:40 AM

hehe

i think the companies that advertise personal space heaters and fans as energy saving having a valid point, especially in a sparsely populated dwelling, where you have more rooms than people

we have the entire basement, with almost as much volume as the ground floor, and one of our bedrooms vacant -- so if we just keep the thermostat turned down and use space heating or fans as necessary to keep people comfortable in the room they're in, we can probably save on energy, because we won't be expending energy to heat or cool vacant rooms

Bob

@all what is this about central heating/A/C? :P

(we just have a bunch of 1kW space heaters)

allquixotic

@Bob o_O seems like the more frugal thing to do

in the US it's almost assumed that every dwelling, and even most commercial buildings except for huge warehouses, will have central heating and cooling

relying on space heaters is an outlier for us

Bob

@all most houses here just have small A/C units, or nothing at all

central heating/cooling is more for large apartment buildings

allquixotic

do you guys tend to use blackbody radiation for heat, or convection (heating the air)?

over here almost all heat is convective

Ariane

@allquixotic Well over here places usually have a thermostat per room, and central heating is rare. Mostly because the vast majority of people heat with electricity and and electric central furnace probably doesn't make sense.

allquixotic

4:54 AM

although you can still buy the former at stores like Walmart

Bob

...I'm not sure how you use blackbody radiation (I assume you mean EM/IR) for heating

Ariane

@Bob I think that's normal heating. An object is heated where you want the heat, and the place is therefore heated, instead of making one place produce the whole heat for the whole building and then ventilating that air around the whole place.

allquixotic

@Bob well, an incandescent light bulb emits something like 80% of its energy as blackbody radiation, and the remainder as visible light

heating the air is the other option

here's the best way I can think of to explain it. WIKIPEDIA

Space heater

A space heater is a self-contained device for heating an enclosed area. Space heating is generally employed to warm a small space, and is usually held in contrast with central heating, which warms many connected spaces at once. Space heaters are usually portable or wall-mounted, and should be an electric heater in most cases, because natural gas or propane heating in an enclosed area is very dangerous without proper specialized ventilation systems. Types of heaters Space heaters can be divided into those that transfer their heat primarily by convection, or by radiation. Convective hea...

this goes back to my high school physics classes, where I learned that you can transfer heat (discounting nuclear and quantum physics entirely for the purpose of discussion) in exactly three ways: convection, conduction, and radiation

convection is where you raise the temperature of (mainly) water molecules in air, making the entire air stream warmer, and that air then runs over your skin and warms you up

a hair dryer is convection.

conduction is touching a hot stove with your hand; no space heaters do that

radiation in this sense is basically non-visible EM resulting from making an "element" really hot and then letting it reach equilibrium by slowly giving off blackbody radiation to its environment

Bob

@all yea, I get it, thanks. I just never made the connection to specific types of heaters

allquixotic

@Bob ok. well in the US we almost exclusively use convection, was wondering if you guys use radiation

Bob

5:01 AM

@all seen a few radiation ones around

I think we had one, but that was over a decade ago

the ones we use (as in, my family, not sure about the country as a whole) are convection

oil-filled space heaters with fins

they're also the ones you normally see at kmart and similar

allquixotic

it's pretty energy inefficient on the whole to heat an entire house (with significant room vacancy) by convection using a central heating system, but that's exactly what we do :/

it's slightly better to have a nice, warm but localized stream of convection, warming air that's aimed directly at a human being, while leaving the rest of the air in the house cooler or cold

or maybe a lot better depending on how localized

here we have some convective space heaters that spread their air out in a 360 degree pattern

others that have a powerful fan that blows it in one direction

Ariane

@allquixotic Oh I thought you meant convection as central heating. Didn't think you literally meant it as the way of transferring heat. Yeah I think radiation heating is globally rarer.

allquixotic

etc.

Journeyman Geek

even radiation heaters use convection

allquixotic

@Ariane except for people who use incandescent light bulbs for heat ;-)

Journeyman Geek

5:04 AM

unless you mean forced convection

allquixotic

@JourneymanGeek to a degree; and there is also some radiative heat emanating from a convective heater, but the distinction is which part is dominant

Ariane

Lol. Well there is that. :p

allquixotic

an incandescent light bulb as heat is doing almost no convection, and a whole lot of radiation

a powerful fan blowing hot air at someone is transfering most of its heat to the person by convection

Ariane

I saw a radiation space heater at Costco many years ago. It's the best for instant warming up (like, if you just came in from outside and you wanna warm yourself, but for long-term it's pretty uncomfortable because it heats one side of you and the other side remains rather cold.

And well to begin with people rarely use space heaters here. Virtually every place has heating separated per room.

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic: or mine for bitcoin.

allquixotic

5:07 AM

one way to do convection with very little radiation is to have a "heat pump" system, which operates on the same principle as a refrigerator, except that it's taking heat out of the outside environment and concentrating that heat and dumping it into your house as warmer air, instead of what a food refrigerator typically does, which is to take heat out of the internal environment of the fridge and dump it into the surrounding room

the builders that constructed our house installed a heat pump system as "included" in the house deal, but we eventually had it replaced with a natural gas central heating system

Ariane

Yush, air exchangers, we call that here. Though in the winter it can only give us air from outside without it being so cold, it would never actually heat. I didn't know there were models that could actually be the house's heating.

Well I speak in the present. Not like I have one now.

allquixotic

@Ariane as far as the cost passed on to the consumer, natural gas is the cheapest heat per BTU in the United States right now, because we have a steady supply of abundant natural gas

electric convective heating for the entire house is extremely inefficient and expensive

and a heat pump is better than that but not as good as natural gas

Ariane

I think it's mostly because you DON'T have a steady supply of abundant electricity. :p

allquixotic

if you're going to have central heating for the whole house, you may as well get natural gas, because it's cheaper and it ends up using less net fossil fuels, because it produces more CO2 to burn coal, transfer the electricity to your house, then convert that electricity into heat... you lose efficiency at multiple points along the way

Psycogeek

@allquixotic I think some of that also has to do with: The gas really likes to burn, and the electricity doesnt really like to be shorted out :-)

Ariane

5:12 AM

'Cause here electric heating is the most efficient I believe, not to mention among the greenest. 'Cause well. We don't burn stuff for electricity. oo'

What I'm really interested in is geothermy (don't think it's called that in English). It basically uses the principle of how the ground is cooler than the air in the summer and vice versa in the winter to heat or cool your house. Not sure but I think our teacher told us a good system can be sufficient to heat your whole home with almost no artificial energy. Though apparently it's a really big initial investment so most people aren't up to it.

allquixotic

@Ariane well.... if your electricity comes from solar, wind or hydro, it's super environmentally friendly to use that for heat, compared to fossil fuels... but we don't have enough of those things to be able to use them widespread

@Ariane geothermal

Ariane

Thanks

allquixotic

geothermal is a great idea and it works well... you end up having to dig into the ground significantly to make use of it though

Ariane

And yeah, we're, I think, the biggest hydroelectricity producers in the world. We can heat the whole province, give astronomical amounts to aluminium plants, and there's still some left. We sell some to the US.

allquixotic

and if you need more significant heating/cooling than geothermal can offer at the moment, you end up having to have an auxiliary system that eventually ends up burning fossil fuels somehow (at least here) to pick up the slack

Ariane

5:16 AM

Hmm if you really wanna be 100% green in all situations, you can get a really efficient long-lasting battery, plugged onto solar panels, for that. Something like that. But that sounds like a plan for a millionaire. Or someone living in a particularly comfy place.

How much of the US gets electricity that doesn't come from burning stuff?

Come to think of it, assuming you have a flawless accident-proof plan and that you discover a revolutionary way to get rid of radioactive waste, nuclear power is pretty green too.

allquixotic

@Ariane about 1/3rd of our electricity comes from nuclear, but there haven't been any new licenses to build new nuclear power plants (or new reactors at existing sites) for about 20-25 years, and the old reactors are starting to dwindle, and are becoming less able to handle the rising energy demands as things like computers add load to the grid

Calvert Cliffs Nuclear Power Plant

The Calvert Cliffs Nuclear Power Plant (CCNPP) is a nuclear power plant located on the western shore of the Chesapeake Bay near Lusby, Calvert County, Maryland in the Mid-Atlantic United States. Overview The plant, owned and operated by CENG, a joint venture between Exelon and Électricité de France, has two 2700 megawatt thermal (MWth) Combustion Engineering Generation II two-loop pressurized water reactors. Each generating plant (CCNPP 1&2) produces approximately 850 megawatt electrical (MWe) net or 900 MWe gross. Each plant's electrical load consumes approximately 50 MWe. These are sa...

that plant services my area, but our power is a blend of fossil fuels from a nearby coal-fired power plant, and some base load provided by that nuclear plant

Ariane

I wonder if finding a large volcano with exposed lava and dumping barrels of radioactive waste into it is a sound plan.

Nah, that's silly, it melting won't accomplish anything but trouble.

Well there's always shooting all of that stuff on the sun. But that's way too expensive to do.

allquixotic

they wanted to build a third reactor that would (1) double the plant's total power output while the existing reactors are running simultaneously with it, and (2) effectively replace the original reactors, constructed between 1968 and 1977, once they are deemed too old to continue to operate. but the company that wanted to build the new reactor was French-owned, so they declined it out of paranoia

Ariane

Lol. The essence of soundness.

allquixotic

I think they should rouse up the people and American companies that built the original nuclear reactors between the late 60s and the 80s, and have them replace our existing nuclear power reactors with the next-generation reactors that are twice as efficient and MUCH safer... once the new reactors are online, they can get rid of the old ones, eliminating that risk on society, associated with operating ancient technology

Ariane

5:25 AM

But are American companies still in business and up to date?

allquixotic

they could effectively double the nuclear contribution to our baseline power grid, if they replaced every old 60s-80s reactor with a new reactor that produces twice as much electricity, and at the same time, raise the likelihood that we'll continue to operate without any nuclear accidents like Fukushima

Psycogeek

The nuclear plants , besides being a high risk, are burning stuff too. Massive ammounts of deisil fuel are used in the extraction of the ore , in the mining. Some claim this ammount to be very very high. (not sure i believe them). Which makes me wonder how fance pulls it off.

allquixotic

@Ariane there are American companies that can build much safer, high-tech reactors, yes, the capability is definitely there

Ariane

@Psycogeek That's not directly attributable to the energy production. It could theoretically all come from something else than diesel.

allquixotic

mostly as part of large conglomerates that are able to make profit elsewhere while they invest R&D in nuclear just "in case"

like GE

@Psycogeek France isn't even that important anymore in the nuclear scene -- China is building an incredible number of nuclear power plants

they're using coal and natural gas and nuclear, in large quantities of each

Psycogeek

5:28 AM

@Ariane True they have massive mining machines that use electricity. But if the processes themselves in total (like making solar cells to begin with) are not added into the mix, the "green" ammount is only a perception.

allquixotic

they have an insatiable hunger for energy :)

@Psycogeek it may not be as green as it seems, but it seems like a huge stretch to say that the cost of extracting the ore and building the power plant is greater than the revenue/profit from operating the plant for decades

Ariane

Also I don't think it'd work that way. They'll want to build the new reactors next to the old ones (if they do build them), and use the old ones as long as they possibly can. That's how politicians work. No matter if it costs 10 billion dollars more over the next decade, if it costs 100 millions initially instead of a billion, they'll do that, because people are stupid.

Psycogeek

Example: we have a "green" electric train, that may very well be more green, if it burned the fuel it ends up using in reality, in the place that the energy is expended.

allquixotic

also, due to safety reasons, we currently only convert a very small percentage of the fission fuel's energy into electricity that we can sell and consume.... but if we can find a safe way to use a larger portion of the fission fuel, like in a Thorium reactor or a molten salt reactor, then it becomes a much stronger proposition

Ariane

@Psycogeek That might be true, but going further in the theory it's possible to indeed have all energy be 100% green always with no compromises. In theory.

Psycogeek

5:31 AM

@allquixotic It would not be a stretch if those same reactors were important to certian creations of doomsday devices.

allquixotic

@Ariane well, on the surface of it, I don't have any objection to them running older nuclear power reactors, as long as they are adhering to the same safety regulations as the new ones -- I just don't want them saying "eh, that thing from the 60s, we can't make it safe, so we'll just write it off as passed anyway"

that kind of thinking got Japan into trouble

Ariane

Two wires of two specific metals, twisted around each other, spontaneously directly convert heat to electricity, in small amounts. How awesome would it be if someone discovered something like this but on a bigger scale.

@allquixotic But they WILL do that. Since when were the US cautious?

allquixotic

@Ariane scaling problems are the reason why we have to burn fossil fuels at all, today

if we didn't have scaling problems with wind, or solar, or hydro, we could stop mining petroleum products for fuel entirely, just leaving the mining of petroleum for their small use in pharmaceuticals, and their significant but not huge use in plastics

Psycogeek

@allquixotic It also would not be so stretched sounding, if they had actually found places for, and cleaned up the leftovers. besides using it (also) for amunitions.

allquixotic

burning for fuel for electricity or transportation is the vast majority of the purpose of oil, coal, and natural gas

take that away and the remainder is practically sustainable

we can make a dizzying amount of plastic and cosmetics with the remaining petroleum reserves

but not if we burn it all in our cars and power plants

Ariane

5:35 AM

Hey, did you hear about green petroleum?

allquixotic

@Ariane no, and neither did you :P

Ariane

I did.

Psycogeek

@allquixotic And there is something really green, about making products that decompose in time :-)

Ariane

Green being the colour of the petroleum, by the way.

allquixotic

heh

i was like, wait a sec, there's no such thing :P

kinda like there's no such thing as sustainable growth :P

►

Ariane

5:39 AM

They take algae that produce especially high amounts of fatty products, and put them in large cylinders through which CO2 bubbles. When the tube gets really dark, they take out the algae-full water, filter most of the water out of it, and they get a thick green product... which behaves exactly like petroleum products in many uses, and can actually be used in a motor for normal fuel.

Burning that petroleum does produce the same CO2 as burning normal fuel, but during production, the algae "eat" twice that amount of CO2. Which makes the whole process almost completely ecological, minus the imperfect consumption by-products like CO and NOx.

The CO2 comes from a nearby plant that produces CO2 that would normally all go off in pollution.

allquixotic

@Ariane that kind of "full resource utilization" is really neat, and helps delay some of the effects of our choices

same as things like recycling, reusing canvas bags instead of plastic throwaway bags, using methane and CO2 from landfills, etc

the video posted above is awesome tho

Psycogeek

@Ariane Which is just an accelerated version, of earth compressed bio gasses. You would be asking them to do more than USE , what was created over thousands of years, might put a strain on them. My issue will be they will want to Genetically alter the species for one goal, which mihgt incurr other energy wastes trying to fix that.

allquixotic

really explains it all

Ariane

It is. What's interesting about it is that you can just throw it into any car and it'll work. It's a lot easier to implement than many other solutions. And in an ideal world it would be a way to catch much of the unavoidable CO2 some industry produces.

@Psycogeek .............What?

@allquixotic To be honest, I don't have the courage to watch it right now.

Psycogeek

@Ariane I said they would turn it into Mutant zombie algie, and kill us all. Its in the book, the stated intentions are to create an algie for this purpose.

Ariane

5:47 AM

Yes right. Now let's sleep.

Psycogeek

yes let's , assuming you mean you. I just woke up a few hours ago.

@allquixotic eia.gov/state/rankings/?sid=CA#series/12 (taking into account that some people certannly need more)

Ariane

6:04 AM

Wow. I bought a jumbo box of Just Right cereal. 935 g. It's almost half gone since this morning.

@Psycogeek That was mostly a sarcastic conclusion line because you're again started up on something I don't understand for poop and I've had my fill of that for today. But yeah, I'm actually going to bed now. So good night.

Psycogeek

@Ariane good night.

(with no sarcasm intended)

Journeyman Geek

7:12 AM

is that the no pun intended?

Journeyman Geek

7:33 AM

ow

Bob

7:49 AM

@JourneymanGeek ?

@allquixotic Oh NOW Zeneva has stock

Got 22 emails, once every 5 mins from 5 PM onwards

(had a cron script scraping the site)

Journeyman Geek

8:02 AM

@Bob: heh, was sitting too long, my knees seized up ;p

Bob

8:15 AM

@JourneymanGeek o.O

Einsteins Grandson

8:36 AM

can't connect to our intranet website

;o)

what can i do to sort it out?

;o)

other people in the office can

i pinged the site and got 4 packets back ...

so the problem is not on my side

Psycogeek

8:48 AM

coca-colacompany.com/food/… Chocklate (chip) Cookies with no flour, and no grain products , at all. Prooof of concept, or so crasy its worth putting up on da web.

Bob

9:25 AM

always love this one:

> <erno> hm. I've lost a machine.. literally lost. it responds to ping, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my apartment it is.

(and with raspis, that's even more likely now)

Einsteins Grandson

restart of PC worked...

Psycogeek

@EinsteinsGrandson Great, anything else we can help you with today?

Oliver Salzburg

9:48 AM

I just passed a shop on my way here that had a box of nature magazines in front. The box was labeled to let you know that you could take them for free. I thought they were like last month issue or something and grabbed one. Turns out the magazine is older than I am

Boris_yo

9:59 AM

@Psycogeek I heard you can't speak until allowed. Did judge fine you or impose penalty?

Journeyman Geek

@Bob: web.archive.org/web/20010413173740/http://www.techweb.com/wire/…

@Bob: if that happened it it was a linux system, I'd just use beep

Psycogeek

@Boris_yo nope, I didnt do what i wanted to do, which would be to call the judge various names, and yell loudly, and swear a whole lot. I just very nicely said tiny portions of what rattled around in my head. The audience was more surprised than the judge.

Boris_yo

@Psycogeek I wonder if about people vs. people if there can be person with lawyer's specialty. That would be unfair but I am sure there must be some kind of disclosure.

Psycogeek

If ever i should be FALSLY accused of murder, I think i would be very inclined to be disruptive in court, to the point of jumping the table and choking somebody , because the court (oops CORK) has becomes such a load of crap, instead of a search for truth.

@Boris_yo You can be sued by a lawyer , in small claims court :-) but the lawyer cant have a lawyer represent them ?

@Boris_yo I actually got Cut off by the judge from being able to even present "my side of the story" . It should be concidered that the paperwork you submit to the court system , can in itself be pre-judged. I think you can see judge judy at times having already made a descision prior to her hearing the case. In my situation, the paperwork was not notorised, so the case was over before it began. I would have prefered to Been allowed to present Any freaking way.

At least with Judge judy, for the show they go through the motions of hearing a case. In the court i was in there was no such TV theatrics needed.

Boris_yo

@Psycogeek Yes, will have to debate with lawyer's old mom.

Psycogeek

10:13 AM

lol , now thats how it should be.

Boris_yo

@Psycogeek Or using successful walkthrough at the court. Or activating cheat code for 100% success rate or god mode.

Psycogeek

@Boris_yo Long ago when i drove like an idiot, I had to go to traffic court to deny charges of way excessive speeding. When it was just speeding. I went to 3-4 court sessions to see how things work in there, before my own case would come up.

Bob

@JourneymanGeek I remember that one :D

@JourneymanGeek Assuming it had a buzzer.

Psycogeek

When my turn came, i was mostly prepared to defend the excessive speeding charge, using math and logic , The stupid car itself was not even capable of doing the speeds i was charged with. Not that i didnt try and get to them :-) The Cop didnt even show up in court, the case was tossed out. I get off scott free.

All the other cases i saw in this "small claims court" alegged to be for regular people, were anything but. Each of the peoples were very law savy, friendly with the judge as if they show up there very often. And very Law based. The only thing that made it a peoples court was the size of the judgements (maximum money invloved) One case even had 8 people being sub-represented by one.

Everyone in the small claims court, had a lawyer , just not representing them. They had all certannly had thier cases gone over with their lawyer. I wouldnt doubt that 1/2 of them spent ON that lawyer all the money they would ever get in the court :-) assuming they did win.

Bob

10:41 AM

hm

Psycogeek

-- the system was not there for people, its was there for the law machine to handle smaller cases. Regular people need to settle thier differances at the O.K. corral

Bob

anyone here familiar with dropbox on a server?

I want to share/sync one specific folder

go away clippy

there is a client for servers with a CLI, but the only way to select folders is to exclude the ones I don't want

alternatively, I could make another account and share a folder with it... but would that be against ToS? can't see anything on their ToS or AUP saying one account only...

Boris_yo

11:11 AM

@Bob Dropbox on a server? Like integrated in cPanel?

@Psycogeek How do lawyers survive? By staging accidents and charging others.

Bob

@Boris_yo wtf

Psycogeek

@Boris_yo I dont think they have to, millions of people crash autos without any help from lawyers :-)

Boris_yo

@Bob What is Dropbox on a server?

@Psycogeek I heard regular evil and exploitative pedestrians stage accidents to make money.

Psycogeek

@Boris_yo yes , people falling to try and sue. people who will get in front of your car and slam on the brakes risking deaths . I think to stop that behaviour just a few times, somone should drive over thier heads (no witnesses) just to show them the error of thier ways :-)

Journeyman Geek

@Bob: heh, used it ages ago, but never did that. I use bitorrent sync for that now.

Boris_yo

11:36 AM

@Psycogeek Surveillance, surveillance everywhere...

Journeyman Geek

heh, this went badly. I ended up first trying to load a file directly to my tablet . Then email... and then pushbullet.

Boris_yo

TigerDirect Black Friday Ad 2013 blackfriday.com/stores/tiger-direct/flyers/…

They have hourly specials probably to control inflow of traffic to their offline and online stores.

@Psycogeek Never understood people who upgraded their tablets, let alone smartphones for the sake of smooth video games gameplay.

Bob

@JourneymanGeek these files are alerady on DB and synced between two computers

I did look into git-based DB substitutes before, though

never really went anywhere

Journeyman Geek

11:59 AM

@Bob: I'm used to dropbox, other than the android client syncing all the things

Bob

@JourneymanGeek yea, that's going to be part of my problem with this :P

yay irc

Journeyman Geek

and BT sync basically gives you unlimited sync, and seperate file buckets

Bob

I have no idea what I'm doing

Journeyman Geek

seriously worth looking at. I have it on my pi ;p

Bob

@JourneymanGeek no version control

I was actually looking at sparkleshare

Journeyman Geek

12:02 PM

@Bob: has some sort of primitive version control

Bob

@JourneymanGeek sparkleshare has git

enough said :P

Journeyman Geek

true ;p

HaydnWVN

I have a network diagram and I want to find out the software used creating it... Any ideas? dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66653574/Network_Diagram_Ideal.png

Bob

@HaydnWVN hey! it's been a while!

how've you been?

...the background reminds me of CAD programs

HaydnWVN

Hey sorry, works been manic and have no time for SU/SO anymore :(

Bob

12:20 PM

@haydn might be gliffy

gliffy.com

no. 4 on this list techrepublic.com/blog/five-apps/…

firewall and cloud symbols are rather distinctive