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8:03 PM
Anyway, there are two kinds of people in this chatroom: those who have inventive gravatars, those who rely on SE-issued kaleidoscopes, and those who use color squares. And there are three kinds of people in the world: those who can count, and those who can't.
 
user19161
8:15 PM
@Robusto I thought you were talking about Pantene shampoo.
 
user19161
Pantene is a brand of hair care products owned by Procter & Gamble. The product line was first introduced in Europe in 1947 by Hoffman-LaRoche of Switzerland, which branded the name based on panthenol as a shampoo ingredient. It was purchased by Procter & Gamble (P&G) in 1985 in order for P&G to compete in the "beauty product" market rather than only functional products. The brand's best-known product became the conditioning shampoo Pantene Pro-V (Pantene Pro-Vitamin). The product became most noted due to an advertising campaign in the late 1980s in which fashion models said, "Don't hat...
 
Πανθεϊσμός είναι η άποψη κατά την οποία η Φύση και ο Θεός είναι ένα και συμπερασματικά ο κόσμος είναι θείος. Αυτοί που θέτουν ως αίτημα ότι η Αρχή του σύμπαντος είναι υπερβατική και διαχωρισμένη από τον σύμπαν, θεωρούν ότι ο πανθεϊσμός είναι αθεϊσμός. Έτσι, πολλοί Χριστιανοί θεολόγοι και φιλόσοφοι θωρούν ότι ο Ινδουισμός και ο Βουδισμός, καθώς επίσης και η φιλοσοφία του Σπινόζα, είναι αθεϊστικές. Στο φιλοσοφικό πεδίο ο πανθεϊσμός είναι δοξασία που ταυτίζει τον θεό με τον κόσμο. Δέχεται δηλαδή ότι ο θεός είναι το μόνο πραγματικό ον και ο κόσμος το φανέρωμά του, η απορροή ή η εκπόρευσή του κ...
 
Pa—hey! that's not Cyrillic!
Pavtheismos?
 
That's an N, silly.
 
It's Greek to Kit.
 
8:21 PM
Oh? Looks like a v.
 
user19161
It looks Greek to me as well.
 
That is the substitute n the Greeks are forced to use. It's nothing nu.
 
user19161
I once memorised the pronunciation of the Greek alphabet in Greek and also in English.
 
@Robusto I thought her name actually used to be Κιθ, no?
 
No.
 
8:22 PM
So that's a yes.
 
user19161
Yes, Kith.
 
user19161
Perhaps that's the female Keith.
 
user19161
Guys, this Fedora 18 looks very beautiful. Now both Windows and Linux look like phones.
 
No. It was a something I don't remember that @JSB wanted.
An aitch with a little curve under it.
 
@JasonBourne Bjarne Stroustrup will be so happy.
> I have always wished for my computer to be as easy to use as my telephone...
You know the rest.
 
user19161
8:25 PM
@RegDwighт You know, when I first saw this phone interface, I thought WTF, but now I'm loving it.
 
Are you McDonald's?
 
user19161
Jinx.
 
How come he never changes his name to Ronald McDonald? That would fit better than Jason Bourne. The real Jason Bourne never comes into our chat to brag about memorizing the pronunciation of alphabets, or to get whooshed by the dialogue. The real Jason Bourne never gets whooshed. It's in his contract.
 
user19161
Wouldn't the fox in this chat eat the beaver and the kitten as well?
 
raises eyebrow
 
8:28 PM
The beaver is like fifty times the size of the fox.
 
user19161
But then, the green orc would eat them all!
 
H-breve.
(U+1E2A)
Not a theta.
 
Theta-thet.
 
@KitFox Stop that! You know what will happen if you persist.
 
That's what theta-thet made me think of.
 
8:33 PM
Has anybody at all been noticing how few closed questions we've been having on the front page all day? Where are the meta posts full of praise?
 
0
Q: Which word sounds better, "special" or "unique"?

user1949899I like to know which of these word is better than the other. I think Unique sounds better but I'd like other people views. Thanks :)

Here's one.
 
Only four closed questions right now. Two dupes, two old as hell. I.e. we closed them ages ago, and they only happened to get bumped.
@Robusto Ah of course.
I knew I could rely on you.
 
user19161
@Robusto I have been thinking about this for many years. I might take a risk and give a weird answer.
 
I edited it before it could be flushed.
 
He deleted it before it could be closed!
The miracles just won't stop!
 
user19161
8:34 PM
Now I can't show off my answer!
 
@RegDwighт I know. What a brilliant invention. The self-deleting post!
 
user19161
But I wasn't joking, I really have been thinking about special vs unique.
 
I bet Martha's going to be pissed at him, turning himself away from the site like that.
 
@Robusto I guess Shog noticed my suggestion and forced his slaves to implement it.
 
maybe he read the faq after posting and realised his mistake
2
 
8:36 PM
Mar 19 '12 at 16:08, by RegDwight Ѭſ道
The default should be, your question is closed, and you have to find at least five people who think it should be opened.
 
@MattЭллен Stop trying to be funny. You know that couldn't possibly be the answer.
 
That actually was funny.
Unusual for a Brit.
The miracles, alas.
 
user19161
Also, that day I wanted to answer cannot be overestimated/underestimated, but the asker deleted the question due to an erroneous comment.
 
It is the Ides of January. Anything-can-happen day.
0
Q: What is the difference between "dichotomous", "binary", "boolean", etc.?

MySkyTo classify species we use a method called: dichotomous biological key. It works base on true and false cycles. In computer sciences true and fulse working is called boolean and binary is a 0 and 1 system (which is like true and false). what is the difference between them? Can I use term "Binary ...

I'd like this one to be self-deleting too.
 
Or it's not a joke at all. He really did realize his mistake — of posting it on ELU and not Biblical Hermeneutics.
yes you are right — MySky 38 mins ago
 
8:39 PM
BTW, when I try using "true and fulse" in my coding, I get an error.
 
True and Fulsem Prison Blues.
 
user19161
Geezis, how come nobody wants to hear my special/unique answer? NVM!
 
That's the full name. You can't just use your random shorthand like that.
 
@RegDwighт har har. like Germans know about humour
 
@MattЭллен the problem is not that they don't know, but that they won't tell.
 
8:40 PM
@MattЭллен Sure they do. Humor is when other people are in pain, nicht wahr?
 
Try saying that in lederhosen.
@Robusto. True, but there's a limit to how much we can spell out in an answer. — Barrie England 22 mins ago
I don't think he reached the limit yet. He's not tchrist, after all.
 
user19161
@MattЭллен I thought the Finnish don't laugh at all? Was it Mahnax who said so?
 
user19161
@Robusto Most of his answers are two lines.
 
I can spell out seven words in an answer. Then I switch to glibberich.
 
user19161
8:43 PM
Sounds like gibberish.
 
It's a trap. It's nothing like that.
 
@JasonBourne I don't know. I only know the xenophobic prejudices I've been raised with.
 
user19161
Has the private beta begun already?
 
user19161
Geezis, there is now a dragon in this room...
 
8:48 PM
@JasonBourne we haven't even decided on what the sign should say to be put up out in front of the place. So far we've only agreed on "storage".
 
user19161
@RegDwighт It's only private, not public.
 
@JasonBourne That's an elephant.
 
user19161
OK, so guys here is my take on special vs unique, even though you didn't ask for it.
 
Tween!
Too late.
Nobody cares anymore.
 
Fully grown adult!
 
8:50 PM
Shoulda been faster.
 
Sabrina the Teenage Tweener.
 
Mar 15 '11 at 10:53, by Robusto
@Cerberus — You're only young once, but that's no reason you can't be immature forever.
 
user19161
Many people say that unique is better than special, because unique is one of a kind. But I say that special is better than unique, because no two persons are the same, so everyone is unique but not everyone is special. QED.
 
Bullshit. You're the same.
Semper idem, semper fidelis.
 
Who you call infidelis?
 
user19161
8:51 PM
There is only elephant shit here.
 
Not if you look away from the monitor and to your left.
 
user19161
Each piece of elephant shit is the size of a beaver.
 
The Bourne Proctology.
 
semper pie
 
Life of Semper Pie
The Semperoper is the opera house of the Sächsische Staatsoper Dresden (Saxon State Opera) and the concert hall of the Sächsische Staatskapelle Dresden (Saxon State Orchestra). It is located near the Elbe River in the historic center of Dresden, Germany. The opera house was originally built by the architect Gottfried Semper in 1841. After a devastating fire in 1869, the opera house was rebuilt, partly again by Semper, and completed in 1878. The opera house has a long history of premieres, including major works by Richard Wagner and Richard Strauss. History The first opera house at th...
 
user19161
8:56 PM
@matt Will you be running for elections this year?
 
He only runs for erections.
Wait, that's Cerberus.
 
user19161
Geezis.
 
I probably won't
 
@tchrist just dropped from 71 to 56 on a whim. Within two minutes. Looks like some timing threshold was reached.
 
0
Q: Another way to say: "Evidences that show that..."

DignaI need to write something similar to this: Evidences that show that this method is both safe and provides clinical benefits support its recommendation. I would like to say it without using "show". I had "Evidence of that this method...." written, but I think that it's incorrect. Which w...

 
user19161
8:57 PM
@RegDwighт What are you talking about?
 
We're reverse-engineering the MC.
 
Massive Co- Oh multi-collider
 
@Robusto oh thank god for that question, we are fresh out of nonsensical plurals, having only just answered the one about attentions.
 
I'm here to help.
I narqed it. But it could be close for wtf reasons as well.
@JasonBourne Are you trying to say that Geezis runs for erections?
 
And back up to 71 again.
It's getting weirdo and weirdo.
 
user19161
9:00 PM
@Robusto He has probably run out of them.
 
user19161
Why must all the sites be optimized for your region these days? Can't they just let everyone see the same damn thing?
 
@RegDwighт Oh, you're rep-mining the MC. I get it.
 
@Robusto nah, been maxed out for most of the day.
So no work to do other than monitor a stupid "random hotness" number.
@Robusto well someone has to erect the cross.
And it won't be the Pharisees.
 
9:15 PM
You don't know that.
@RegDwighт And for that answer. Geezis. We should create another site in addition to ELL. Call it Popular English.
 
11 hours ago, by RegDwighт
@MattЭллен Yeah it's the only way to seek consolation for all the answers you put a shit ton of work into for 15 points.
 
Word.
 
9:38 PM
I've been stalled at 13,969 on SO for over a week now.
 
9:50 PM
What are you going to do about it?
 
Nothing to be done.
I'm certainly not going to answer more SO questions.
 
No?
 
What's the point?
Hey, on the plus side though, I am getting my car back from the repair shop tomorrow. After only what, six weeks?
I don't even remember what it looks like.
Must go commuting now. Bye.
 
Six weeks? How long does it take to build a new car: probably much less?
Bai.
 
10:41 PM
So "What do you call a person who started something that is later followed by everyone" finally lost to another question. "How to describe students who don't study hard".
You can't make this up.
Best of schlecht.
 
user19161
@RegDwighт But I am not getting that many votes, sigh...
 
I'm calling it a day.
@JasonBourne you only just got onto the MC. Wait 25 hours, and you'll be at OVER 9000.
 
10:54 PM
Yo.
@JosephWeissman I see a face!
This must have some Freudian meaning.
 
identity reflects a reflection :)
 
Hmm...
Then your identify reflects my reflection of you...?
A complicated metaphor.
 
user19161
I got another downvote today. These downvoters are nuts!
 
user19161
10:59 PM
@cornbreadninja Hey K!
 
Crack them.
 
(The simulacrum is never what hides the truth-- it is truth that hides the fact that there is none. The simulacrum is true...)
 
Heh.
 
@JasonBourne howdy JB
 
user19161
@Cerberus They probably scored very high on their GMAT.
 
11:00 PM
There is no truth...and yet something can be true?
A paradox.
 
A simulation :D
 
@JasonBourne how are you?
 
@JasonBourne 99 % even, you think?
 
user19161
@cornbreadninja If I am JB, you are KP, and they rhyme!
 
A simulation of...people?
 
user19161
11:01 PM
@cornbreadninja Well, same, which means bad.
 
@JasonBourne :(
 
(pdf of simulacra and simulation)
> The transition from signs which dissimulate something to signs which dissimulate that there is nothing, marks the decisive turning point. The first implies a theology of truth and secrecy (to which the notion of ideology still belongs).
 
phew
 
> The second inaugurates an age of simulacra and simulation, in which there is no longer any God to recognize his own, nor any last judgment to separate truth from false, the real from its artificial resurrection, since everything is already dead and risen in advance
phew!
 
It's only 108 pages.
I was afraid you have me read all evening.
 
11:02 PM
note that it's a very intense 108 ;)
 
It's still less than more.
@JosephWeissman I agree that the latter model is an important notion.
I'd say it entered Western consciousness fully with Hume and Kant?
 
So a cockatrice is … ?
 
But I still think the former model can also be useful in various ways.
 
well, baudrillard in a way turns it around -- identifying the entry of second-order simulacra into history with the industrial revolution
 
@simchona Way ahead of you.
 
11:05 PM
Huh?
 
user19161
@MετάEd I see you are into reading transcripts these days.
 
(the ability to fabricate "ideal" copies; the commodity's imitation begins to threaten reality itself)
 
Ah.
Yes, that is interesting.
 
@JasonBourne Sort of. I read the starred posts. I figure they are there for a reason.
 
for premoderns, objects and situations are still "irreducibly" real
 
11:06 PM
Yes.
 
Kant and Hume complicate this schema, but... representation still "marks" the real.
 
And yet I doubt whether Kant was influenced by the Industrial Revolution...
Consider this: copies of paintings had existed for centuries or millennia.
 
Right, but these weren't exactly for mass-consumption...
 
To play the Devil's advocate: a mass-produced object must have a model, an archetype crafted by a designer. So mass-produced objects can still be denounced as "false". In fact, this is what people do on a daily basis: they want hand-crafted.
@JosephWeissman Yeah, and at least there was one "real" painting.
 
@Cerberus well, right. It's much more complicated today (under late or "post"-modernity.) The gap between reality and representation is gone. We can't differentiate model from copy.
As regards "hand-crafted" -- I'm reminded of a story Zizek tells.
 
11:11 PM
@JosephWeissman I'm not so sure...is it not true that we assign low value to mass-produced goods?
Don't we all want hand-crafted?
 
Zizek tells this story about how "indigenous" art-works are often today informed by agents who visit the natives and drop hints about Western art trends.
 
Of course.
I mean, I know.
 
So that people can still be happy they're getting "hand-crafted" -- but it also matches the latest Western styles, it's essentially simulacra.
 
Yeah.
Once discovered, people will denounce this, too.
 
Well, it's a totally general problem.
 
11:13 PM
It is.
It is interesting to consider how perfect, straight, clean forms were preferred up until around the time of the Industrial Revolution, while the imperfect and the unique came to be preferred in Romanticism, starting in the late 18th century and going on up to the present day.
However, straight and clean have regained favour with many people again since the 1920s, Bauhaus.
I'm not sure which preference is to be considered dominant now.
And certain things have a little of both: having a party in an old, dilapidated former factory is now all the rage.
 
Straight lines with rounded corners, of course.
 
Which is both industrial and imperfect at once. The whole underground scene.
@Shog9 Waaahhh!
 
One thing that might be interesting to consider here might be the way commercial images introduce artifice into desire.
How the line is blurred between goods we need (to survive) and products/services for which a desire has been artificially generated.
(The global economic order itself does this on a bigger scale, of course: divorcing finished products from their original context -- the resources, factories, processes, people, etc., used to create it.)
 
0
Q: What is another word to describe a "Very Difficult Question"?

Daniel FeinI am looking a word to describe a question that has so many defenses and offenses to answer it, that is it nearly impossible. If somebody asks you, would you rather own Facebook or own Google? and to answer it you contradict yourself or you constantly have a response that outweighs the other, wh...

Obviously you've never had a human conversation, but instead stay on the computer gathering virtual points. — Daniel Fein 9 mins ago
That's the first thing he had to say to me.
Have we met?
 
11:29 PM
Wow, what a prick.
(@Cerberus erasing history; erasing the gap between reality and simulacra.)
 
I know I said it before but I'll be calling it a day.
Amn't I glad I stayed up for another hour to get engaded in a lovely comment exchange.
Bis morgen.
 
@JosephWeissman I don't know...is this new?
 
I guess it depends on exactly what you're asking. Late capitalism is fairly new...
 
@RegDwighт Yeah that is really weird. I wouldn't have seen it coming.
@JosephWeissman In a way, yes...but I'm not sure this is the same thing.
 
(@Cerberus There are several convergent phenomena that Baudrillard's pointing to -- cities, the global economy, language, media -- that he says contribute to this difficulty of distinguishing reality from simulacra.)
 
11:36 PM
@JosephWeissman Well, traders have displayed and advertised luxuries since Antiquity. Trends and fashions made people desire silly things just as now.
 
It is indubitably so.
The point really isn't about historical phases of the image, though.
It's about the way simulacra come to "precede" reality.
 
I'm not sure mass productions and media have changed this...
@JosephWeissman I can't seem to really connect this with your earlier statement about simulacra.
 
Obviously Baudrillard is going to be able to make his case better than I... :)
But one of the fundamental insights here is that for contemporary societies, simulated copies have superseded original objects.
(The simulacra precede the real things. The map engenders the territory.)
 
Superseded how?
They are more readily available?
 
No, by preceding them.
 
11:41 PM
Precede in which time frame or order?
 
So this is the heart of the lesson, what Baudrillard calls "third-order" simulacra, that emerge only under late capital.
(Exactly -- the copy temporally, even maybe ontologically, precedes the model.)
This means that there is no originality; it's all simulacra.
Reality is no longer under threat by the commodity; it's completely gone, or at least imperceptible -- indistinguishable from simulacra.
 
Then how can the original be preceded if it does not and will not exist?
 
Baudrillard says there are four stages of sign-order :)
 
Oh, dear...
 
> The first stage is a faithful image/copy, where we believe, and it may even be correct, that a sign is a "reflection of a profound reality" (pg 6), this is a good appearance, in what Baudrillard called "the sacramental order".
> The second stage is perversion of reality, this is where we come to believe the sign to be an unfaithful copy, which "masks and denatures" reality as an "evil appearance—it is of the order of maleficence". Here, signs and images do not faithfully reveal reality to us, but can hint at the existence of an obscure reality which the sign itself is incapable of encapsulating.
> The third stage masks the absence of a profound reality, where the simulacrum pretends to be a faithful copy, but it is a copy with no original. Signs and images claim to represent something real, but no representation is taking place and arbitrary images are merely suggested as things which they have no relationship to.
> Baudrillard calls this the "order of sorcery", a regime of semantic algebra where all human meaning is conjured artificially to appear as a reference to the (increasingly) hermetic truth.
> The fourth stage is pure simulation, in which the simulacrum has no relationship to any reality whatsoever. Here, signs merely reflect other signs and any claim to reality on the part of images or signs is only of the order of other such claims.
> This is a regime of total equivalency, where cultural products need no longer even pretend to be real in a naïve sense, because the experiences of consumers' lives are so predominantly artificial that even claims to reality are expected to be phrased in artificial, "hyperreal" terms. Any naïve pretension to reality as such is perceived as bereft of critical self-awareness, and thus as oversentimental.
 
11:46 PM
I'm not sure I understand this third order. It contains paradoxes that are at first glance...odd.
 
(Just in passing, this parallels interestingly with Nietzsche's five or six stage series entitled something like -- 'How the "real world" became a lie'...)
Yes, definitely! The third stage of the sign-order is very mysterious stuff.
 
@JosephWeissman So is all of this about people buying stuff, or also about other things? Can all these things be treated the same way?
 
I think he's trying to speak to the emergence of algebras and alchemies -- calculi of the horizon of being, of transformation...
 
brain creaking
 
(Exchange value -- and the gap between it and use value -- are very critical to his argument overall.)
 
11:49 PM
That is indeed an important economic notion.
Supply and demand, where demand is partly shaped by use value.
 
One point to consider here is definitely how and to what degree economic demand is simulated.
But the economic order in toto bears certain indications of simulation.
(Reality and meaning disappearing behinds signs and symbols.)
 
@JosephWeissman Simulated in what way, and to whom?
 
@RegDwighт Gilding the lily, I see.
 
There are definitely cases of pure simulation in financial capital, right? Where the simulacra no longer have any relationship to reality.
Some very perspicacious questioning tonight, Mr. @Cerberus :)
Let me grab a refreshing cola and we can continue this momentarily...
 
@JosephWeissman Is it from Colorado?
 
11:54 PM
I wouldn't be so sure. I think there is always some relationship, although it can become very small. And I wouldn't call those things simulacra, but rather derivatives?
 
Well, I wasn't actually thinking about derivatives.
 
@JosephWeissman Always. I must always have all the definitions complete, and I always want to relate theory to practice.
 
(They clearly do link back to something, right?)
I was really just thinking of the bubbles that emerge when everybody "knows" something that isn't true -- e.g., that the housing market will expand indefinitely, etc.
 
I mean it in the broadest sense, where money is derived from use value.
@JosephWeissman Oh, okay.
 
@Cerberus Put down the Smith&Marx, and back away from the table.
Or Wesson.
 
11:56 PM
You might as well have the Wesson if you're reading Marx, I guess :)
 
@tchrist If I put all economists down, who will study economics?
I don't like putting people down.
 
@Cerberus People who actually bother to participate in the economy.
 
@JosephWeissman Okay, yes, these phenomena exist. And do you mean (partly-)self-fulfiling prophecies specifically, or any commonly held but false/unsubstantial belief?
@tchrist They have better things to do.
 
The notion of a "false belief" is already pretty paradoxical -- a simulated belief? :)
 

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