@JosephWright For some experiments, I rebased the icc and icc2 branches locally again main. Should I push them or do you want to keep the branches in their current state?
Hi All. Any German users of cleveref around? If so, would you say the lack of declination in this kind of functionality is a serious limitation for its usefulness?
@samcarter No! I had no idea. And I have actively searched recently on CTAN for cross-referencing packages. I don't know how I've missed it! So it seems important for French too. I'll think carefully about this. I believe it is technically feasible to add a manual option for the declination (must actually try before I know), even if the dictionaries may have to grow a lot in size. Thanks for the link!
@samcarter I know! I'll never forget when I was there in a pretty touristic place and decided to ask a policeman for information. At the time I did not know French, so I risked English. He understood the question, and replied me, in French... ;-)
@gusbrs The wife of my former French teacher had this problem the other way round. She went to a French speaking school, then studied French and Literature and gave French courses at a community college, so her French was very good. The couple often spend their holidays in France and were proud that they could blend in with the natives. But one time they checked into a hotel and the staff would reply in German to her
-- she was pretty devastated (my theory: probably the staff just wanted to show of their German skills :) )
@PauloCereda Really, in a restaurant. The waiter was talking to me and somehow my brain "shortcircuited" to "a close but different language" and it just came out: "Gracias!"
@gusbrs I once had a similar failure in Italy: I opened my mouth to thank someone and out came "merci!" - that's not even close and only my 3rd language, so not even close to the surface of my brain.
@gusbrs I was in a pub in Barcelona and the waiter brought me some snacks. I was about to thank him (either gracias (spanish) or grácies (catalan)), but for whatever reason, my brain did some quick archaeological lookup and spotted that merci might've been a valid reply to that as well (but it's so very obscure to today's catalan). I then said merci, and through the rest of the night, the waiter insisted in talking to me in French! :)
@gusbrs then I decided to attend mass. :) In Madrid, I attended one in Spanish, so for completeness sake, I decided to go for a Catalan-spoken one. I sort of went through all of it, but I started giggling when I heard that peace in Catalan is pau. So I thought, we Brazilians, when wishing peach to one another, should give pauladas. :D
@JosephWright What do you think about making the color conversions a bit more flexible? I have basically two ideas in mind:Adding an interface to define new \__color_convert_?_!:w functions and/or replacing the current black fallback with a function which get the source colorspace and color values as arguments and expands to a new color (and by default just expands to the black value for compatibility)
@JosephWright The idea is that e.g. when converting from RGB in an unspecified colorspace to sRGB we might not be able to convert exactly, but we should be able to provide a better approximation then black. So it would be nice to be able to say something like: \color_new_conversion:nnn{rgb}{my-rgb-like-colorspace}{\fp_eval:n{#1*0.9}, #2, #3} such that afterwards, rgb can be converted to my-rgb-like-colorspace (which is a DeviceN or later maybe ICC colorspace).
@JosephWright The second part is much more specialised since I actually would like to create such conversions on demand between any two ICC based colorspaces, so I was wondering if instead of using black as fallback, a colorspace specific fallback which defaults to black but can be changed to depend on the source color can be used.
@JosephWright Which leaves the question how the interface should look like.. I'll think about it a bit.
@JosephWright I stumbled across some Lua code for parsing ICC files and converting between these colorspaces I wrote some time ago, so I thought it would be interesting to see if it can work with l3color. Especially since theoretically, converting between these spaces seems much better defined then between the device specific ones.
@samcarter It's even more complicated than the complicated I had already thought it was. Prepositions/articles also come into play, and that seems to be the bigger issue for French. I was thinking only of the type names. I have to think this through...
@samcarter Many years ago I spent 2 1/2 months bicycle touring in Switzerland and Italy (mostly Italy). One day I stopped for lunch in a very tiny village somewhere between Bologna and Florence. I asked for the bill, and it took forever to come. Finally a woman arrived, the daughter of the owner who had been fetched specifcally from somewhere else, who proudly told me the total in German (which I didn't speak.) :)
@samcarter I think the bicycle made me unlike any English speaking tourist they'd encountered before, so they concluded I must be German.
Btw, @PauloCereda how do you guys make to "quote" a previous chat message? I seem not to be able to find any button for it... Maybe there's a secret keybinding.
@AlanMunn And do you live in RS? Or just have the "title"?
@gusbrs When you click the down arrow in the beginning of a message, there's a link in the popup called permalink. Then you paste in a line of its own. :)
@gusbrs When you click the down arrow in the beginning of a message, there's a link in the popup called permalink. Then you paste in a line of its own. :)
@gusbrs The declension problem is really complicated in the general case, partially because it requires access to syntactic information and TeX documents aren't parsed. So some cases might be solvable and other not. German is harder than the Romance languages since the declension involves both case and number/gender.
@gusbrs @PauloCereda likes to think I have a football team, but in reality I don't follow any organized sports at all.
@gusbrs But a dear aunt of my wife used to support Grêmio, so that would be my team if I had one.
@AlanMunn I'm not even daring having this fully automatized in the sense of trying to parse the document and infer the case. I was thinking more of allowing to manually specify nom/akk/dat/gen for example, and provide the type names appropriately.
But samcarter sent me a link earlier, and an attempt by frougon tries to handle prepositions/articles as well, and that alone increases complexity a lot.
@gusbrs Honestly I think that can only be answered by people who write in the relevant languages. I have mixed feelings about cleveref. I sometimes use it, but more often than not I don't. But in my kind of linguistics most things are numbered like equations, and don't get a name, i.e., we write "In (4) we can see that..." etc.
@AlanMunn -- If you happen to enjoy Portuguese cuisine, but prefer juicy beef rather than overcooked shoe leather, it does help to know a few words that can communicate your wishes to the kitchen. "Muy malpasado" is very useful.
@barbarabeeton Yes, this is one of the ways that I'm not "gaucho de verdade" since most people do not like their meat mal passado, hence the name. :) (And 'muito' not 'muy').
@AlanMunn -- Plausible. One nice thing about the availability of Portuguese-sourced cuisine around here is that it's from such varied areas -- mainland, islands (Azores, Cabo Verde, Madeira, some Canaries), Mozambique, and (used to be) even Goa. But, as far as I know, no Brazil. It used to be said, jokingly, that the bridge going east from Rhode Island to Fall River was the longest bridge in the world -- the Fall River population at least used to be majority Portuguese.
@AlanMunn -- Which has the shortest scheduled passenger ferry in the world -- from the Billy Bishop airport (on an island) to the mainland. Passage takes no more than ten minutes or so, and it's delightful.
