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20:00
It was used as an example of a function
@StackMeter it's about function naming, discussing this ^^
Church numberals can add but they can't check the result is correct.
Grab your sharpest esolang, its time to go to war! :P
@WheatWizard when would there ever be an inaccuracy?
@Wezl No
20:00
like, at all?
Let the war begin!
If you have a blackbox function?
We have brain-flak cannons
@WheatWizard isn't everything a blackbox functions
Our skies will be impenetrable
20:01
next time we criticize someone's article, can at least choose someone who uses tabs??
@Ausername ready the brackets
Yeah that is the problem.
@Wezl Nah, that way lies controversy :P
Golf your ASCII cannons'
@cairdcoinheringaahing so I guess nukes aren't controversial at all :P
20:02
We have glider guns
If you assume your program is correct of course there is no need to check the results. But if you are given a blackbox function there is no way of checking if it adds any two numbers correctly. You can't even check if 1 + 1 is 2.
Regardless of your stance in tabs vs spaces, we can all agree that code golf is good, and I see no reason why this opinion is so overwhelmingly shared in this room :P
@WheatWizard apply it to 1, and check that that gives 3
20:03
Spabs!
Taces!
@StackMeter How do you check that it gives 3?
gotta ready my square roots
@Adám I call dibs on #
@WheatWizard apply that to -3
20:03
A greater than sign might actually be pretty food
* good
@cairdcoinheringaahing I'm taking !
Dibs Ø
@RedwolfPrograms it's a boomerang
There is simply no way to check if any function is a particular function in LC.
       /  /
      /  /
     ( *)
      =======
      O          O
20:04
I have 47,258,883 square root warriors ready to go
I'll take blackboard-bold-R and use it as a shield!
Apparently, Randall thinks ― is the best.
@Adám 𒐫
@Wezl Nice!
with thetas as their sheilds
20:04
@Wezl That's good defence, but utterly unsuitable for offence.
I'm going for quantity
Uppercase Psi looks a bit like a trident I suppose
We have glider guns :D infinite ammunition FTW
Maybe we could put a minus sign on a Psi
Yeah.
20:05
We need a halting problem challenge
3 mins ago, by Redwolf Programs
We have glider guns
@hyper-neutrino Ninja'd you :p
aw :( i missed it while reading through
@Anush I'd do you one better: a tag :P
anyone gonna talk about the square roots?
20:05
had to go for a bit and missed a lot apparently
@StackMeter Why? That's mostly irrational
@cairdcoinheringaahing if there were one
We can bash down their front gates with the wide arrow
but we have 47, 258, 883
The textbooks are armed for throwing 📚📚📚📚
20:06
good luck beating that
☢️☣️ mwahahaha I summon.... emojicode or whatever the emoji esolang is
@cairdcoinheringaahing cool!
@Wezl beta decay?
Zeta decay?
Omega decay?
20:07
@Wezl That's dirty.
There's a highly radioactive too IIRC
Not anymore, they're null now
So they decayed.
Although that should cause errors if anyone points at them
20:08
Surely, 💣 is the character with the largest instantaneous effect.
U+08 is the most effective character
We could use the pistol emoji but it's a water gun now for some reason
for some reason
A not at all politically charged reason
@Wezl Backspace? Why?
20:09
I disagree with the change, since it adds potentially very dangerous amiguity
@Adám It erases anything before it
@RedwolfPrograms But some platforms already had that, so it was already dangerous.
It's still not an official thing though iirc
It's just widely adopted
To prevent that amiguity
TIL epanorthosis is a word
@Adám The most powerful weapo...
*weapon
20:10
We can golf the enemy's numbers
We can transport supplies much more effectively as well, since we have experience with kolomgorov complexity
An extremely useful tool is "Khmer Vowel Inherent Aa" and other invisible characters, since they let you sneak past the enemy's defenses
(That was taking up a lot of space and I don't want actual whois data being posted here)
guys can I draft a plan?
20:12
Yeah, this is all just a bit of fun, there's no need to take this outside of the room
for fun
I'm too lazy to start a war
@Adám Cool!
@StackMeter Sure, does it involving beating the enemy with golfing sticks (or whatever those things are called)?
I say we build fortifications using A Pear Tree.
20:12
@Adám It's too powerful to be left alive! :P
@user no
It'll be resistant to any nuclear or radiological threats
We have Perl and Ruby on our side, which we can trade for more supplies
We can also fu*k with their brains
Then, we set up brain-flak around the area, giving us air defenses
@user you can probably use ^X+^C for this
20:13
APL can't participate in the war, as it may cause the field surgeon to stay away.
Clearly Jelly is the rations
We can destroy sumOfTwoNumbersWhichAreIntegersOrFloatsItsImpossibleToTellButWeJustAddThemAnywayAndHopeItWorks!
scheme is vital for plotting
We'll be fighting in dense jungle. Watch out for Pythons.
@RedwolfPrograms We control the Pythons!
20:15
@Wezl I think Scheme was actually called Schemer originally
Just sneak into the enemy's camp and parse some HTML with regex there. Then run away and watch the destruction.
5
@Ausername But only the small ones
@user yeah. There's also other similar languages with similar names
We can attack them with Splinters!
We'll unleash our robbers upon them to steal all their goods
20:16
Our spies can appear unsuspicious with smalltalk. Make them seem unthreatening with lisp.
I need to bookmark this later
Here is the plan - firstly, we gather our unprintable characters in order to provide some security. Next, we get our letters, numbers and symbols (the artillery and siege weapons, the mechanism for distracting the enemy). Finally, while they hold off them, we charge with all the other characters. It will be a massacre of bytes. As they run, we will chase them. As they stumble, we shall kill them. Leave no survivors.
We'll code booby-traps using Whitespace ― they'll never see us coming.
Release INTERCAL!
20:17
If you are naming functions like that then you really just need a language with decent typing, information like what the function takes, what it produces, what it does, and implementation details should all be expressed in the type rather than the name. See here's addition implemented in Haskell: Try it online!
did you get the plan
For a scout, we need someone who can C#
The type says it all.
The ancient glyphs of custom codepages will confuse them while we strike
Send them some of Redwolf's Javascript!
20:17
@RedwolfPrograms No good, we'll have to settle with someone who can C instead
were ANY of you listening
@WheatWizard Not always. It's best to have the type, clear names, and enough comments
@StackMeter Don't try to add structure to this, the chaos is the fun part :p
@StackMeter No, were you using Whispers? :P
20:18
> Do something!
@user Did you click the link? Or uh read the entire thing I wrote?
come on - if we were to do this, a plan is what we need
Can we not simply use a 2D language? They'll have no idea what hit them.
@WheatWizard No lol
@Adám Great idea!
20:19
@Adám Or from what direction
Wait aren't most languages 1d?
@WheatWizard I'm more confused now
Hexagony should do the job.
while we're on that topic, why not just use pxeger's 4D lang
@Adám Use hexes to put them in agony, sounds like a plan
20:20
it'll just break their brains into pieces
@StackMeter Even better!
If they send wizards, ~ will negate the effects of their magic bit by bit.
We'll send them to Malbolge using a GoTo statement!
goto hell;
7
@user que
20:20
@StackMeter Pourquoi parlez-vous francais soudainement?
@user It's a classic solution to a problem where instead of making the code actually solve the problem you express the problem in the semantics of your types and then declare it solved.
There are better (less goofy) examples than adding two numbers.
Ohhh, I didn't realize it was a joke smh
switch (strategies) in case they figure out what we'll do next
We can figure out patterns in their strategies using pattern matching!
20:21
Can we not simply use Prolog (or even better: Brachylog) and declare that we've won?
We can change the fabric of the universe this way
beats(Us, Them).
This is the way.
has_won(cgcc).
@Adám Only if we don't have to backtrack
20:22
@Wezl Shouldn't that be lowercase?
@cairdcoinheringaahing We'll cut them down if that happens!
@cairdcoinheringaahing But APL's ⎕DL (DeLay) function is known to have taken negative second counts… in the past.
@user but Us and Them are pronouns, so variables.
let's parse them with regex
Just use SQL: SELECT * FROM War WHERE Winner = CGCC
@cairdcoinheringaahing In a multiverse?
20:23
7 mins ago, by Adám
Just sneak into the enemy's camp and parse some HTML with regex there. Then run away and watch the destruction.
@Wezl But then you could do something like ?- beats(bad, cgcc) and have that evaluate to true
Remember to optimize our tail calls to avoid leaving things in the stack
@cairdcoinheringaahing replace their weapons with SQL
@user ok
Breach the recursion limit!
20:24
Y'all, we're missing the most obvious strategy: just bash em
Whenever one of them says "I'm joking, ...", they immediately merge into JoKing and give them extra mana
Cast them to numbers by mistake with + or ==
@Wezl I'm taking this too seriously aren't I
@cairdcoinheringaahing cut takes care of that
CGCC'); DROP TABLE enemy_defenses;--
20:24
@RedwolfPrograms I think you meant coercion ;)
@user We'll get to information gathering in a minute
A lot of our plans will be exposed since we're using global variables (they're golfier).
:\
We'll need to work around that. Mabe closures?
20:25
let's compromise and make the world immutable
It's an advantage - we can pollute their variables
so we can both win at the same time
They're using private fields though.
Using recursion will be very useful because Using recursion will be very useful because Using recursion will be very useful because Using recursion will be very useful because Using recursion will be very useful because Using recursion will be very useful because...
Hi there @ThomasWard! Totally peaceful conversation going here, ignore everything above
20:26
Don't forget to launch multi-threaded attacks. We don't want to be flanked.
@RedwolfPrograms I have Firefox!
Totally not planning a war
@user not sure why you're pinging me - I always lurk here :P
Oh lol
Lazer Eyes is a regular here :P
20:27
just don't plan war against me, you'll lose. sits with the controls for the orbital weapons platforms and grins evilly
MAD
@RedwolfPrograms APL has a secret method to inspect private values.
We can read their comments if they dare using JS
We can parse Javascript with regex!
@ThomasWard I believe you're one of 5 such users in the room atm :P
20:27
enemy.toString()
If they're using JS, we can simply sit back and wait.
@Ausername ... but not HTML, we can't parse that with regex without descending into oblivion
12 mins ago, by Adám
Just sneak into the enemy's camp and parse some HTML with regex there. Then run away and watch the destruction.
We can use visibility: none on our troops to hide them
is display: none golfier? or are they not the same
20:28
@Ausername accurate - it causes atomic selfdestruction and flames xD
@hyper-neutrino But they might not render at all then.
No we use some 4d language!
opacity: 0 is shorter and faster
We can move silently with translate
20:31
\o/ a mention of the rest of the network
> Spolsky went into more detail [than Chandresaker, the current CEO]
Yep, noticed that too.
Yeah, that tracks
Ready the Rail cannons!
We can move our most valuable cargo with ruby on rails
We have Flasks of chemical weapons
20:33
Wait, we can attack using Minecraft!
That'd be a good main challenge honestly
8 bytes in Jelly
Actually, I haven't posted a challenge in a while, so I might take that to main. Ignore that CMC :P
7 bytes in Jelly
I think I might know what solution you have (though mine returns an extra empty list at the start so it seems to be invalid technically)
20:40
@cairdcoinheringaahing Oops.
@cairdcoinheringaahing Maybe generalise to split on Nth first element?
What happened to the war?
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

binarycatbranch golfing: sort a list by number of prime factors Specifically, first sorted by total number of prime factors, with any ties broken by number of unique prime factors (remove this?), then broken by size. The list will never contain 1. Test cases: [4,5,6,9] -> [5,4,9,6] [10,11,12] -> [11,10,12...

@Ausername it got stale
DEADLOCK
20:43
@Adám I'm going for a relatively easy challenge, that still has a bit of a challenge to it. I think this works fine, and is clearly defined.
@SandboxPosts besides adam's comment, I think the scoring for this is totally unobservable
0
Q: Optimize imnotdeadfish

UnderslashFluff After taking a look at deadfish, I decided it sucked, so I came up with a new (and easier) variant of it: imnotdeadfish. As with its predecessor, there are 4 commands and an accumulator which begins at 0: + # increment the accumulator - # decrement the accumulator s # square the accumulator...

ahh i can't upvote that
vote cap :/
@Adám you don't really do secrets apart from the winning answers to your competition :P
those could be "customer info"
20:48
@rak1507 You could consider them "customer info", but even so, they are not really secret per-se either. We just haven't traditionally published them all.
they're not secret, we've just not published them! genius
Mostly due to the logistics, actually.
The person updating the website and making announcements didn't have access to the database…
I'm sure between the 20+ of you someone can figure out how to upload files to the site
Yes, of course, but we had more pressing matters.
if one of those matters was fixing ≠ I suppose I can't complain
20:52
And for the big competition, until this year, submission files had PII in them. If you really want it, I can suggest that we publish everything this year.
@rak1507 That is fixed in 18.1 :-)
@Adám yay!
15 mins ago, by caird coinheringaahing
Actually, I haven't posted a challenge in a while, so I might take that to main. Ignore that CMC :P
18.1 is going to have lots of fixes.
@user can you not do _ stuff
@hyper-neutrino Mind nuking that CMC actually?
20:53
Oops
@rak1507 Not when I'm reusing x, unfortunately :(
aw :(
Was never there.
What wasn't?
Actually, ROs can read mod-nuked msgs‽
20:54
yep...
Yes
They trust us :p
No we don't /s
Hence why I redact anything potentially important (on top of all mods being able to see it, so if there's PII or sensitive info, I will redact it first)
mods can also purge the history so that ROs can't read it
@Adám damn, now you can fgitw! although it might look slightly suspicious when you use scala for the first time...
20:55
@cairdcoinheringaahing also prevents mods from reading it lol
did anyone get my plan
It's simply this
I don't think we're really interested in this anymore.
Hello.
I just woke up.
unprintables, rest of ASCII, wait, all of Unicode, win
@StackOverflow It's 10pm
6 hours of sleep is worth it for good connection.
20:57
15 mins ago, by Wezl
@Ausername it got stale
Ugh I can't figure out what's wrong with my code, it's erroring
I suggest setting up breakpoints everywhere, going through it with a debugger, and then giving up and switching to Scala.JS
@RedwolfPrograms that's what's wrong with it
it's not meant to error
yw
just add console.logs everywhere
21:00
Frick
It's because tio doesn't support bigints
@RedwolfPrograms Your uncle's old-fashioned, I guess
0
Q: Split a list at the second occurrence of the first element

caird coinheringaahingWhy should you golf in Haskell? Find out here. In that answer, Zgarb defines a task: Let's define a function f that splits a list at the second occurrence of the first element, e.g. [0,2,2,3,0,1,0,1] -> ([0,2,2,3],[0,1,0,1]): Alright then, lets! You are to take a non-empty list consisting of di...

Let the FGITWing commence :P
21:02
@NewPosts Heh, I indirectly helped that question be created with my edit
@cairdcoinheringaahing How long should I wait to post my answer?
I will leave 5 minutes before I start solving this (I threw out my old code but I should still have the general idea in my mind)
@user That's up to you tbh. I don't mind if you go immediately, but others might
(it took me like 2 minutes to solve it initially anyway)
i'd say if you wait longer than how long it took you to solve it initially you're unlikely to receive complaints :p
21:04
My browser suddenly stopped working so I closed it. lol
i have written jelly solutions for problems i hadn't even seen in the sandbox within a minute before; speed doesn't always mean you presolved it so as long as you're not posting within 3 seconds it's probably fine :P
@hyper-neutrino Challenge on main doesn't allow having empty lists
@cairdcoinheringaahing ah, okay. so my 7-byter is correct
I presume I got the wrong 8-byter then lol
Cool, I can make my own room now.

 The Edge of Propinquity

This may or may not be a room for AI-generated text, images, a...
@cairdcoinheringaahing We're getting so many questions!
21:09
Even the URL number looks cool.
There's been like 10 in the last 2 days...
the challenge activity wave is going back up again. good to see :)
it was quite low a week or so ago, got to close to like 1/d (that wasn't closed)
Ugh I can't answer another question because of the 60s delay >:|
If I get smiped...
the 60 second delay was very fun when I was copying all 8 room owner nominations onto the election thread
Finally, got it posted
Also it outgolfed the question text lol
21:13
@RedwolfPrograms how do you answer two questions within 60 seconds
do you have multiple tabs opened
I'm just that good
:p
@hyper-neutrino just do it in one post lel
lelish
I'd like to know how one can run a Jelly operator more than once with the fewest loops
@StackMeter how
@StackMeter They might've.
@StackMeter 1. what do you mean by that 2. did you mean function
"fewest loops" is kind of ambiguous and you can run H twice by just writing it twice (HH)
21:18
ok
let me show you an example
I didn't want you guys to get disturbed trying to get as much inbox messages as I could here, so I'm doing it in another room. You can check it out if you want to. I already sent the link.
The imnotdeadfish optimizer program's output is actually really cool
@hyper-neutrino Your program doesn't optimize ! correctly
Mine produces much shorter output for it
+-o seems unnecessary :p
Man, 0:7 is a hell of a ratio, especially for a challenge that isn't that trivial
(and it is, removing the +- fixes it)
@cairdcoinheringaahing 1:7, forgot to upvote
21:25
@cairdcoinheringaahing I hope your question turns hot and spicy.
But not so hot it burns my mouth.
The byteenth Nine!
4
@Ausername Cursed.
@cairdcoinheringaahing link?
oh, upvotes:answers, not up:down
21:28
@cairdcoinheringaahing Missed an opportunity to rickroll everyone :P
i have no votes, remind me at 12:15 utc :P
@rak1507 That got me kind of confused as well.
Actually making a fairly fast brute-force-based optimizer for imnotdeadfish wouldn't cost too many bytes...just find the offset between each character, and brute force those individually
I suppose you could consider it constant time, since you know the time taken for each character will be within a certain range
I'm going to try that, just for fun.
21:35
@RedwolfPrograms that's... stretching the definition of time complexity :P
but I suppose it's somewhat true. linear in length if you brute force each pairwise offset
Technically everything is constant time, for a big enough constant :P
Doubt
Char array but I think that's valid.
You could do that, yes. There are a few possible ways.
You can use the userid-topbar socket endpoint to get new inbox items
And you can probably just scrape the homepage for the initial count when you start the bot
Actually that's not even required
topbar should provide the total as well
You just need to pick a chat bot library (or make one, which I don't recommend)
If you want to use python, ask caird because they know more than me about that. If you want to use JS, I'm working on making the library that powers NP/SP open source.
Here's chatbot.py if you want it, its what OSP and JHTBot use
@RedwolfPrograms 2 more I missed

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