Scientist

I quite like the idea but I am busy trying to save my professional & personal life. Probably won't be able to participate much... But Thanks for remembering me!

@Wrzlprmft Thanks ! I will look into that! (In case another colleagues shows up all lost & confused around Chinese academia)

@Wrzlprmft When a given user starts shooting questions about China in comments I recommend chat in that specific room.

@Wrzlprmft For the while I cannot answer that as it potentially breaches info about me. I am staying anonymous in Academia SE for a bit longer...

@Wrzlprmft No, the room is empty and inactive at the moment, but eventually some new may OP come back with related doubts, and I find it useful to direct to that same room. Where also older users come back to add remarks.

I actually started getting wary about flag counts rather recently because I started interacting in another community where users chat a lot in comments threads (whilst chat rooms are kept dead). I started flagging chatty & snarky comments around and 90% get declined!.. I learnt each SE community has a different culture.

@Wrzlprmft Thanks! That makes sense ! There is a room I often need to unfreeze, because it contains a lot of useful comments to some OP around a same topic (working in China).

@MartinSleziak Hi, thanks! I will try some rooms next time.

@MartinSleziak Yes ! I have done this once. But a practical question: how to better contact a moderator? When I did it I flagged my own comment inviting another user to a frozen room, marking it with an explanation to the moderator. It did work, but raised my "declined" comments count. Is there a smartest way?..

Very relevant: nature.com/articles/…

scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2169730/…

People use internet and social networks for different reasons.

@StrongBad The list doesn't surprise me at all. I feel at least one of the listed users targets specific users with downvotes (and passive-aggressive comments) for a period of time, out of petty vendetta. I had that sensation from getting random downvotes for some time after I casually straightened this person up over some spiteful comment.

One of the best persons I have met while there is a full-fledged turban-yielding fella that looks and often behaves funny that wouldn't make the best impression around my family. Still, he's such a honest, hard-working, cultured mate you wouldn't expect. Cheers for diversity!

On getting an impression, I must say there is a strong cultural clash. I have had a weird impression about them based on cold-call emails enquiring asking for job and supervision opportunities, co-authorships, recommendation letters, etc. This is not how we approach peers in my cultural sphere! That added to cheesy selfie pictures and loaded political posts on social media doesn't make up for a great impression. However all Pakistani I have met while in China were very friendly and helpful.

@CaptainBohemian Apparently there is a a formal agreement over visas and close diplomatic ties between China and Pakistan. Given China is moving (again) to the centre of world's economy and overall attention, this attracts a lot of interests from related countries. I have also heard that modern job prospects in Pakistan, especially in academia, are not good. Yes, you will find many Pakistani in China pursuing degrees and trying to earn their metal.

I don't think this uncertainty around payment is so prevalent in HK where standards are more international.

I again emphasize as a warning that problems with salary payment are common in mainland China. Quite frequently, you won't get what is stated, for unclear reasons. I didn't ask, but my bet is that my friend gets 3500 rmb per month realistically out of promised 5k.

In my opinion, only earnings beyond 7000 rmb are fair for adult foreigners living in China. I wouldn't accept anything below 10-12k, but I am likely older than you. If you're going to HK you'll need 2-3x as much.

@Michael Of course, allowing for a huge variation in lifestyle and standards, I'd say you CAN live well on 3500 rmb if you seldom leave the university for anything, share a dorm, and only buy basic necessity items. This is the typical student life in China. You might save few hundred rmb per month.

About the zoo extra fees I’ve heard about this problem but I didn’t get that. But I didn’t see the zoo in Beijing. I had entrance fees ranging 10-70 rmb depending on attractions, and didn’t feel those expensive. But, alas, these things are expensive in my home country. I never visited the aquarium at my hometown as it costs the equivalent of >200 rmb...

@CaptainBohemian You’re probably right that the fee was correct if you bought from the booth directly, but still it’s not impossible that the clerk overcharged you. Chinese can be incredibly “resourceful”.

I assume he means rmb. He’s a Pakistani living in Guangzhou

@Michael My friend answered me as: “in China PhD fellowship is 3500”

@Michael I cannot really answer your question as I did not graduate as a PhD in China. However I asked someone else I know and will update here if I get any answer.

@CaptainBohemian I think someone was ripping you off on these tickets. I have visited the Great Wall and Forbidden City and found them quite cheap. But I had Chinese labmates with me so they'd know a scam if they saw it.

@Michael Good to know you found my advice useful. I hope to have helped you, and you will only find this out in the longer run. I wish I had done like you and chosen to take HK instead of mainland China. I think life and work conditions would've been so much better. Anyways, enjoy your opportunity, and don't miss the chance of visiting Macao and Taiwan.

Mostly to canteen food, 7/11 etc. Which is cheap and basic, as you describe. You found Beijing boring with no shops at night because there are actually very few shops facing the streets, which is an idiosyncrasy of that city. The numerous, actual shops work inside malls, galleries, and markets. Anyways, Beijing is interesting, but by far not my favourite spot in China. Better leave it for the money-diggers.

@CaptainBohemian I see, you've merely visited Beijing. Living there is a different story. It is a megacity with a blooming international life, however as a capital of a communist country it is dominated by politics and there is some tension against foreigners. Therefore you must find a foreigner "bubble" in order to get to know the area better. Actually the restaurants in Beijing are stunning, which I had the chance of visiting several times over with my lab mates. On my own I was restricted.

@Michael It would be nice if you eventually reported what you decided, and your final impressions.

We have an excess of PhDs and paper-producing machines.

My advice is, if you carve for a TT position, focus hard on your political-status connections. It may be easier straight from PhD if you publish in prestigious journals. When you start postdocing you'll tend to digress more from mentors while struggling to become more independent, and you'll have to rely more and more on highly prestigious 1st authorships. This game is hard and rather dirty, and the great majority will never get (actually get given) a fixed contract.

That said, there can be no rule. In my home country, most colleagues I know that made a smooth transition to TT positions did not invest in a posdoc. They had strong connections made as PhD students and had no great issues in finding a position. Many regret not having taken a postdoc, because that's when you get the chance of truly doing full-time research. But I think they'd risk joiining the postdoc jumping game.

@Michael concerning the postdoc vs. TT status, I'd say you should be very careful about your expectations on this. The details are strongly circumstance-specific, but in general reality is: Academia wants you to stay serving as a postgrad student or postdoc indefinitely, and leave TT and staff positions reserved for protected individuals.

Still, try out visiting and staying for some days in other cities in China, and you'll find out what a rip-off Beijing actually is. Rental was usually above 3,500 RMB for sharing small apartments (and dodgy toilets) with total strangers.

@CaptainBohemian I see you're still living in Beijing, right ? I find the night life in Beijing actually quite lively, e.g. around San Li Tun and some nice pubs & restaurants spread elsewhere. I wish I'd enjoyed more of it, but I was going through a bad bit. Also, as you say, public transport stops early (like almost everywhere else in the world) and one needs to rely on cabs. Taxi driver are frequently shady in Beijing, so I was wary of staying out until late.

@scaaahu Thanks for joining in. On the money issue: yeah, I totally agree in that it will be easier to save up in mainland China than in HK. (Given they pay you correctly, as some Chinese institutions seem to recurrently cheat on agreed contract & salary terms). However, from my experience I wish I'd tried out a contract in HK instead of mainland China, basically because of quality of general work conditions and life, and international reputation.

@Captain Try paying for a rent, going out for basic fun and eating out in a decent restaurant in Beijing, while earning a local salary in RMB. It can get fairly cheap, if you're cheap enough to embrace working-class local standards, which is canteen soup for dinner and never going out for fun at night. That's how I fared. Still, it gets way cheaper elsewhere in China, e.g. Guangzhou.

General education & civil mentality in HK island is much better than in mainland China, as also international academic reputation, which is something you should add to the balance. However I do not know how hard it would be for a foreigner to fit in, professionally. It is a tough land, but a land of opportunity for sure.

But mind there's also mainland HK which is considerably cheaper (and messier) than HK island. Also China is a huge country, where Shanghai is way more expensive than anywhere else, followed by Beijing, Shenzhen, etc, down not midtier cities which are quite cost-effective.

I do not know how to answer your question as I never actually lived in HK and I took my PhD elsewhere, not in China. I lived in China while working as a postdoc (i.e. no stipends to pay). However, what I can tell you is: allowing for a large variance based on area & institution, life costs in HK are at least 3x as high as in mainland China.

Dear @Michael : if you tag my name it'll be easier for me to find out when you leave a message for me here.

If you get here when I am not around, just leave your message and I will eventually see it. If you mark my name, it is easier. Hope this helps you.

@Michael I am not sure whether you get this message. I will try to invite you somehow.

Thanks for the moderator who unfroze this room!

Anyone visiting this thread might like to read: scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2169730/…

Consider consulting the Cheeky Scientist Association, and related networks. I believe I have recommended this before.

You will think more clearly when you take matters with your own hands. Hope you find a way of fixing all this. Good luck!

I am deleting my comment to this user's thread on his post, but I really don't think this is necessary for the poster to delete his own posted thread. I am doing it because the user looks overly distressed about it. @Buffy

Consider also the fact that you are suddenly popular among your male colleagues, which is not directly linked to physical attraction. I think that matches best with your observation that they seem to mimic your daily style. I don't know any men who take after their "crush's" dresses as a seduction strategy. In fact men generally take <30 sec in deciding what to wear. However everyone copies models.