The Nineteenth Byte - 2021-06-01 (page 3 of 5)

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4:00 PM

Oh okay

@MitchSchwartz I don't think competition is the right reason; the reason is to stay on-topic. If you've golfed it, it shows you know what the site is about, so we don't just turn in to StackOverflow 2 but with more algorithm questions and fewer typos

@MitchSchwartz The point isn't beating other answers, the point's doing the best you can with the language/approach you chose

yeah off-topic seems like a better explanation

caird coinheringaahing

We do have to walk a fine line between showing off impressive but long algorithms and writing incomprehensible nonsense, and we often choose the latter, which can be a shame

@cairdcoinheringaahing Nothing wrong with an impressive but long algorithm if it's also been golfed impressively

4:04 PM

While we're discussing this, like to point out that I answered a challenge with a JS answer 40 bytes longer than the others but which used a different approach, is that acceptable or should I delete my answer?

0

A: Render "Digital Clock Style" Numbers

JavaScript (Node.js), 188 bytes s=>[0,1,2].map(i=>s.replace(/./g,e=>[(t=(h,j='|',k=' ')=>(''+h).includes(e)?j:k)(2370+(b='5689'),' _ ',' '),t(104+b)+t(234+b,'_')+t(2347890),t(12680)+t(230+b,'_')+t(3704+b)][i])).join` ` Try it online! Not the shortest but uses a different approach.

no of course not. it's golfed

caird coinheringaahing

@user No, but what about if its golfed trivially? I completely get Mitch's point about not bothering to do a trivial thing when there is no chance of winning in the first place, I'm more disappointed about the loss of an impressive answer

You've obviously made an attempt at golfing it, so I'd say it's acceptable (idk what the mods would say, though)

is "of course not" for ("it's acceptable") or ("should I delete my answer")? @pxeger

caird coinheringaahing

@ophact That's perfectly fine

4:05 PM

well for a little more context, i helped the other poster golf their answer down, i thought that was a better use of my time, and it was pretty fun as i recall

@ophact you should not delete it

@cairdcoinheringaahing I think that should still be valid, although it's a grey area, I guess

@ophact That's perfectly fine. Again, the point is that an attempt needs to be made based on the scoring criterion. You don't have to win, you just have to be a serious contender (that's the official wording in the current policy).

What counts as a "serious contender"? within 50% bytecount?

I've seen that term thrown around a lot

There isn't and shouldn't be a numerical definition for that

caird coinheringaahing

4:07 PM

Hang on, lemme find the great meta post about this :P

@hyper-neutrino but then why are submissions like Crab allowed on king-of-the-hill?

No unnecessary whitespace, comments, unnecessarily long variable names, I guess

@pxeger Because Crab never lost a single match :P

caird coinheringaahing

from here

> A serious contender is a submission which makes a serious effort towards optimizing the submission's score within the chosen language(s) and other choices (such as algorithm choice or optional restrictions/bonuses taken).

Keep in mind that policies can always be revisited. If there are serious points to be raised about why the current policy isn't appropriate, I'm more than happy to see a meta proposal and consensus be made. It's been 5 1/2 years since the consensus I am using was created.

caird coinheringaahing

I've always understood it to mean an earnest contender rather than "the contender has a serious chance of winning." — AdmBorkBork Mar 21 '16 at 19:08

4:08 PM

yes

serious contender just means that you didn't join the race with the intention of walking backwards

@pxeger In the world of programming, walking backwards eventually gets you to the front :P

@cairdcoinheringaahing Based on that, does that mean that const f = function(string) { return Buffer(string); } is not a serious contender but that f=e=>[...e].map(l=>l.charCodeAt()) for a challenge about "take in a string and output a list of codepoints"?

@ophact indeed, I would say

^ It chose to take a different approach, but actually bothered golfing it

caird coinheringaahing

I often use the test of "If I showed this to anyone (who knew the language) and said 'Make it shorter by at least one byte', could they do it within a minute or so?" If so, it's often not a serious contender

4:10 PM

@ophact (the golf instincts in me are squealing right now)

@cairdcoinheringaahing If I showed most of my answers to Arnauld and said "Make it shorter by at least one byte", he would probably immediately shorten it by like 10 bytes or so :)

caird coinheringaahing

For example, if I showed const f = function(string) { return Buffer(string); } to a JS coder and said "Make it shorter", they'd immediately replace it with f=function(s){return Buffer(s)}

or, you know, f=Buffer

caird coinheringaahing

Sure, but that requires slightly more thought than just "remove spaces and long names"

Although I guess it's a trivial golf

caird coinheringaahing

4:13 PM

If I showed +5 µ H µ _2 to any Jelly golfer, they'd be able to tell me, within seconds, to remove the µs and the spaces, meaning its not really a serious contender

Just curious, what does that code do?

caird coinheringaahing

(x+5)/2-2

Halve?

caird coinheringaahing

Yep, H

30

A: Can serious contenders do more than the challenge asks for?

Serious contenders do not contain superfluous code I propose the following: If a part or multiple parts of the code can be deleted without affecting its functionality with regard to the challenge specification, the submission is not a serious contender. Answers that meet this criterion shoul...

Do keep in mind that if you want a readable solution too, nothing stops you from putting the original, ungolfed version in your answer too.

4:18 PM

I almost never do an ungolfed version, first I start implementing based on standard golf boilerplate (n=>[...n].map, n=>n.replace(/./g,, (n,i=k)=>i--?) then I write my solution while staying as compact as possible.

So I always get confused whether I used the variable name z or not.

I code in jelly so it's about golfing the idea/algo, not the code :p and once I figure out a good approach usually the first thing I write into code is the golfed version

caird coinheringaahing

Imagine figuring out a good approach instead of just trying atoms that have some relevance maybe to the task :P

most of the time I get beaten by a lot is because I used a bad algorithm (usually Jonathan or Bubbler beat me with a clever solution / some bitwise or base conversion black magic), though sometimes I miss tricks and chaining things (usually caird beats me by writing a similar approach but without being dumb)

@cairdcoinheringaahing and this is why I almost never upvote Jelly answers

in Jelly Hypertraining, Jul 27 '17 at 21:44, by totallyhuman

jelly is really just a game of atom hide and programmer seek

Redwolf Programs

4:20 PM

@NewPosts STATUS

hello there redwolf

From my side it looks like Jelly is something of a memory game. Try to remember the obscure character that solves your task, put a few of them together, add some standard IO boilerplate, then tada, 10 upvotes

Not saying that Jelly is bad, though.

@RedwolfPrograms You should join this room

:58197665 I agree

with !?

Redwolf Programs

4:21 PM

This is weird

Status is [1] 1 1

But the bots aren't here

@ophact Sometimes, yeah. There are definitely some Jelly solutions that are actually very clever, but sometimes it's just "mash a bunch of built-ins together and make a simple 1|20|02 chain"

caird coinheringaahing

@pxeger The best Jelly answers are the ones that cleverly use its most difficult and powerful feature: chaining. Unfortunately, you kinda need to understand Jelly to properly understand how impressive they are :/

some Jelly solutions that use clever chaining to beat the straightforward approach are a bit harder to appreciate though, which is why I try to remember to explain the chaining anytime it isn't obvious, on top of my usual explanations

(what caird said)

It's only if I see a seasoned user comment "woah, how does that work" that I'll upvote

Redwolf Programs

Looks like it's just the issue with the bots not being in the room

Nothing wrong

I've restarted them, in about one minute they should rejoin

caird coinheringaahing

4:23 PM

@pxeger Ah, I'll make sure to post those more often then :P

@pxeger What about a user that doesn't have a ton of salt or oregano?

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms Out of interest, am I on the whitelist (user id 274572)? HN missed me off when you asked for the RO ids a few days back

@RedwolfPrograms Maybe an endpoint on your website to restart them or even just to force them to join the room would be good :p

@SandboxPosts o/

Redwolf Programs

@cairdcoinheringaahing Yes, you are

4:25 PM

My answers are usually quite boring with the occasional multi-hundred (I bet nobody has ever used that word before) byte answer which looks completely incomprehensible. That's probably why I have never received a woah! Impressive. comment.

Redwolf Programs

@hyper-neutrino I'll do that today

i don't understand why the number of valid bf programs of length n is connected to any of this other stuff haha oeis.org/A025230 i'm surprised it would have connections given that the number 6 of non-bracket commands doesn't seem like it would be special

(ignoring the initial 3, didn't notice that at first, since i got there via search)

submit a comment: "number of balanced strings using an alphabet of 6 non-brackets and 1 pair of brackets (starting with A(4))"

Redwolf Programs

@SandboxPosts STATUS

Hello @SandboxPosts

Redwolf Programs

4:28 PM

→ 1 message moved to Room for Redwolf Programs and Sandbox Posts

Sneaky trick to make SP pingable there :p

That way I can get their status without cluttering up TNB

caird coinheringaahing

@pxeger Taking a look at some of my recent Jelly answers, I quite like this one (I've struggled with understanding dyadic chains for a while, and I got them for that challenge), this because the chaining with ¡ is crazy short and this because its a crazy example of dyadic chaining

RUNNING: [1] 1 1

[16:28:28] request: chat.stackexchange.com/chats/240/messages/new
[16:28:28] request: chat.stackexchange.com/messages/ack
[16:28:38] request: chat.stackexchange.com/messages/ack

Redwolf Programs

Wait no

Apparently SP just always posts its status in TNB lol

lol?

caird coinheringaahing

All of them are interesting because the chaining tricks to save bytes are interesting, not because the builtins themselves are inherently clever

Redwolf Programs

4:30 PM

@hyper-neutrino I pinged it with STATUS in another room

I'll fix that later

For now it's the heartbeat thing I'm trying to fix

the thing I like about Jelly is that the built-ins it offers means you're not writing up relatively simple algorithms, and are instead focusing on chaining. TBH, I'd find a 20-byte chain of monads just to do something that a built-in could be handling more boring. but unfortunately a lot of solutions are often just trivial 1|02|20 chains

or sometimes just too simple because Dennis did too good of a job so there isn't much to golf off :p

caird coinheringaahing

Dyadic chains are pretty much the only interesting ones because they're just so intricate :P

Honestly, a well crafted dyadic chain can be artistic :P

Quick question: name the Jelly built-in to calculate the dot product of two vectors without looking it up.

(just to test you)

I don't know it myself

caird coinheringaahing

There are 2

name both then :)

caird coinheringaahing

4:33 PM

d-overdot and ae-cross

I only remembered ae cross

Are they the actual names or are there shorter ones?

caird coinheringaahing

The problem with not looking them up is that they use characters I can't type :P

I only remembered the first one, and barely (I thought it was Œ.)

well I don't have the right keyboard layout

4:34 PM

get yourselves a Compose key

caird coinheringaahing

@cairdcoinheringaahing Wait, no. ae-dot, ae-cross is matrix product

See. Good thing about golfing in jelly (which I don't do) is to train your memory.

Another quick question: what does Ü do?

caird coinheringaahing

It doesn't

is that even in the codepage?

caird coinheringaahing

Technically speaking, if you're using the u flag, it breaks the chain and begins a new one

4:35 PM

@ophact not really. it's more of "how fast can I ctrl-F the built-ins so caird doesn't ninja me"

I'm frankly not sure how we started talking about this in the first place

well technically I need to remember what built-ins I have available but not what the character(s) for each is

caird coinheringaahing

Honestly, at this point, I should just reconfigure one of my 3 keyboards to type Jelly characters

@ophact we were discussing whether or not Jelly answers are interesting

perhaps I should set up a bot in JHT to train remembering the characters for each built-in so we can FGITW even faster without needing to open three extra tabs and ctrl-f :p

jelly as a language is extremely interesting, but many of the answers (i'd say even most that I post) aren't particularly interesting

but TBH, i don't find a lot of answers in practical answers interesting either

4:37 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing good luck distinguishing between the keyboards

@hyper-neutrino A neural network with 6000 neurons in the output neuron and a training time of 5 hours?

notable exceptions of course being whenever people like xnor or arnauld do some crazy intelligent golf with their language or find some super weird modulo chain that just solves it :P

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino That's the problem with a lot of the challenges here, most of them aren't interesting past the initial submission

@cairdcoinheringaahing yeah, seeing "(answer a) (port of answer a) (port of answer a) (port of answer a) (etc...)" is always kinda meh :/

but like, a lot of the time there is only that one solution

^

4:38 PM

I try to have challenges where there are several approaches or no language-agnostic obvious trivial solution

Most good challenges are created by the same bunch of users

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Sometimes they can be interesting. For example, my 05AB1E port of my Jelly answer to the recent challenge aimed to take advantage of 05AB1E's stack and its weird commands

my most recent challenge was a fairly poor example of that :p though the J answer does demonstrate that there's more you can do than just the straightforward 2^N! and i will probably bounty it tomorrow

caird coinheringaahing

But that's often interesting about the language, not the submission

@hyper-neutrino I tend to fluctuate between "Oh, this should be a really interesting challenge with no obvious way to do it" and "Here, brick my phone with answer notifications"

you still use the app? :scared:

caird coinheringaahing

4:44 PM

Pretty much only for notifications and to browse HNQ :p

Dear companies: if you design your service such that I'm required to speak to a human in order to use it at all, please reevaluate your life choices

9

I was planning to rename my Try It Online clone (currently Attempt This Online) to "Yet Another Online Interpreter" but it turns out "yaoi" isn't the best short name

11

(do not google)

lmfao

caird coinheringaahing

Clearly you should call it the "You Use Rust Interpreter" and only support Rust :P

uhuh

... ._.

4:52 PM

or "Lots of OnLine Interpreters"

@pxeger You should've bolded that so people see it before googling

Bye bye search history

caird coinheringaahing

What about "Here's an Entirely New Truly Awesome Interpreter"?

@pxeger Why not simply tio2.run?

caird coinheringaahing

Because that doesn't have a funny acronym :P

@Adám I wanted to rename it to something that isn't quite so tied to TIO itself

4:55 PM

@Adám Not pxeger, but I guess Attempt This is more original, and it's a rewrite of TIO, not a fork

Redwolf Programs

I like the name ATO

@cairdcoinheringaahing Pxeger's Online Really Neat-interpreter

Redwolf Programs

Is that the one that uses wasm to run the submissions offline?

(that's a bit of a stretch)

@RedwolfPrograms nope

rio.run is available for Run It Online, which is actually more precise than Try It Online.

4:57 PM

@pxeger Pxeger's Online Runner for Novices?

caird coinheringaahing

@pxeger Pxeger's Online Ready iNterpreter :P

Redwolf Programs

May 26 at 19:55, by Redwolf Programs

How did we go from voting userscripts to p*rn so quickly lol

CMP: Who here likes the color orange?

Redwolf Programs

Just s/voting userscripts/try it online

caird coinheringaahing

I blame the yaoi

7

4:57 PM

May 26 at 20:18, by user

@user Looks like talking about orange is a good approach

"I blame the yaoi" - caird coinheringaahing, 2021

onlinecode.run is nice

caird coinheringaahing

@Adám I actually like rio.run, that's a nice one

It doesn't necessarily have to use .run

Redwolf Programs

I really like ato

4:58 PM

rio.run is nice because it's short and looks like tio

caird coinheringaahing

@pxeger Truer words have ne'er been spoken

eio.run: eval/execute it online

Execute sounds ominous

Old pxeger had a website, E-I-E-I-O

caird coinheringaahing

Execute it online: if the French Revolution had a website

5:00 PM

And on that farm, he had a COW, E-I-E-I-O

Redwolf Programs

eio is a really yucky color mixture

Yellow, white, and blue

Then I second eio :P

Redwolf Programs

>:|

@RedwolfPrograms ?? where do the colours come from?

Run & Interpret Code Kindly, Running Online Liked Languages (that doesn't make any sense)

caird coinheringaahing

5:01 PM

Synaesthesia

Redwolf Programs

Apr 13 at 23:26, by Redwolf Programs

I have synesthesia and see words and letters as colors :p

ah I see

@pxeger Please take this off-topic conversation to this room

Redwolf Programs

Anyone know what chat heartbeats look like?

caird coinheringaahing

Your computer screen pulses

5:02 PM

No, I usually interface with chat via typing, not by connecting the socket directly to myself, so I don't know.

Redwolf Programs

(BTW, some time in the next 24 to 48h, NP/SP will disconnect. They will still be online, but not visible in the users list.)

caird coinheringaahing

I think they are something like sending an event where the key is just {'hb': {}}

I was expecting rio.run to cost an arm and a leg (being 3 letters and the word "river" in Portugese and Spanish* and several cities) but it's only £20

@hyper-neutrino That's good, because connecting to the socket directly can result in electrocution if not done right

Redwolf Programs

@pxeger Typically they only cost extra if they've been owned before

5:04 PM

@user well it's more so I don't trust SE chat. way too buggy, don't want to potentially compromise any of my modules

@pxeger You can get an arm and a leg for free if you're determined enough

6

(and because rio.com costs ≈£1M)

@hyper-neutrino I usually run such applications in a VM, although they can cause you to explode occasionally

@pxeger This might be a dumb question, but does your keyboard have £ on it?

And do you use "£foo" for string interpolation?

Redwolf Programs

For me € is AltGr + 5

@user here you go

Redwolf Programs

5:08 PM

Wait wrong one

£ is AltGr + Shift + 4 for me

Just Shift+3 for me

Oh ok

Redwolf Programs

So it's where # is for me

# has its own key that it shares with ~

@pxeger It's not working, can you send me a lmgtfy link on how to use lmgtfy?

5:09 PM

~ is shift + ` for me

^

shift + ` is ¬ for me

@user no that's shift + 6

(i am funny)

ninja'd

I was gonna make that joke!

Redwolf Programs

I have to do AltGr + \ to get ¬

5:09 PM

@hyper-neutrino sigh No you're not, you're hyper-neutrino

AltGr + ` is | for me

@pxeger That's interesting, I didn't think it was commonly used enough for that

Redwolf Programs

cough cough ~

(even though | is already available on shift+\)

Redwolf Programs

What is ~ meant to be used for

5:11 PM

@RedwolfPrograms I use that often enough (idk about other people)

@user nope, I've only ever used it as an extra keyboard shortcut :shrug:

Redwolf Programs

All of its uses were given long after ~ was on keyboards

@RedwolfPrograms Flipping bits

Redwolf Programs

Well except for /home/...

But that's not why it's on the keyboard

i use ~ for approx. in normal speech

5:11 PM

@RedwolfPrograms accents? like ñ

@hyper-neutrino that too

Funnily enough, unary ~ in APL is like ¬

Redwolf Programs

Yeah, but n\b~ doesn't look much like ñ

Unlike a\b`

It does if your vision's bad enough

I imagine it was like _ on old typewriters - you'd go back one letter and overwrite an n with ~ (presumably it used to be elevated rather than centered)

That makes sense

Redwolf Programs

5:13 PM

There are a lot of characters I think would be much more useful on keyboards (and ASCII) though

~ is still elevated in many fonts.

For some reason rio.run on Porkbun (domain registrar) has iowapatriots.com as a suggestion to buy as well

rio.run is basically river.run, no?

I don't know who the Iowa Patriots are, so that was lost on me

Redwolf Programs

Why rio and not ato though?

rio just seems like a derivative copy of tio

ato was original and kind of clever

5:15 PM

rto, maybe? Run This Online

Because it is literally for running code online. It isn't for attempting the code online, unless we expect the system to have lots of bugs.

Redwolf Programs

@user That's nice too

@Adám Which we do

Redwolf Programs

@Adám It doesn't have to be a perfectly descriptive name; everyone who goes there will know exactly what it's for anyway

rto is my new favorite, although ato is a better name

rto's a good compromise between originality and descriptiveness

I still think RIO is optimal, because it is both descriptive and pronouncible.

rio-run just sits well in the mouth.

Redwolf Programs

5:18 PM

It's too close to TIO, and it sounds like it has to do with a river

rio run sounds weird to me

I never pronounce TIO as "tee-oh" I just say the letters, lol. <== CMP what do y'all say

Redwolf Programs

I pronounce it tie-oh

/taɪoʊ/

@Adám rto can be pronounced yo (r as in iron, t as in ballet, and o as in osteoporosis

i do not like this

potato but spelled ghoughphtheightteeau

Ghoti is a creative respelling of the word fish, used to illustrate irregularities in English spelling and pronunciation. == Explanation == The word is intended to be pronounced in the same way (), using these sounds: gh, pronounced as in enough or tough ; o, pronounced as in women ; ti, pronounced as in nation or motion .The key to the phenomenon is that the pronunciations of the constructed word's three parts are inconsistent with how they would ordinarily be pronounced in those placements. To illustrate: gh can only resemble f when following the letters ou or au at the end of cer...

Redwolf Programs

5:22 PM

Ghoti is stupid though, english spelling relies heavily on context

Hi @rak1507! I'd recommend avoiding the starboard

@RedwolfPrograms It's funny and that's all that matters

Redwolf Programs

ti would never make the sh sound outside tion, and I'd argue that tion is one sound and taking sh out of it makes no sense

Even with context, there's a ton of ambiguity (I agree that ghoti is exaggerated, though)

I'd say the tio is one sound and should be pronounced shuh. Anyone wanna rename tio.run to shuh.run?

@user too late

I have access to an acutal computer pog

5:28 PM

I have no idea what that is, but congratulations?

thanks

@user something where nothing is blocked by an administrator, for i AM the administrator

@user if you're asking about "pog", it's a short-form for "poggers" which is an emoji indicating a positive outcome or excitement, etc.

@RedwolfPrograms Agreed, but if a British person presents you with a, imo plausible, family name of Oughough, what would you call them?

@hyper-neutrino I know what pog is, I just was too dumb to see that StackMeter meant something like "I have access to an actual computer. pog" :P

oh :p

Redwolf Programs

5:30 PM

@Adám Weird

caird coinheringaahing

@Adám I'd pronounce that as "durgh", where the rgh is the rgh from Edinburgh

Or Dug-hoe, because it could genuinely be either :p

Where are you getting a D?

@cairdcoinheringaahing Uh, the "rgh" in Edinburgh is pronounced "ro".

/aidenboro/

caird coinheringaahing

@user ...from the O on my shitty monitor

@Adám I say "Edin-bruh", but kind of

@Adám I'd say "Can I call you the Ouch family from now on?"

5:32 PM

I actually know someone called "Hughes".

caird coinheringaahing

@Adám Same way I pronounce "oeuf", but with a "h" instead of an "f"

@Adám How would you pronounce it?

⍨

Sounds like Ow! Gggguh. Ow! Gggguh.

I wonder what the public library's kids' programme is called in the large town directly west of London… Reading Reading?

(The town is called /redding/, btw.)

5:35 PM

@Adám lel

smh they pronounced "Read" in the infinitive "Reading" wrong.

caird coinheringaahing

@Adám What about when they make it a shade of scarlet? Red Reading Reading?

Which of course, rhymes with lead leading leading

English Pronunciation - "The Chaos" by Dr. Gerard Nolst Trenité

3

read rhymes with red and lead but not lead but read rhymes with lead but not lead or led

caird coinheringaahing

> Uses ophact's observation, that for any , it is sufficient to yield the 4 equations

[Math Processing Error]

Mathematical genius there by ophact :P

5:45 PM

rto.run seems a bit of a tautology though

Run This Online dot Run

Too bad r.io is gone.

and it would cost bazillions probably

runit.online is available, only £280.77...

Wait, there's a .online tld?

yep

5:47 PM

yup

yap?

all sorts of weird ones exist

Porkbun doesn't offer it.

like .codes, which sounds like it was invented by a 9 year old learning to progrram

or .off, which is reserved for a company called Off! which makes DEET-based insect repellent

such a wasted opportunity

wait they have a TLD just for that??

5:50 PM

fuck.off would have sold for millions

2

@hyper-neutrino apparently

ICANN clearly went through a phase of offering branded TLDs to anyone willing to pay

ICANN is to TLDs what The Unicode Consortium is to emoji ― running out of actual work to do and beginning to just make random stuff up.

I appreciate the ~~em dash~~ "horizontal bar"

It is an em dash.

Its Unicode character name is apparently Horizontal Bar

This is a horizontal bar: ―

5:53 PM

@pxeger bro I wanna put some memes on the f**k.off site

>>> unicodedata.name("―")
'HORIZONTAL BAR'

@Adám well, I always saw it as a 60 second trial...

@Adám they appear to be the same character

@pxeger you win the internet today

@pxeger I get ¦

5:54 PM

Here's an em dash: —

@Neil My key is labelled as such, but it doesn't actually get typed - weird. (I'm using the GB keyboard layout with X11 on Linux)

@pxeger then what's the EN dash

@pxeger Oh, you're right.

@StackMeter –

@StackMeter –

—――—―————――——―—―—――—――———――—――———――—――――——―——————―――—―――—――—――――—―――——―——――—――———――——―——

marginally smaller

5:56 PM

@pxeger no that's a macron afaict

nope

>>> unicodedata.name("–")
'EN DASH'

I've been using the horizontal bar all this time. There's a mistake in my keyboard layout!

isn't the macron near the top?

rip

Macron: ¯

5:57 PM

which is why people use it in ASCII art challenges despite it not being ascii :/

@rak1507 are you sure that that isn't the underscore

@StackMeter yes

Proper minus: ‒

@pxeger then what is the underscore?

Unicode should never have added any characters that looked the same. Total mistake.

@StackMeter _

5:58 PM

;s

@pxeger Uh, Capital Greek Alpha, Latin A, and Cyrillic A?

look them up in your Python shell

so we have the macron, the hyphen, the dash, the underscore, the em dash, and the en dash?

@Adám yep - all should be equivalent. No reason why any distinction is needed

@StackMeter and the Horizontal Bar™

@pxeger There are really good reasons.

5:59 PM

@pxeger Capitalisation would be messed up without them

I know what I'm reassigning my math.py commands to then

@user wdym

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Jun '211

The Nineteenth Byte

The Nineteenth Byte: General discussion for codegolf.stackexc...

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