Why does it raise the "illegal parameter number" error? Looks like a expl3 bug.

\ExplSyntaxOn
\tl_set:Nn \a {12}
\tl_set:Nx \d {  \tl_map_inline:Nn \a {(#1)}  }
\d
\ExplSyntaxOff

Actually it looks like that it's not possible to use # in any x-type?

\tl_set:Nn \a {12}
\cs_generate_variant:Nn \tl_tail:n x
\tl_tail:x {123 \tl_map_inline:Nn \a {(#1)} }

raises the same bug

@user202729 \tl_map_inline:Nn is not expandable: you need \tl_map_function:NN

@user202729 and also an unsolicited advice from someone who burnt hia fingers before: Do not omit the braces for an n-type arg, even if it happens to have only 1 token.

@UlrikeFischer Frank blames me :-)

@samcarter orange tastes nice, especially with ...

@yo' Why? Seems to work fine (as long as it's not an active character that expands to something else etc.)

@DavidCarlisle Naf off

@DavidCarlisle I wrote that it is a clear cutwin bug :-). But probably it is easier to change picture not to use \@tempdimc.

@UlrikeFischer breaks my pre-etex heart to add another \newdimen to the format though :(

@DavidCarlisle do we have temporary, internal expl3 dimens?

@user202729 Try with \exp_not:n ;)

@UlrikeFischer I did wonder about that but would trampling on one of those be conceptually any better than trampling on @tempdimc

@user202729 We document two places that it is expected to work: a) with \use:n and so forth; (b) with \int_compare:nNn(TF) and so forth. All other cases can be implemented such that braces are required

@DavidCarlisle picture doesn't trample on @tempdimc, cutwin shouldn't use it like it does. I don't think that picture should use l_tmpa_dim, as the docu imho says that the kernel doesn't use it. But perhaps we have some internal version?

@UlrikeFischer I could take to the team list?, I could use something else \@tempskipa for example that has the same status and just avoids the issue here although my preferred solution would just be to fix cutwin and ask Peter if we can send it to ctan

@UlrikeFischer No, I pre-populate \g_@@_colorants_prop with teh CMYK/RGB/special colorants (so None as well as Black, etc.)

@DavidCarlisle oh no

@DavidCarlisle ooh

@DavidCarlisle asking Peter is probably the best. We are now off looking some roman churches ...

@UlrikeFischer what have the Romans ever done for us?

@UlrikeFischer ooh Peter the Anteater?

@UlrikeFischer ooh

@DavidCarlisle ... dark chocolate? Yes, that tastes very good!

It looks like that even with expl3, TeX is still not as powerful as a "normal" programming language? For example, result value from a non-expandable function cannot be fed into another function.

On the other hand it can be "fixed" by changing the API of the function to assign the result to some variable, right? (like assembly)

@user202729 all turing complete languages are powerful, just some are less convenient than others. You can inline expandable functions and can inline non expandable ones sometines, so your general statement isn't true

Okay there are existing questions on the site discussing that

@DavidCarlisle ooh the bloke on the £50 note

@PauloCereda I vaguely recall paper money

@DavidCarlisle ooh teh bitcoinz

@DavidCarlisle we could come up with an organisation to have a common fund and invest in projects for the benefit of UK. :)

@JosephWright ^^

@PauloCereda it used to be known as "Paulo's credit card" but it ran dry and became useless

@DavidCarlisle oh no

@Szabolcs I stumbled upon this: mathics.org :)

How do I search for the main definition of a function name in interface3.pdf? Sometimes a function is referenced 12 times and iterate through them (...actually using PDF viewer's search feature isn't that bad)

The TeXbook has a underline and a italic (probably one of them is the "main" definition)

@user202729 1. The standard says so. 2. It's consistent. 3. If you (or someone who uses your code) ever change that to nx while copy-pasting, it will look innocently correct but be utterly wrong.

@user202729 looks like we don't distinguish that in the index, but if you know the function you know the prefix so just going in via the table of contents to that section will get you threre as they are in order

That's why you should understand what are you writing when you modify some code, to fix possible bugs that pop up like this / but yes I can see why you should avoid undocumented behavior.

Okay `cs_generate_variant actually work with the wrong number of variables (error checking is slow and requires more work to implement, I guess?)

@user202729 try it with debug turned on (not sure about that one but most such checks are only in debug mode) (sec 4.8 of interface 3)

@user202729 well, it works with less number of parameters by design

@yo' oh there is that as well, good point

True that (what's the point of that design?)

@user202729 speed. If you modify nnn to xnn and specify only x, it's much faster to execute. So nnn -> xnn is much faster in the end than nnn -> nnx

@user202729 not grabbing arguments is endemic in Tex eg you might document that \section takes an argument for the section head but it is actually a macro with no arguments. If you implemented it as a macro that grabbed all its documented arguments and passed them on to the implementation functions it would take more space and be slower.

@UlrikeFischer I was looking again at colorants: I think one issue is I'll need to re-think how to generate the separations for dvips. I'm going to look this evening

@UlrikeFischer If we need them, I will of course sort it: I think we are pretty close to being able to cover all of the other colour space packages

@JosephWright color namespaces getting a revamp? Colour me surprised! :)

^^ terrible joke

@PauloCereda why just highlight that one?

@DavidCarlisle oh

newstatesman.com/comment/2021/10/…

@PauloCereda sigh you don't have to look from Germany, it's pretty obvious from here

@DavidCarlisle oh no

@DavidCarlisle :)

uss enterprise launches in 15min

@DavidCarlisle ooh

Next: a duck in space

@JosephWright ooh

Great, they decided update TL before blast off...

@JosephWright because you can't access the object number?

@UlrikeFischer Yes, exactly

@JosephWright well you could simply leave it out on this route.

@UlrikeFischer True; first I have to unravel a few things anyway to get the data in the right place for pdfTeX, etc.

@DavidCarlisle Thought it was about Mass Effect #dissappoint

@JosephWright Somehow doesn't sound right. I would claim that I remember the original voices except it's been thirty years or something XD

@Plergux Probably: was the first episode I found on YouTube, but it's a recent one I think

@JosephWright Yeah. It's also too "crisp". It should look like tube TV :þ

 jbezos released v.3.64 of latex3/babel 1 hour ago

ooh the Amazon guy

Oh wait that's other Bezos

@PauloCereda so they can talk to the aliens

@DavidCarlisle ooh

@DavidCarlisle don't we need a fish?

Maybe we could install TL on a fish

Then we would have babel in a fish

/hitchhiker intensifies

@barbarabeeton ooh twitter.com/RNIB/status/1448303963774795780

@PauloCereda don't you mac people use fish anyway?

@DavidCarlisle got the wrong shell, they use Z. :) (and I am not a Mac user anymore...)

Just received a swag email. It's weird because it's for achieving 100k rep this year or since March 2019. But I've been above 100k a lot longer than that.

@PauloCereda :(

@AlanMunn <3

@AlanMunn I kept my MacOS running until recently. :)

@AlanMunn I got it too. I got also one in august for having 250k reputation (and I got a T-shirt ...). I suspect they are working back to smaller numbers now.

@UlrikeFischer Yes, it seems that if you previously got the rep but didn't receive a swag email you'll get it. meta.stackexchange.com/questions/358195/…

@PauloCereda -- And then there's Nemeth Braille for math. A whole 'nother kettle of fish.

@barbarabeeton ooh

@UlrikeFischer we/you/I could do cutwin (or Will has some other of Peter's packages I think?) but Frank seems keen on changing ltpictur

@DavidCarlisle yes Will has imho the largest part of the packages. I think one should correct cutwin here, even if picture is changed: its use of the dimens is wrong, and could e.g. break again if someone uses them in a hook. Why is Frank keen on changing picture?

@UlrikeFischer we stopped using \@tempa macro names when we made 2e and introduced \reserved@a as even tempory uses were tripping over but we couldn't afford to do that for registers but we could with etex and so could have reserved@tima or whatever, but I'm not convinced

@AlanMunn I got some at a random point: socks and a T-shirt

@JosephWright Yeah, I'm not sure I'm going to ask for any. The previous T-shirt was pretty low quality, and I'm definitely not going to use the socks. I'd be happy with another coffee mug, but they don't seem to be on offer any more.

@UlrikeFischer see mail

@AlanMunn I got an insulated hot/cold drink mug thing recently for some random reason

I got nothing. :(

@PauloCereda you could get a roasting

@DavidCarlisle oh no

@PauloCereda @UlrikeFischer could give you cutwin

@DavidCarlisle ooh I declare cutwin frozen forever

@PauloCereda no you need to fix it so I can't be blamed for breaking it

@DavidCarlisle ooh a plan

@JosephWright I think I have half tired eyes, but I think the sources in the l3backend implementation code documentation (updated as of today) is slanted (LM mono slant), am I right?

@PabloGonzálezL i've not changed anything - perhaps Frank did

Are \mupvarkappa and \mitvarkappa from Fira Math as defined in unicode-math serif or sans-serif? My eyes are having a difficult time distinguishing.

@PabloGonzálezL The sources are slanted for all the conditional parts (everything which is surrounded by docstrip guards and therefore only included in some of the generated files). In l3backend, that's pretty much everything since docstrip guards are used to separate the code for the different engines and the backend is of course very backend specific.

@UlrikeFischer github.com/davidcarlisle/cutwin

@DavidCarlisle so now we can blame you ?

@UlrikeFischer don't be silly

@UlrikeFischer do you want write access so I can blame you?

@DavidCarlisle ok, if you want to share the burden ;-).

@DavidCarlisle I see you already made all the changes.

@UlrikeFischer I wondered about setting up a new gh organisation but one-file organisation sem silly. I'm still tempted to merge ho-tex and rf-latex and one or two others into a general aquired latex packages github organisation where we could add things like this

@UlrikeFischer blame invite sent

@DavidCarlisle that would be probably a good idea.

@DavidCarlisle done.

@UlrikeFischer I hope you and @JosephWright are impressed with my deep Lua skills as shown in build.lua

@DavidCarlisle and both doc and ctan builds - that never works in the first try for my packages.

@UlrikeFischer and all the tests pass

@DavidCarlisle that's very reassuring

@DavidCarlisle github.com/the_package_shelter ?

@samcarter yes or /blame-ulrike

@DavidCarlisle the shelter could redirect to this one :)