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Rob
12:03 AM
@ArtOfCode Thanks for the DB Dump - should be fun to poke around with
 
@Rob No worries
 
12:33 AM
tpu- by NobodyNada
 
@DavidPostill wait, are you sure we should nuke that? The user has 3.5k rep
 
sd f
 
@Undo [:34818110] That message is not a report.
 
@SmokeDetector f
 
12:35 AM
@ArtOfCode could I get one too? Email on my profile
 
@angussidney did Undo not email you a link to the full one earlier?
 
@NobodyNada Looked spammish to me
 
yeah, I thought so too
If it was a 1-rep user, it would certainly have been flag-worthy
 
@ArtOfCode He might have sent it to the one which I don't have access to on my phone
 
@angussidney live.com.au?
 
12:37 AM
ah
 
That's the only one I've got.
sd f
 
you sure? see the second link
 
tpu- by NobodyNada
 
Can't tie it to the user, and they have a valid-ish question stackoverflow.com/q/41603468/1849664
 
12:43 AM
alright, makes sense
I'm terrible at identifying spam today
 
Huh, why was that one deleted?
 
Rob
Which one?
 
Rob
Doesn't it always remove for 'f'? Or should it stay since it's conflicting?
 
12:49 AM
@angussidney link in your emails
 
Restart: API quota is 2202.
 
@Undo uhm, I think the config in my smokey got a little broken, do you mind a brief test run of my instance to make sure I didn't totally break Smokey to the point I need to restore from a backup?
 
Sure, go for it. Just don't use stappit, kill it from the command line on your side
 
nope, all looks good
@Undo yeah, of course. :)
acftually, @Undo are you able to force-kill smokey? I want to test something where a while ago I ran into a case where I broke every Smokey API query and it was causing evils every msg.
(The core issue was a trailing slash at the end of a command, it broke things)
 
@ThomasWard kill -9 pid
 
@ArtOfCode I'm not on Undo's instance
and any testing here will affect both mine and his
 
Yes, but not right now
 
1:08 AM
to the point we have to kill -9 it
 
oh, I thought you meant in general
 
@ArtOfCode nah, I know how to torpedo the process.
 
But I will be able to on a few minutes, so go ahead and deploy whatever you want
 
Everything runs in a dedicated user on Aurora for Smokey, so I have a script that kills all pids owned by that user
 
Anyone know the difference between CNAME and A records, in simple terms?
 
1:09 AM
emergency nuclear bomb, so to speak
@ArtOfCode A records are direct IP references. CNAMEs are aliases that refer to other records' A/AAAA results
 
@ArtOfCode A records are better. CNAME records gave me fits for a long time when I was 12 or so
 
^ that
 
Of course, back then DNS was just confusing in general. Not saying it isn't anymore
 
So A has lower latency, too. @Undo is the MS server IP fixed or is it likely to change?
 
most of my records are A records, either dynamically updated or don't change :P
 
1:10 AM
@ArtOfCode should be fixed, it's on an elastic IP I can shunt around
 
@Undo i won't until you're here, I need to make sure it's an issue and do some tracing to find where the problem is
 
kk
 
and if it is an issue, i'll start looking into any types of sanitization (like, if the last character is `` then strip it away)
 
A it is, then. Traffic running through metasmoke.charcoal-se.org now runs through Cloudflare, for your added protection against the zero threats we're facing.
 
lol
 
1:13 AM
and apparently I can't enable different levels of SSL verification for different subdomains, which is annoying
.charcoal-se.org. is GH pages, which has an SSL cert but the CN is weird, so it can encrypt but the cert shouldn't be verified. Meanwhile, metasmoke.charcoal-se.org. has a valid SSL cert, so could be verified, if Cloudflare would let me
 
@ArtOfCode would we be after a wildcard, then, for GH pages, or are we intending individual certs? If it's not many certs I can provide some $$$ towards specific gh pages subdomains' certs
you should be able to put that cert and key then up with each domain
and that cert is served
 
Okay, few minutes here @ThomasWard.
 
raises eyebrows so the certification path for metasmoke.charcoal-se.org is now to Cloudflare (CN=sni268372.cloudflaressl.com; IA=Comodo ECC...) instead of metasmoke (CN=metasmoke.charcoal-se.org; IA=LetsEncrypt Root Authority X3), and the metasmoke cert behind the Cloudflare cert never actually gets verified. Suddenly wondering if that's not too much of a trade-off for negligible threat protection.
 
@Undo just let me know :)
 
Go for it
 
1:24 AM
!!/gitstatus \
 
On branch deploy
Your branch is up-to-date with 'origin/deploy'.
nothing to commit, working directory clean
 
!!/coffee
 
@ThomasWard brews coffee for @ThomasWard
 
!!/blacklist-website testing123\.com\
 
@ArtOfCode Yeah, probably not worth it
 
1:24 AM
@ThomasWard Blacklisted testing123\.com\
 
and now it's going to resolutely refuse to break, just because you're testing it
 
yeah i'll revert that obviously
looks like it's not dying shrugs
okay, crisis averted I guess
it went into a really weird loop when it was on Aurora and I fatfingered and put a \ in the end of a command shrugs
 
Yep, not ded
 
CI on caa8283 failed.
 
if we start seeing api query failed messages then we know I fubar'd something :)
I knew that would fail :)
that may be something we want to fix
trailing slash at the end of a blacklist request == bad
 
1:26 AM
It's just not a valid regex, and CI catches it
 
@Undo is the soprimaries server supposed to be running? Passenger error page on soprimaries.charcoal-se.org
 
Might be good to reject it upfront, though
 
yep
@Undo that's what i meant, catch and reject up front
 
@ArtOfCode ah. To-do, I guess.
Anyway, afk. Cya folks :)
 
CI on b9f6091 succeeded. Message contains 'autopull', pulling...
Restart: API quota is 2104.
 
1:30 AM
@Undo a lot (though i think it can be even better if we look for \bdr\b instead of plain dr)
 
what other things are invalid at the end of the regex, if I might ask? I assume both slashes, is there anything else I have to catch?
 
@ThomasWard just run it through a regex parser
 
@ArtOfCode easy then
items = message_parts[1:]
for item in items:
    try:
        re.compile(item)
    except re.error:
        return Response(command_status=False, message="An invalid item was found in the item(s) being blacklisted.")
something like that :P
though that adds an import
 
@ThomasWard you don't happen to know about DNSSEC and DS records, do you?
 
@ArtOfCode i've dabbled in DNSSEC in the past, yes.
why?
it's finnicky.
(I run my own DNS name servers, remember?)
@ArtOfCode does the regex compilation test also apply for keyword and username blacklisting?
 
1:40 AM
@ThomasWard this is why I asked :) I'm trying to stick a DS record on charcoal-se.org, but it's throwing an error at me.
@ThomasWard keywords, yes. Not sure about usernames - have a look at wherever they're used in findspam.py - if they get regex-compiled there, then you need to check 'em here too
 
yes it's regex compiled
{'regex': ur"(?i)({})".format("|".join(blacklisted_usernames)) ...
 
yep, so you'll wanna check it there too
 
hmm, I wonder if I should create a new function for checking this
code repetition is not nice.
 
Sometimes the treatment is worse than the disease, though
 
1:46 AM
oops almost out of power, back in a bit (laptop)
@ArtOfCode if you'd like, spotcheck my code before doing a !!/pull, if CI succeeds.
 
CI on b2caf8c succeeded.
API quota rolled over with 2004 requests remaining. Current quota: 9999.
stackoverflow: 1275
askubuntu: 485
superuser: 435
unix: 269
drupal: 213
math: 176
electronics: 155
english: 141
travel: 139
ell: 136
salesforce: 128
security: 126
mathoverflow.net: 125
apple: 125
dba: 125
gaming: 116
wordpress: 111
worldbuilding: 110
magento: 106
gis: 103
scifi: 94
diy: 94
academia: 92
movies: 91
sharepoint: 90
physics: 83
ru.stackoverflow: 77
es.stackoverflow: 77
chemistry: 76
tex: 73
stats: 72
mathematica: 72
money: 71
rpg: 70
webapps: 67
graphicdesign: 64
meta: 64
android: 59
 
@ThomasWard IIRC, we use the regex module, rather than re
 
2:14 AM
@ArtOfCode hrm. That's... a third party module if I'm not mistaken
 
Yeah
 
Yup. It's in requirements.txt
 
fun fact
documentation is sparse as hell for it
 
also yep
honestly, I don't know why we use it, but we should be consistent at leadt
 
true
a little less friendly for error catching though (see latest push)
and I had to add more IDE suppressions >.>
 
2:20 AM
CI on 2d64fba succeeded.
 
>>> pattern = "foobarbaz\.com\\"
>>> print pattern
foobarbaz\.com\
>>> regex.compile(pattern)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/regex.py", line 345, in compile
    return _compile(pattern, flags, kwargs)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/regex.py", line 490, in _compile
    caught_exception.pos)
_regex_core.error: bad escape (end of pattern) at position 15
^ evidence
 
You're gonna need to import regex, @ThomasWard
 
@ArtOfCode it should already be imported, but you're right, i'll update
 
Are you aware of the existence of python-pcre?
 
(I'm tired)
 
2:23 AM
@ThomasWard I'm not paying a lot of attention, but I think that error is because two backslashes inserts a single backslash, and a single backslash at the end of a regex isn't valid?
 
@NobodyNada that's the point
@NobodyNada we're working on validating items in a blacklist
 
@quartata nope
 
oops. I'm not paying any attention. Sorry!
 
that is, if I called `!!/blacklist-website foo-bar-baz.123` it'd error out and return a failure response to here
 
CI on 9706c48 succeeded.
 
2:24 AM
@NobodyNada no problem :)
I disappeared for a while anyways, traveled home, so it's a continuation from an earlier discussion
@ArtOfCode spot check me again please :)
me being tired is not cool :P
 
@ArtofCode Not really sure what's going on but since you were talking third party regex modules I figured I should mention it. It's a drop in replacement for re
 
@quartata so is regex it seems, but we're already using regex so... consistency
core thing is we're trying to see if a pattern is valid :P
 
@ThomasWard hi! what timezone are you in?
 
@ThomasWard looks good
 
@ArtOfCode one more thing - minor optimizations
then i'll pull it in
 
2:26 AM
@quartata yeah, if we ever get round to changing regex clients then we'll look at it
 
@MarkYisri the timezone of pure evil and darkness.
(why not check my Launchpad Profile, where it's listed?)
 
@ThomasWard you speak beyond me
 
CI on 05f4906 succeeded.
 
cool
!!/pull
 
Restart: API quota is 9895.
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, bad keyword with email in answer, email in answer: what would allow an epidemic on the scale of the Black Death to happen again? by Martins Blake on worldbuilding.stackexchange.com
 
2:30 AM
@ThomasWard why invalid?
 
9 messages deleted
 
also that keyword was cheeky
 
tpu- by NobodyNada
 
@MarkYisri pattern has to pass regex checks.
if it will cause invalid regex issues then it's invalid
(trailing \ at the end broke things)
@MarkYisri Eastern US time zone, in case you care (currently UTC-05:00)
@quartata was meant to be. We poke fun at each other sometimes, here at Charcoal :)
it's how we keep things light and friendly and receptive to input, while also getting stuff done :)
 
Of course all the evidence is gone now ;)
 
2:32 AM
We also throw fire extinguishers around, because they aren't locked. We may or may not be irresponsible.
 
@quartata a lot of charcoal gods here are diamond mods, so the evidence is visible to us :P
but you're not wrong :)
@ArtOfCode YOU GUYS may throw fire extinguishers around. You partly do that because I keep tossing incendiary grenades around.
 
@ThomasWard est here too
 
... accidentally.
 
I thought you were playing with LOKI this month, not the incendiaries.
 
ooops I have three things to read by tomorrow... blah, i hate philosophy courses
@ArtOfCode LOKI is reserved for the evil people. Incendiaries are just for fun :)
(there's also a LOKI-compatible incendiary strike weapon which is basically a huge ballistic rod filled with incendiaries, but we don't use that often)
 
2:34 AM
@ThomasWard I'm suddenly quite glad our fire extinguishers aren't locked.
 
:P
well we can't say I haven't tossed a few fire grenades into Smokey's code and broken things before :P
usually fast enough to put the fires out, but eh
 
Also, I can neither confirm nor deny the existence of a weapon almost exactly like that IRL.
 
i once accidentally almost committed a change to Smokey that would have wiped out gitmanager in its entirety.
whoops.
glad I caught myself! (git reset --hard)
@MarkYisri mind if I ask why you were curious?
 
.how does smokey autorestart?
 
black magic
it has code that can kill off its python process, and so long as nocrash.sh was used to launch Smokey, it can auto start Smokey again, I believe.
(it also restarts Smokey on a hard crash, i.e. an exception that doesn't have any handling code for it, and we had quite a few cases of that before I started tinkering)
 
2:38 AM
@ThomasWard just wondered your tz vs mine
 
cool
 
This is the point where I hope I don't wake up to a whole bunch of autoflagging failures tomorrow morning.
 
@ArtOfCode did that hapoen b4?
 
It's quite interesting watching what values people are picking, though
@MarkYisri no, but registrations opened up today
 
@ArtOfCode I'd ask for details, but I don't have access to that PII I think :P
 
2:41 AM
ereader keyboards are terrible, hence the text. abbrv.
registration?
 
@ThomasWard admin-role-restricted, but it's not exactly sensitive. Most people are going for 280/1/1, with some variations here and there
 
and in human terms that translates to?
(I'm not caught up on the autoflagging terminology... yet.)
 
whats that for?
 
@ThomasWard min weight/max author rep/min reason count
 
ah, cool
 
2:44 AM
Becomes more obvious when you set conditions up for yourself
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: Kylin Ubuntu in Tianhe 2 by Alain MOCCHETTI on askubuntu.com (@ThomasWard)
 
Or sandbox them, for that matter.
 
@SmokeDetector tpu-
 
@SmokeDetector k
 
2:45 AM
@SmokeDetector I loaded this right between locking and deletion
 
why is that locked
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer: zmq_vmci not supported for QNX VM? by Green World on stackoverflow.com (@dorukayhan)
 
@YvetteColomb mod spamflag
from me
but to report it can't be deleted
 
tpu- by NobodyNada
 
so temporary undelete
 
2:46 AM
@MarkYisri automatic flagging. It's been running on my account for a couple weeks, but we opened it up for other people to register today
 
still ultimately purged, thanks to diamond powered orbital strikes.
 
@ThomasWard ah thanks. I made a custom mod flag on it, sorry
 
@YvetteColomb i'll dismiss
 
@ThomasWard k
 
can i sign up please?
 
2:46 AM
@YvetteColomb declined with "Use standard reasons" lol
@MarkYisri no
 
@ThomasWard that's a shame, there was no other flag option for me to use. That is why I mod flagged
 
@ArtOfCode knows why I say "no" here.
 
@YvetteColomb ah, OK. (I'm just annoying too as a mod, sometimes)
it's still handled though :)
anyways, time for me to read the epic of gilgamesh >.>
beats head on desk
stupid philosophy course
 
@MarkYisri you'd need the flagger permission, which doesn't get granted without smokey privs
 
2:48 AM
i thought that smokey handled autoflags auto
 
It does, but permissions are on the administrative, i.e. human, side of things
 
i see.
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, bad keyword in username, pattern-matching website in body: Zyntix Male Enhancement by Zyntix on graphicdesign.stackexchange.com
tpu- by NobodyNada
 
Metasmoke has a bunch of permissions - we grant reviewer when you get smokey privs, flagger to allow autoflagging signups, code admin if you've got blacklist or GH privs, admin if you're an admin, and developer if you're special.
 
@SmokeDetector autoflagged
 
2:51 AM
There's generally no reason to grant one of those without all the permissions before it also being granted
 
@NobodyNada That post was not automatically flagged by metasmoke.
 
why wasn't it?
 
@ArtOfCode "special" lol
 
@ThomasWard basically, yeah. I have all 5 roles, and I still can't grant developer - you need the sixth, figurative, role to do that
 
i shall go to bed now
 
2:53 AM
o/
 
@NobodyNada uhhh... this may be bad. CC @Undo for server logs.
 
!!/ping
!!/location
 
@MarkYisri Undo's EC2
 
still alive
 
@MarkYisri but wouldn't it be an MS problem, not an SD one?
 
2:58 AM
is metasmoke seperate? @ArtOfCode
 
@MarkYisri yes Smokey and MS are separate, but depend on each other for things
@ArtOfCode I didn't break anything did I?
 
@NobodyNada yeah, definitely, I just don't know what. It should have been flagged - literally everyone who's signed up could have flagged that - but there's no record the autoflagging system even considered that post
 
so while separate code bases, they rely on each other.
 
@ThomasWard unlikely
 
and its run from (ms)?
 
3:00 AM
autoflagging is, yeah
 
@MarkYisri MS handles autoflagging. Smokey handles real-time post parsing which it passes to MetaSmoke
the two communicate with each other to make everything work :P
 
where is ms run? undos ec2?
 
Yep. Same box as smokey at he moment, I think
The host for metasmoke doesn't change like it does for smokey, though
 
hmmm... network issues?
 
I doubt it's a network issue -- MS received the post just fine, but it never considered it for flagging. Also, it's running on a virtual server in an Amazon datacenter, so a network glitch would be very unlikely.
 
3:02 AM
trying to wrap your head round the whole system is kinda like trying to wrap your head around spaghetti, though. It takes a while...
 
@ArtOfCode Smokey can run pretty much anywhere, whether it be on my infrastructure or the same box as MS, etc., which is a good thing
@ArtOfCode Or trying to wrap your mind around paradoxes :)
 
The post will have run through the flagging routine, so there's a bug in it somewhere
 
so i could run my own copy?
 
Yup
it wouldn't integrate with metasmoke unless you ran your own copy of that too, but you could run a smokey easily enough
 
is it hard to step through the code?
 
3:05 AM
As in, read from scratch and understand the code base? Yes.
I still don't get half of it, and I've been here a long time
 
ereader btry low, ping me if you resolve this, will respond tomorrow from pc
 
3:32 AM
@Art On mobile now, do whatever you need to. Will be at a machine on around 20min
 
3:48 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, link following arrow in body, pattern-matching website in body, pattern-matching website in title: httpnewmusclesupplements.com/nitric-muscle-uptake/ by Alanduncan on graphicdesign.stackexchange.com
 
my goodness, that's a lot of filters
 
tpu- by Yvette
 
@SmokeDetector autoflagged
 
@NobodyNada That post was not automatically flagged by metasmoke.
 
@Art @Undo ^
 
3:58 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: android pressing back button should exit the app by Uday Shah on stackoverflow.com (@dorukayhan)
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in title, pattern-matching website in body: Increase Muscular Body Effectively With These Muscle Building Tips by user220298 on apple.stackexchange.com
 
Okay, so what's up?
 
yeah, so it looks like autoflagging is just broken, not that it's decided to send all the flags.
yay for defensive programming
 
well that's something
 
4:12 AM
baha, found it
 
well done Sherlock
 
nil is evil.
 
78
A: Are null references really a bad thing?

Jonasnull is evil There is a presentation on InfoQ on this topic: Null References: The Billion Dollar Mistake by Tony Hoare Option type The alternative from functional programming is using an Option type, that can contain SOME value or NONE. A good article The “Option” Pattern that discuss the Opt...

 
Rob
People incorrectly blame null when really it's the type system letting them down in my experience
Such as the way typescript handles it :)
 
4:17 AM
@ArtOfCode et al, if you're curious, this was the issue.
!!/blacklist-website testing123\.com\
 
@Undo An invalid website pattern was found in the item(s) being blacklisted.
 
Cool
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, link at end of body: How should long I utilize Rejuvonus Skin Cream to achieve results? by user686331 on workplace.stackexchange.com
tpu- by tripleee
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, link at end of body, repeated URL at end of long post: this extract to their weight loss? by siremashelly on askubuntu.com (@ThomasWard)
tpu- by tripleee
 
And it works
 
4:37 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, link at end of body, pattern-matching website in body: Alpha Monster Advanced Attributable to the result by serryjakey on drupal.stackexchange.com
tpu- by Undo
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, pattern-matching website in body: It makes the ak garcinia slim by joye wash on apple.stackexchange.com
tpu- by Jan Dvorak
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, link at end of body, pattern-matching website in body: Do they know for certain that would by user71703 on drupal.stackexchange.com
 
@Undo any chance we could get the TP/FP/NAA output in regular search results, too?
 
tpu- by tripleee
 
@tripleee The tabs with counts? Probably
 
@Undo that would be grand, thanks
oh I see I already submitted an issue about that github.com/Charcoal-SE/metasmoke/issues/63
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title: Skin Opulent In reality there are merchandise that assist stimulate? by MelanyMalott on graphicdesign.stackexchange.com
tpu- by Undo
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] URL in title, bad keyword in body, link at end of body, pattern-matching website in body, pattern-matching website in title: ultrafinesseblog.com/clarity-loeil/ by smithersau on drupal.stackexchange.com
 
4:53 AM
@Undo I see duplicate feedback from you on that one ^
and none here
 
huh, interesting
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, link at end of body, pattern-matching website in body, repeated URL at end of long post: ak garcinia slim A few nourishments by user643193 on askubuntu.com (@ThomasWard)
tpu- by tripleee
 

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