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10:53
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Q: Just Intonation > Equal Temperament "Consonance and Dissonance"?

SeerySo for months now I'm becoming increasingly frustrated with this Just Intonation versus Equal Temperament, so maybe with this question we can nip it in the bud. If we could refrain from "complex mathematics" which i have trouble comprehending and utilize language and simple math, it would be most...

You are asking for something that doesn't exist. How can anyone objectively state that a third is more or less consonant than a sixth? It is well established that the perfect fourth is sometimes consonant and sometimes dissonant. The chord C-E-G has a major third and a minor third. The chord D-F-A has a minor third and a major third. Yet they are not equally consonant.
If you're not looking for some mathematical definition of consonance as an objective quality, I hardly see how any definitive answer can be given regardless of what temperament is in play. Musical intervals do not by themselves possess strict consonance or dissonance; what may sound consonant to one listener may be dissonant to another.
I think you should read this whole article from which the GIF picture was taken sethares.engr.wisc.edu/consemi.html
Tim
Tim
I'm seriously trying hard to understand what happens when (if?) a ratings list is formed. How would one choose the next chord/interval in any sequence? Surely it's basically down to the composer, who will decide on other factors than 'where the next one sits in the list'.This appears to be more of an academic exercise with little practical use. Please help me understand the purpose behind it. that apart, it's probably the Holy Grail...to me.
@Tim it's a fairly common idea that a piece of music is a journey through consonance and dissonance, with some moments of tension, and some moments of resolution. If you look at this and other questions Seery has asked, he's trying to find a way to quantify those concepts. IF he could do that - and many of us have pointed out the difficulties in trying to do so - he'd have the tools to build quite a precise map by which many kinds of musical journeys can be made. You'd still have to decide where you wanted to go, of course!
Tim
Tim
10:53
@topomorto - thank you for the explanation. Getting towards painting by numbers, to me. Probably wrong! Trying to make music more scientifically? For people who know what the blend between one chord and the next, it won't be any help, surely? Without being derogatory, is it re-inventing the wheel?
@Tim "painting by numbers" - maybe, but most musicians do paint by numbers to an extent; certainly anyone who uses existing standard music theory (chromatic/major/minor scales, etc) is working within a range of "known good" possibilities that have already been laid on for them. However, it seems limiting to start with this idea of interval consonance and then just restrict it to existiing musical intervals - it would be a much more interesting re-invention of the wheel to me if it allowed ANY frequency difference, rather than just looking at a ranking of the existing chromatic scale.
Tim
Tim
@topomorto - with you all the way. It's coming over as academic but not practical, and wouldn't even be of much use to lesser musically endowed folk.
@Tim I guess people take all sorts of approaches - some like to have formal ideas, and see what formal ideas those ideas are based on, and so on all the way down; Other people like to just play it by ear. "Standard" music theory seems to be somewhere in the middle, and of course there would be people who see even that as too academic (or painting by numbers). I reckon it's good to have an idea of what tools are available - they can always be left in the box if they're not right for the job!
Dom
Dom
Please stop recreating the music tag. This is the 3rd question you've tagged with it.
@dom it would be my highest honour to use the appropriate tag but when I try do so, I am blocked and told I don't have enough points so don't wildly assume it's my inconsideration when it's the sites error.
10:53
@Seery -- the site is blocking you from not creating the music tag?
@DavidBowling When i try to write the appropriate tags, i am told something along the lines of "you do not have the sufficient points to create a new tag". This could include tags such as chord, consonance, dissonance, etc.
Dom
Dom
@Seery Those tags all exist. chords and consonance-and-dissonaonce are both tags used on the site. The music is in the process of being blacklisted and should not be used on any questions. I just made "chord" a synonym for chords so either should work in the future.
I have made an edit on my post which addresses some of the comments here and also provides further context behind the question i'm asking.
@dom in my next post i will attempt to use the appropriate tags and should i run into the same problem, i will inform you on this post. Many thanks for your edit and understanding.
@phoog i addressed your comment in my post edit!
@Tim It's not a case of where the next one sits on the list. With the interval ranking (which i'm asking is the one in JI applicable to 12tet sonically) i have a selection of levels of consonance and dissonance which i can later utilize to adjust my taste of how i would like to form my chord progression. It's not making the music for me, it's like showing me the colours of a pallet as opposed to if i could only see in black and white.
@topomorto you absolutely nailed my intentions and vision!
Tim
Tim
@Seery - now I'm more confused. The question concerns individual notes and their so-called relationships with each other. Now, you talk about chord progressions. Which is vastly different.
@Tim i am specfically asking in this post regarding individual intervals and not how applicable to a chord progression but more so relative to the root of an interval. My reply to you was not directly related to my question but just adding context to your query.

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