The Reading Room

verbose

04:34

@Tsundoku fine, I added stuff. Happy now? 😛

verbose

07:27

This is a good answer. I wonder why @PeterShor deleted it.

Rand al'Thor

07:52

@Tsundoku Yep, I declared two "winners" in view count to the Fontane topic challenge, since I didn't check the views on the latest HNQ exactly at UTC midnight.

@bobble and I ended up with 5 questions each in that challenge.

There's still a tie between Gargantua & Pantagruel and the Mahabharata for the next topic challenge. If anyone has a tie-breaking vote, now's a good time to cast it.

Rand al'Thor

08:17

Also, I'm a bit busy to post the new topic challenge announcement today ... @Tsundoku wanna do the honours?

verbose

> Interestingly, nobody seems to think that Our American Cousin is cursed, even though the leader of the free world [Lincoln] was shot during a performance of it. Instead, Macbeth, which has killed zero Presidents to date, gets a bad rap.

Ha

Bookworm

09:26

0

Q: The most cited English grammar book

I know OED is the most cited vocabulary book, then what is the most cited grammar book? I think it’s The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language. I made this question because I have to cite the grammar book...

physical-books

Rand al'Thor

@verbose That strikes me as a rather US-centric viewpoint.

verbose

@Randal'Thor Do we have evidence that Macbeth has killed heads of state in other countries? Aside from Duncan, that is.

@Bookworm is this on-topic?

Rand al'Thor

09:41

@verbose Meta says dictionaries aren't.

verbose

So what you're urging me to do is VTC as OT

fine, twist my arm

Rand al'Thor

I'd close it if I had time right now to craft a nice comment explaining to the OP.

@verbose Here's a list, we can check how many of them died in theatres :-P

verbose

09:56

@Randal'Thor haha

@Randal'Thor I did VTC and leave a comment, so if you think that's adequate, go ahead and close I guess?

Tsundoku

10:40

@Bookworm This question is now cruising the Boulevard HNQ.

@verbose I'd migrate this to ELU rather than ELL. But funny that the OED is described as a "vocabulary book" though.

verbose

@Tsundoku ELU is very quick on the trigger finger for closing questions. I fear OP will just get frustrated if they close it too.

Tsundoku

@verbose You know why Shakespeare's tragedies end after the fifth act, don't you? Otherwise, the first row of spectators would also perish. :-P

verbose

@Tsundoku ah

Tsundoku

11:22

@Randal'Thor I'm editing it as we speak.

Librarian

11:37

0

Q: Announcing the April–May 2021 topic challenge: Gargantua and Pantagruel

In accordance with our meta agreement to have topic challenges and a later meta agreement to have topic challenges lasting for two months and overlapping by one month, it is time to announce the April–May 2021 topic challenge. Based on the number of votes (+4), the fourth topic challenge of the y...

discussion topic-challenge

Tsundoku

11:49

Ongoing topic challenges: The Lusiads and Mem û Zîn (Mem and Zin).

2

Bookworm

13:34

0

Q: Meaning of "He would not use the children against her, he would not. If he mentioned them, if he spoke their names, she would splinter"

This context is from The children's bach by Helen Garner ‘How did you know where to find me?’ ‘Morty told me.’ He was thinner. He stood without baggage in the ugly lobby. ‘Come home.’ ‘No. I haven’t finished yet.’ ‘Come home.’ ‘I can’t.’ ‘Let’s go home.’ ‘I’ll never forgive you if you make me.’ ...

meaning the-childrens-bach helen-garner

verbose

13:49

@Randal'Thor I thoroughly revised and expanded my answer to your question about the Scottish play

I no longer believe in the 1920s date and now think it's the 1970s.

> Double, double, toil and trouble
Fire, burn, and chewing-gum, bubble

Tsundoku

14:08

@Bookworm So now this grammar book question got closed instead of migrated. Which is why we need the close reason suggested by Rand al'Thor.

Rand al'Thor

14:24

@Tsundoku Writing a meta post for that close reason is on my to-do list. I'm also planning to make a meta post to customise our existing close reason now that the new question close system allows different pieces of text to be shown to different users. And before doing that I'm testing that process on SFF where there's a bigger meta community and more people to catch any potential hiccups in the process or things I'm doing wrong.

Also, that particular question about grammar books wouldn't fall under the proposed close reason.

@verbose I saw that you edited, but need some time to read the new version :-)

verbose

@Randal'Thor No rush :-P the answer isn't going anywhere

Rather than This question is purely about the meaning of an English word or phrase, and literary context does not help to answer it I think perhaps This question is purely about the ordinary meaning of an English word or phrase, and literary context is not required to answer it might be more precise?

Tsundoku

14:42

Or "This question is about a purely linguistic matter and literary context does not help to answer it". This would also cover grammar instead of just vocabulary, and languages other than English.

verbose

@Tsundoku That is a good point, it's wider than just vocabulary. However, I think "literary context does not help" is misleading. Context always helps. The question is whether a literary context is necessary to interpret the meaning.

Tsundoku

OK, then "This question is about a purely linguistic matter and literary context is not required to answer it" (combining your suggestion with mine) would be a bit better?

Rand al'Thor

Or how about "This question is purely about the ordinary meaning of a word or phrase, and literary context is not required to answer it"? It removes the language-specific thing but keeps the emphasis on meaning.

"Linguistic" might be a word people'd tend to associate with higher study of language rather than basic dictionary-lookup questions.

verbose

@Randal'Thor I like this

Rand al'Thor

Ooh, maybe "This question is purely about the ordinary usage of language, and literary context is not required to answer it" ?

verbose

14:58

@Randal'Thor I like the previous one better but can't articulate why ... I'll've to think about it a bit and maybe I'll change my mind

Tsundoku

@Randal'Thor That doesn't capture grammatical questions.

Maybe "This question is about vocabulary or grammar, and literary context is not required to answer it" I'd avoid "ordinary", since the usage may not be ordinary and the question may still be perfectly answerable without literary context.

Rand al'Thor

If the usage is not ordinary, mightn't it then be on-topic here?

I.e. if the OP can't figure out the meaning just from a dictionary or from being fully fluent in English.

bobble

You can always come up with, say, a top 3 and post them as answers to a meta question to allow for voting

Bookworm

15:13

0

Q: What literary device is used in from "one thing to another"

The extract is Then, from one thing to another, M. Hamel went on to talk of the French language, saying that it was the most beautifullanguage in the world — the clearest, the most logical; that we must guard it among us and never forget it, because when a people are enslaved, as long as they h...

french-literature literary-device

Rand al'Thor

@bobble I'd like to leave room for a "no, we don't need such a close reason" answer too, to be voted on if people actually don't want it, so it's better not to drown that out with multiple "yes we do, and let's phrase it like this" answers.

b_jonas

15:37

@Randal'Thor You inspired a short post. math.stackexchange.com/a/4044556/24908

I'm confused by why math.stackexchange.com/a/104120/24908 is trying to prove log 2 to be irrational instead, since that's more difficult.

Tsundoku

16:20

@verbose The issue I see with both the existing answers and the deleted answer is that none of them gives an example of a series even though that is what the question is about.

Rand al'Thor

@Tsundoku I would argue that's an overly pedantic reading of the question, and it's unlikely that the OP only wanted to know about series consisting of multiple books rather than about the origin of using wands for magic in fantasy stories.

Or, to match pedantry with pedantry, isn't the Bible a series? :-)

bobble

16:43

How much pedantry is too much pedantry?

Tsundoku

@Randal'Thor Literally what the question says: "I can't really think of any other series that used them.".

Of course, only other people's comments can ever be pedantic.

> The term, then, is obviously a relative one: my pedantry is your scholarship, his reasonable accuracy, her irreducible minimum of education and someone else’s ignorance.
(H. W. Fowler, Modern English Usage)

Rand al'Thor

@Tsundoku Not in my case: I'm a proud self-confessed pedant :-)

Bookworm

3

Q: Do we have any solid evidence for how much material Middleton contributed to Macbeth?

In verbose's question How close to actual incantations are the witches' spells in Macbeth? he says It is worth mentioning that the latter [the witches' incantation from Act IV scene i] was likely written not by Shakespeare, but his collaborator Thomas Middleton, who is known to have recycled son...

william-shakespeare macbeth thomas-middleton

Rand al'Thor

@Tsundoku Oh, like what they call "irregular verbs".

Tsundoku

@Randal'Thor ?

Rand al'Thor

16:54

"I'm making a terminological inexactitude, you're being economical with the truth, he's lying through his teeth."

@Bookworm Great question and a very fast three upvotes.

Tsundoku

@Randal'Thor I think you would enjoy Keith Frankish's dyspeptic definitions.

Here's one that @bobble and @PrinceNorthLæraðr may enjoy: SATs (n.pl.) Tests given to children to ensure that their teachers have learned their lessons.

> school (n.) A place where children are kept until they are old enough to learn something.

> university (n.) A place where young adults go to avoid learning something.

bobble

> classic (n.) A book written by a white man centuries ago which children are forced to find meaning in

Tsundoku

Speaking of classics: Is an Aboriginal tale of an ancient volcano the oldest story ever told?. Science, February 2020.

Oh, a Twitter thread where people posted walls of books. (Or rather pictures of them, since we're being pedantic today.)

Rand al'Thor

> enthymeme (n.) A harmless omission in one’s own reasoning. Contrast fallacy.
> fallacy (n.) A fatal flaw in an opponent’s reasoning. Contrast enthymeme.

Tsundoku

Yes, that's a nice combination :-)

Rand al'Thor

17:09

> pension (n.) The means to enjoy life, usually obtained only when the ability to enjoy life is rapidly waning.

Ouch.

Tsundoku

@Randal'Thor You can actually fight with a sheathed sword, but it's not very effective :-P

verbose

21:24

@bobble no such thing

bobble

how verbose is too verbose?

Napoleon Wilson

21:42

@Tsundoku The distinction is kind of important, since you could as well have meant metaphorical walls of books akin to walls of texts, something people occasionally do on Twitter despite its complete and utter unfitness for any post longer than 10 words.

verbose

22:49

@bobble I feel so seen

Also, just yesterday, I was thinking about this question that you edited today. It's been on my to-answer list for a while. But I can't think of a good way to write that answer, which is that "the author doesn't really care about consistency or coherent character development, it's just a bad novel."

The only reason I still have a copy is that I haven't made my trip to the used bookstore to get rid of all my discards from my last cull of my books. My apartment is far too big for one person but I still have not enough room for my books. The wall of books pics @Tsundoku linked to really got me envious.....

My father-in-law had a study with bookshelves lining all the walls and a few just sticking out in the middle of the room. He ran out of shelf space too.

bobble

I have very strong memories of each time the kiddies' bedroom was reorganized because the bookshelf was moved each time

While I never stayed up late reading, I would read if I woke up before my parents

Tsundoku

23:04

@Bookworm OK, I have answered the Middleton/Macbeth question. Can we now also have answers by verbose, Gareth Rees and Matt Thrower? ;-)

I missed this two years ago: Original copy of Macbeth owned by Charlton Heston to sell at Bonhams. This was the first quarto edition of Macbeth, printed in 1673 and very rare.

More about the Scottish play: The Narrators in 'Macbeth': text of a lecture by Barbara Hardy.

Napoleon Wilson

And you wanted to buy it?

Tsundoku

@NapoleonWilson Anachronistically?

Napoleon Wilson

23:23

In which way?

Tsundoku

Wanting to buy it after reading that the auction was more than a year ago.

Napoleon Wilson

Oh, I thought you missed the auction itself.

Afterall, the article says "to sell" so I thought it wasn't completed yet.

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