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6:00 PM
iirc there are Greek letters that look like Latin letters lowercased, but different uppercased
 
@user It is especially messed up because Unicode didn't separate normal I from Turkic I and ditto for the lowercase.
 
Homoglyphs are annoying but they're a necessary evil imo
@Adám Oh lol
 
@user I presume they mean that "A".lower() could be a or α
 
If by "they" you mean me, and you were talking to StackMeter, then yes
 
@user But then what about the distinction between ENGLISH INDEFINITE ARTICLE A and ENGLISH FINAL LETTER OF TITLE OF CHART-TOPPING VILLAGE PEOPLE SONG
 
6:01 PM
@pxeger I'm gonna use that at some point
 
@pxeger Wait what
 
@pxeger Should 3 lowercase to з?
 
When I look up "ENGLISH FINAL LETTER OF TITLE OF CHART-TOPPING VILLAGE PEOPLE SONG", I don't get any meaningful results
 
@user well, the meaning of A in A bagel is completely different form the meaning of A in YMCA
 
Okay?
 
6:03 PM
@pxeger Yes, but that's literally literally how English works.
 
it was a joke
 
Oh ok
 
@Adám no
it don't lowercase
do not ask me why I know that
 
@StackMeter It does in Russian.
Ze (З з; italics: З з) is a letter of the Cyrillic script. It commonly represents the voiced alveolar fricative /z/, like the pronunciation of ⟨z⟩ in "zebra". Ze is romanized using the Latin letter ⟨z⟩. The shape of Ze is very similar to the Arabic numeral three ⟨3⟩, and should not be confused with the Cyrillic letter E ⟨Э⟩. == History and shape == Ze is derived from the Greek letter Zeta (Ζ ζ). In the Early Cyrillic alphabet its name was землꙗ (zemlja), meaning "earth". The shape of the letter originally looked similar to a Greek or Latin letter Z with a tail on the bottom (ꙁ). Though a majuscule...
 
GET TO З CHOPPAA
 
6:05 PM
It's a 3
 
And in Dutch, the uppercase of ÿ is IJ
 
or how the lowercase of ẞ is ss
(sometimes)
 
I can't do it
it don't work
 
@pxeger No, never. The uppercase of ẞ is sometimes SS, though.
 
@StackMeter what
@Adám yeah that's what I meant
My German is rusty
 
6:07 PM
@pxeger I said what I said
it don't work
in Python, it quits
 
@StackMeter what is "it"
 
the prgogram lowercasing ẞ and friends
 
$ python
...
>>> 'ẞ'.lower()
'ẞ'
 
@pxeger Looks like a bug to me. APL:
      ⎕c'ẞ'
ß
 
then why doesn't this work
````print(ord(("ẞ".lower)))````
 
6:10 PM
you need parens after .lower
@Adám that's the same?
 
@pxeger No, Python returned the char unmodified.
 
oh there's a difference, I didn't even notice
that's probably the source of the confusion
@Adám Python didn't actually do that. I didn't copy and paste; I typed it out because I thought they were the same
 
@pxeger Cheater.
 
well they're really close to indistinguishable for me
I'm using quite a small screen though tbf
 
Pretty clear in the screenshot, no?
 
6:13 PM
so the lower case of ẞ is ẞ, so it's not ss, and thus you lied to me
 
@Adám yes
 
I feel betrayed
 
@StackMeter I didn't lie; I was wrong
different
 
ok
let us test it with the other ß
 
What do you mean?
 
6:14 PM
well, I tried it, and unless the ASCII code of "ss" is 223, you are wrong
 
Unicode specifies various ways to case map.
There are modes that preserve length, and modes that allow changing length.
Also, relevant:
10
Q: Case-fold German

AdámGiven a German string and an indication of a case (lower/upper/title), fold the string to that case. Specifications Input will consist only of a–z plus äöüß-,.;:!?'" in uppercase and/or lowercase. The target case may be taken as any three unique values (please specify what they are) of a consist...

 
Why does title case ß go to Ss
 
6:35 PM
Because it is really a double-letter, so the first half of it is upper.
 
oh ok
That actually makes sense upon thinking about it
based on letters: CMQ: letter(s) you could go without, and why - most creative answer will get starred.
 
and why?
 
Always k or s
 
c kan be kompletely replased with s and k
 
6:38 PM
ok
 
@StackMeter x: always ks or ct or z
 
nice
 
@StackMeter q: basically just k
 
these are very logical answers that make legitimate sense
I was looking for the memes tho
 
6:39 PM
e as it is not good
 
ok
any more
 
@StackMeter all apart from i en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iota_and_Jot
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing nope
 
/because I was thinking about making a CMC where you bet letters to go without, and you can call, raise or fold (where raising involves giving up at least one more letter
 
6:41 PM
@StackMeter x, k, or q
 
@StackMeter x can always be replaced with ex
 
can't make it easy for you
 
:58199698 I raise with a, b, d and f
 
this is likely to generate a lot of clutter or barely readable messages so I have moved it into a new room for y'all
 
6:48 PM
Smart call :P
 
thanks
probably best
 
7:12 PM
@hyper-neutrino Flag messages don't allow for markdown, do they?
 
guys - the first round of letter poker is starting, come watch
 
if you mean flags on main site, it seems they do allow it
probably the same format as comments
also wait does this let me farm infinite helpful flags in theory? (I just retracted my own flag but like in theory)
 
Guess it doesn't support [tag:style-markdown] then
@hyper-neutrino I don't think so
 
@hyper-neutrino Imma flag this ;P
 
Mods can't get Marshal or Deputy, because they can't get helpful flags IIRC
 
7:15 PM
just confirmed, I can raise and validate my own flag and it will add to my helpful flag count...
 
@StackMeter Is it okay if I go back to before HN mentioned images?
 
@user too late, the round has started
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing But what about when HN is unmodified?
 
@user they will get it
 
@hyper-neutrino Oh, I guess that might be how mods get Marshal after they step down, as you just can't get those badges while mod
 
7:17 PM
would seem like it
 
IIRC Monica noticed she was fired because she received the Marshal badge
 
if anyone notices they were fired for any reason other than that they were told that they were fired (and why) that raises many red flags :/
but okay, i see
 
@hyper-neutrino Pun intended?
 
not particularly but I did notice before I sent it and didn't bother rewording
 
@hyper-neutrino I mean yeah. But of all the shit that happened around that, the way Monica found out is like the least worst
 
7:19 PM
That's true
 
It's a bit like going "Hey, I killed your puppy" but instead of telling someone, you just send them a bitmoji of that. Like, that's not a great way, but there's so much worse to unpack there :P
 
that's... an interesting analogy
 
Yeah :/ TBH I don't think anyone's found a "good" analogy for what happened with Monica, or anything around that
I cleared that star; we don't need that on the starboard
 
I wanna know how to convert ASCII to binary but it uses 6 and 9
do not question why
 
step 1: convert to bytes
step 2: convert to binary
step 3: s/0/6
step 4: s/1/9
step 5: profit
 
7:29 PM
Jelly, 6 bytes
 
lol, having a deleted answer edited down to "reduce clutter"
 
CMP: "string" or 'string' (Python)
 
@hyper-neutrino '''string'''
or r'string'
 
@hyper-neutrino “string”, preferably “string when I can
 
I prefer to use str().join(map(chr, [1, 2, 3]))
 
7:40 PM
def f():
    for i in [1, 2, 3]: yield i
print(end = str().join(map(chr, list(f()) + [10])))
Clearly superior
 
@hyper-neutrino part of me says '' because it's 1 fewer keystroke, but part of me says "" because ' is really an apostrophe
 
*removes the incorrect part*
 
@hyper-neutrino I always forget nilad constructors like that exist
 
Guys, I just found a really easy to make the string 'str' in Python! All you need to do is type(str(1447)).__name__! This'll save me so many keystrokes in the future
 
@Adám that video is brilliant. Same energy as this gem: youtube.com/watch?v=A8zWWp0akUU
 
7:44 PM
i tend to do the thing they sort of want you to do where you use single quotes except you use double quotes instead of escaping single quotes
 
@user ...afraid to ask what you did before
 
>;)
@hyper-neutrino The Java programmer in me wants "string", and the Python programmer in me is too scared of snakes and snake-like objects to deal with Python strings (or strings in any language)
 
i like to use "" possibly because Java was one of the first languages i learned more seriously
 
@hyper-neutrino Either is acceptable. Languages that require one (looking at you Add++) are bad
 
'' still feels like character literal to me
also having to use both quotes is weird. it's a single character; there's no ambiguity as to the length of it, the second ' is totally extraneous
 
7:47 PM
mwahahas in scheme (#\ literals ftw)
 
schemes in mwahaha
 
' is also really handy for primes, which I make heavy use of (in functional programming without mutation)
 
and yeah ot
s always so weird when character literals use two single quotes
 
@hyper-neutrino I pronounce it "Try It Online!"
bah, I misclicked and that replied to the wrong message
 
i was about to ask
 
7:49 PM
@hyper-neutrino How about this?
class ing:
  def __init__(self):
    print(str().join([*type(str(1447)).__name__, type(self).__name__]))

ing()
 
i was gonna code something far more cursed but didn't want to waste too much time
 
@Wezl Those are annoying
@hyper-neutrino What was it going to utilize?
 
was gonna make an integer, character, and string class, an int to char converter, an integer factory, an integer stream class, a string builder class, etc
 
@user May I ask why?
 
I would like to waste time on it, since my brain's malfunctioning today anyway
@Wezl No real reason, just don't like not having the character be between ''s
@hyper-neutrino How is that cursed? That is very idiomatic in Java.
 
7:51 PM
I think you answered your own question
 
lOl
 
@user Excuse me, how is that idomatic? He doesn't even have a factory factory?
And, tbh, if you don't have a factory factory Factory, are you even coding Java?
 
@pxeger huh, you're right. (I actually had to look this up, since I've redefined my AltGr to be the more useful Compose key, and I can still type the Euro using AltGr, E, =)
 
you need a factory to produce your infinite chain of factories
 
Here's a checklist for whether or not you should do something in Java:
1. Is it verbose? If yes, continue on. If not, add some meaningless words to all your classes and methods.
2. Does it have at least 2 factories and/or builders? If not, make sure you add some design patterns. A `BuilderFactoryProviderAdapter` is best.
3. Does it have enough abstraction? Make sure you don't get too abstract, because then some might think you're an FP programmer, and we don't want that. But make sure it's just abstract enough that no one understands anything.
Damn, I was hoping that'd be starred like my headless chicken thing
 
8:05 PM
@pxeger Dear companies: If you design your service such that I'm required to create an online account in order to use it at all, please re-evaluate your life choices.
2
 
Hoi
 
Ooh, people are starting to use "The devs spent time on confetti" as a justification for minor :D
4
 
@Neil Dear companies: if you design your service such that I'm required to be a sentient being in order to use it, please re-evaluate your life choices
 
Dear companies: please re-evaluate your life choices
 
Dear companies: please re-evaluate your life choices.
 
8:06 PM
Dear companies: Please re-evaluate your life choices.
 
I wanna default dance on someone
 
Dear companies: Please re-evaluate your life choices.
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing wtf, three of them?
 
8:07 PM
nearly identical
okay no star spamming
 
Okay, who's starring all of that?
 
Stop with the star spam
8
 
@user I've been meaning to ask for a while - Why did you change your name to Original Original Original VI?
 
That's their IRL name
 
^
 
8:08 PM
Sure.
 
May 15 at 22:57, by user
@Ausername Actually, that's my real name (I was named "Original Original Original VI" when I was born, but I changed my name yesterday)
This has come up before ^
 
but no-one uses Python but me and HN, and HN memes on me
 
a lot of people use Python on CGCC
i am around mediocre level at python golfing
 
@StackMeter HN memes on you?
 
@StackMeter xnor would like a word
 
8:09 PM
I have used pyton once
@StackMeter ovs and Noodle9?
 
@StackMeter dingledooper
Wasif
 
xnor, Lynn, ovs, Noodle, dingledooper, Jonathan Allan, Wasif, HN, me (from time to time), Xcoder (not that active)
 
@user yes
 
Vyxal: Me, Lyxal, Wasif, Underslash, Aaron Miller.
+ everyone who just wanted the bounty.
 
HN snipes me like they went to military training
just scores under all the good questions
 
8:12 PM
@Ausername Context. It was just a dumb joke that I dragged too far
 
Oh wow
 
@Ausername add me onto that list
 
Oh true
 
literally searched for the easiest challs, and did them
 
I'm grinding through in Vyxal right now.
 
8:14 PM
The top 10 Python golfers on the site, in terms of # of answers are: xnor, ovs, TFeld, Dennis, Chas Brown, Jonathan Allan, Sp3000, hyper-neutrino, Rod, mbomb007. Some honourable mentions (11-15): Lynn, Noodle9, Keith Randall, Mr. Xcoder and totallyhuman
 
ok
where am I on that list
 
xnor has 1042 Python answers, ovs (#2) has 555
 
@hyper-neutrino #string
 
@hyper-neutrino It's the norm to use "string", but 'string' can work too, and can be a good workaround to restricted source.
 
In JS, you could do (function(){/*string*/}).toString().substring(a,b) probably
 
8:18 PM
why is there a 9 and a 7 star message about yaoi? What occured here?
 
I'm second for Vyxal.
 
@StackMeter You can click the "3h ago" and it takes you to the transcript :P
 
@StackMeter Don't ask.
 
ok
I still don't know what place I'm in for Python
 
I don't get what the context is with this discussion 'vs" but in some languages 'string' and "string" actually means something different - e.g. one is character array and latter is actual string type. So it might depend on situasion which one to use.
 
8:19 PM
@StackMeter Gimme a second, my query's running
 
”string»
 
@Ausername that's a sin
 
@StackMeter More specifically, it's Jelly
 
@Ausername invalid
your quotation is facing the wrong way
 
8:21 PM
more of a sin than JS, and we all know that's Satan's father
 
@StackMeter Why do you insult Satan so?
 
When I put the quotation the right way it's *AS lithic!
 
@user because he couldn't compare to JS
If I go to hell, it's just all gonna be JS
and broken JS as that
 
Hi @AncientSwordRage! I don't mean to bother you, but do you feel ready to post your matrix decompression challenge?
@StackMeter It's alright, if every religious book in the world is correct, everyone's going to hell :P
 
Don't you have to die first? In which case I think I'm fine.
 
8:23 PM
@StackMeter JS is purgatory, hell is made of PHP
 
JS is fine.
 
@elementiro no, hell is SQL
 
@StackMeter True
Wait no BF.
 
@StackMeter You have 24 Python answers, which is joint 116th with 7 other users
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing :( 116th
gotta go reach top 100
 
8:25 PM
@hyper-neutrino Well, other people need to die to reach hell, but you're in Canada already and you're immortal, so...
 
@StackMeter Eh, kinda true. We could add Pascal to the list of terrible languages too.
 
@user >:-(
 
You have an average score of 1.42 per post (a net score of 34) and its been 95 days between your first and last Python answer
 
@hyper-neutrino Turn that emoticon upside down
 
@user )-:<
 
8:25 PM
)-:<
 
@hyper-neutrino >:-( is what I intended
 
It's still sad emoticon.
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing can you link the query? or rather i just want to know what my avg score is :p
 
Y'all can't even understand simple instructions such as "turn upside down" smh
 
@StackMeter That's 5 answers, and 37 upvotes away
 
8:26 PM
@elementiro That was the joke :P
 
)->><><><)<-(<>)>:<><>:>:->(_
 
also, is there a query that tells me of questions not answered in Python
 
[++<--]++<--.-+,[<,]++-
 
@hyper-neutrino Your average score for Python is 4.26, you have 253 answers with a total of 1078 score
 
and SECOND SILVER BADGE WOO LET'S ALL GO UPVOTE EACH OTHERS POSTS
 
8:27 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing Could you check what my score is? (obviously, it's going to be low, but I'd still like to see)
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing oh nice lol. do you know what my avg/jelly is?
 
@user For what language?
 
Python
 
8:28 PM
@hyper-neutrino 3.43
 
@user no as I've not written out the algorithm for it
 
@user But nvm that, I didn't see the SEDE query before
 
Soon hopefully (weeks, not months)
 
6-8 weeks? :P
 
Sounds good
 
8:29 PM
i wonder what my best language by average score is (that i've used more than like once or twice). probably python tbh
 
mine is 1.4 :( gotta get that up
 
I'm 13th for the MATLAB. Nice.
 
@hyper-neutrino hopefully fewer than SE take on most things
 
@user For Python, you have 7 posts, with 18 score for an average of 2.57
Here;s a fork that takes a language name and user id and limits it to just that user
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing oh come on - how does user have a higher average than me with 7 answers
 
8:31 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing Nice, thanks!
 
@StackMeter either better consistency/quality, or luck, lol
the top average scorer for jelly has only one answer in jelly, because it got +53, and that is therefore their whole average. if you have very few answers, any outliers are basically just the whole statistic
 
I only post Python answers when I think they'll turn out okay (which is almost never) :P
 
@hyper-neutrino it's probably luck, or at least that's what I tell myself to stop me crying
 
also, if you want to get score/rep, you should post challenges, or wait for new challenges and answer them
 
I have the most Scala answers on CGCC, but my average score is abysmal (1.85) :(
 
8:33 PM
Damn, I have more Python answers than I thought. 23, total score 85 for an average of 3.7
 
actually let me go check if there are any more problems with my challenge and then post it
 
i'd rather not disclose the specifics about (what I know about) gaming the system to get more rep for less effort (though it's not very hard to figure out) because I don't want to promote it
 
FGITW is the easiest way to game the system tbh
 
Easiest way to game the system is posting high quality answers and challenges
 
actually tbh there isn't even really a secret to it. just FGITW and HNQ effect, lol. anything else is... a bit arbitarary and down to luck, TBH
 
8:34 PM
Is that really "gaming" the system? :P
 
Please subscribe for more useless tips
 
that requires effort tho :p for max rep / min effort FGITW and HNQ is definitely way easier
 
@hyper-neutrino One slightly lesser-known trick is that it's better to post an invalid answer, delete it and edit+undelete than to take your time and post later on
(better = more likely to get rep)
 
Meh, reputation is cool and gives the dopamine but IMHO it's more about actual fun of solving challanges and golfing.
 
8:36 PM
^ And if you want dopamine, you can just do drugs /s
 
@elementiro i 100% agree with this, and it's a bit hypocritical (or whatever the other term was) for someone like me to say this but focusing on rep detracts from the whole point in participating here anyway; it's a byproduct of the actual fun part of codegolf and CGCC
 
But its fun to talk about ways to "game" the system :P
 
We're all about games
 
@elementiro ik but I have to get to 1000 at least so I can call myself relevant for having a K
 
@hyper-neutrino I often get a bit wary of an "ivory tower" effect by turning around to lower-rep users and saying "Oh well, you shouldn't really care about the rep, just have fun"
 
8:37 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing oh. yeah, I suppose you could do that too. that's... probably something I'd contact users over if I notice them intentionally doing it
 
@hyper-neutrino I've done that before, where I've posted an answer I think works, it turns out not to, I delete it, fix and then undelete it
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing ah yes that's the term. yeah, I think as long as one isn't sacrificing quality or fun entirely for rep and still looks to participate for the sake of enjoyment, wanting more rep is totally normal because a) internet points go brrrrr and b) SE's whole privilege system is based around it
 
Oh wait, I just realized that my average score for Python answers is much lower. My Compose a Song question just happened to contain ## Python, 0 bytes
 
I discourage people from posting a "placeholder"/completely invalid answer, then working on it
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing yeah. I've definitely done that a couple times too, especially with the really tricky ones where i post like a 200+ byte python program and later have to fix it
 
@hyper-neutrino Codidact's privilege system is nicer in that respect
 
trying to get advice at a time where most of you are around
 
I'm ~250 Jelly answers away from catching Erik :(
 
sad
 
@StackMeter So when factoring the exponents, we can either do p1^x1 * p2 ^ x2 * p3^x3... or p1 * p2 * p3 ...?
And if we choose the later, do we repeat the process on the exponents' factors' exponents too?
 
8:44 PM
@user the former - as stated, you must use the fewest numbers, and the only edge case was specified clearly.
 
This is unrelated to the conversation, but I'm going to pin a message about not discussing users' suspensions since that's been happening a lot
Quick reminder: Discussing users' suspensions (or speculating about their behavior or potential sockpuppets) is not allowed. If you believe a user might be a sockpuppet, use mod flags on one of their posts (or your own). Feel free to ping a mod or RO if you have a more general question about this rule.
7
 
I still don't really understand the challenge, but that's probably because of me, not the challenge itself :P
@RedwolfPrograms How long will this have to be kept up? (also, do you want to bold the entire message?)
 
I'll leave it there for a little while, at least until something more important needs to be pinned.
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing known issue since like forever
 
8:48 PM
Interestingly, it it timed out when I tried to star it, but I have now starred and pinned it :P
 
It's not a super obvious rule, and at least one RO (me :p) has accidentally broken it, so it's probably a good idea to leave it somewhere nice and visible for a while
 
@user also yes
just clarifying everything here before I post it
 
@RedwolfPrograms One note about this: we (the ROs/mods) will try to nip such conversations in the bud. If it does escalate, and our warning are ignored, we will not hesitate to place the room in timeout and/or kick the offending users. This has already happened a couple of times, I'm just making it "written" policy
@StackMeter I'll let someone else FGITW the Jelly answer, I've repcapped today :p
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing repcapping - is this some sort of inside joke that I'm too dumb to understand?
 
There's a reputation cap of 200/day
 
8:53 PM
You can get a maximum of 200 reputation a day (barring bounties/accepts). I've already hit that limit, so any new upvotes on my posts go to "waste"
 
Is it just me, or did TNB use to pile stars on everything? Looking at the starred messages here, many have upwards of 10 stars on them
 
There were just more people then
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing no I was making a meme
 
:(
 
We still pile stars on, there are just fewer people starring
 
8:55 PM
@user TNB used to have ~30 users in the room as a minimum. We now have between 10 and 20 users typically
 
For some reason, that makes me feel sad
 
TNB used to be the most active room on the network, having ~50 users in here wasn't unheard of
 
eh
don't mind
SO is overrated anyway
 
Well this isn't SO
And SO's underrated on places like Reddit
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing However, the most number of users I've ever "seen" in a room was ~1.2k in Mos Eisley
 
8:58 PM
mos eisley is apparently particularly infamous. didn't Shog himself freeze the room?
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing qué
 
@hyper-neutrino Shog nuked the room and close to perma-banned a couple of high-rep users
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing How did SE chat even handle those many users?
 

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