Seery

@Tim we are entitled to our own perspectives. The difference is that you're imposing yours over mine, so i don't know how your comment is applicable to the situation.

@Tim OP's profile states that he wishes not to learn music through "practical" watered down systems of theory but through the actual and real source of music composition which is physics. Music is a manipulation of physics. You seem to have halted a question because your view of how music should be learned, doesn't subscribe to mine, which in fact has been highly encouraged in the last few months. It could indicate also that despite numerous comments agreeing this is music related and you still halting the question, this may be a pride issue of having got it wrong? Thats a rhetorical question

@ibonyun i've done about 80 hours of research on mixing the last 2 weeks and have a pretty large search history but the when the answers i find are not quite as specific, i come here and also to validate theories i find in my research. I spent a few months here building a music production research document and mixing is in the forefront now. I like to understand the mechanics of what i'm doing in its most fundamental principles as opposed to intuitive or "good enough" means. It allows for tremendous leverage.

@Tim Dialing reverb is no use without the understand of the workings, hence my position. The purpose of reverb is to emulate the physical parameters of a room. I feel no matter how obvious i make this, you're going to reject it so i'm not investing more time into this back and forth. I wonder if in your 7 decades, did folks attempt to obstruct your path of learning like you are now.

It's a shame lack of significant common sense leads to inadequate decisions. Unfortunately I should have spelled it out in further layman terms how this is relevant to music production. Physicists are not mixing engineers to be able to give a contextual answer regarding reverb. Either that's beyond your comprehension or you don't care to mix your muddy tracks. SE is lesser a community than what it could be because of moderator gatekeepers who are in their 40s putting relevant questions on hold.

Not to mention that musical instruments and composition are purely physics but this is your show and you're making a mess of the community.

This is absolutely ridiculous at this point. Are you going to vote to close every reverb question? Why would I ask it if it wasn't relevant to my music. It is mixing!

The moderator made it clear that my post was put on hold because i asked 4 questions regarding the same text and he suggested that i make 4 separate posts to ask 4 different questions on one piece of text. That would be a duplicate. The unclear penalty was an alternative to his own rules as his own rules of asking 4 questions regarding one text, do not exist. I have emailed the stack exchange team anyway regarding this issue. Thank you for your help luser droog.

Greetings, who do i approach about a moderator putting my posts on hold by citing me for an error that i did not commit in accordance with the help section?

Many thanks for clarifying!!

hey guys whats the name of the chord in the key of C major with the intervals tritone and a perfect 5th aka C - F# - G?

a yes or no answer is all i need

Without an explanation as such, can you give me a yes or no answer to if just intonation interval ranking ratios of consonance/dissonance is applicable to 12tet music composition.. this will put me out of my misery with the back and forth

@topomorto

Testing

Thank you for all of this.

Apologies topo, it just dawned on me that the curve is in 12tet so evidently it is applicable to 12tet composition. I am so in depth in this topic juggling multiple questions and information at once for the sake of time that i lost track of logic. Thank you!

@topomorto i also @ you at the practice room chat!

@topomorto my curiosity around the interval ranking is pretty satisfied at this point, i simply wanted a yes or no answer if the JI ranking was applicable to 12tet sonically and the answer seem to be yes it is. If you could answer this following question it would be of great context to me.. If i use the interval Major 3rd (root and major 3rd) in building a chord, are you saying that from that point onward it would be useless to use the interval ranking for the next interval in the chord as **the following interval would be measured from the root note and not the major 3rd we had established?

@topomorto "It would make no sense to use a JI ranking as it would only be valid for chords built on the root" When you say this, do you mean that since interval ranking is based on root to note intervals, that once you add one interval to a chord, the interval ranking would be irrelevant from lets say a major 3rd to a second interval? If this is the case, is there any formula applicable to overcome this issue?

@phoog would a sine wave graph be more appropriate to accommodate different harmonics for different instruments?

@topomorto do the vertical lines going across the graph represent the notes of a scale in order? and is the unison not in fact the huge increase but it is touching the very bottom of the chart? You suggest i use this curve graph you provided on this post as opposed to an interval ranking? Also would it be possible for you to open a chat for us as i don't know how to do it.

@topomorto in the ranking i provided in my post edit, it states the ratios of for example a P5 3:2 (The root must perform 3 cycles and the 5th 2 cycles for their crest to coincide creating consonance within a 3 second time frame). With that understanding and knowing that the difference between JI interval consonance/dissonance relative to the root and 12tet consonance/dissonance relative to root, being reasonably similar, would my JI ranking be applicable to my 12tet compositions. This is all intervals consonance/dissonance relative to the root and not other intervals.

@Tim i am specfically asking in this post regarding individual intervals and not how applicable to a chord progression but more so relative to the root of an interval. My reply to you was not directly related to my question but just adding context to your query.

@Tim It's not a case of where the next one sits on the list. With the interval ranking (which i'm asking is the one in JI applicable to 12tet sonically) i have a selection of levels of consonance and dissonance which i can later utilize to adjust my taste of how i would like to form my chord progression. It's not making the music for me, it's like showing me the colours of a pallet as opposed to if i could only see in black and white.

@topomorto you absolutely nailed my intentions and vision!

@phoog i addressed your comment in my post edit!

@dom in my next post i will attempt to use the appropriate tags and should i run into the same problem, i will inform you on this post. Many thanks for your edit and understanding.

I have made an edit on my post which addresses some of the comments here and also provides further context behind the question i'm asking.

@DavidBowling When i try to write the appropriate tags, i am told something along the lines of "you do not have the sufficient points to create a new tag". This could include tags such as chord, consonance, dissonance, etc.

@dom it would be my highest honour to use the appropriate tag but when I try do so, I am blocked and told I don't have enough points so don't wildly assume it's my inconsideration when it's the sites error.

@Some_Guy i'm working right now but will message you shortly!

@Some_Guy are you sure? I have tuned certain digital instruments to 432hz and theres definitely a shift in sound and in my opinion, sweeter. If theres no difference in sound why do you reckon nazi germany produced it as standard? I believe older pieces of classical music were in 432hz too.

@ttw thank you for your confirmation and reference to Ludmila Ulehla whom ill research.

@ggcg I never knew the imperfection of harmony in music until i started this project and it was very disappointing. I watched a video where they play chords in Just Intonation versus 12TET and other tuning systems and i was like wow. What a sloppy system we have going on, in aid of close to perfect compromise. I'm rather positive this will resolve in the future with A.I. tho as it seems to be an issue of practicality more than laws of nature. Also music in 440hz was made standard by Nazi Germany whilst 432hz is said to be the frequency of nature. A lot of fuckery in the world of music.

@ttw great analysis.. I read the P4 is consonant/dissonant based on context. I read that if the P4 is utilized as anything but a bass note/root note of a chord, then it is consonant and if used as a bass note/root note of a chord then it is considered dissonant.. Is this what you mean when you state "fourth against the bass only"? Cheers

@ggcg Thanks for your response. During my research i encountered Helmholtz and read his stance which was included in an article which spoke on the various approaches to consonance and dissonance from different folks. I may be hard headed but even to a relative novice like myself, i feel certain intervals levels of consonance/dissonance within an octave in contrast to other intervals are undeniable, meaning there is a pattern there and i feel that some intervals are so similar in their consonance/dissonance that this is the reason people can't agree on one conclusion of the ranking.

I believe we use 12TET to be able to play different scales within a single tuning but my question doesn't quite revolve around the difference. I'm specifically looking for the consonance/dissonance levels of intervals pertaining to 12TET so I can build chord progressions and compositions with the correct levels of consonance and dissonance and I feel folks are missing what it is I'm after.. the intervals and their levels of consonance to dissonance in 12TET. If their order of consonance to dissonance are equal to Just Intonation then my query here is satisfied but it seems not to be the case.

If so, why are 12 TET interval ratios for e.g. Perfect 5th 7:12 different to that of the Just Intonation which the Perfect 5th has a ratio of 3:2?

I was under the impression that the simpler the ratios/lower digits (2:1 versus 32:27) the more consonant the intervals

Thanks for opening this chat. So in simple terms, the just intonation ratios i've been using this whole time literally serve no purpose in me composing in equal temperament. Also, when composers are creating compositions they are in fact not utilising just intonation interval ranking but instead equal temperament interval ranking? Could you tell me where to find or supply me with the interval ranking for equal temperament?

@phoog excuse my novice-ness. I'm assuming that the ratios presented in the graph i posted are applicable to our standard equal temperament tuning, yes?

@phoog "If a piece in G major or G minor ends with an open fifth (G-D-G), that doesn't sound more dissonant to me than a major or minor triad. Does it sound more dissonant to you?" No it doesn't it sound more dissonant to me, i would agree with you.

@phoog in regards to this quote "an ascending major third is 5:4 while a descending major third is 4:5." would that imply that the descending major third is more consonant than the ascending based off its lower ratio?

Thank you, understood!

@phoog i'll ask you also, if we say that the most consonant intervals are P1,P8,P5,P4.. How is it that a chord with P1,P5 and P4 sounds more dissonant compared to a chord of P1,P5 and M3 (C Major Triad)?

@phoog in what way do ratios for ascending intervals differ from ratios of descending intervals? Also, when creating inversions of chords, does the level of consonance/dissonance of a chord shift and if so how does this process work? Thank you!